Girls in High School?

[Stacie]

I attended a meeting on requirements and opportunities for homeschooling high school on Saturday. The speaker was well acquainted with the state graduation requirements, college admissions for schools in the south, and scholarship information. The parents were varied in their backgrounds, educational style, and ages of children. The discussion was enlightening and encouraging. The parents all seemed focused on providing an excellent education for their children, enabling them to prepare their children for college, career, or whatever their future held.

 

During the Q&A time a lone, quiet voice from the back of the room politely asked, "Are there any advantages to teaching high school to girls? There seems to be so much science and math and girls just don't need to know all of that." :001_huh: She was sitting there with her five or six daughters. Even the speaker was rendered speechless, though she did recover her composure and answered with grace and honesty.

 

I don't have girls but I was one a long time ago. ;) I can't get my head around not preparing your child for life in the world in which we live, and a future of their choosing. As a highly motivated teen, it wouldn't have gone over very well with me to not have the option to pursue high school and beyond. Is this very common? I sure hope not!

[dirty ethel rackham]

Not only that ... wouldn't there be a legal issue with the mandatory attendance laws that reach into the mid-to-late teens in most states?

[Mrs Mungo]

Description of a Worthy Woman

10An excellent wife, who can find?

For her worth is far above jewels.

11The heart of her husband trusts in her,

And he will have no lack of gain.

12She does him good and not evil

All the days of her life.

13She looks for wool and flax

And works with her hands in delight.

14She is like merchant ships;

She brings her food from afar.

15She rises also while it is still night

And gives food to her household

And portions to her maidens.

16She considers a field and buys it;

From her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17She girds herself with strength

And makes her arms strong.

18She senses that her gain is good;

Her lamp does not go out at night.

19She stretches out her hands to the distaff,

And her hands grasp the spindle.

20She extends her hand to the poor,

And she stretches out her hands to the needy.

21She is not afraid of the snow for her household,

For all her household are clothed with scarlet.

22She makes coverings for herself;

Her clothing is fine linen and purple.

23Her husband is known in the gates,

When he sits among the elders of the land.

24She makes linen garments and sells them,

And supplies belts to the tradesmen.

25Strength and dignity are her clothing,

And she smiles at the future.

26She opens her mouth in wisdom,

And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

27She looks well to the ways of her household,

And does not eat the bread of idleness.

28Her children rise up and bless her;

Her husband also, and he praises her, saying:

29“Many daughters have done nobly,

But you excel them all.”

30Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain,

But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.

31Give her the product of her hands,

And let her works praise her in the gates.

 

How is this woman running her household and dealing with traders with no math skills?

[AK_Mom4]

I should mention this to DD17, except that I don't want to see her explode. She gets so angry with girls at her school who say they are "too stupid" to take physics or calculus.

 

I think it's a shame when we moms actively discourage our children (of either gender!) from learning everything they can and discovering their true gifts! Some kids will be interested in higher learning, some won't. But to exclude the possibility based on the gender of the student is just wrong.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Aren't these the same type of people who believe everyone should homeschool?

 

So they are planning for their uneducated daughters to homeschool their grandchildren.

[EJCMom]

It's not as uncommon as one might hope. My SIL believes the same way. She told me that she's not planning on focusing too much on math and science with her daughter because she's, "...just training her to be a housewife anyway, so she doesn't really need to know all that stuff." :001_huh: I didn't know how to respond when she said that. I was rendered utterly speechless for a good five minutes.

[Tap]

I do know people like this. I don't understand it, but I do know them.

 

Ds befriended a girl who was raised to believe that a girl's place was in the home. Her mother was an at home mom, who spent her days on the computer. Their house was dirty (not cluttered-it was stinky/dirty) so it wasn't as if the mom was taking care of her family or home and passing this love and passion on to her daughters. The girl was in high school, dual enrolled in college in fact, but in our conversations she flat out told me, that she had no intention of ever using her basic education. She didn't plan to go to college for an education, nor did she plan to work. Her college classes weren't preparatory for life, they were centered around her own interests in dance and theater.

