Worth starting violin at three?

[Mergath]

My almost three year old wants to start violin lessons. She follows me around the house wearing her coat and dragging mine, saying, "We go violin store now? I play violin now? I older now, I play violin?" She loves classical music, and can recognize the different instruments by ear and by sight, so it's not like she just saw a picture once and has a passing fancy. The kid definitely wants to learn.

 

As some of you know from my other posts, money is quite tight around here, so this would require saving and substantial investments from the grandparents, though they're willing to help cover her lessons, and to do the violin as a birthday present, bless them.

 

What I'm wondering, though, is if it's even worth having a three year old take lessons. We will almost certainly have more money a year or two from now- dh is doing work training through a local company and will either get hired on there or be able to use his newly-learned technical skills to get in elsewhere- and this would be much easier for us then. But if she really does want to learn, I don't want to shoot her down because of money, either.

 

I had her measured by a local violin teacher, and we're looking at a 1/16 size violin. I've read the quality on most of them is quite bad, but she could at least master the basics. We'd be using the Suzuki method. I did voice and clarinet in high school and college, so strings are like a foreign country for me.

 

Advice? Thoughts? Thanks!

[Dmmetler]

In general, what I tell the parents of my students is that when a child has asked consistently for an instrument for at least 6 months, it's time to look for a good teacher, and when they've asked for 12 months, it's time to begin lessons. If the child wants to play, and is set on playing, then yes, it's worth it.

 

One thing I would suggest, though-is there a "Pre-Twinkle" class in your area? This is a group class which starts the earliest Suzuki technique for very young students, so is less expensive. I also wouldn't purchase/rent a violin until a teacher tells you to do so-most Suzuki teachers begin the youngest students on a cardboard violin at home initially to work on posture, hand position, and so on.

[Mergath]

In general, what I tell the parents of my students is that when a child has asked consistently for an instrument for at least 6 months, it's time to look for a good teacher, and when they've asked for 12 months, it's time to begin lessons. If the child wants to play, and is set on playing, then yes, it's worth it.

 

One thing I would suggest, though-is there a "Pre-Twinkle" class in your area? This is a group class which starts the earliest Suzuki technique for very young students, so is less expensive. I also wouldn't purchase/rent a violin until a teacher tells you to do so-most Suzuki teachers begin the youngest students on a cardboard violin at home initially to work on posture, hand position, and so on.

 

I knew none of this, and I will definitely have to look into that. I had read something about a cardboard violin on a violin website, but the person didn't really explain it, and I was sort of :confused:. It makes much more sense now though.

 

I'll have to look into those classes. Hopefully there's one in the area. The teacher we spoke with today had never had a kid younger than five, so he didn't have too much to tell us, though he told us he was willing to teach her if we wanted to give it a try, lol. I don't think he'd be our first choice, though he was a very nice man. :001_smile:

 

Thanks so much for the advice!

[FO4UR]

My first gut reaction is to say "wait." Even a year will make a big difference. Granted, I'm not the one with the 3yo on my sleeve begging daily to play.;)

 

I have a family member who was about 3yo when she boldly walked up to the pianist in church and sat beside her...pretty much demanding to learn. She is a phenomenal musician today. So...3yo isn't necessarily too young *if* this is completely driven by her.

 

 

I would see if you can sit in on some Suzuki with her, get in on some pre-Twinkle lessons and "try before you buy." Meanwhile, sing and introduce her to the keyboard too.

[Giraffe]

Yes! My 3yo has started and she's enjoying it. Find a good teacher who really likes little ones and it will be fun. We've rented a violin and she loves playing it, working on rest and playing position, etc. I don't mind paying the rental - she's learning position on a real violin and seeing how it makes the sounds, etc. She wouldn't like a cardboard one.

 

We're going to get serious next fall - this spring was just about getting acquainted in my mind. The teacher concurred and I think it was good for DD. Low pressure is the key for my little one.

 

ETA: Even our teacher would prefer to wait until 4yo but DD is *almost* 4 and didn't want to wait. Because we're doing this low pressure, she was willing to take us on.

 

HTH.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Hopscotch67

[Mergath]

So...3yo isn't necessarily too young *if* this is completely driven by her.

