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I have posted numerous times with regard to my DD8 who struggles with math. I have thought she has a math disability. We have no health insurance so I utilized the public school system for testing. She has just finished her testing and I have spoken to the school psychologist who says her math scores are extremely low and she definitely sees a math disability. The meeting with their "team" has not yet happened so she didn't want to give me anymore details as of yet since it is supposed to be done as a "team" with the others that have tested her in other areas.

 

The public school system in my State only offers help if the child needs speech therapy as a homeschooler. I have really been contemplating the idea of putting her in the public school thinking they have the resources to really help her as far as a math disability or any other disability they may find (reading, etc.)

 

Anyway, if you were in my position, would you still keep your child at home and try other strategies (even if you feel you have tried everything) or would you register your DC in the public school to receive the help needed?

Edited by parias1126
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If I were in your position, I would keep my child home.

 

My dd struggles in math and is about 6 months behind her peers. I used the ACE online diagnostic test and purchased the math PACES that it recommended. She loves them. She is learning!!!! Math is no longer a struggle.

 

The online diagnostic tests are free. And the PACES don't have grade labels...so if that would bother her then not having a label may help her.

 

If you decided to put her in school, I wonder if she wouldn't fall behind in other subjects...if she struggles with math, perhaps the teachers would assume she struggled in all subjects? I dont' know, but the thought crossed my mind so I thought I'd share. To me it would be better to work at home in the subject she struggles with. And you know, maybe she just isn't ready for the concepts that are in her current math?

Edited by Alyeska
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I hesitate to answer here, since I have never faced a similar situation. However, my first thought was that I would want to attend the "team" meeting to find out specifics, and then really do some research on my own. It may be that there are things you can do to help your dd without needing to put her into public school. I see that you don't have insurance, but maybe you could try to find someone willing to work with your child outside of the school system (like an occupational therapist I think they are called??) to give you a plan and some strategies, and then you do the work at home. I would be concerned about the stigma your daughter might feel, entering public school. It may be that your daughter really needs the help the school offers, but it is early and I'd want to know alot more details before I commited to public school.

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Since we do utilize the public school system a bit in out children's education, I'm certainly not opposed to it. But... I'd want to find out what kind of intervention they proposed. If all that they could offer was a once-a-week pull-out class, I don't think I'd bother. If there was a particular math class for kids with learning disabilities taught by a trained special ed teacher, I'd go and check it out. Anyway, I'd go to the IEP and see what the public school system had to offer and talk to a lot of people locally and decide then.

 

If nothing else comes of it, maybe you can get some good ideas at the IEP meeting for things you can do at home?

Edited by Momling
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my kids really struggle in math as well. we are using math mammoth and they are using two levels behind their "grade" levels. I started homeschooling this year. We just work at their own pace. You won't find that in public school. I ran into a lot of "well you can work with them at home on the stuff they are falling behind with" from their math teachers. Well if that's the case why wouldn't I just homeschool?? So that's what I'm doing.

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I can relate to where you're coming from. My oldest has always struggled with math to the point where I've also wondered if he has some sort of disability. He has gotten a little better now that but there are still times we struggle.

 

You mentioned that you had posted about your math concerns in some prior posts. I went and looked at those so I could better understand where you're coming from. In one of them you mentioned being dissatisfied with how the ps system worked with your oldest daughter. Maybe it would help to write out a list of all the things you remember that frustrated you about that situation. For me, I'll have all these thoughts swirling around in my head but if I get them on paper where I can look at them one a time, it helps me see things more clearly. Maybe you'll see something there that will make you say, "Oh, I forgot about that. No way am I going through that again!" Even if nothing dramatic stands out to you, at least you'll have an idea of what concerns you might want to discuss with the IEP people.

 

I've come to a place where I accept that math may never be my son's strong point. Don't take me wrong, I'm not giving up on him, but it's just not where he shines. So he does his math, I help him as needed, and we move on. He has a set time limit -- at 13 he must work on math for 45 minutes, when he was 8, I would have had him work for 20 or 25 minutes. If you decide to keep her home maybe you could try something like that. You'll probably have to sit with her for that amount of time, and help her when she get stuck, but at least you'll both know "it's only until the timer goes off." The rest of day you can focus on all the other things you want to cover and she can do some of the things where she truly shines.

 

Whatever you decide, try not to make your decision based on fear. If you decide to enroll her in ps, have it be because you believe that is where she will get the best support she needs to learn, not because you're afraid that you're failing her. You love her and want what's best for her. You haven't failed her in any way :grouphug:.

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My oldest never did well in math.... tried all sorts of curricula. Finally... when they (I keep the girls together in the younger one's grade level) were around 4th grade I went back to square one.