 

I know another family who focuses on teaching their girls to run a modern homestead. Child focused. Home milled grain, baked into bread. Farm raised cattle and chickens processed by hand. Preserved food. The girls stopped formal education at 8th grade, unless they studied a subject or two on their own.

 

The one thing I can say, is that at least the girls who got the 8th grade education, will be able to make a happy and healthy home for the children and to feed them.

 

 

ETA: (I had to go for a minute) Although the two families share a similar philosophy of 'the girl belongs at home', the one family I know who truely teaches homesteading, make it a priority to educate the girls in managing a home. The other family, sent their dd's to school, but left them with no skills to actually be the 'girl at home'.

 

I don't believe in this philosophy. I have much more respect for one family over the other based not on what level of education the girls have acknowledged by the state dept of education, but what usable education each has. In the family which stops formal education at 8th grade, the girls are allowed to continue study if they want to, it just isn't a focus of the day. Education for them, isn't discouraged, it just isn't the primary duty of being a child.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Tap, tap, tap

[Giraffe]

I'm about ready to explode myself. I was the girl in high school who was advanced in science and math. I was harassed so horribly by one teacher that my father had to go into the school in his Navy Captain dress whites to tell the school to solve the problem or he would (and my father was/is one intimidating man!). The next year the physics teacher kept singling me out to the rest of the class as the girl who was ahead of everyone else (I was taking an "advanced" physics as a Junior while the rest of the class was in "regular" as Seniors). Made me so mad and embarrassed and insecure. I dropped the class back to "regular" and switched periods so that I was in a new group of people. I told the teacher if he singled me out again I would go to the administration (I'd already been a few times and couldn't get resolution so I dropped the class to take off the pressure). I get agitated thinking about it 25 years later. :rant:

 

To think that a mom would think her daughters don't need math and science infuriates me.

 

ARRGH!!!:banghead::cursing:

[SweetBean]

Not only that ... wouldn't there be a legal issue with the mandatory attendance laws that reach into the mid-to-late teens in most states?

I thought school attendance was required through age 16 in all states, 18 in some. Math and Science are required subjects in our state.

[Garga]

I surely hope there aren't a lot of people with that mindset! Sheesh! That just makes my blood boil!

[Tap]

I thought school attendance was required through age 16 in all states, 18 in some. Math and Science are required subjects in our state.

 

mandatory but not enforced

[AuntPol]

Aren't these the same type of people who believe everyone should homeschool?

 

So they are planning for their uneducated daughters to homeschool their grandchildren.

 

Even if you do become a stay at home mother that homeschools, I would think you need to be well-educated so that you can teach your children (unless you assume that said girl will only have girl children lol).

[Tap]

I thought school attendance was required through age 16 in all states, 18 in some. Math and Science are required subjects in our state.

 

mandatory but not enforced

 

 

State Enactment1 Compulsory

attendance,

2002

Alabama 1915 7–16

Alaska 1929 7–16

Arizona 1899 6–16...2

Arkansas 1909 5–17....3

California 1874 6–18

Colorado 1889 —

Connecticut 1872 7–18....4

Delaware 1907 5–165

District of Columbia 1864 5–18

Florida 1915 6–16....6

Georgia 1916 6–16

Hawaii 1896 6–18

Idaho 1887 7–16

Illinois 1883 7–16

Indiana 1897 7–16

Iowa 1902 6–16...7

Kansas 1874 7–18....4

Kentucky 1896 6–16....8

Louisiana 1910 7–17

Maine 1875 7–17

Maryland 1902 5–16

Massachusetts 1852 6–16

Michigan 1871 6–16

Minnesota 1885 7–16

Mississippi 1918 6–17

Missouri 1905 7–16

Montana 1883 7–16....9

Nebraska 1887 7–16

Nevada 1873 7–17

New Hampshire 1871 6–16

New Jersey 1875 6–16

New Mexico 1891 5–18

New York 1874 6–16

North Carolina 1907 7–16

North Dakota 1883 7–16

Ohio 1877 6–18

Oklahoma 1907 5–18

Oregon 1889 7–18

Pennsylvania 1895 8–17

Rhode Island 1883 6–16

South Carolina 1915 5–16

South Dakota 1883 6–16

Tennessee 1905 6–17

Texas 1915 6–18

Utah 1890 6–18

Vermont 1867 6–16

Virginia 1908 5–18

Washington 1871 8–17...4

West Virginia 1897 6–16

Wisconsin 1879 6–18

Wyoming 1876 6–16....2

 

....NOTE: (—) = not available.