 

 

It is definitely all her. I keep telling her, "Why don't we wait until you're a little older?" She'll stand there for maybe ten seconds and say, "I older now. I play violin? I play cello, too?" *sigh* At least she isn't begging to play the piano. We live in a tiny second floor apartment, and that just wouldn't happen, lol.

 

I have been giving her some very basic voice lessons too, which she seems to enjoy. Her sense of pitch and rhythm aren't great, which I worry about a bit. I don't know if learning an instrument would help improve her pitch, or if she would have difficulty learning in the first place. Of course, my mom said I couldn't carry a tune with a bucket until I was at least five. Ten years later, I was singing solos in front of hundreds of people and playing the clarinet in the school band. I guess we'll have to wait and see with dd.

[Lostinabook]

I'd say yes since she's so interested. There were 2 3yos in ds's Pre-Twinkle class & both of them were in Book 4 by the time they were 6 or 7. They both LOVE playing & are highly motivated re: practicing.

[Terabith]

I'd say absolutely, yes, IF you have a good Suzuki teaher who is experienced with young children! It sounds like she has a real passion, and that is great. Most 2-3 year olds don't have a great sense of pitch and rhythm, however. Music Together and Musikgarten group early childhood music classes are AWESOME and lay an excellent foundation for later instrument playing and singing.

 

I would really hesitate for her to start with a teacher who uses a traditional manner, however. I don't think reading music is going to be a priority at three, for instance.

[cdrumm4448]

DS started Suzuki violin when he was 3 1/2 and DD was 2 1/2. We never used the cardboard violins. They were both careful enough with the 32nds they started with. We rented for a few years, but then one of the rentals had an accident and the violin store said they'd never cover another one (even though we paid the $55 per quarter plus $10 for insurance.) So, we started buying instruments and we've never regretted it. DD's last outfit purchase (an 1/8th) was about $300. We do plan to resell them and recoup some of the money.

 

We've had good luck with StringWorks (made in the USA!) and of course, the Euro brand. Euros are more expensive, but they make such a lovely sound (even the smaller ones). You should sit in on a Pre-Twinkle class, but they were never cheaper in our group. You are talking about $12-$20 per half hour for the private lesson and $35 per month for the group lesson (group lessons usually run the school year.) You will also need to purchase Book 1 with CD. Our teacher does about 6 lessons over the summer. We are also going to a Suzuki Institute this year (about $700 for 4 days - the other Institutes were around $1500 for 6 days with hotel stay.) Institutes aren't required, but if your DD sticks with it, you might consider it.

 

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

[snickelfritz]

My kids are not prodigies. They practice a moderate amount most weeks and make reasonable progress through the books. Their teacher mixes in a liberal amount of fiddle music, so don't know how fast they would go with strictly Suzuki. Older dd started at 6 and younger dd started at 4 1/2.

 

Looking back, I wouldn't start *my* child at 3. Younger child definitely progressed much slower than older and didn't have a long attention span. I really only started younger when I did, because our teacher let them do a 20/10 split of a 30 minute lesson. They now, at almost 8 and 5 1/2 share a 45 minute lesson. Older dd can handle 30 minutes, younger can't. Next year, they will be up to having 30 minutes each.

 

Again, can't speak to all kids. But, with kids like my kids, I would find something like Kindermusik to do until they were at least 4 (if highly motivated and maybe closer to 5.). I don't regret starting younger at 4 1/2. She's fearless in front of groups. She participated in a fiddle contest at our state fair, played in front of a reasonably large crowd, and won 2nd place for her division. But, she has GREATLY improved in her attention span in the last 6 months and it is SO much easier.

[zaichiki]

I have 3 kids doing Suzuki lessons.

 

 

1. First child asked to play the cello after trying it at an instrument petting zoo. He asked for 6 months before we finally got a teacher and rented an instrument. He was 5.5 when he started and is still playing (albeit it is not his passion) and practicing well 6 years later. He doesn't want to quit.
   
2. Second child attended brother's lessons and saw other kids playing violins. She began to "play" on sticks, pencils, and her baby doll at 2.5. By 3 she was begging for lessons and we gave her a cardboard violin for her birthday. She began viola lessons at 3.5 and it *is* her passion. She is all kinds of in love for the instrument now 5 years later and is very involved, playing in an orchestra and in a quartet in addition to her weekly lesson and two group classes.
   
