Are YA books too dark?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This may have been discussed over the weekend, but I was off boards and missed any threads. Evidently the piece has caused quite a stir.

 

Darkness Too Visible

 

I loved the line at the end of the article to the effect that booksellers exist to sell books , but that parents exist to parent kids and shouldn't accept the book industry having a veto over their parenting guidance.

[SquirrellyMama]

Are YA books too dark. I would say yes. I'm often amazed at the books I find in the YA section of the library.

[*Lulu*]

I find most of the YA books I have read to be so sensational and so poorly written that I wonder if I misunderstood the YA label. Perhaps it is YA for the writing level of the author and not for the content of the book. (My apologies to the youth that can actually write!) Even worse are the ones that seem to be written totally for shock value. (BTW- I can handle a little darkness, if well written, and admit that semi-well written twaddle can be more entertaining than most television shows.)

 

I am only a year or so away from these decisions, and have already determined to steer my oldest right past the YA stacks and into some good reading beyond. Yes, it will require extra guidance, and I am aware that my teens will sometimes read things I wish they hadn't. (My mother would have had a duck if she'd known half of what I read as a teen!) Still I'd rather have adult themes as part of a well written, thought provoking work than adult themes treated in a sensationalized fashion in writing so poorly done that you actually kill brain cells while reading. The teen years are as good a time as any to learn that not everything published is of good quality or worth reading.

[Mrs Mungo]

When I was a teen Stephen King and VC Andrews were popular. The original Grimm's fairy tales are dark and scary. It may be dark, but that isn't a new thing, imo.

 

Also, claiming that censorship is only good parenting is a red herring. Not removing an item from the shelves doesn't mean your child is now required to read it. Again, there was a big fight on this forum because some people felt quotes from literature in HOAW were inappropriate for ninth graders. My ninth grader read it this past year, along with Gilgamesh, The Iliad and other books I am sure some find inappropriate. It isn't the job of librarians or publishing houses to parent your child the way you would prefer. That is up to *you* (general you, not you the OP :) ).

[Heather in Neverland]

Are YA books too dark. I would say yes. I'm often amazed at the books I find in the YA section of the library.

 

:iagree:

[*Lulu*]

When I was a teen Stephen King and VC Andrews were popular. The original Grimm's fairy tales are dark and scary. It may be dark, but that isn't a new thing, imo.

 

Also, claiming that censorship is only good parenting is a red herring. Not removing an item from the shelves doesn't mean your child is now required to read it. Again, there was a big fight on this forum because some people felt quotes from literature in HOAW were inappropriate for ninth graders. My ninth grader read it this past year, along with Gilgamesh, The Iliad and other books I am sure some find inappropriate. It isn't the job of librarians or publishing houses to parent your child the way you would prefer. That is up to *you* (general you, not you the OP :) ).

 

Absolutely!

[Teachin'Mine]

Edited because apparently I was the only one. lol

Edited June 10, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[Jeannie in NJ]

my dd was in public school for 9th grade (is now back homeschooling). She was given a list of books that she had to choose 2 to read. They were all so depressing, no classics included at all. She chose Twilight and The Face on the Milk Carton as these seemed to be the least depressing on the list.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When I was a teen Stephen King and VC Andrews were popular. The original Grimm's fairy tales are dark and scary. It may be dark, but that isn't a new thing, imo.

 

Also, claiming that censorship is only good parenting is a red herring. Not removing an item from the shelves doesn't mean your child is now required to read it. Again, there was a big fight on this forum because some people felt quotes from literature in HOAW were inappropriate for ninth graders. My ninth grader read it this past year, along with Gilgamesh, The Iliad and other books I am sure some find inappropriate. It isn't the job of librarians or publishing houses to parent your child the way you would prefer. That is up to *you* (general you, not you the OP :) ).

 

But it shouldn't be acceptable to label parents who steer their kids away from certain books as censoring them.

 

Nor do I think that Andrews or King were writing toward or marketing to young teens.

 

Sorry, had to switch computers.