1. Date of enactment of first compulsory attendance law.

2. Ages 6–16 or 10th grade completion.

3. Must have turned 17 by October 1.

4. Eligible for waiver.

5. Must have turned 5 by August 31.

6. Compulsory school age for all Manatee County Students who attained the age of 16 on or after October 1, 1999 is 18, unless the student has earned a high school diploma prior to reaching the 18th birthday.

7. Must have turned 16 by September 15.

8. Must have turned 6 by October 1.

9. Age 16 and completion of eighth grade.

Source: Department of Education, National Center for Educational Statistics, Digest of Education Statistics, 2004

 

 

Read more: State Compulsory School Attendance Laws — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0112617.html#ixzz1IZzuFRDH

Edited April 4, 2011 by Tap, tap, tap

[Stacie]

I didn't think of the mandatory attendance issue. That's a wonderful point to bring up to the speaker in an email. I think she was just befuddled how a family thought this meeting worthy of attending, but subscribed to this as a family value. Based on the two oldest daughter's reaction to the speaker telling the mom the girls should be educated beyond 7th grade, which is where she planned to stop, one girl was happy and another was upset. I guess one really enjoyed learning and another didn't care as much for it. At least *that* sounds like a typical family with many kids. :D

[athena1277]

I would love for my daughter to grow up and be able to be a SAHM and HS her children. However, things happen. She may not get married. Her dh could be injured and not able to work. Life is uncertain. She may have to work to feed her family. I want her to be able to do that should she have to or choose to. She will learn lots of math and science every year she's homeschooled.

[bettyandbob]

I thought we were beyond this, but every few years I see something like this. Every couple of years I've seen people on this board post that there is no point in their daughter doing much math or science in high school.

 

When I was in 8th grade my schedule was messed up and my dad went into school with me to fix it. I had been placed in adv. math 8 instead of Algebra 1. My guidance counselor didn't understand the fuss my dad was making and my dad had to explain the high school math sequence to her and explain that if I didn't take algebra 1, I wouldn't be able to take calculus. The guidance counselor then asked why my dad wanted his daughter to take calculus. That wasn't ok in 1978 and it shouldn't be now.

 

Why do people cut their dd's educations short. Do they have an interest in making sure their dd has few options when they finish with homeschool. I want all my dc to be able to study and pursue any career interest they have. If they are well prepared in all subjects then they will be limited in career and study choices. Or they will have to spend years at community college making up work they should have taken in high school, possibly for no credit.

 

Do people still believe girls are only going to be wives and mothers. Some men actually like being married to well educated women. If a girl will become a homeschooling mother shouldn't she have a strong education behind her. What about death, divorce and disability? Sometimes events change the plan and a woman who was a stay at home mom has to work. My dd is going to have education and skills to reasonably support herself and her family whether she chooses or circumstances choose for her.

[happypamama]

During the Q&A time a lone, quiet voice from the back of the room politely asked, "Are there any advantages to teaching high school to girls? There seems to be so much science and math and girls just don't need to know all of that." :001_huh: She was sitting there with her five or six daughters. Even the speaker was rendered speechless, though she did recover her composure and answered with grace and honesty.

 

 

 

And yet, when I was in school (15 years ago), people looked down on me because I was particularly good in math (science too, but I kind of have always disliked science) and wanted to be a homeschooling mom instead of an engineer. Seems like girls really can't win.

 

I'm sure this mom had a legitimate concern, but it seems like it was phrased wrong. Maybe she was questioning the amount of college-prep math and science that is pushed for bright students just as a matter of course, even if that's not what's needed (I did not need multiple calculus classes in high school to be a history major in college, but that's just what good students in my high school did, and nobody questioned it), but it really came out badly.