3. Third child didn't really show any interest in an instrument until 4, even though he was around siblings' lessons and daily practice his whole life. He struggled to clap a rhythm and sing anything *near* in tune and is still working on this. He asked for a cello for his 4th birthday and started cello lessons a few months later. Now, a year later, he is just ready to start playing his Twinkles. He says he likes to play the rhythms, but gets VERY silly during our daily practices. We don't practice long. BUT the interesting thing is that he can be very mature (plays Monopoly with siblings and has no trouble following the rules) and can have a very long attention span for other things (already reads chapter books for example and will frequently sit with a book for an hour). So WHO KNOWS what's up with this one! :lol:
   

So -- all kids are different, even within one family.

 

 

If your dd is "obsessed," then absolutely start her IF you can find a Suzuki teacher who really loves the little ones. (Just like traditional teachers, Suzuki teachers vary in their talents.)

 

Which instrument would she choose? Violin? Get a copy of the Suzuki Violin book 1 CD from Amazon and start playing it in the background for her... clap to the Twinkle rhythms... dance to the CD with her. Teach her to bow (bending over looking at toes with feet together) at the end of a song she hears. By the time you are able to find her a teacher you'll know if she's ready and if she is she'll *really* be on fire for the violin.

 

Have fun!

[catz]

In general, what I tell the parents of my students is that when a child has asked consistently for an instrument for at least 6 months, it's time to look for a good teacher, and when they've asked for 12 months, it's time to begin lessons. If the child wants to play, and is set on playing, then yes, it's worth it.

 

I like this. Probably a very good rule of thumb.

 

I started my daughter in violin right at age 4 (my son in piano at 5). My daughter is now 6 and well established in Suzuki. I grew up doing Suzuki violin as well. I think the single most important thing to starting early is desire and commitment BY THE PARENT. You need to be willing to get out instruments for a short time daily or almost daily. Even when it feels like you're making no progress and the effort is pointless. My daughter start talking music lessons before 3 because she had an older sibling taking them. She couldn't keep her hands off instruments and pianos. The first year is tough, even for a coordinated, musically inclined kid.

 

So my daughter at 6 has now managed to pass the majority of her peers that started a year or 2 earlier and is coming up quickly on many more. So I think that if money's tight and you'd like to wait another year, I don't think you lose much if anything over that time! Kindermusik style classes are a great setup into private lessons - both my kids did them before starting their private lessons. And in fact, if you haven't done anything like that, it might be ideal way to get your daughter listening and thinking about music, rhythms, etc.

 

Good luck!

[catz]

I'd say yes since she's so interested. There were 2 3yos in ds's Pre-Twinkle class & both of them were in Book 4 by the time they were 6 or 7. They both LOVE playing & are highly motivated re: practicing.

 

We go to a large music school with a huge developed Suzuki program. I know at least 3 dozen kids that started violin at age 2 or 3. And none of them were in book 4 by age 6 or 7! :D Not that it isn't possible, of course. It definitely is and there are kids like that who do go through our music school (although our music school tends to send kids very slowly through book 1 to set good basics and kids can fly from there if they want). But kids that move fast at an early age definitely tend have something extra driving them (musical and motivated parents, highly self motivated, advanced small motor, etc).

[EKS]

The advice I got from our (traditional, not Suzuki) violin teacher was to wait until the kid could read well. For my older one that was age 9 and for the younger one it was age 4 but we waited until 5.

[zaichiki]

We go to a large music school with a huge developed Suzuki program. I know at least 3 dozen kids that started violin at age 2 or 3. And none of them were in book 4 by age 6 or 7! :D Not that it isn't possible, of course. It definitely is and there are kids like that who do go through our music school (although our music school tends to send kids very slowly through book 1 to set good basics and kids can fly from there if they want). But kids that move fast at an early age definitely tend have something extra driving them (musical and motivated parents, highly self motivated, advanced small motor, etc).

 

Good point. Most kids who start young are not going to fly from the start. (Though I know only 3 other kids the same age as my dd who started at 2 and 3 and they were all in book 4 by 6 or 7. Ha! Isn't that funny?)