 

One thing that I think is interesting reading the comments and some of the articles in response to the one I linked to is that any critique of YA books for their quality or content is seen as an attempt at banning it. I think many of the books marketed at children are poorly written. I think many of them dwell on overly graphic depictions of dark themes. Do I think that there ought to be laws about the content of YA books. Nope. Do I think that publishers should make an effort to encourage quality writing or even just exert their editiorial functions and tell authors that a story can be told about a subject without making it soft c0re p0rn. Yes. Do I think that librarians and teachers should be more discerning when buying for their collections or making reading lists. Yes.

 

The other thing that I find interesting is that these books are justified as depicting what is "real". That is the magic card that is supposed to make us overlook any faults in them. Yet many from the same circles are the first in line to denigrate historical figures who were people of their time but seem to our modern eyes to have overwhelming faults (thinking for example of founding fathers who are no longer profiled in history books because they were slave owners). And there are many in the book trade (including librarians and teachers) who will exclude a book from consideration because it uses terms that were common when the book was written but are beyond the pale in polite conversation now.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)
ipod died

[Jenny in Atl]

 

Nor do I think that Andrews or King were writing toward or marketing to young teens.

 

They sure were when I worked for B Dalton (1983-1994).

I tend to think this is all a bunch of hot air, given the sad statistics about how few teens actually read books; I should add adults as well. The bk business is dying a slow painful death. Most of what is published (from babies to adults) is fluffy mind candy, whether dark or not. Many of the titles on the bestseller lists, are the same stuff over and over. Every generation says that the current music, movies, bks, and media are all more evil/dark/not as good as what once was... So, don't buy it. Who cares if someone labels you. Why does everyone need to look to others to feel good about their parenting choices?

[LibraryLover]

:001_smile:Which reminds me of the old ABC after-school specials. Ah, the good old days when nobody cared if kids of a certain age liked to wallow in a little teen angst. Luke and Laura and rape at the disco. Mr Rochester's wife trying to set the new girl on fire. Cromus eating all the babies. Beserkers. Gosh the old stores were so uplifting. lol :D

 

Let me see...

 

Stephen King

CV Andrews

Orson Wells

The Bible-- Lot and his drunk daughters (certainly for the greater good, I'm not sayin' lol)

Edited June 13, 2011 by LibraryLover

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

When I was a teen Stephen King and VC Andrews were popular. The original Grimm's fairy tales are dark and scary. It may be dark, but that isn't a new thing, imo.

 

Also, claiming that censorship is only good parenting is a red herring. Not removing an item from the shelves doesn't mean your child is now required to read it. Again, there was a big fight on this forum because some people felt quotes from literature in HOAW were inappropriate for ninth graders. My ninth grader read it this past year, along with Gilgamesh, The Iliad and other books I am sure some find inappropriate. It isn't the job of librarians or publishing houses to parent your child the way you would prefer. That is up to *you* (general you, not you the OP :) ).

 

But it shouldn't be acceptable to label parents who steer their kids away from certain books as censoring them.

 

Nor do I think that Andrews or King were writing toward or marketing to young teens.

 

I have to agree that despite the popularity of Andrew and King (and I read both back in the day) they weren't deliberately marketed to teens.

 

Something has changed in the YA fiction I've seen recently-perhaps it isn't just the topics they are writing about but it is the combination of the language and the way serious issues and flaws are normalized. The way that so many of the books seem to carry the message that what was once a character flaw or poor choice is now validated and made acceptable.

 

I do wonder if this is linked to the "darkness" being marketed to children in the form of video games and movies as well.

 

I'm not a huge advocate of censorship on an institutional level. Many popular books should be on library shelves even if I won't let my kids take them home. I also don't have a problem with Politics and Prose creating a PG-15 shelf--that may just be a move to help parents identify books they want their kids to avoid or help them find what all the teens are reading today. Censorship on an institutional level isn't necessarily good parenting but guiding your own children's reading choices is good parenting-even if it means saying no sometimes. (Or sometimes saying not yet.)