 

I took my girls and put them into MUS Alpha... supplemented with Math-It a couple of times a week. The girls worked quickly through Alpha and Beta and started on Gamma when we switched back to Saxon 54. By the time we finished that school year the girls had just about completed Saxon 54. This year I put them into Saxon 76 and they are doing very well.... A's and B's. My oldest one has surprised me by consistently doing as well as girl #2 (she's very mathy)!!

 

I never thought my oldest would "get it"......... she was HORRIBLE!!! in math... simply HORRIBLE!!! (I can't emphasize that enough). I was at my wits end! Someone on here wrote about similar struggles with their child and they just stopped and went back to square one.... and that was key for me. I suddenly relaxed and we just calmly went back to square one.... and it worked.

 

I thought about putting them in PS and letting the system take control...I was afraid of failing, I guess. I didn't want the responsibility. Some how though, I decided what was important.... that my child learned to work through the challenges and learn the material. She has come through this with flying colors...... ...so have I. :tongue_smilie: It took me jumping off the hamster wheel of other people's (and my) expectations and letting the child take the time she needed to learn the material.

 

Somewhere I read that all the math a child learns from Kindy through 8th grade can be learned in a matter of months. I like that....

Edited by PamInMN
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Chiming in as a former teacher, not as a parent. I know how frustrated and concerned you must feel as the parent, wanting to give you child every best opportunity, so I cannot begin to tell you what to do.

 

But my experience in the public schools...both elementary schools and middle schools, is this: once a child has a learning disability in the ps, it is really hard, if not impossible, to get out of the special ed track. Even if your daughter caught up at some point, she would probably have a hard time assimilating back into the "normal" track.

 

I would second the suggestion of getting more specifics from the "team". But I think I would tend to keep her home...even if she never is totally caught up. Keeping her home allows you to strengthen her strong skills more.

 

I hope you end up with clarity in your decision and peace. Raising kids sure is hard work....emotionally!

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I am new to all of this but can relate as my dd8struggles with math. I understand wanting to give your dd the best opportunity in overcoming her math 'disability'. My dd is 1 yr. behind her peers and we are working at her pace (as slow and frustrating as this is). One day it clicks, the next she forgets what she learned the prior day. :svengo:

 

I, too, see that math may never be her strong point and I've come to peace with this very real possibility. We work on 2 Math Mammoth worksheets each day (takes 45 min.), play a math game and focus more on her strong points; reading and LA. Unfortunately, RS didn't work for us; whereas MM has been good. We will work through the summer on math, as well.

 

I know, for us, if I put my dd back in PS she would fall even more behind and her confidence would be shot. She knows she struggles in math and PS would only put a spot light on her 'disibiility'. I would also be concerned that she would fall behind in her other subjects. She was in PS last year and we are still trying to play catch up and build up her confidence where PS failed her.

 

I would, without question, continue moving forward with what you are doing (maybe give MM a try :) )and keep her home with you.

 

:grouphug:

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I would meet with the team to find out what they suggest. I'd ask very specifically how any suggested "therapies" would help. It may well be that they won't offer anything more concrete than remedial math help, in which case she's probably better off working one-on-one at home with you. If that's what they offer, see if they can explain how they go about that - I don't see any reason you can't benefit from whatever teaching tips they might have to offer.

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My experience with the public schools is that rather than trying to remediate lds, they accommodate them. That means they give the student a seat in the front row, more time for tests, permission to use a calculator, etc., but they don't really help them with their learning problems. They just pass them on with vastly lower expectations than they do typical students. I'm sure there must be schools that do a better job, but I live in an area where the education system is rated very highly and yet they do very little to help children with special needs.

 

So, no, I would not put a child in school who has lds. This is the child I would keep at home at all costs and I would spend lots of time researching remediation programs for their specific disability.

 

I think it's great that you were able to take advantage of the school's testing services to try to get an idea of what is going on. I would use that as a guide to help find resources that could help your child.

 

Lisa

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As someone who tutors many students in math (and reading) my experience with the students who come to me is that generally once they start struggling they are given calculators. This doesn't do a lot to help with number sense and really developing an understanding of math and algebraic concepts.

 

Many students I'm able to work with them where they are (7th graders learning about regrouping, long divisision for example) so that what they are expected to learn comes easier to them.

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I know, for us, if I put my dd back in PS she would fall even more behind and her confidence would be shot. She knows she struggles in math and PS would only put a spot light on her 'disibiility'. I would also be concerned that she would fall behind in her other subjects. She was in PS last year and we are still trying to play catch up and build up her confidence where PS failed her.