 

My dd was one of those early starters who flew through the repertoire from the very first month. She *was* highly self-motivated and extremely coordinated for her age. Those other kids I mentioned above have had those same advantages from an early age.

 

BUT it's not about how fast you progress. Even though my current 5 year old is like molasses when it comes to progress, I am SO glad he is doing this. He is not made miserable by the cello, but he is learning to persevere even when things are hard. He's learning to appreciate hard work. His fine motor skills and ability to focus when not doing a self-initiated activity are blossoming. I'm very proud of him (and of myself -- ha! -- it's tough to hang in there with the daily practices).

Edited April 2, 2011 by zaichiki

[Lostinabook]

We go to a large music school with a huge developed Suzuki program. I know at least 3 dozen kids that started violin at age 2 or 3. And none of them were in book 4 by age 6 or 7! :D Not that it isn't possible, of course. It definitely is and there are kids like that who do go through our music school (although our music school tends to send kids very slowly through book 1 to set good basics and kids can fly from there if they want). But kids that move fast at an early age definitely tend have something extra driving them (musical and motivated parents, highly self motivated, advanced small motor, etc).

 

Oh, I didn't mean I thought that was what most kids would do. Mine were nearly 5 and 5 1/2 when they started & I think they probably should have started a couple years later. I just meant that if her child is really motivated she'll probably move quickly. I know the one child in our program drove the practicing himself. He *loved* playing & would listen to the cds over & over & then play ahead in the books. The other child I think has highly motivated parents. ;)

[catz]

My dd was one of those early starters who flew through the repertoire from the very first month. She *was* highly self-motivated and extremely coordinated for her age. Those other kids I mentioned above have had those same advantages from an early age.

 

 

That's awesome! My daughter had all the pieces in place - great small motor, etc. Started writing on her own right after 3. Zero effort and motivation! She could do everything she tried, but putting in the effort was the hard part for her.

 

 

BUT it's not about how fast you progress. Even though my current 5 year old is like molasses when it comes to progress, I am SO glad he is doing this. He is not made miserable by the cello, but he is learning to persevere even when things are hard. He's learning to appreciate hard work. His fine motor skills and ability to focus when not doing a self-initiated activity are blossoming. I'm very proud of him (and of myself -- ha! -- it's tough to hang in there with the daily practices).

 

I TOTALLY agree with this! There are so many great life lessons that can be learned by this process. I'm not sure if music is really either of my kid's true passions, but they've definitely both benefited greatly. I love how one piece or another continually challenges them and I especially think it's great for a child to have an opportunity to work with another adult as a mentor.

 

Sometimes you just don't know what will happen. My oldest takes Suzuki piano and started at 5. His small motor, motivation, and behavior was just crazy at age 5 (academically advanced in every other way). We spent months doing the simplest things at the piano over and over. One day 9 months in he sat down at the piano and played a late book 1 song, hands together perfectly. Within months he knew all of book 1 hands together. He's 10 and is set to finish Suzuki repertoire before high school. My daughter crawled through early book 1. She hit the Minuets and all of a sudden everything came together in terms of motivation and technique. She's flying now. So watch that younger of yours! He may surprise you! :D

[StephanieZ]

Sure, do it! All my kids started suzuki violin at 3. (Actually, my youngest started at 20 mos, but that's a whole 'nother story, lol)

 

Suzuki violin (and later guitar for ds) was a wonderful experience for all my kids. They all continue to be highly engaged in music. They are actually each very gifted musicians which I attribute 90% to their Suzuki music, 10% to listening/exposure from birth, and 0% to genetics (b/c trust be, I know both sides of their tree and there is nothing there. Zippo.)

 

It is also a wonderful opportunity to learn how to be a wonderful coach/teacher to your child. A good suzuki teacher is part music teacher and part magical early childhood education genius. Just watching lessons, and learning how to talk to your child about their music. . . and seeing how this incremental, incredibly positive, consistent approach can truly "teach talent" in any child. . . is positively inspirational.

 

Music study also teaches perseverence, the value of consistent effort, and provides an opportunity to build wonderful relationships with other adults.

 

I am resisting bragging on my kids, but suffice it to say they are very successful musically and academically, and I think their educational beginnings in Suzuki music played a significant role there. You can PM me if you want me to really brag, but I am not going to put it out there right now, lol.

[StephanieZ]

In general, what I tell the parents of my students is that when a child has asked consistently for an instrument for at least 6 months, it's time to look for a good teacher, and when they've asked for 12 months, it's time to begin lessons. If the child wants to play, and is set on playing, then yes, it's worth it.

 

Ha, this is ONE way to do it, but Suzuki is very different IME. Many/most kids who start at traditional Suzuki age (3ish) are definitely led by the parents, not by an inner desire. Mine all were. :) I mean, how do they even know it is possible if not led there?

 

My kids were quite malleable. . . I just took them to lessons, and they took violin. It was fun, it was nice, it was good. It just WAS part of life. Just like anything else I expected. . . it was just what we did.

 

Since my oldest started at 3, my 2nd never remembered a time when Katie didn't take violin. . . and in fact, all 3 kids can't remember the time before they studied an instrument as they all started by 3.

 

It was such a routine that when my littlest was 20 mos old. . . the older two each moved up a size in violins. . . so, suddenly there were three violins in the house, big, medium, little. . . the next lesson day, the kids grabbed their violins and my 20# toddler marched over there, grabbed that out-grown tiny violin and insisted it was HERS. (She has a very strong spirit!) She had her first lesson that day and never stopped. :) Of course, not a lot of measurable progress was made those first couple years, but the seed was slowly growing. . . and did indeed flower. (We actually had to buy a 1/32 violin for her at that time, as the 1/16 that the other kids had started with was too large for her.)

[violinmom]

The box violin in the beginning isn't because the child may break the violin, it's to teach how to hold the violin, rest position, etc. It's a treat to get the "real" violin. Some kids are on the box longer than others.

 

Not all 3 year olds are ready, but many are. If the teacher you spoke to was a certified Suzuki teacher but never taught a 3 or 4 year old I would be suspicious. Are they certified or only using the materials?

 

How they do will depend mostly on the parent. Daily practicing, daily listening to the recordings are important. The same parent that attends lessons and takes notes must be the one that does the daily practicing. Also, don't be in a hurry. Sometimes they seem as if they aren't moving forward, but they are! There are so many things that have to get into place. Other times they will seem to fly through several pieces, only to have another stopping point.

 

I've had 2 1/2 year olds that were in book 4 by 5 or 6, and I have had the opposite as well. There are so many factors that play into it. It's not a competition to see who makes it to Vivaldi A minor the fastest!

 

Also, there are many fractional violins that sound great. My twins are on 16ths right now (Shar brand, surprisingly) and I am stunned at how great they sound!

[Sara in AZ]

The box violin in the beginning isn't because the child may break the violin, it's to teach how to hold the violin, rest position, etc. It's a treat to get the "real" violin. Some kids are on the box longer than others.

 

Not all 3 year olds are ready, but many are. If the teacher you spoke to was a certified Suzuki teacher but never taught a 3 or 4 year old I would be suspicious. Are they certified or only using the materials?

 

How they do will depend mostly on the parent. Daily practicing, daily listening to the recordings are important. The same parent that attends lessons and takes notes must be the one that does the daily practicing. Also, don't be in a hurry. Sometimes they seem as if they aren't moving forward, but they are! There are so many things that have to get into place. Other times they will seem to fly through several pieces, only to have another stopping point.

 

I've had 2 1/2 year olds that were in book 4 by 5 or 6, and I have had the opposite as well. There are so many factors that play into it. It's not a competition to see who makes it to Vivaldi A minor the fastest!

 

Also, there are many fractional violins that sound great. My twins are on 16ths right now (Shar brand, surprisingly) and I am stunned at how great they sound!

 

 

HaHa! I was just reading this thread thinking, "Is it time to start my 2 1/2 year old on violin?!" Surprise, ViolinMom teaches my 8 year old. I'd trust her. :001_smile:

[Lolly]

My almost three year old wants to start violin lessons. She follows me around the house wearing her coat and dragging mine, saying, "We go violin store now? I play violin now? I older now, I play violin?" She loves classical music, and can recognize the different instruments by ear and by sight, so it's not like she just saw a picture once and has a passing fancy. The kid definitely wants to learn.