 

I'm sure my kids will read things that I find questionable and will read materials others find objectionable. While they are doing this I hope to be exercising the judgement to guide them to reading these books at a time appropriate to their own level of maturity and to help them deal with the issues they come across. That holds true whether it is Shakespeare or Suzanne Collins in hand.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

To acknowledge that bad things happen, even to obliquely depict them is a far distance from some of the loving depictions or subtle encouraging the WSJ author was referencing.

 

Or to put it another way, Dracula and Twilight or Interview with a Vampire are both dark, but there is a huge difference between depicting a dark figure and casting him as the hero.

[Heather in Neverland]

Do I think that librarians and teachers should be more discerning when buying for their collections or making reading lists. Yes.

 

.

 

We had some big conversations at my school with the English dept and library policy. We are a conservative christian school but we are also careful to not be legalistic. It started with kids requesting that we carry "Twilight" and the conversation got rolling from there.

 

Our policy ended up being that we will not assign books in our classes or carry books in our library that GLORIFY immoral, unhealthy or unbiblical behavior.

 

The key word ended up being GLORIFY. There are lots of good books that have "sensitive" topics in them. But it is the ones that make these things seem "good" or "cool" or "right" that are not on our shelves. So a book does not get pulled from our library simply because it has swear words in it or references to alcohol or sex. It is HOW those things are used in the book that determines its future at our school.

 

Now, this is a private school so we get to make our own rules. But a public library is a different story. As is a bookstore. And frankly, bookstores only carry these books because they SELL so really, who is to blame here?

[LibraryLover]

VC Andrews and King were most certainly marketed to teens. lol

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm reading a YA book right now and it had quite a descriptive s*xual scene, and it took me by surprise because I didn't expect in a YA book. The scene involved a 15 yr old girl and a 28 yr old man. :001_huh: It set off my ick factor.

 

Now, as a young teen, I remember reading my mom's steamy romance novels on the sly. So, teens are interested in adult topics, however, I was still surprised to see such a scene in an actual YA book.

 

I read VC Andrews as a teen. I don't remember, are there s*xual scenes?

[Lady Florida.]

I'm more concerned with the poor quality of writing than whether or not the books are dark. I do think they're darker (or at least more graphic) than they once were, but many YA books are also poorly written.

[Cindyg]

I read VC Andrews as a teen. I don't remember, are there s*xual scenes?

 

Goodness, yes! I still remember Cathy (sister) and Chris (brother) having sex when they turned teenagers living locked in the attic. It's probably been 25 years since I read that, and I still remember their names. The details may not have been as graphic as today's steamy novels, but it was my first glimpse of incest. Beyond that, the author made you WANT them to get together. You were totally sympathic to their needing each other.

 

My son has outgrown children's books, and he's basically given up reading. Why? It's too hard for him to find any age appropriate, interesting books. Sure, I know they're out there. But it's a lot of work to find one that will interest a teen that doesn't have sex or vampires. :(

[Mom-ninja.]

Goodness, yes! I still remember Cathy (sister) and Chris (brother) having sex when they turned teenagers living locked in the attic. It's probably been 25 years since I read that, and I still remember their names. The details may not have been as graphic as today's steamy novels, but it was my first glimpse of incest. Beyond that, the author made you WANT them to get together. You were totally sympathic to their needing each other.

 

My son has outgrown children's books, and he's basically given up reading. Why? It's too hard for him to find any age appropriate, interesting books. Sure, I know they're out there. But it's a lot of work to find one that will interest a teen that doesn't have sex or vampires. :(

 

I must have blocked that from my memory! ;) Now that I'm a mom I know my shock meter is much more sensitive.

[lauracolumbus]

I'm appalled by what passes as literature with teens. Yes, when I was younger there was some questionable stuff out there, but it wasn't being pushed by all my teachers, librarians, bookstore owners, and every media available to mankind. It's very difficult to escape this assault on our young kids' minds.

 

And while classics may have violent/sexual scenes, it is nothing compared to the majority of teen lit, which has graphic details of acts that would give a homicide detective nightmares.

 

I am the gatekeeper for my children (and am thankful for the opportunity to assert that role), yet, I worry about all those kids out there whose minds are constantly being assaulted with ugliness. My niece, who is a fan of YA literature, became a cutter. While I have no proof that there was a causal effect from the literature which she was reading, I often wonder if the tendency to normalize this behaviour leads to copycatting the ugliness within the pages.

