Is BJU racist?

[Julie Herbster]

I've been chatting on another board about this, and I thought it would be interesting to see what you all think.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a BJU alum, and I have my own opinion. But I'd like to hear your perspectives. I'm also interested to hear what you think the world at large thinks about BJ and this issue. (I know the world at large most likely thinks BJ is "weird" in a lot of ways, but I want to focus on this particular issue.)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I've been chatting on another board about this, and I thought it would be interesting to see what you all think.

 

There are many, many people who currently attend and teach at BJU and who have in the past taught and attended/graduated from BJU who are not racist. There are some who are and were. (Probably just like anywhere else in the US and elsewhere.)

 

Institutionally, yes, I think they once were (as was the University of SC, Harvard, keep namin' 'em because the majority probably fit except maybe places like Guilford). And they held on to those "ideals" of Southern ignorance much longer than institutions around them mainly, IMO, because of sheer stubbornness. Right now, I think they (institutionally) are making a sincere attempt to move away from that past.

 

ETA: When I voted, I voted speaking "institutionally." Individually, it's as divided as pretty much anywhere in the South. I will say that they emphasize equality before their God, anyway, and certainly before the law, etc.

[Crissy]

Heh. I'm one of those people I've always wondered about. The kind that takes the time to answer a survey only to say, "I don't know." :D

[Julie Herbster]

Heh. I'm one of those people I've always wondered about. The kind that takes the time to answer a survey only to say, "I don't know." :D

Hee-hee. Thanks for the input! ;)

[Julie Herbster]

Wow. I can't believe how many people have already responded to the poll in just the few minutes it has been up. I'd love to hear explanations of your vote (unless, of course, you chose "I don't know" :D).

[Diana in OR]

Well, I think it always has been. Racism is one of those issues that grieve me deeply, as some people feel about abortion. Among other policies, they didn't allow black students until 1971, and even then only married black students until 1975.

 

I don't care if they are a private college who can enroll whomever they choose. To not accept someone simply on the basis of race is disgusting to me. And, imo, even in the face of a culture where those kinds of policies were the norm, a Christian school should have set the example. There is no excuse for them not to.

 

And their now-revoked policy on no interracial dating, just leaves me with a big, "HUH?" I'm a Christian, and I don't get it.

[dangermom]

Um....splunge?!?

 

Actually I pretty much agree with Diana up there. Their former policies make me very unhappy. Although the policies have changed, I doubt that the administrator's hearts have--it hasn't been that long. OTOH I really know very little about BJU or anything Southern, so I'm speaking from a position of near-total ignorance. I don't buy BJU materials for several reasons, but their record on racial issues alone would give me very serious pause.

[Julie Herbster]

Thank you for your input; this is what I'm looking for. Maybe some of you who checked a different option can explain.

[Danestress]

Depending on how you define "racist" I think most of us, on some level, hold racial biases. So yes. I think that BJU has many people with racial prejudices in it's administration, faculty, and student body. I think the same could be said for many other, if not all, institutions in America.

 

BJU has a history of actually formalizing racial policies. Again, the same could be said of many other instutions. I think the thing that bothers me is that long after most Christian institutions were repenting of their racist pasts and seeking to heal the the wounds they caused, BJU was proudly defending it's policies and changed them only when economic and political pressure were becoming overwhelming. I think many people still believe that BJU's views were right. Apart from having a legal right in America to act according to sincerely held religious beliefs, I think many still believe that those racist policies were correct.

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Well, I voted "other" before fully reading your post so I'm sorry to skew the poll results! You wanted to focus on racial bias only; I voted other because I do know that they are very anti-Catholic and prejudicial in their materials in that regard. I guess that doesn't make them guilty of other prejudices, but it certainly makes me more inclined to believe that of them.

[Zoraida]

I am a Catholic and I know that they have publicly made statements against the Catholic church so to me that is a form of racism. I spent 13 years in a Catholic school taught by Franciscan Nuns. We were always taught by the sisters that Protestants were our close cousins and that we should always respect their religion. I have always kept this attitude and respected my Protestant neighbors. When Pope Benedict was visiting here a few weeks ago - he was also promoting the same message. We are all Christians and should promote a unity among the different Christian churches.

 

Blessings

 

Zoraida

[8filltheheart]

I am a Catholic and I know that they have publicly made statements against the Catholic church so to me that is a form of racism. I spent 13 years in a Catholic school taught by Franciscan Nuns. We were always taught by the sisters that Protestants were our close cousins and that we should always respect their religion. I have always kept this attitude and respected my Protestant neighbors. When Pope Benedict was visiting here a few weeks ago - he was also promoting the same message. We are all Christians and should promote a unity among the different Christian churches.

 

Blessings

 

Zoraida

 

 

Beautifully stated. I agree 100%.