 

As some of you know from my other posts, money is quite tight around here, so this would require saving and substantial investments from the grandparents, though they're willing to help cover her lessons, and to do the violin as a birthday present, bless them.

 

What I'm wondering, though, is if it's even worth having a three year old take lessons. We will almost certainly have more money a year or two from now- dh is doing work training through a local company and will either get hired on there or be able to use his newly-learned technical skills to get in elsewhere- and this would be much easier for us then. But if she really does want to learn, I don't want to shoot her down because of money, either.

 

I had her measured by a local violin teacher, and we're looking at a 1/16 size violin. I've read the quality on most of them is quite bad, but she could at least master the basics. We'd be using the Suzuki method. I did voice and clarinet in high school and college, so strings are like a foreign country for me.

 

Advice? Thoughts? Thanks!

 

There is no way I would start her now. I would go ahead and start saving for lessons later. She is 3. It can wait. Financial tightness leads to stress. I would never put that kind of stress on my family when it was not necessary. Take the money you would be spending on the lessons, save it in separate account, and you will be able to finance her music later. She isn't going to get anything out of starting at 3 that she wouldn't get at 4 or 5, or for that matter later. It just isn't worth the financial strain and risk.

[Greenmama2]

I have been giving her some very basic voice lessons too, which she seems to enjoy. Her sense of pitch and rhythm aren't great, which I worry about a bit. I don't know if learning an instrument would help improve her pitch, or if she would have difficulty learning in the first place. Of course, my mom said I couldn't carry a tune with a bucket until I was at least five.ith dd.

Find a preTwinkle class as PPs have suggested. A decent Suzuki teacher will start a three year old, but not unless they can sing a few songs in tune with decent rhythm. The good news is they do get more control of their voices closer to four/five just like your Mom said :)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

As some of you know from my other posts, money is quite tight around here, so this would require saving and substantial investments from the grandparents, though they're willing to help cover her lessons, and to do the violin as a birthday present, bless them.

 

 

 

Why not look for a basic violin teacher? Someone with patience.

 

My dd started violin at 6 and had an amazing teacher. He was expensive, basically $1/min, and we usually did 30 min per week.

 

When we moved I found a teacher who only charges $12 for 30 minutes, and dd will be starting again. As long as this new teacher can play the violin at a higher level than my dd, we're good to go!

 

ETA- DD has had 2 violins, both $99 and came with a music stand, bow, and a book. Nothing amazing but always worked fine for what we needed. She will not be getting a nice violin until she can use a full size, unless she stays with 3/4, then I'd get a nice 3/4.

 

DS is 6 and will be starting piano. Again I'm not concerned with the technique used, only the patience of the teacher and that he can play higher than ds.

Edited April 2, 2011 by amo_mea_filiis

[cdrumm4448]

Again I'm not concerned with the technique used, only the patience of the teacher and that he can play higher than ds.

 

I gently suggest that technique is extremely important, even at a young age. DS spent too much time in Book 1 because of a teacher that (I didn't realize at the time) didn't have the best technique and passed that on to my child. Once we switched teachers, we realized the problems he had developed. It has taken a semester and a half to attempt to eradicate them. Very frustrating for both of us.

 

If you do begin, practice every day (even if it's only for 5 minutes) right from the beginning. Establishes a good habit.

[snickelfritz]

I gently suggest that technique is extremely important, even at a young age. DS spent too much time in Book 1 because of a teacher that (I didn't realize at the time) didn't have the best technique and passed that on to my child. Once we switched teachers, we realized the problems he had developed. It has taken a semester and a half to attempt to eradicate them. Very frustrating for both of us.

 

I do agree. Our teacher (degreed in violin) suffered a form of carpal tunnel, because of an incorrect wrist position that no one corrected until college. So, correct positioning is one of her soapboxes.

[cdrumm4448]

I do agree. Our teacher (degreed in violin) suffered a form of carpal tunnel, because of an incorrect wrist position that no one corrected until college. So, correct positioning is one of her soapboxes.

 

Correct position is a constant problem in our house. I have taken to standing at the scroll and gently guiding wrists. My kids tend to close up their hands when extending 4th finger. It's going to take a long time to fix.