[Mary in VA]

I had a woman tell me this almost 2 years ago--how she was just training her girls to be keepers at home. Well, I'm afraid I unloaded on her, as the wonderful man my dd was supposed to marry had just died, in front of her, on her birthday! Men DIE, guys! Our girls must be prepared to be able to pick up the pieces... That same dd was just accepted to a doctoral program--yeah, not exactly what she had planned--she thought she'd be in OH, with her dh in his second year of med school...

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

Both of my dds have/are recieving a college prep-high school education. One is a junior in college. We have always talked as if college was the natural progression and preparation for their adult life. God has gifted them in certain areas and we as parents believe it is OUR DUTY to get them the best training to enable them to use those giftings in their adult lives. If college was that training, then that is what we would to. One is gifted in different arts and believe me it is SCARY to go in what for us (her lawyer parents)a totally illogical area. But God made her that way and we've quit trying to put her in OUR box. Now I hope they both get to be SAHMs, but I certainly don't know what God has planned for them. My Dad died when I was 13, out of the blue of a heart attack. I am blessed that I get to be a SAHM, but I also have an education, and should, God forbid, my dh die, I can go back to work and a reasonable salary (I'm a little rusty)

 

The other thing that makes me CRAZY about this is the pressure it puts on the girl to find a husband!!! What is she going to do, just wait around for her husband to appear? It just sets up the girl to make a poor decision because "It must be God's plan for her!" I have heard a wise woman say something to the effect of the dc should be following what God has led them to in education, or training, or work, and then at the right time He will supply the spouse. They should not be actively pursuing a spouse. I think if we plan on them being a wife and mother only we are putting God in a box and not trusting him.

 

Just my 2 cents,

Mary

[Night Elf]

I thought school attendance was required through age 16 in all states, 18 in some. Math and Science are required subjects in our state.

 

They are required in my state too, but we are not required to show anyone what we're teaching or even what grade our children are in. We sign an attendance form by putting an X in the box that shows we did an equivalent of 4.5 hours of school on that day. We are supposed to write an evaluation at the end of the year. We're not required to show that to anyone either. So legally we should be covering the core classes but technically it's really easy to just do your own thing because no one would know.

[Nakia]

How utterly ridiculous! As the mother of 3 daughters, I am appalled that anyone is doing their own daughters such a disservice. Training them to be ignorant is doing them no favors.

[Impish]

What boggles my brain is the idea that math and science could be eliminated from running a home.

 

I mean, all else aside, how in the world would you manage a household without using math and science? Seriously!

 

Diva wants to be a wife and mom. That's great, wonderful, blah blah blah. However, I have had many talks with her about how important it is to have employable skills, higher education. There are no guarantees in life.

 

I sure as heck didn't *plan* to become disabled in my mid 30s. Wasn't even a blip on the radar until I was neck deep in carp, dealing with the reality of it. All of my children, regardless of gender, are being raised with the idea that they need to be able to step up and support their families financially. Spouses leave, die, become disabled...and you can't tell the kids that they have to give up eating, or sell them for science experiments.

[J-rap]

I don't know any homeschoolers like that myself, but I DO know homeschooling parents who feel they should only prepare their daughters for nursing or teaching... When I told one of them that one of my girls was interested in becoming a doctor, they strongly suggested nursing as a much better option for girls...

[Stacie]

I don't know any homeschoolers like that myself, but I DO know homeschooling parents who feel they should only prepare their daughters for nursing or teaching... When I told one of them that one of my girls was interested in becoming a doctor, they strongly suggested nursing as a much better option for girls...

 

I don't understand this, but I've lived it. My grandmother, when invited to the ceremony awarding my doctoral degree, told me she hoped I could teach at the elementary down the street from her because they were hiring new teachers right out of college. I'm still a disappointment to her, but my cousin who is the switchboard operator at a local walkin clinic is a source of pride because she's a nurse (I guess wearing the office uniform and working in a building with the doctor = a nurse, in my family). :)