 

They also twist historical facts to support their POV. I have posted before about their American gov't book. In the middle of a discussion on religious liberty they make a reference to hitting a wall of Catholicism b/c of the Quebec Act (which they never define).

 

Ironically, Catholics had been being denied the right to hold gov't positions b/c prior to this one had to swear allegiance to the Protestant religion in order to serve in civil positions. The Quebec Act simply allowed Catholics civil rights by removing the oath to Protestantism.

 

To never teach students what the Quebec Act is and then to twist it in the middle of a discourse on liberty to advocate their POV......pretty much sums up my perspective on BJU.

[forty-two]

I am a Catholic and I know that they have publicly made statements against the Catholic church so to me that is a form of racism.

 

I feel the need to quibble here. Catholicism is a religion, not a race. Thus, anti-Catholicism cannot, by definition, be racism. It is a form of prejudice, to be sure, and I certainly disagree with BJU's stance on the issue (as well as a host of others), but it still isn't racism of any form.

 

To answer the original question, yes, I think the institution of BJU has interpreted Scripture in such a way as to Biblically justify racist beliefs and practices. Even if they have changed their practices, I don't believe they have fundamentally changed their methods for interpreting Scripture - which affects far more than just beliefs about race - and, honestly, I will never use any BJU materials because of it.

[Gayle39]

I've used several of BJU materials. I have never heard that they were rascists? Where does this come from????

[forty-two]

I've used several of BJU materials. I have never heard that they were rascists? Where does this come from????

My main issue with them is theological, but at least part of the racist rep came from their infamous policy forbidding interracial dating. They misused (imo) a Bible verse/passage to justify it, and defended it well into the '90s.

[nmoira]

 

I've used several of BJU materials. I have never heard that they were rascists? Where does this come from????

Here's the Wikipedia entry.

[nmoira]

 

My main issue with them is theological, but at least part of the racist rep came from their infamous policy forbidding interracial dating. They misused (imo) a Bible verse/passage to justify it, and defended it well into the '90s.

It wasn't dropped until after all the publicity about Bush's visit in 2000.

[Fourmother]

It wasn't dropped until after all the publicity about Bush's visit in 2000.

 

 

Exactly. And if his visit hadn't generated such bad press, it wouldn't have been dropped even then, IMO. I won't have any BJU materials in my home.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Exactly. And if his visit hadn't generated such bad press, it wouldn't have been dropped even then, IMO. I won't have any BJU materials in my home.

 

People who I NEVER thought racist showed their true colors to me after this decision. I was shocked and appalled, and it disturbed me how shocked and appalled they were with ME because I shook my head and said "A bit late on that, aren't they?" Funny how you think you know people, and how you think people know you.

 

And, btw, I believe (but cannot prove) that the decision came down not because of bad press for the university (I was at the university during the supreme court case, and bad press was the order of the day -- indeed, bad press was a sign that they were doing things "right" and opposing the world as they were commanded by scripture) but because of politics. Specifically, to make things look better for Dubya because *he* was getting such bad press for making a campaign speech there.

 

Stephen Jones, current president, seems to be steering the place away from being in bed with politicians, so that's something. They wield a lot of influence.

The fact that Richard Hand (2000 presidential politics again) is still employed there makes me wonder if my initial answer is correct. I *think* they're moving away from the old attitudes. But I'm not easy in that thinking.

[QuirkyKapers]

Wow-

I know several people that use BJU. I myself have never looked at their materials. After reading all the posts so far, it certainly doesn't make me want to purchase materials from them. What a shame that prejudicial attitudes still exsist in places that say they are Christian.:001_huh:

[Brindee]

I've used BJU materials. I didn't know anything about this stuff. Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

[susie in tx]

Um....splunge?!?

 

Actually I pretty much agree with Diana up there. Their former policies make me very unhappy. Although the policies have changed, I doubt that the administrator's hearts have--it hasn't been that long. <snip>, but their record on racial issues alone would give me very serious pause.

regarding purchasing their products.

 

:iagree:

 

I refused to buy BJU products due to past racial issues and the fact that I haven't been able to verify if anything BUT their posted policies have changed.

[Fourmother]

Specifically, to make things look better for Dubya because *he* was getting such bad press for making a campaign speech there.

 

 

Yes, that's more like what I wanted to say. I had the feeling it was changed because it was politically expedient to do so at the moment, not because BJU had second thoughts about the policy itself. Even if the change had been made for altruistic reasons, it's still all too fresh. Right or wrong, I admit that I will probably be leery of BJU for a very long time.

[Cinder]

My main issue with them is theological, but at least part of the racist rep came from their infamous policy forbidding interracial dating. They misused (imo) a Bible verse/passage to justify it, and defended it well into the '90s.