 

It's ok to bemoan the fact that our young girls are inundated with images of anorexic models and worry about the effects on their mental health and physical well being. but for some reason this type of literature is protected because it's assumed to have no impact on teens and pre-teens. And despite the gloomy reports that no one is reading, I know plenty of kids who are reading this material.

 

And if we can appreciate the effects of the uplifting nature of good writing material, can't we criticize and try to limit the downspewing nature of the horrific material that many kids are reading.

 

 

 

Laura

[mooooom]

but this is my favorite quote from it

 

"I also took an entire class in high school were we read books about killing your family, double suicide, drowning, being murdered in your bed ... it was called "Shakespeare," I believe."

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/06/06/137005354/seeing-teenagers-as-we-wish-they-were-the-debate-over-ya-fiction?sc=nl&cc=bn-20110609

[LibraryLover]

Can you give some titles, please? I will be happy to share with my local librarians. They are thoughtful librarians and have always been open to my input.If I could offer them some information (and read some of these popular books) I might be able to help them better answer questions teachers and parents might have. I comb the YA stacks with my youngest and I know we've missed some of what you're talking about.

 

Our library system is pretty excellent, so I personally have noticed better literature geared towards the YA. I know that 25 years ago anorexia and incest books were very much the rage.

 

I'm appalled by what passes as literature with teens. Yes, when I was younger there was some questionable stuff out there, but it wasn't being pushed by all my teachers, librarians, bookstore owners, and every media available to mankind. It's very difficult to escape this assault on our young kids' minds.

 

And while classics may have violent/sexual scenes, it is nothing compared to the majority of teen lit, which has graphic details of acts that would give a homicide detective nightmares.

 

I am the gatekeeper for my children (and am thankful for the opportunity to assert that role), yet, I worry about all those kids out there whose minds are constantly being assaulted with ugliness. My niece, who is a fan of YA literature, became a cutter. While I have no proof that there was a causal effect from the literature which she was reading, I often wonder if the tendency to normalize this behaviour leads to copycatting the ugliness within the pages.

 

It's ok to bemoan the fact that our young girls are inundated with images of anorexic models and worry about the effects on their mental health and physical well being. but for some reason this type of literature is protected because it's assumed to have no impact on teens and pre-teens. And despite the gloomy reports that no one is reading, I know plenty of kids who are reading this material.

 

And if we can appreciate the effects of the uplifting nature of good writing material, can't we criticize and try to limit the downspewing nature of the horrific material that many kids are reading.

 

 

 

Laura

Edited June 9, 2011 by LibraryLover

[twoforjoy]

but this is my favorite quote from it

 

"I also took an entire class in high school were we read books about killing your family, double suicide, drowning, being murdered in your bed ... it was called "Shakespeare," I believe."

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/06/06/137005354/seeing-teenagers-as-we-wish-they-were-the-debate-over-ya-fiction?sc=nl&cc=bn-20110609

 

I love this.

 

I also wonder what YA fic people are reading. The YA literature I've read as an adult is much better written, more serious, and less dark/exploitative than the stuff I read as a teen.

 

I've never encountered a YA novel that treated cutting, drug abuse, or EDs as non-problems. Yes, they are themes in some novels, but in all the ones I've read, they are seen as problems to be solved.

Edited June 9, 2011 by twoforjoy

[JVA]

Are YA books too dark. I would say yes. I'm often amazed at the books I find in the YA section of the library.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My recent pervue into the YA section for my ds got me to ask you all for suggestions. Thank you to many for your ideas. The stuff that is published now is garbage for the most part.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sebastian,

 

I agree that there are LOADS of poorly written books out there. Heck, my cousin is an editor for a small Christian publishing house, you should hear some of the stuff she has to read!

 

To acknowledge that bad things happen, even to obliquely depict them is a far distance from some of the loving depictions or subtle encouraging the WSJ author was referencing.

 

Or to put it another way, Dracula and Twilight or Interview with a Vampire are both dark, but there is a huge difference between depicting a dark figure and casting him as the hero.

