Addition & Subtraction Facts - Help!

[ccouch]

I am having some doubts about what we're doing and where we should be with math right now. Can anyone offer any advice for us?

 

DD is in 1st grade. We're half-way or better through Horizons 1.

We work with flash cards & drill (some), but she has very, very few of her basic addition and subtraction facts memorized. Should I be worried about this? This week I was wondering if we should just pause where we're at in the math book and buckle down with getting it down.

 

Maybe I'm not spending enough time focusing on helping her to learn these basic math facts? Maybe I'm worrying for no reason and it'll just come? Maybe you have some brilliant insight to help this momma? :lol:

[Chris in VA]

We use Saxon a year ahead, and honestly, we were still practicing math facts until 3rd grade.

Don't worry, just keep at it.

You can vary it a bit--use facts for copywork, play games, etc. Just be consistent.

 

Some math fact game ideas__

 

Make a lotto board (5X5 grid, for example) with answers on one side and math facts w/o answers on the other (so you can play two ways). Make cards (index cards cut in half or even quartered are fine) with answers on one side, problems on the other, then play the game by calling out and showing the cards. Child covers the right square on his grid--you can use candies for an extra treat! lol (We are rather big on treats at game time...)

 

Jump to the answer--Do you have an old Twister game? Great for putting a piece of sticky note paper on each circle and then jumping to the answer (tape down the mat). It's kinda like a giant lotto game, except you land on the answer and don't keep track. Or just use pieces of construction paper or whatever you have, tape them down, and jump to the answer. You can use this game for any question and answer thing--history, science, definitions, etc.

 

Clap the answer.

 

Tape answers around the room and move to the answer--walk, run, skip, hop, etc.

 

Try a game online, like those falling number games where the fact is at the top and they "shoot" the answer.

 

Outdoor facts--do the same things as above, but do it outdoors. You can even put numbers up on your house or garage and use a water gun to shoot the right answer.

 

Make it fun! Keep practicing.

 

We use drill sheets every. day. First we time how long it takes them, then we time how many they can do in a certain amt of time.

 

It'll come with practice.

[RahRah]

We use Saxon a year ahead, and honestly, we were still practicing math facts until 3rd grade.

Don't worry, just keep at it.

You can vary it a bit--use facts for copywork, play games, etc. Just be consistent.

 

Some math fact game ideas__

 

Make a lotto board (5X5 grid, for example) with answers on one side and math facts w/o answers on the other (so you can play two ways). Make cards (index cards cut in half or even quartered are fine) with answers on one side, problems on the other, then play the game by calling out and showing the cards. Child covers the right square on his grid--you can use candies for an extra treat! lol (We are rather big on treats at game time...)

 

Jump to the answer--Do you have an old Twister game? Great for putting a piece of sticky note paper on each circle and then jumping to the answer (tape down the mat). It's kinda like a giant lotto game, except you land on the answer and don't keep track. Or just use pieces of construction paper or whatever you have, tape them down, and jump to the answer. You can use this game for any question and answer thing--history, science, definitions, etc.

 

Clap the answer.

 

Tape answers around the room and move to the answer--walk, run, skip, hop, etc.

 

Try a game online, like those falling number games where the fact is at the top and they "shoot" the answer.

 

Outdoor facts--do the same things as above, but do it outdoors. You can even put numbers up on your house or garage and use a water gun to shoot the right answer.

 

Make it fun! Keep practicing.

 

We use drill sheets every. day. First we time how long it takes them, then we time how many they can do in a certain amt of time.

 

It'll come with practice.

 

:iagree:

 

DS is still memorizing the math facts too, well into doing second grade math.....a couple of things we do, in addition to the above suggestions:

 

In the car we do equations orally - just 10 to 15 at a time, sometimes random, sometimes sequential.

 

DS likes playing games, so I have an app on my iPad and iPhone that is digital flash cards that he likes to do when we're out and about and I need him occupied, as well as a couple of other math games.

[waa510]

We're still working on them but one thing that's helped so far is Rightstart's Math Card Games and Sum Swamp. I'll echo pp's recommendations to keep it fun. :001_smile:

[monalisa]

I have a 2nd grader who also doesn't have them all down cold. But she completely understands all the concepts we've covered. And she is learning her multiplication facts much easier for some reason than the +/- facts (because she already knows skip counting songs probably). I use the Abeka Speed Drills book, which I like because the drills are short (12 problems); it was very cheap and I'm glad I got it. I wish I'd used it in 1st grade. Last year I tried Calculadder, and it was nothing but torture and tears for us. We're also now going through the book Two Plus Two Is Not Five, and I wish I'd used that started it in K or 1st because it is good, systematic practice without being stressful. DD gets a chocolate chip (a big one) for every page she completes. That book has tiers associated with tricks to remember the facts, and the child practices the flash cards associated with that tier. Sometimes we play addition war with two sets of playing cards. I also own the Giggle Facts set of games, which my dd likes though we don't play those as much as we probably should (I do like them). I wouldn't stop your other math; just add in a few minutes a day of focused drill and make it fun if you can.

[myfatherslily]

I am having some doubts about what we're doing and where we should be with math right now. Can anyone offer any advice for us?

 

DD is in 1st grade. We're half-way or better through Horizons 1.

We work with flash cards & drill (some), but she has very, very few of her basic addition and subtraction facts memorized. Should I be worried about this? This week I was wondering if we should just pause where we're at in the math book and buckle down with getting it down.

 

Maybe I'm not spending enough time focusing on helping her to learn these basic math facts? Maybe I'm worrying for no reason and it'll just come? Maybe you have some brilliant insight to help this momma? :lol:

 

We're also using Horizons 1. Are you using the Teacher's Manual? They have you drill with flash cards almost every day. When we use the cards, I dump the box of cuisenaire rods on the table for DD to use if she doesn't know the answer. It's really helped her learn them, I think.

[poetic license]

Are you using a sufficient amount of concrete examples like hands-on manipulatives and real-life examples? If the student is just dealing with pure numbers it's harder to get the facts down vs. if they are really seeing them in action. We do a lot of visualizing number pairs in different ways. some examples:

 

 

• oral real life examples--when setting the table, etc.
  
• using toothpicks to make designs: so a square and triangle is 4+3=7
  
• teddy bear counters
  
• "some went hiding" game (as suggested in MM)
  
• math "war" with cards--play 2 cards instead of two, one with the highest sum wins
  
• cuisenaire rods
  
• number charts (like the multiplication tables except making it an addition table)
  
• number lines
  

 

etc. etc. Hope this helps. In Math Mammoth Maria Miller mentions that kids should usually have the addition facts down by 2nd grade, FWIW.

 

Also are you doing facts to 10 or 20? All you really need is facts to 10 because any other sum can be done using the basic facts to 10.

[guateangel]

All you really need is facts to 10 because any other sum can be done using the basic facts to 10.

 

Can you explain? I think I know what you mean but want to make sure.

 

 

Math is not my thing.

[Spy Car]

Maybe I'm not spending enough time focusing on helping her to learn these basic math facts? Maybe I'm worrying for no reason and it'll just come? Maybe you have some brilliant insight to help this momma? :lol:

 

Memorizing "math facts" from flash cards is about the worst possible way to "teach" math. It is fine for "review" but not for teaching. Better to learn re-grouping strategies (things like making 10s, 8+7=10+5), and playing math games (starting with things like "Go to the Dump" an RS game that teaches pairs that make "10") and by working out the sums with concrete manipulatives with things like Cuisenaire Rods or an AL Abacus.

 

Memorizing from flash cards leaps over a stage of learning that is similar to memorizing "sight words" without learning the underlying phonics. So the cart is ahead of the horse.

 

Bill

Edited March 5, 2011 by Spy Car

[guateangel]

(things like making 10s, 8+7=10+5),

 

Bill,

 

What program teaches math this way? We are doing MM but only in 1A/1B and I haven't seen this.

[Spy Car]

Bill,

 

What program teaches math this way? We are doing MM but only in 1A/1B and I haven't seen this.

 

Singapore teaches this way, Right Start adds re-grouping to 5s in addition to re-grouping to 10s, and it was my impression MM does this too (but I have not used MM).

 

Bill

[myfatherslily]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm NOT a math person), but doesn't using c-rods to add/subtract result in the same mental process? If I show my DD the flash card for 8+7, she will first line up those two rods. Below those, she'll lay a 10 and figure out what other rods she needs to match the 8+7, which is this case would be the 5. So she not only finds the answer of 15, but sees that 8+7=10+5.

[Spy Car]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm NOT a math person), but doesn't using c-rods to add/subtract result in the same mental process? If I show my DD the flash card for 8+7, she will first line up those two rods. Below those, she'll lay a 10 and figure out what other rods she needs to match the 8+7, which is this case would be the 5. So she not only finds the answer of 15, but sees that 8+7=10+5.

 

Yes. That is what makes it a good initial teaching tool. But these skills can be followed up with other means as the "concept" has sunk in. Waking though the re-grouping strategy sans rods (again, and again, and again) is a good follow up to rod play.

 

And games are a fun way to practice these skills.

 

A child should be able to explain "why" 8+7 is 15 and not just "know" that 8+7 is 15 without being able to explain "why." This seems like a small thing, but it's not. Knowing "why" reenforces place value and starts building a solid math foundation from the beginning. The other approach risks giving an impression of mastery that is illusory.

 

Bill

[SnMomof7]

MUS teaches like this too. "8 takes two to make ten (slurp, slurp - vacuum cleaner sound), five left, 10+5 = 15."

[kristinannie]

Memorizing "math facts" from flash cards is about the worst possible way to "teach" math. It is fine for "review" but not for teaching. Better to learn re-grouping strategies (things like making 10s, 8+7=10+5), and playing math games (starting with things like "Go to the Dump" an RS game that teaches pairs that make "10") and by working out the sums with concrete manipulatives with things like Cuisenaire Rods or an AL Abacus.

 

Memorizing from flash cards leaps over a stage of learning that is similar to memorizing "sight words" without learning the underlying phonics. So the cart is ahead of the horse.

 

Bill

 

 

:iagree:

 

Have you thought about supplementing with something like Miquon? I just started using it and LOVE IT. It helps the kids learn how math works without rote memorization. My son made some huge mathematical leaps today in the 30 minutes we worked on this program (and we haven't even used the worksheets yet). I couldn't believe what he started to understand conceptually that quickly. Cuisenaire rods are a great way to introduce addition and subtraction. Also, we have been known to use peas and carrots at dinner... :lol::lol::lol:

 

I think kindergarten and first are the times to conceptually understand math concepts. If she needs to count teddy bears or little circles (I got 200 for $2.99 on Rainbow Resource) every time she does addition, that's fine. I think memorization is only warranted AFTER kids learn conceptually how to add or subtract.

 

Of course, this is only my opinion and what I am planning for my DC. Definitely don't despair about the memorization going slowly if that is what you plan to continue. She might just not be ready for it.

[ccouch]

Thank you all so much for your advice here. It is so very appreciated!

 

You know, even though Horizons doesn't make mention of this, I've been teaching my DD to think of math in this way. 8+7 = 10+5 = 15. I wasn't taught that way, but it's what has always made sense to me, so I think that way. I honestly had no idea that there were teaching methods and curriculum that approached math from this way of thinking.

 

She is actually really good at doing this and when we talk about how she arrived at a certain answer, she always tells me about regrouping into 10s. Perhaps I'm doing something right, I just didn't realize it.

 

From reading your replies, I'm realizing that I need to pull out those Cuisenaire rods a little more often. I've not been using those nearly as much as I should.

 

Would you guys think that Miquon might be a good addition to our math studies? Any other recommendations?

[parias1126]

Bill,

 

What program teaches math this way? We are doing MM but only in 1A/1B and I haven't seen this.

 

Math U See and Math Mammoth both teach the facts this way.

[crazyforlatin]

Bill,

 

What program teaches math this way? We are doing MM but only in 1A/1B and I haven't seen this.

 

MM1B towards the end.

[justasque]

From reading your replies, I'm realizing that I need to pull out those Cuisenaire rods a little more often. I've not been using those nearly as much as I should.

 

Would you guys think that Miquon might be a good addition to our math studies? Any other recommendations?

 

I always had math manipulatives available to my kids at that age when we were doing math. They could choose to use them or not, as they needed. I also am big on fingers as math manipulatives - we have a base-ten system for a reason!

 

I am a huge Miquon fan, and I think it's ideal for just this kind of situation.

 

Memorizing "math facts" from flash cards is about the worst possible way to "teach" math. ... Memorizing from flash cards leaps over a stage of learning that is similar to memorizing "sight words" without learning the underlying phonics. So the cart is ahead of the horse. Bill

 

:iagree::iagree:

(We need an "I agree with what Spy Car said about math/Miquon" smiley icon thingy. 'Cause I think I've posted words to that effect three or four times recently. ;))

Edited March 6, 2011 by askPauline
Horrible spelling gaffe. Oh the shame!

[Rivka]

I agree with Bill. Having her model the problems with rods will result in much deeper understanding than flash card drill. I don't think you need to do Miquon, though. As you work through her regular math, or additional drill sheets if needed, let her use rods to figure anything she doesn't have memorized.

 

The other thing I have my daughter do is reason from facts she does know. "You don't know 5 plus 4 out of your head, so how can you figure it out? You know 4 plus 4, so 5 plus 4 must be..." This one is a really powerful tool.

[poetic license]

Can you explain? I think I know what you mean but want to make sure.

 

 

I think Bill's examples are a good way to understand it--basically you re-group the numbers so that the problem becomes one that you can solve using the 1-10 facts. Like Bill's example: 8+7=10+5

 

 

 

Would you guys think that Miquon might be a good addition to our math studies? Any other recommendations?

 

I'm also big Miquon fan so I'd say yes, but it depends how you feel about the C Rods--it seems like a love-hate thing for many.

 

Also, Math Mammoth worksheets are great for absorbing the facts because she has you doing them so many different ways.

 

(We need an "I agree with what Spy Car said about math/Miquon" smiley icon thingy. 'Cause I think I've posted words to that affect three or four times recently. ;))

 

LOL--I agree!

[RahRah]

Yes. That is what makes it a good initial teaching tool. But these skills can be followed up with other means as the "concept" has sunk in. Waking though the re-grouping strategy sans rods (again, and again, and again) is a good follow up to rod play.

 

And games are a fun way to practice these skills.

 

A child should be able to explain "why" 8+7 is 15 and not just "know" that 8+7 is 15 without being able to explain "why." This seems like a small thing, but it's not. Knowing "why" reenforces place value and starts building a solid math foundation from the beginning. The other approach risks giving an impression of mastery that is illusory.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

I'll add though that we've never used manipulates :001_huh:

 

Why?

 

DS "gets" math....for a while I did try to use manipulatives with him, but he wouldn't use them, he would answer from his head. He didn't use fingers either. From my own experience with math (I hated manipulatives and so did DH and we're both very good with math) I started to wonder how he "saw" the equations in his head, how he was solving them and finally asked him.

 

When he explained to me how he was solving the problems in his head, it was clear that he already had figured out how to re-group harder problems into easier pieces in his head - when he explained, for example, how he knew 8 + 6 = 14, he said it is, so I probed and asked why, and he said because six is 2+4, so 8+2 is 10 and then 4 more is 14. When I probed a bit more as to why he chose 2+4 for six, instead of 3+3, he said that combo made sense to get ten first. Somehow he worked this method out in his head - it wasn't something I specifically taught him.

 

I'm adding this only because while manipulatives work great as a tool for many, many kids - some are going to hate them and using them may stifle what they already understand in their head. I stopped trying to use manipulatives once I realized DS was visualizing in his head the re-ordering of numbers to reach his answers.

[nic633]

I'm loving this discussion, but all the acronyms are killing me!! What is MM? There are lots of acronyms and it gets frustrating to decipher. Help!

Tracey

[Guest 3jumpingbeans]

MM = Math Mammoth :001_smile:

[TXBeth]

Spy Car - if you're still here - can I ask you a question? We do all the manipulatives (c-rods, abacus, 10-frames, etc.) and my DD understand it well. She has her 10 number bonds down pat. However, she doesn't have all the rest memorized. She is familiar with them, but she may "count up" to figure out 5+3 instead of just knowing it. She gets them all within 5 seconds, but only 1-5, doubles, and 10s are instant. The rest she either counts up, counts down, or rearranges in her head (like she'll say "well, 5+5 is 10, so 5+4 is one less than 10, 9!)

 

In the Singapore 1A HIG, it says students should have all the addition and subtraction facts up to 10 memorized before starting the unit on addition between 10 & 20. Do you agree? Would you stop and just play with Miquon and drill math facts before moving on? (I already did move on, but now I'm wondering whether I should delay 1B until all the facts through 10 are at instant-response level).

 

Thanks for the input!

[Spy Car]

I'm adding this only because while manipulatives work great as a tool for many, many kids - some are going to hate them and using them may stifle what they already understand in their head. I stopped trying to use manipulatives once I realized DS was visualizing in his head the re-ordering of numbers to reach his answers.

 

It may surprise some people to read it, but we don't use manipulatives either for work that can be done in my son's mind. Things like C Rods were an extraordinary learning tool at the beginning stage of math awareness. Having a concrete way a visualizing numbers and even using rods to problem solve was a great tool at a specific stage of development.

 

But my son hasn't used C Rods to "calculate" in years, and he's not yet 7. So in case I might be misunderstood, I agree that it is time to put manipulatives aside when the child has acquired the skills to proceed without them. That is a goal, not to develop some sort of "reliance" on manipulatives. I never consciously took them away, so much as he didn't go for them for concepts and operations he understood. The transition was quite natural.

 

There have been only a few instances in recent memory where I broke out the rods to introduce concepts. One was to show how the Distributive Law could be used for problem solving in "multiplication" (an idea from the Miquon Lab Annotations). The other was to help introduce decimals, where the value of a base-10 "flat" (normally a 100 value) was changed to representing 1-Unit (or One). So Orange Rods (normally 1-Ten) were now 1-Tenth, and a White Rod (normally 1-Unit) was 1-Hundreth.

 

Being able to visualize decimals in this fashion was very helpful for my child, and this is a topic that is often difficult for children. But he "got it" quickly and the rods were soon retired until needed (or not needed) some future day.

 

They are simply tools to be used when needed or helpful, and ones to be stored when not. A long way of saying:

:iagree:

 

Bill

Edited May 10, 2011 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

Spy Car - if you're still here - can I ask you a question? We do all the manipulatives (c-rods, abacus, 10-frames, etc.) and my DD understand it well. She has her 10 number bonds down pat. However, she doesn't have all the rest memorized. She is familiar with them, but she may "count up" to figure out 5+3 instead of just knowing it. She gets them all within 5 seconds, but only 1-5, doubles, and 10s are instant. The rest she either counts up, counts down, or rearranges in her head (like she'll say "well, 5+5 is 10, so 5+4 is one less than 10, 9!)

 

In the Singapore 1A HIG, it says students should have all the addition and subtraction facts up to 10 memorized before starting the unit on addition between 10 & 20. Do you agree? Would you stop and just play with Miquon and drill math facts before moving on? (I already did move on, but now I'm wondering whether I should delay 1B until all the facts through 10 are at instant-response level).

 

Thanks for the input!

 

I can only say that we were in a very similar situation in 1A, and in a certain sense still are. Personally I did not agree with the HIG about the memorization of math facts and stopping until they were "automatic." It was (and is) advice that doesn't fully make sense to me. We use Singapore math in large measure because we want our children to have a very strong facility for manipulating numbers--a scaleable skill that goes far beyond the ability to simply memorize.

 

To me building those skills takes practice. It is like exercise for the mind. Having to work for the answers at this age is a "positive" rather than a "negative" as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure this puts me in a minority position. But I'm seeing success beyond my highest expectations with the route we've taken.

 

We moved on from 1A without having the "math facts" down cold. He was rarely wrong (that would have been an issue) but the answers were rarely "automatic" and took some sort of mental calculation. And when the answer came "too fast" (and often even when they didn't) I would (and still do) ask him to explain the strategy used to solve the problem. A "correct answer" alone without being able to explain it was "zero credit." This has been a boon for us.

 

We have played RS games, he has math games for the iPad, and has had plenty of practice getting fast at the "math facts." But we have never drilled. It may happen eventually (when it is not needed, except for speed) but he is fast already, and I think the "slow way" of actually working to get answers pays dividends over the fast way of memorizing math facts (which strikes me as a short-cut with downsides). Minority option I'm sure.

 

But for me the proof is in the pudding. At not quite 7 years old my son is very quick adding and subtracting 3 digit numbers in his head. Even complex computations that involve re-grouping (and would have lead me to "borrowing and carrying" on paper when I was a kid, and not at 6) are easily solved mentally. My wife is amazed these days that he can calculate these kinds of equations so much faster than she can.

 

So you will need to follow your "inner-intelligence" on this one. My advice will fall into the category of "contrarian" opinion. But if your daughter is happy, and thriving, and able to apply strategies to get correctly reasoned answers I would call that a "victory" and move on in the skill building and practice. You think she won't get "automatic" with 5+3? of course you do, or you would not be asking. Right?

 

My advice, play games. Addition games and subtraction games. Children then to love these. It sharpens the speed without drill and gets to to the same place. But move along.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

Bill

Edited May 10, 2011 by Spy Car

[AngelBee]

I am having some doubts about what we're doing and where we should be with math right now. Can anyone offer any advice for us?

 

DD is in 1st grade. We're half-way or better through Horizons 1.

We work with flash cards & drill (some), but she has very, very few of her basic addition and subtraction facts memorized. Should I be worried about this? This week I was wondering if we should just pause where we're at in the math book and buckle down with getting it down.

 

Maybe I'm not spending enough time focusing on helping her to learn these basic math facts? Maybe I'm worrying for no reason and it'll just come? Maybe you have some brilliant insight to help this momma? :lol:

Math games! That is what has really been gelling things for ds6 and dd4. There are TONS of options. I just googled. If you'd like I can post some to get you started. :)

[AngelBee]

Memorizing "math facts" from flash cards is about the worst possible way to "teach" math. It is fine for "review" but not for teaching. Better to learn re-grouping strategies (things like making 10s, 8+7=10+5), and playing math games (starting with things like "Go to the Dump" an RS game that teaches pairs that make "10") and by working out the sums with concrete manipulatives with things like Cuisenaire Rods or an AL Abacus.

 

Memorizing from flash cards leaps over a stage of learning that is similar to memorizing "sight words" without learning the underlying phonics. So the cart is ahead of the horse.

 

Bill

:iagree:We are usng math games AFTER they really grasp the concepts to review.

[TXBeth]

I can only say that we were in a very similar situation in 1A, and in a certain sense still are. Personally I did not agree with the HIG about the memorization of math facts and stopping until they were "automatic." It was (and is) advice that doesn't fully make sense to me. We use Singapore math in large measure because we want our children to have a very strong facility for manipulating numbers--a scaleable skill that goes far beyond the ability to simply memorize.

 

To me building those skills takes practice. It is like exercise for the mind. Having to work for the answers at this age is a "positive" rather than a "negative" as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure this puts me in a minority position. But I'm seeing success beyond my highest expectations with the route we've taken.

 

We moved on from 1A without having the "math facts" down cold. He was rarely wrong (that would have been an issue) but the answers were rarely "automatic" and took some sort of mental calculation. And when the answer came "too fast" (and often even when they didn't) I would (and still do) ask him to explain the strategy used to solve the problem. A "correct answer" alone without being able to explain it was "zero credit." This has been a boon for us.

 

We have played RS games, he has math games for the iPad, and has had plenty of practice getting fast at the "math facts." But we have never drilled. It may happen eventually (when it is not needed, except for speed) but he is fast already, and I think the "slow way" of actually working to get answers pays dividends over the fast way of memorizing math facts (which strikes me as a short-cut with downsides). Minority option I'm sure.

 

But for me the proof is in the pudding. At not quite 7 years old my son is very quick adding and subtracting 3 digit numbers in his head. Even complex computations that involve re-grouping (and would have lead me to "borrowing and carrying" on paper when I was a kid, and not at 6) are easily solved mentally. My wife is amazed these days that he can calculate these kinds of equations so much faster than she can.

 

So you will need to follow your "inner-intelligence" on this one. My advice will fall into the category of "contrarian" opinion. But if your daughter is happy, and thriving, and able to apply strategies to get correctly reasoned answers I would call that a "victory" and move on in the skill building and practice. You think she won't get "automatic" with 5+3? of course you do, or you would not be asking. Right?

 

My advice, play games. Addition games and subtraction games. Children then to love these. It sharpens the speed without drill and gets to to the same place. But move along.

 

Those are my thoughts.

 

Bill

 

Thank you! DD actually loves math, the games, the problems, the manipulatives, anything.......except drilling facts. Break out the flash cards, and the whining starts. Pull out a speed drill and her body turns to jelly. She does not like being rushed, and any kind of math fact drill feels like pressure to her. My instinct was to just continue to move on, that she will get faster naturally as she does the problems over and over. I think I just needed someone to tell me that was okay, so thanks!

[Spy Car]

Thank you! DD actually loves math, the games, the problems, the manipulatives, anything.......except drilling facts. Break out the flash cards, and the whining starts. Pull out a speed drill and her body turns to jelly. She does not like being rushed, and any kind of math fact drill feels like pressure to her. My instinct was to just continue to move on, that she will get faster naturally as she does the problems over and over. I think I just needed someone to tell me that was okay, so thanks!

 

My pleasure.

 

I remember once reading an article by Dr Joan Cotter (the author of Right Start math) where she spoke to the issue of drill. Her first point was that the only children who "enjoy" drill are those that don't need it. I think it is possible that this is a slight over-statement, and there may be a few kids who love " drill" and need it, but this is more the exception than the rule. And her second point is that children who learn in a "happy environment" do better than those who are "stressed." I have no doubts about that.

 

There are too many fun ways to build these skills (games, etc) to resort to spirit killing means. Math phobia is a major problem in education. A much bigger worry in my mind that the speed at which math fact automaticity is achieved. Plus, as I said, I think the "work" at this age is a virtue and not a "problem."

 

I'm glad I could affirm what your own inner-intelligence was telling you. Listen to that voice because you know your child better than anyone else. Me included.

 

Best wishes in your math adventure!

 

Bill

Edited May 10, 2011 by Spy Car
Brain fog

[Miss Tick]

A timely thread for me! We are finishing up K and I just this morning printed some speed drill sheets to see where we stand. My concern was that not all the facts are automatic yet. I think I will still try them out to see how the dc do, and how they feel about speed drills, but frankly I would rather spend some regular time over the summer and next year playing more GAMES and just letting that stuff develop naturally.

 

Thanks! You all just nipped my burgeoning concern in the bud by addressing it and lighting a path forward. :001_smile:

[VBoulden]

I also have a six year old who is also in the first grade. She knows all her addition facts by heart and we have NEVER, EVER, EVER drilled or used flashcards, etc. :confused: I have been really surprised and confused by this.. I was expecting to have to use flashcards because, well, how else would she learn her math facts??? But, we have been using Math U See (the Primer first and now we are in Alpha) and she has never needed to use flashcards, as incredible as that sounds... I don't know if this is typical. I don't know anything about Horizons verses Math U See... I've never seen Horizons. But I don't think my daughter is especially gifted in math (Is that wrong to say??? ;):D) but Math U See seems to have done such an excellent job of explaining addition that she can do it SO fast in her head she just always KNOWS the answer right away. I submit this humbly. I used Math U See on a tip from my sister in law who loved it first... and so far, I have loved the results. We don't ever hate doing math, we never drill the facts, but my daughter knows everything just as well as if we did. :001_huh:

Edited May 10, 2011 by VBoulden

[BeachyMum]

I just posted in another thread....our two best tools have been the Flashmaster - a sort of video game for memorizing math facts (up to multiplication/division tables - and the CC Math Memory work songs.

[Heidi]

I just posted in another thread....our two best tools have been the Flashmaster - a sort of video game for memorizing math facts (up to multiplication/division tables - and the CC Math Memory work songs.

 

:iagree: I love flashmaster. My dd7 needs serious review with her facts. We're nearing the end of MM 1b and her inability to come up with the answer to simple math problems without using her fingers or drawing pictures is really slowing her down. Like 2+3; she cannot see this in her head at all at the end of 1st grade. Maybe this is normal??? I do know math does not come easily to her.

 

So instead of flashcards I bought the flashmaster and I LOVE it. I assign her 4-5 different "games" to play a day that work on a certain level or math fact, and off she goes. She writes down her scores and we're done. When her scores start getting really good, I up the difficulty a little.

 

I love that I don't have to mess with the flashcards myself. I lose my patience with her too easily on this one. Flashmaster has released me from the flashcards and keeps math a happier subject for everyone.

[MelissaMom]

I haven't read all of this thread, but wanted to say that computer games have really helped my kids to master their math facts. A new one I LOVE is MathRider. You can do addition/subtraction/mult/div. Its not cheap (on sale for $37) but worth it for all those functions in one game.

 

And I just found out Timez Attack is coming out with addition and subtraction by Christmas. My 6 year old know more multiplication facts than addition/subtraction JUST because she loves this game so much!

[Abigail4476]

Using manipulatives is a GREAT way to learn Math, but I agree with Bill - it phases out after awhile. What's great about kids *seeing* Math is that it creates a deeper understanding that makes higher Math even easier to grasp. My ds8 hasn't done multiplication or division yet, but he already understands the concepts and routinely multiplies and divides IRL.

 

That said, I learned math through memorization (of tables and rules), and I did fine with advanced Math; however, relearning it with my kids using manipulatives has created several aha moments for me as an adult. Things that in school I simply memorized and did "just because" actually make sense now. It became more enjoyable. :)

[BeachyMum]

I lose my patience with her too easily on this one. Flashmaster has released me from the flashcards and keeps math a happier subject for everyone.

 

YES, YES, YES!

 

My dc's are close in age, so they can now 'play' flash cards with each other...but I love that Flashmaster times/tracks scores and has a very clear display with the problem and answer. We don't do video games, so I was hesitant...but it's not video 'gamey' at all...it looks like it was designed by a real math geek, which makes me very happy.

[janainaz]

We use Saxon a year ahead, and honestly, we were still practicing math facts until 3rd grade.

Don't worry, just keep at it.

You can vary it a bit--use facts for copywork, play games, etc. Just be consistent.

 

Some math fact game ideas__

 

Make a lotto board (5X5 grid, for example) with answers on one side and math facts w/o answers on the other (so you can play two ways). Make cards (index cards cut in half or even quartered are fine) with answers on one side, problems on the other, then play the game by calling out and showing the cards. Child covers the right square on his grid--you can use candies for an extra treat! lol (We are rather big on treats at game time...)

 

Jump to the answer--Do you have an old Twister game? Great for putting a piece of sticky note paper on each circle and then jumping to the answer (tape down the mat). It's kinda like a giant lotto game, except you land on the answer and don't keep track. Or just use pieces of construction paper or whatever you have, tape them down, and jump to the answer. You can use this game for any question and answer thing--history, science, definitions, etc.

 

Clap the answer.

 

Tape answers around the room and move to the answer--walk, run, skip, hop, etc.

 

Try a game online, like those falling number games where the fact is at the top and they "shoot" the answer.

 

Outdoor facts--do the same things as above, but do it outdoors. You can even put numbers up on your house or garage and use a water gun to shoot the right answer.

 

Make it fun! Keep practicing.

 

We use drill sheets every. day. First we time how long it takes them, then we time how many they can do in a certain amt of time.

 

It'll come with practice.

 

:iagree:

 

Great ideas. I agree, just keep at it and keep practicing. Don't freak out, just work at it a little bit every day and make it fun.

[Sahamamama]

I haven't read the other posts, but I'll chime in anyway.

 

A few things I would do:

 

 

1. Focus on addition only, until she has mastered more addition facts. Subtraction will come through learning addition.
   
2. Watch Maria Miller's videos on how to do STRUCTURED drills for math facts. Her whole website is EXCELLENT, as are her Math Mammoth products (which we use).
   
3. Work through Kumon Simple Addition and Kumon Addition this year, then perhaps Kumon Simple Subtraction next year. These books have helped cement most of the facts for my 1st grader.
   
4. Listen to these fun math fact songs. She might be the kind of kid who learns best from setting it all to music. That's my kid, and she loves these songs. Sometimes when she's doing her math work, I hear her humming the tunes, so I know she has the facts in her head from listening to these songs. :001_smile:
   

 

HTH.

[Crimson Wife]

My DS is loving Mindware's Addition Adventures and Subtraction Secrets for facts practice. He loves the "map" aspect.

[twoforjoy]

I am having some doubts about what we're doing and where we should be with math right now. Can anyone offer any advice for us?

 

DD is in 1st grade. We're half-way or better through Horizons 1.

We work with flash cards & drill (some), but she has very, very few of her basic addition and subtraction facts memorized. Should I be worried about this? This week I was wondering if we should just pause where we're at in the math book and buckle down with getting it down.

 

Maybe I'm not spending enough time focusing on helping her to learn these basic math facts? Maybe I'm worrying for no reason and it'll just come? Maybe you have some brilliant insight to help this momma? :lol:

 

I've wondered about this myself. My son just started second grade, and I've been concerned that he isn't great with his math facts. He's really, really good with mental math--out of nowhere he'll tell us things like "Hey, twenty-four plus twelve equals thirty-six!" and we're always surprised at how much math he can figure out--but when it comes to responding to facts drills, he gets really flustered. I mean, sometimes with even really simple things like 3-2, he'll just get a deer-in-headlights look. The thing is, if he stopped to actually think about it, he'd get it in a second. But when he's asked to simply recall it, he freezes up.

 

We're working through the Rod & Staff second grade math program right now, which I'm hoping might help him to really get his facts down. (It's not my favorite math program, though, and I doubt we'll use it next year. He goes Miquon as a supplement to satisfy his conceptual side.) But I also think maybe I need to ease up a bit and not put him on the spot so much about it. I don't know.

[Spy Car]

I've wondered about this myself. My son just started second grade, and I've been concerned that he isn't great with his math facts. He's really, really good with mental math--out of nowhere he'll tell us things like "Hey, twenty-four plus twelve equals thirty-six!" and we're always surprised at how much math he can figure out--but when it comes to responding to facts drills, he gets really flustered. I mean, sometimes with even really simple things like 3-2, he'll just get a deer-in-headlights look. The thing is, if he stopped to actually think about it, he'd get it in a second. But when he's asked to simply recall it, he freezes up.

 

 

Proof that with many young children (who are good at math) "drill" leads to stress/anxiety which causes them to "freeze." This can lead to math phobia. Why risk it when there are fun means to achieve the same (or actually better) ends?

 

Bill

[Virg]

I am sure I am a horrible mom for this but can I just say i HATE the math games? I hated them as a child and I still do now. I am not sure what my issue is, I guess I was just like let's learn it and be done. I loved math I just didn't think the games were fun at all. This means of course that my DC just LOVE them! :001_smile: After reading this thread I am going to make a much bigger effort to play them more often and try to keep some of math fun.

 

I would try to get my DH to do play the games with the kids but he is the same way as I. At work he has to plan incentive games for his reps and he can't stand it. He thinks they should work because they get paid LOL Hey! Maybe my DSS would.... Off to find out!