 

 

I had heard of this policy about 10 years ago. Incredulous, I wrote to them asking if this was true. The letter I got back stated their policy against "interracial" dating and went on to explain that the source of that policy was God's separation of people at the Tower of Babel. They believed this separation showed that God's purpose was to keep the "races" separate. I don't remember all they said--it was a long time ago and it bothered dh enough that he destroyed the letter. But this really stuck with me and I have chosen not to use any of their materials because of it.

 

Cinder

[Ellie]

that BJU didn't believe that one race was better than another, but that *all* races should intermarry only with their own. That doesn't fit *my* concept of racist; that would be when someone believes that one race is better than another, and that isn't the case.

[Diana in OR]

that BJU didn't believe that one race was better than another, but that *all* races should intermarry only with their own. That doesn't fit *my* concept of racist; that would be when someone believes that one race is better than another, and that isn't the case.

 

One of the issues that strikes me is that they didn't allow blacks to enroll in their school until 1971, even though they were founded in 1927. Admittedly, I don't know their stated reason for such, but it smacks of racism, and I can't think of any other reason for such a policy.

[Storm Bay]

I had heard of this policy about 10 years ago. Incredulous, I wrote to them asking if this was true. The letter I got back stated their policy against "interracial" dating and went on to explain that the source of that policy was God's separation of people at the Tower of Babel. They believed this separation showed that God's purpose was to keep the "races" separate. I don't remember all they said--it was a long time ago and it bothered dh enough that he destroyed the letter. But this really stuck with me and I have chosen not to use any of their materials because of it.

 

Cinder

 

Wow, I knew none of this! Had I known, I wouldn't have bought the one BJU thing I have. That tower of Babel account has nothing to do with race as I understand it. And how about that other scripture that says that God made all nations of one blood? I am very upset to hear this, because this is an issue close to my heart. It's always hurt me when people are racist (and I've learned that racism can go more than one way, which was quite a shock as when I was a kid I thought it was only caucasians that were racist--which is what my non-racist family mostly is.)

[Elaine]

Heh. I'm one of those people I've always wondered about. The kind that takes the time to answer a survey only to say, "I don't know." :D

 

Well, you're not alone.:D I don't know either.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

that BJU didn't believe that one race was better than another, but that *all* races should intermarry only with their own. That doesn't fit *my* concept of racist; that would be when someone believes that one race is better than another, and that isn't the case.

 

It is true that is what they *said.* But seeing as how Sr. was hand in hand with the KKK, accepting money from them to fund gospel meetings, etc and historically had whispered ties to the Klan, I dunno.

 

Read here. There's more. But you just have to google. When III says in an interview the 60's "A Negro is best when he serves at the table," and then follows up very quickly by saying "I'm not a racist," what they SAID about what they think about all the races being equal doesn't really hold much water with me. (Ok, no water. Lots of holes in that bucket.)

 

My big beef is that Bob III didn't apologize and absolutely misconstrued the university's position (that they didn't try to justify the ban on interracial dating on scripture) in his Larry King interview. One might call it "lying." I dunno. You look at what the university said for years vs. what they told the press after the ban was lifted, and then decide if they are credible on this issue.

[Danestress]

that BJU didn't believe that one race was better than another, but that *all* races should intermarry only with their own. That doesn't fit *my* concept of racist; that would be when someone believes that one race is better than another, and that isn't the case.

 

 

But the admitted white students, asians and hispanics - just not blacks - until the 1970's. I know that's been 35 years, but the racist *past* seems to be there. Not sure if there has been a repentence for that.

[Fourmother]

that BJU didn't believe that one race was better than another, but that *all* races should intermarry only with their own. That doesn't fit *my* concept of racist; that would be when someone believes that one race is better than another, and that isn't the case.

 

I've heard of this philosophy before. I believe it comes from the "Separate But Equal" way of thinking. It doesn't work. Oh there's plenty of separation, but not much equality since those with power consider themselves more "equal" than all the rest. And that's what racism is about really, power. If the fruits of segregation don't offer enough evidence against this argument, think Animal Farm.

 

This topic is rife with potential for anger and hard feelings, so I'm going to bow out now before I say something I might regret.

 

Note to Pam SFSOM: I tried to rep you, but the "system" won't let me.

[Kay in Cal]

I also would never buy anything they produce, promote or profit from.

 

They've done so much to give Christianity a bad name... thier eventual reluctant removal of thier racist policies was way too little, way too late, and included no sign of true repentance. Believing that races should be "separate" is indeed a form of racism, absolutely immoral, unethical, and completely in violation of all that Christ taught, IMHO.

[Jenny in Atl]

I dislike BJU very much, but I have used their Iowa testing service. Where else can I order the Iowa? Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.