 

I think Twilight is doing something different than what Dracula did. When I was in college I wrote a paper comparing Dracula to the old-style bodice-ripping romance novels. One of the books I used had the guy r*ping the woman (whose castle he had taken over) every night (she secretly liked it, but thought they should be married first) until he married her. Jonathan Harker falls asleep where he is not supposed to in Dracula's castle even though he's been warned against it. That's about not taking responsibility for your own s*xuality.

 

The Twilight girl (I haven't read them, sorry) is in love with a dangerous other worldly creature at a time when being manly or slightly dangerous or physical is a bad thing. He's a dangerous creature and is STILL girly, he glitters for crying out loud!

 

I also wonder what YA fic people are reading. The YA literature I've read as an adult is much better written, more serious, and less dark/exploitative than the stuff I read as a teen.

 

I've never encountered a YA novel that treated cutting, drug abuse, or EDs as non-problems. Yes, they are themes in some novels, but in all the ones I've read, they are seen as problems to be solved.

 

I agree, but I mostly read sci-fi and fantasy where YA fiction is concerned. Maybe that other stuff is more common in other sub-genres?

[twoforjoy]

I agree, but I mostly read sci-fi and fantasy where YA fiction is concerned. Maybe that other stuff is more common in other sub-genres?

 

I don't know. I generally read sci-fi and standalone novels when I read YA. I don't read series books (like The Clique or Gossip Girl or things like that) or paranormal romance (which seems to be a huge chunk of the YA market right now), so maybe things are different in those genres.

 

I think we need to acknowledge, along those lines, that the YA market is huge right now. It's certainly a lot bigger than it was when we were kids. I think a lot more really good YA stuff is being published today than was in the past, but I have no doubt that a lot more not-so-good stuff is being published, too, just because so much is being published overall.

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know. I generally read sci-fi and standalone novels when I read YA. I don't read series books (like The Clique or Gossip Girl or things like that) or paranormal romance (which seems to be a huge chunk of the YA market right now), so maybe things are different in those genres.

 

I think we need to acknowledge, along those lines, that the YA market is huge right now. It's certainly a lot bigger than it was when we were kids. I think a lot more really good YA stuff is being published today than was in the past, but I have no doubt that a lot more not-so-good stuff is being published, too, just because so much is being published overall.

 

:iagree:

[6packofun]

LOL Interesting observation about the writing level. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think the YA genre is still developing, but the article cited here is an example of why I think it needs to be a bit more focused by the publishing industry. The mom in the article is looking for a book for a *13 year old*!! Since when is a just-turned-teen almost an adult, which is what "young adult" conveys to me??

 

Young Adult fiction should be designated for a more distinct age group, IMO, so that people can make informed decisions. The industry doesn't *want* anyone to know that young adult should probably mean (IMO, again) 17-21 or so. They don't want parents to be informed consumers because then parents might not let their kids buy something out of their age group and possibly inappropriate. Another issue is that books with young adult themes have characters who ARE in their early teens sometimes. This is an issue with most age levels in books, however.

 

Do I think a lot of YA fiction is dark? Yes. But I think that true young adults should be able to handle darker material IF it is well written and has some redeeming qualities. There is less and less of both in publishing/writing in general, though.

 

I've got a lot more to say on the topic, but we don't have all week. LOL!!

[twoforjoy]

Do I think a lot of YA fiction is dark? Yes. But I think that true young adults should be able to handle darker material IF it is well written and has some redeeming qualities. There is less and less of both in publishing/writing in general, though.

 

See, I just totally disagree. I don't think there is less and less well-written literature with redeeming qualities; I think there are loads more of it. However, I also think that there are loads more poorly-written books with no redeeming qualities being published, too. The number of books published in general, and in the YA genre in particular, have just exploded in the last decade.

[Farrar]

Oh, that article ticked me off. I blogged about it a couple days ago. Ugh.

 

What bothered me most about the article was that it was, frankly, absurd. To imply you can't go to a local megabookstore and find not dark YA is silly. Or to toss Sherman Alexie into the same category as some of the other books she mentioned and then imply that censorship is acceptable... Well, let's just say... as far as I'm concerned the article was drivel.

 

I do think there is a legitimate discussion to be had about YA and darkness. Books have gone to some very dark places. I just didn't think that article raised any of them when it couldn't distinguish between award-winning, amazing writing and bad writing. The point made above about the amount of poor writing in the YA section (Twilight included) is a good one, for sure. Gah... I think I just have too much to say about this that I'm not going to fit here... Did people read Holly Black's response in Salon? I thought she made some good points.

[twoforjoy]

I do think there is a legitimate discussion to be had about YA and darkness. Books have gone to some very dark places. I just didn't think that article raised any of them when it couldn't distinguish between award-winning, amazing writing and bad writing. The point made above about the amount of poor writing in the YA section (Twilight included) is a good one, for sure. Gah... I think I just have too much to say about this that I'm not going to fit here... Did people read Holly Black's response in Salon? I thought she made some good points.

 

Yes. Even in just the last 2-3 years, the YA genre has changed in that very dark, often (but not always) poorly-written paranormal romances have become very marketable, thanks to Twilight. And, when something becomes big like that, you tend to see a lot of low-quality knock-offs, which is what I think we're seeing. I know that I'm a big fan of YA literature, but I find browsing the shelves a lot less interesting in the last year or two than I have in the past, just because of how much of it is now paranormal romance, which isn't a subgenre that interests me. And, I don't think it's a subgenre that is particularly appropriate for tweens and younger teens, although that's not to say that there isn't a lot of stuff published for YAs that is.

 

But, it's still just one subgenre of YA, and I really don't think it's fair to make assertions about the entire genre based on it, which is what seems to largely be happening.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It's ok to bemoan the fact that our young girls are inundated with images of anorexic models and worry about the effects on their mental health and physical well being. but for some reason this type of literature is protected because it's assumed to have no impact on teens and pre-teens. And despite the gloomy reports that no one is reading, I know plenty of kids who are reading this material.

 

And if we can appreciate the effects of the uplifting nature of good writing material, can't we criticize and try to limit the downspewing nature of the horrific material that many kids are reading.

 

 

 

Laura

 

I love the eating disorder comparison.

 

And I always have to raise an eyebrown when someone says that media has no effect on what people do. If that were true, why would companies pay millions a year on print and tv advertising?

 

I think that one issue is that it has become passe to appreciate what is lovely and beautiful and instead we laud what is lurid. It's not just in YA books, but it is certainly a factor in that industry.

 

Of course it is my responsibility to make our preferences known through what we buy and circulate at the library. What I found interesting is that an article that did not call for censorship or banning of books that the author thought were substandard was quickly the object of derision (not calling out posters here, but the blogosphere). I think it's sad when someone can no longer say that a category of books is not as good as it could be.

[Farrar]

I know that I'm a big fan of YA literature, but I find browsing the shelves a lot less interesting in the last year or two than I have in the past, just because of how much of it is now paranormal romance, which isn't a subgenre that interests me.

 

I find browsing the shelves *everywhere* a lot less interesting these days in the megabookstores. All the titles they're highlighting and stocking are much less interesting now than ten years ago to me.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

LOL Interesting observation about the writing level. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think the YA genre is still developing, but the article cited here is an example of why I think it needs to be a bit more focused by the publishing industry. The mom in the article is looking for a book for a *13 year old*!! Since when is a just-turned-teen almost an adult, which is what "young adult" conveys to me??

 

Young Adult fiction should be designated for a more distinct age group, IMO, so that people can make informed decisions. The industry doesn't *want* anyone to know that young adult should probably mean (IMO, again) 17-21 or so. They don't want parents to be informed consumers because then parents might not let their kids buy something out of their age group and possibly inappropriate. Another issue is that books with young adult themes have characters who ARE in their early teens sometimes. This is an issue with most age levels in books, however.

 

Do I think a lot of YA fiction is dark? Yes. But I think that true young adults should be able to handle darker material IF it is well written and has some redeeming qualities. There is less and less of both in publishing/writing in general, though.

 

I've got a lot more to say on the topic, but we don't have all week. LOL!!

 

Well, I think this goes to the way that many things are marketed down to younger children than you would expect. Are there really 17 year olds who read Seventeen magazine? I remember that being something to read in middle school. I would say that 17 year olds are reading Vogue or Elle or Cosmo (I'm probably dating myself with at least one title.)

 

Similarly you have movies like Transformers that are being marketed to pretty young kids. Even though there is rather racy content.

 

Personally I think much of the content is cheap. It's easier to write a graphic description of an act (plus you get that cool "edgy" label) than to imply what is happening. It's easier to throw a s3x scene into a movie than to imply romance.

[WishboneDawn]

When I was a teen Stephen King and VC Andrews were popular. The original Grimm's fairy tales are dark and scary. It may be dark, but that isn't a new thing, imo.

 

Tell me and the Grade 10 English teacher who had us read Wuthering Heights about it.:)

[Teachin'Mine]

I just tried to read through the article that's linked, and I couldn't. It's disgusting and disturbing what's in these books. Thankfully dd has no interest in this type of "literature", but it's made finding things to read very difficult.

[Hannah C.]

I believe YA books are called that because they are marketed towards teens, for whatever reason. I do wonder how many of those books are actually being bought and read by those older than teens - for example, I greatly enjoyed The Hunger Games, but I wasn't a teen anymore when I read them. ;) I really don't understand how exactly something comes to be YA vs adult, or even JF vs YA. Of course, the best books defy classification like that.

 

I think what often happens is that there is one book of a subject (e.g. Twilight, Harry Potter) which sells amazingly well, and then people start copying it.

 

Personally, I've been reading YA fiction recently, because I find dystopian fiction very interesting and the books I found happened to be YA. However, I'm also very good at overlooking books when I so choose. :D I think there's a lot of twaddle in the YA sections, and I thought this as a teen too.

[Cricket]

To acknowledge that bad things happen, even to obliquely depict them is a far distance from some of the loving depictions or subtle encouraging the WSJ author was referencing.

 

Or to put it another way, Dracula and Twilight or Interview with a Vampire are both dark, but there is a huge difference between depicting a dark figure and casting him as the hero.

 

:iagree: My kids don't read anything like this. It is all I can do to get my 13 yo to read his assigned reading, quite frankly! I haven't read any but I came across a few when I started searching for books to go with our study of the states. I finally went with picture books because the chapter books at the library were so awful. Seriously, is every father a violent drunk? My concerns with some of these books: Do the main characters in these books overcome the horrors they face? Does evil win in the end? Is there any reconciliation or redemption? Is there any hope portrayed? Is the author's only purpose to be shocking (my guess is yes)? I don't buy the claim that "this is how kids talk" or "this is what kids face." I think these authors are really out of touch if they actually believe that. All they know is that these books sell. If kids only read this stuff, what a skewed version of reality they are getting.

[Jenny in Florida]

I love this.

 

I also wonder what YA fic people are reading. The YA literature I've read as an adult is much better written, more serious, and less dark/exploitative than the stuff I read as a teen.

 

I've never encountered a YA novel that treated cutting, drug abuse, or EDs as non-problems. Yes, they are themes in some novels, but in all the ones I've read, they are seen as problems to be solved.

 

I'm wondering, too.

 

Both my teen daughter and I have taken to reading primarily YA fiction. I've worried a lot about what that says about the condition of my remaining brain cells, I'll admit. We've come to the conclusion, though, that we read from that section because that's where we find the most interesting books.

 

I'm a fan of urban fantasy, and it seems like most of the good stuff gets shelved.

[In The Great White North]

I think the YA genre is still developing, but the article cited here is an example of why I think it needs to be a bit more focused by the publishing industry. The mom in the article is looking for a book for a *13 year old*!! Since when is a just-turned-teen almost an adult, which is what "young adult" conveys to me??

 

Young Adult fiction should be designated for a more distinct age group, IMO, so that people can make informed decisions. The industry doesn't *want* anyone to know that young adult should probably mean (IMO, again) 17-21 or so. They don't want parents to be informed consumers because then parents might not let their kids buy something out of their age group and possibly inappropriate. Another issue is that books with young adult themes have characters who ARE in their early teens sometimes. This is an issue with most age levels in books, however.

 

Do I think a lot of YA fiction is dark? Yes. But I think that true young adults should be able to handle darker material IF it is well written and has some redeeming qualities. There is less and less of both in publishing/writing in general, though.

 

My 17-21 year olds don't read YA. They consider it baby stuff. YA is read by, marketed toward, and assigned by teachers to 12-14 year olds. Think junior high.

 

Probably has something to do with the reading level of most YA books.

[twoforjoy]

My 17-21 year olds don't read YA. They consider it baby stuff. YA is read by, marketed toward, and assigned by teachers to 12-14 year olds. Think junior high.

 

Probably has something to do with the reading level of most YA books.

 

What YA are your kids passing up, out of curiosity? Because I've read plenty of YA that is at least as complex, reading-wise, as much adult fiction.

 

Lots of stuff is put in the YA section, from books that are clearly aimed at an older/crossover audience to series that are aimed at younger teens and tweens.

 

I just wonder how many people saying YA is trash/terrible/babyish/poorly written are actually familiar with the better stuff being published in YA today? Because I honestly think that the work being put out by people like Sherman Alexie, John Green, MT Anderson, Laurie Halse Anderson, Scott Westerfeld, Susan Vaught, Suzanne Collins, Ron Koertge, as well as a lot of newer authors who have only put out one or two books so far, but which are really good, is just as interesting, complex, and well-written as stuff being put out by adult novelists.

 

I actually tend to prefer YA for fiction because, to me, it's a nice balance between what I see as either relentlessly dark and depressing "serious" adult fiction and completely light, fluffy, and poorly written "chick" or lighter lit. I find that many good YA novels deal with more serious topics but do so in a way that is more ultimately hopeful and redemptive than adult fiction dealing with the same themes. There's certainly plenty of poorly-written and inane YA out there, but the same holds true for adult literature.

Edited June 10, 2011 by twoforjoy

[*Lulu*]

I've been thinking about this thread quite a bit. When I was in 5th grade our library expanded and added, for the first time, a YA section. Suddenly books that had once been on the children's shelves were moved into the new section and we received an influx of new books that were practically carbon copies of each other. (Think Babysitter's Club by the time they had reached book 50.) My experience was that the most of the really good books in the section I had already read when they were part of the children's section. I just moved on to the adult section, (Agatha Christie was my first adult author). Any time I picked up a YA book it only served to reinforce my previous opinion.

 

Our Library currently shelves Harry Potter 5-7 in the YA section, and I just finished pre-reading them for DS. I enjoyed them, and that combined with this thread is making me wonder if I should give YA a second chance?

 

For those who read YA, what authors have you found to be actually good? Would you call their works dark? :bigear:

[LibraryLover]

I think sitting around moaning about books we only read *about* is an excersize in nothing.

 

Reading newly published books? Well, then you have something to actually discuss.

 

I have read some amazing new YA .

 

A Brief History of Montmaray by Michelle Cooper is fantastic. The new sequel, The FitzOsbornes in Exile is an absolute gem.

 

Page by Paige = A delight.

 

I very much enjoyed The Summer I Learned to Fly.

Edited June 11, 2011 by LibraryLover

[elizabeth]

Not any darker than reality. The books we read tend not to be solely about "issues" but paranormal in their tone. That said if the writing stinks it is not going to be read in this house. The flip side is that some books that have a bit of rough content are permitted because they have such merit otherwise. Vonnegut is a fine example. Perfectly ok. Twilight, however, in my estimation is sexist , ill written and has undertones of theology running through it that I object to as an influence on dd's sexuality, self image and paradigm for healthy relationships.

[Tutor]

I didn't see this posted already, but here is Sherman Alexie's response to the article (I love the title of his article, btw). For those who don't know him, Sherman Alexi is the author of the YA novel The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian as well as the more "adult" book The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fist Fight in Heaven on which the movie Smoke Signals is based. He is on our list of "authors the children must read before they graduate" list.