 

This is my biggest concern because this is exactly what happened with my oldest daughter in the public school system. When I pulled her out in 4th grade, she literally had no self-esteem left. My DD8 though is much more confident then my oldest ever was as a child. The only reason I have been contemplating the whole idea is that the school system in the State I am currently in seems much more focused on the child then they did when I lived in Florida. When I lived in Florida, it was a nightmare. I know someone else had mentioned they read a prior post about my oldest daughter and that was a completely different school system in another State. Not that it matters much...the public school is just that...the public school. :glare:

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If I were in your position, I would unquestionably educate her at home.

 

:iagree: My dd is dyslexic and it greatly affects her ability to do math well. She has been about a year behind for the last 4 years but is finally starting to pull ahead. I'm hoping by next fall she'll be caught up. Seriously though, I don't sweat it. She is where she is and as long as she's working diligently and understanding the material before moving on, I'm satisfied.

 

I'd keep working with her slowly but surely and letting her progress as she's able and not worry too much about whether she's behind. Everyone progresses at a different pace. :grouphug:

Edited by Paintedlady
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:iagree: My dd is dyslexic and it greatly affects her ability to do math well. She has been about a year behind for the last 4 years but this is finally starting to pull ahead. I'm hoping by next fall she'll be caught up. Seriously though, I don't sweat it. She is where she is and as long as she's working diligently and understanding the material before moving on, I'm satisfied.

 

I'd keep working with her slowly but surely and letting her progress as she's able and not worry too much about whether she's behind. Everyone progresses at a different pace. :grouphug:

 

I have questioned whether she had dyslexia or not. There are a TON of reversals in math and reading and she still can not tell the difference between "b" and "d". The problem is that she does not retain anything either. Just this morning at the homeschool store, she wanted a pencil. She says, "Mom, they are 25 cents". I said, "We will get you some of those cool pencils if you can tell me how many you can get for $1.00". Her answer: "20!" So I had to remind her that a quarter was the same as 25 cents. I then asked her how many quarters were in $1.00. She couldn't tell me. I had to remind her again to count by 25's. I start... "25...." She says, "25, 50, 75, $1". I had to explain to her to count the amount of pencils she could get with her fingers as she said, "25, 50, 75, $1". Finally she responded, "I am getting 4 pencils!!" and went on to pick her cool pencils.

 

But this is everyday. She can not retain the information. At the end of last year she learned subtraction and regrouping with MUS. She had absolutely no clue what to do when I went over it again. At the end of last year, she was completely getting it. I know it has been a long while and its normal that she would forget, but it is for every single math concept...including simple math facts. She literally can not memorize her math facts. Even after going through all of MUS Alpha, she still uses her fingers for EVERYTHING.

 

I guess I am just frustrated. This is not the first time I have gone through this. I have been homeschooling since my oldest was in 4th grade. She just graduated and is getting ready to do remedial classes at the community college for math. She only made it through to Algebra 1 and did it for 2 years. I finally realized she was never going to be able to go any further at home so I just graduated her so she could continue on to the college at 17 years old.

 

Anyway, this is the 2nd child I am going through this with and I just feel like I'm doing it all over again. I am just so frazzled and frustrated and its weighing me down. I do know sending her to the public school may not be best for her. I am going to do what someone had suggested and see what it is that the "team" decides. If they are going to be pulling her out of class once a week to give her a bit of extra help, that will definitely not fly with me. I would much rather try the Sylvan approach or continue to work with her at home at her own pace.

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I would personally keep them home. It is going to be hard either way. Being in school and labeled special needs, if they will even give that accommodation, is not going to be a good place to be socially. She is going to get picked on even if she gets the helps she needs.

 

My oldest is dyscalculic. She is gifted in language, grammar, reading and comprehension, but math? On a good day she nails it. On a bad day? Well we covered exponents and square roots two years ago. She has nailed them from day one. Last week we came back to them and I retaught them to her. She did half of her assignment the next morning and nailed it. She did the other half the next day and she had her brain crossed wires. She wrote every square root out as an exponent and then solved them for exponents. So the square root of 25 became 25x25. That night, after I corrected her work, I called her down and asked her, "What is the square root of 25?" She glared at me and started to tell me she isn't going to do 25x25 in her head. I stopped her short and told her, "You know the answer already and it is easy, what is the square root of 25?" She looked at me and the light bulb went off. She didn't give me the answer, but she did tell me she did all of her work wrong. The wires uncrossed and the bad rut she was stuck on was reset. My goal was to re-set her thinking, she didn't have to answer the question.

 

In general she scores well on the conceptual side of math, when tested, but she doesn't do as well on the computation side. Most kids are the opposite. They can do the math but they don't know why. She knows why but she can't consistently apply it.

 

I use Right Start because it does a very good job of explaining why math works the way it does with physical, concrete objects. Nothing abstract except the visualization work (which I think is key), but even that starts with the concrete. That said there isn't anything close to enough practice for a LD child. I use Singapore for additional practice because it is my first love in math programs, but honestly I think something like Math Mammon would probably be a better or at least easier choice for struggling kids. In general LD kids need to over learn something. Do it till they can do it automatically without thinking, then their wires don't have a chance of getting crossed, KWIM?

 

On Cloud Nine (OCN) might be another key program to look into. It works on developing visualization abilities for doing math, so they can see and do math in their mind. It can be used as a stand alone program or you can just buy the manual and use it with any other math program. I am using the language version, called Seeing Stars, with my 3rd dd and ds. I just bought the manual and apply the work to AAS. The visualization work in Right Start was enough for my dd. I didn't need OCN for her.

 

For Algebra prep I am using Hands on Equations, because it brings the conceptual into concrete physical terms. That said they problems overwhelm her when she tries to do them on her own. They are long story problems. I am doing one with her a day. With me sitting there it gives her enough of a confidence boost that she isn't overwhelmed and can usually quickly do the problem without any help from me. I just sit there. :blink: Such is my life.

 

Technically she can do algebra, but again only if I am sitting there. Otherwise she becomes overwhelmed and freezes. This is a mental thing. She has to know she knows it. I can't fix this. This isn't developmental either. It is a part of being dyslexic. It is just going to take time and very small steps for her to figure out that she does know it and can do it on her own. Right now I have her doing Lia's Basic College Math, which is all review, but she needs the practice, she needs to know she knows it.

 

My advice would mirror Pam's. Start over at the beginning. Make sure she understands why, but then also make sure she gets a lot of practice and review. Review why as needed. My oldest has two math dictionaries on her desk to use to look up how to do concepts. I also have 3x5 cards where I have written out the math key words for story problems. She also has an example of how to do multiplication, and long division so she can refer to them as needed and I have a lot of detail, like I show in this post. It makes no logical leaps, so she can look and make sense of it and apply it to a different problem. I also need to make up cards for fractions, and such. These are all tools, and she doesn't use them as much as she should. Sometimes she doesn't even know she needs them. Most of the time when she does she would prefer to ask me in person, which is fine too. But she has them to help her, if she decides to use them.

 

I suspect she gets this from Dh. He is a smart guy who writes device drivers for computers but only just finished Algebra I in High School. He does well with any math he has to use on a constant basis and that he understand why it works. He absolutely can't use a formula without understanding why it works. I have tried he just can't. Despite this he did graduate from college and he does have an excellent job. There is hope.

 

My advice is to not worrying about being behind, and worry about mastering the basics, taking one step at a time. It is going to be slow. It will drive you nuts. But the best thing for your child is to have a safe environment in which to learn and someone who isn't afraid to keep working on it with them, no matter how many times they get their wires crossed.

 

Just keep swimming....

 

Heather

Edited by siloam
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I'm almost 100% sure that myy dd11 has an undiagnosed LD in math. I'm thinking something like discalculia. She has processing problems and retention issues. She is in 6th grade but I have moved her all the way back to a 2nd grade level in Math Mammoth. She doesn't have any problems that could be solved from therapy such as visual or audio problems so I know this is something that I can deal with on my own. It's just a matter of working with her where she is and not worrying about grade levels. I have just been taking it one day at a time and doing her worksheets with her, playing games, teaching her methods for compensating for the fact that she can't retain math facts and gets bogged down with procedures. I've been focusing on math in everyday life and trying to highlight the fun things about math. I wanted to go back to almost the beginning to shore up any gaps that she may have and to teach her a new way of seeing the relationships between numbers. All this to say, no, I would not put my dc in ps simply because they have an LD. In fact, my dd had this problem when she was in ps and they did nothing for her other than give her MORE of the work she couldn't do in the first place.

 

It is scary though knowing that I am responsible for teaching her this thing that seems un-teachable but I know I can do a better job than the ps. I can work with her everyday in little bits all through the day, and I can bring math into her life in ways that she can understand. When she gets frustrated and feels like giving up, I can be there to give her a pep talk, make her laugh, give her a hug, or explain it in a different way. The ps isn't going to do that.

 

I can understand though if someone were to feel overwhelmed and not have the time to devote to such an undertaking. You need to do what YOU feel is best for your dd; only you can know what that is.

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My advice is to not worrying about being behind, and worry about mastering the basics, taking one step at a time. It is going to be slow. It will drive you nuts. But the best thing for your child is to have a safe environment in which to learn and someone who isn't afraid to keep working on it with them, no matter how many times they get their wires crossed.

 

Yes! Yes! Yes! :) :) :) This is good, thank you!

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