[KAR120C]

I dislike BJU very much, but I have used their Iowa testing service. Where else can I order the Iowa? Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.

Piedmont Educational Services carries the ITBS and also doesn't require quite as many pieces of paper filled out to "qualify".

[Jenny in Atl]

Piedmont Educational Services carries the ITBS and also doesn't require quite as many pieces of paper filled out to "qualify".

 

I have used them in the past but thought they used older versions. I will switch back again for next years.

 

Much thanks!

[Philothea]

Ever since I have known about BJU, I have never wanted anything to do with them. But then again, I would never support an overtly Protestant organization, especially one with anti-Catholicism and racism mixed in with their theology and "worldview." (I just have lots of issues with them all together)

 

However, I would not be upset or offended if someone of the BJU mindset or a Protestant did not want to buy Catholic materials-- actually I would expect it, in most cases.

[LisaNY]

I stopped using their materials a few years ago when I read an anti-Semitic remark in their World History text. I also spoke w/another woman who used some of their video courses. She told me that during a *spelling* lesson, no less, the teacher seemed to be mocking a Jewish man at the Wailing Wall. (Apparently, this was a photo used in the lesson - I'm not sure why)

[*anj*]

I voted "I don't know" because that's the truth. I don't know whether or not the people who run BJU today are racist. I do believe that racists ran BJU until pretty recently, and that is reason enough for me to steer clear of them. I know that there are/were racist policies in many universities and other places, but theirs were very publicly known. I first became aware of BJU when I was in high school. Honestly, we (myself and my friends from our little Connecticut town) thought that the name itself was reason enough not to take it seriously. Come on, "Bob Jones University"?

Anyway, I will not have any of their products in my home, nor would I ever recommend that one of my children (or really, anyone at all) attend that school.

 

It's kind of like this: there's a little town maybe 20 miles from mine. About 10 years ago they had a very highly publicized KKK rally in town. There are virtually no people of color in that town. Why did they choose to go there? Do they have a lot of support in that town?

 

I don't know. But I don't go there. I don't shop there, I don't eat there, I will drive through it, but I would never in a million years live there.

[*anj*]

But then again, I would never support an overtly Protestant organization, especially one with anti-Catholicism and racism mixed in with their theology and "worldview." (I just have lots of issues with them all together)

 

 

Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm speaking specifically about the part to which I added bold for emphasis. What kind of organization are you talking about? What makes an organization overtly Protestant? I could understand if you were saying "I choose not to purchase books published by The Protestant and Reformed Publishing House or Calvary Chapel Media," but do you mean you would never support an organization like Focus on the Family? Would you not buy parenting materials from this organization simply because one of the authors happens to be a pastor? What about Peace Hill Press? Susan's husband is a pastor.

 

I'm not jumping ugly, just asking you to 'splain your point in more detail.

Thanks!!;)

 

(Oh, and just to clarify: I do not believe that either the P&R Publishing House nor CC Media are racist in any way, but because they are not Roman Catholic and do not support RC theology I'd imagine that the OP would consider them to be anti Catholic on some level.)

[Parrothead]

Yes, I believe they are and alway have been. And, IMHO, race issues are only the tip of the iceberg.

[pmegan]

As a secular homeschooler with progressive values, their well-known racist policies and past is only one of the reasons that Bob Jones University would never see a penny of my money.

[Philothea]

I have no clue why this posted twice, mea culpa.

[Philothea]

Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm speaking specifically about the part to which I added bold for emphasis. What kind of organization are you talking about? What makes an organization overtly Protestant? I could understand if you were saying "I choose not to purchase books published by The Protestant and Reformed Publishing House or Calvary Chapel Media," but do you mean you would never support an organization like Focus on the Family? Would you not buy parenting materials from this organization simply because one of the authors happens to be a pastor? What about Peace Hill Press? Susan's husband is a pastor.

 

I just chose, as much as possible, to patronize vendors and organizations that I agree with.

 

I can handle having an HSLDA membership, for the greater good, but I vehemently dislike some of the things that they write and circulate. I consider them much more lightweight than BJU.

 

I would not normally buy a book that included or quoted things directly opposed to my beliefs as a Catholic. I would prefer a secular alternative if nothing else were available. I'm just very particular and if I cannot have it my way, I want religion/theology left out.

 

I don't want to be long winded, as this thread is about BJU and racism, but I hope that explains it. I hope no offense was taken at my original post or this one, as I have meant nothing personal to anyone. :)

[*anj*]

 

I don't want to be long winded, as this thread is about BJU and racism, but I hope that explains it. I hope no offense was taken at my original post or this one, as I have meant nothing personal to anyone. :)

 

Oh, I agree. I didn't want to hijack the thread.

Nope, no offense taken here. I was just curious and a little confused. Thanks for clearing it up! :001_smile: