Epic Failure--need some help and advice for spelling

[Hedgehogs4]

Steady, consistent work in Megawords did NOTHING for my son. I think he has a spelling handicap!!!

 

He is a fantastic reader. He 9 and is currently reading Tolkien, LOTR. He is a bit of an impatient reader, however, and does not always like to work out the phonemes in a word. He's getting better, especially when reading something he really likes, but his spelling is ridiculous.

 

SWO was our most-hated program here. I have done sequential spelling until we were both bored senseless with it. is there another approach to life than just lists of words?

[robsiew]

:grouphug: No epic failures... just learning as we go!

 

 

All About Spelling changed our whole spelling world over here. Both the kids and I love it. We spend about 15-20 min. a day on spelling per child 4 days a week. I have seen huge improvements in spelling in my kids' work inside and outside of school. AAS focuses more on rules than lists. There is a list each week, but you don't use it as a traditional program does. The words will seem very easy at first, but don't be mislead by that. The concepts the children learn behind that are much more important. I have actually appreciated the easier words at the beginning because they grow a child's confidence and allow him to concentrate more on the concept/rule you are teaching and less on "memorizing" how to spell the words. Using AAS has helped me to have tools to aid my kids in their spelling outside of spelling too. I now know the rules so I can remind them. Usually with small reminders they are able to figure out the spelling themselves!

 

I'm really sold on this curriculum. My oldest has just started Level 6. He will be my first to go all the way through. He has commented several times that he LOVES spelling and can hardly believe he is learning it because it doesn't seem like "spelling". This is after tears every week when we did a traditional list. :001_smile:

[melissel]

Have you looked at All About Spelling? It seems to be a very step-by-step, "building from the ground up" program. We're only in the lower levels and DD is a natural speller, but I believe it actually was designed for kids with LDs, so if you think he needs something specific in that area, it might help you. I often say it feels like the RightStart of the spelling word, with its cards and manipulatives and hands-on element.

[melissel]

:grouphug: No epic failures... just learning as we go!

 

 

All About Spelling changed our whole spelling world over here. Both the kids and I love it. We spend about 15-20 min. a day on spelling per child 4 days a week. I have seen huge improvements in spelling in my kids' work inside and outside of school. AAS focuses more on rules than lists. There is a list each week, but you don't use it as a traditional program does. The words will seem very easy at first, but don't be mislead by that. The concepts the children learn behind that are much more important. I have actually appreciated the easier words at the beginning because they grow a child's confidence and allow him to concentrate more on the concept/rule you are teaching and less on "memorizing" how to spell the words. Using AAS has helped me to have tools to aid my kids in their spelling outside of spelling too. I now know the rules so I can remind them. Usually with small reminders they are able to figure out the spelling themselves!

 

I'm really sold on this curriculum. My oldest has just started Level 6. He will be my first to go all the way through. He has commented several times that he LOVES spelling and can hardly believe he is learning it because it doesn't seem like "spelling". This is after tears every week when we did a traditional list. :001_smile:

 

:lol: We were posting at the same time.

[Verity]

Have you looked at All About Spelling? AAS works through the sounds that individual letters make then moves to phonemes. I tried working through it but we struggled with starting at the beginning plus the cost. Alot of people have found this to be successful for them so it's definitely worth looking in to.

 

My oldest son is a natural speller so I haven't used any programs for him - he can spell at a high school + level; however, my third grade son has horrible spelling - he commonly leaves out all the vowels in a word (learned that from public school). After trying AAS last year I decided to try Phonetic Zoo from IEW earlier this year and, surprisingly, this approach is working for him. Each week with the zoo you learn one rule and then you listen to the author read a list of words that apply the rule, interspersed with him reading the rule.

 

Now spelling is a semi-independent subject for my son (yay!) where he listens to the cd (using a headset) to do his spelling, then the next track gives the correct spelling. The student never looks at a list of words and tries to memorize them, he learns a rule and tries to apply it to the words read to him. This may seem counter-intuitive but it's a success here.

 

When he gets stuck (several days of mis-spelling the same word over and over) we do "rainbow words" approach where he writes down the word on an index card then copy the word 3 or 4 times with different colored pencils while saying aloud the word and spelling it. This usually helps.

 

I've found that this phonetic rules approach is helping him in his other writing along with simple copy work...things are sticking better this year.

[Lovedtodeath]

You might take a look at apples and pears. I am also thinking that something phonetically based like AAS (you will likely both get impatient with this one), SWR, Phonics Road (I would probably try starting with level 2) or WRTR (which is spalding as linked below) would be a good idea if he is still resisting sounding out words while reading.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[Ellie]

:grouphug:

 

Spalding. :)

[Karen in CO]

My dd10 is a terrible speller too. She was one of those early readers so I only did phonics with her for a short period of time. We've tried various spelling programs, but list-based programs are horrible for her. She has a terrific memory and can easily remember how to spell a word for a test, but that doesn't translate to her writing.

 

What I have determined is that instead of memorizing words, she should be memorizing the spelling rules and phonographs. I had looked at SWR, Phonics Road and AAS when she was younger, but didn't think it was worth the trouble and expense since she read so well. :001_huh:

 

I am now looking at those three again. I'm leaning toward SWR since it seems to have the most efficient plan to get the rules memorized. We don't do well with scripted programs. I'm also looking at ways to prevent this with my next who is diligently working her way through ETC2 right now.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm leaning toward SWR since it seems to have the most efficient plan to get the rules memorized.

Rule tunes! Phonics Road. I love them! You could possibly start with level 2. We don't do well with scripting either... I gave up on AAS. The songs and the DVD are very valuable. I watch the DVD and I am doing the teaching by osmosis. Phonics Road is very similar to SWR... but it has every subject scheduled. (though we are off schedule, it is nice that it is there)

[Snowfall]

I'm using Phonics Road, but at your son's reading level I'd bet he can already spell many of the level 1 words, so I'd probably go with Spell to Write and Read in your case. It's much less expensive and you can just start wherever he tests in. I do like the Rule Tunes with PR, which aren't part of SWR, but that's really not a big deal.

[Hedgehogs4]

My dd10 is a terrible speller too. She was one of those early readers so I only did phonics with her for a short period of time. We've tried various spelling programs, but list-based programs are horrible for her. She has a terrific memory and can easily remember how to spell a word for a test, but that doesn't translate to her writing.

 

What I have determined is that instead of memorizing words, she should be memorizing the spelling rules and phonographs. I had looked at SWR, Phonics Road and AAS when she was younger, but didn't think it was worth the trouble and expense since she read so well. :001_huh:

 

I am now looking at those three again. I'm leaning toward SWR since it seems to have the most efficient plan to get the rules memorized. We don't do well with scripted programs. I'm also looking at ways to prevent this with my next who is diligently working her way through ETC2 right now.

 

sounds exactly like my situation.

[kristavws]

All About Spelling changed our whole spelling world over here.

 

:001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

This program has worked wonderfully for my youngest.

 

krista

[Karen in CO]

sounds exactly like my situation.

 

Let me know what you decide and how it works out.

[Hedgehogs4]

If he slows down and thinks, can he spell..ie did he come out knowing any of the rules that were taught?

 

no. if asked he will groan and roll on the floor as if in pain and start whining about how much he hates spelling and he can't remember, blah, blah, blah. spelling has been the bane of our existence since 1st grade.

 

Has his hearing been evaluated?

 

no. but i am certain this is not a problem.

 

When you evaluate his spelling - are you evaluating orally or in writing? Isolated word list or list in sentence or just generally usage in other written assignments?

 

all of the above. he spells the way a word sounds as if he has never learned a spelling rule in his life. frankly, i think he just doesn't care!

[Hedgehogs4]

Thanks for the replies. I am taking a good look at AAS. I think having the flash cards and the clear word families WITH RULES will be helpful for him. He needs things to make sense, or it just doesn't stick.

 

Thanks for all the input, but I will be checking back to see what else comes up! I'm certainly not buying anything until I do more research...

[Lovedtodeath]

You really need to determine if he is having a problem with phonics. You said that he doesn't like to sound out words or take the time to spell words, but then said that he spells them like they sound (which does not fit with the other two), so I would try to determine that first, before trying a new curriculum. If he has no problems sounding out words for both decoding and encoding, then I would probably not go with an Orton-Gillingham based method, but rather go with something like Apples and Pears.

 

Helping Children Overcome Learning Difficulties is a very helpful book in this respect. It will help identify the problem.

[Hedgehogs4]

You really need to determine if he is having a problem with phonics. You said that he doesn't like to sound out words or take the time to spell words, but then said that he spells them like they sound (which does not fit with the other two), so I would try to determine that first, before trying a new curriculum. If he has no problems sounding out words for both decoding and encoding, then I would probably not go with an Orton-Gillingham based method, but rather go with something like Apples and Pears.

 

Helping Children Overcome Learning Difficulties is a very helpful book in this respect. It will help identify the problem.

 

He does not like to sound out words, because his brain is always ahead of him. He is perfectly able to sound out words when he takes his time. He knows how to decode, but he cannot encode well.

 

I just had DS 9 read aloud two pages from The Fellowship of the Ring. He read very well, except for one funny thing--he read "deny" as "Denny." When I corrected him, he said, "Well I say Denny--that's what's written. I know it means deny." I said, "But that is how deny is spelled," to which he said, "OH! I thought it was a much longer word and they had just shortened it." :001_huh: He thought the mistake was very funny, but when I see that, I realize that there are subtle phonics rules that I understand that he doesn't get yet. I can see why he would say, "denny" -- It's kind of a "martian word" as we call it. He reads at a nice pace, with expression, and occasionally will drop a two-letter word or something, but nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Then I took words in context and had him spell back to me: diminish, subsided, queer, produced, pony, astonished. No pressure, no spelling book sitting there staring him down, no rules to recite. he missed "produced," because he substituted an s for the soft c. If that had been a spelling test, he likely would have misspelled all of them because he would be freaking out and complaining.

 

So I think the problem lies in the inability to apply spelling rules to words that are being spelled, or lack of knowledge of them.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Hedgehogs4

[Lovedtodeath]

He knows how to decode, but he cannot encode well.

Your spelling test was a good idea.

 

I just had DS 9 read aloud two pages from The Fellowship of the Ring. He read very well, except for one funny thing--he read "deny" as "Denny."

Open and closed syllables... AAS 2 is excellent for this.

[johnandtinagilbert]

It seems like he needs to practice application of the rules. AAS, WRTR, PR or SWR will all do a great job of teaching the application of the rules.

 

My favorite thing about PR is you get to see the application in LA, as the program is connected. You do dictation for grammar and sentence parsing that includes spelling words, so you get to put the spelling practice into action. You take the vocabulary from the lit. and spell the words somehow or another as the writing component. The connections are made and the whole program is very effective.

 

Being only 9, your son could pick up in the PR series pretty easily. I'm in PR3 right now and Loving the word study and that the grammar is pulled from the literature reading.

 

That said, if you don't want an AIO, then I think AAS would be the easiest to slip into the rest of your routine. He'd get a solid program of practice for rules application and it's not as complicated to jump into as the others.

[Michelle My Bell]

Don't waste anymore time. Just get All About Spelling.

[RootAnn]

My oldest has very, very little visual memory. This is our fourth year in SWR. She knows all phonograms & spelling rules. She reads above grade level (silently). She mis-pronounces words when she reads aloud ... and, when I run across a word that I don't know, I sometimes struggle to get the right pronounciation, too. She is a terrible speller, although she's much better than she used to be. She HATES using a dictionary to look up her misspelled words.

 

My #2 is also a terrible speller. I can help with a good program like SWR, but even when you know the rules & have a good phonics base, sometimes you just have to remember that "degree" has a "ee" on the end even though it sounds just like how we say "hungry" - with a 'y.' And "face" uses a c while "base" uses an "s." And "now" is not how we spell "know." Etc.

[Hedgehogs4]

nevermind, answered my own question.

 

Thanks for all the help ladies. After staring hard at the computer for several hours, I am mostly drawn to AAS. I am thinking of picking up PR for my daughter, though, and bypassing this little misery for her later on--looks like a great program.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Hedgehogs4

[ElizabethB]

I would have her watch through my phonics lessons, then my spelling lessons, then a quick review through all the things on my how to tutor page, just spelling a few words from each Blend Phonics unit and reviewing the associated rules. Free and efficient! (I ran through the 2nd part with my daughter in a few hours.)

[Lovedtodeath]

nevermind, answered my own question.

 

Thanks for all the help ladies. After staring hard at the computer for several hours, I am mostly drawn to AAS. I am thinking of picking up PR for my daughter, though, and bypassing this little misery for her later on--looks like a great program.

If you are willing to do both then that is fabulous! Then you could still use the rule tunes from PR! (We remember them so much easier than the key cards from AAS.)

 

One thing that I noticed about PR and AAS is that AAS has rules on the key cards (like when to use CK and tch) that PR doesn't have tunes for but rather has on the phonogram card. The phonogram card will say "the three letter /ch/ that is used after a single short vowel" or something to that affect.

 

You might end up following our pattern of AAS 1 and half of 2 then switching to PR full time. :D The nice thing is that I sold AAS 1 and 2 used for almost what I paid for them (used). I only had to pay for shipping and the AAS tiles (that we might still use some instead of the PR tiles).

Edited January 12, 2011 by Lovedtodeath

[EKS]

All About Spelling.

 

Also, google "stealth dyslexia" to see if it fits.

[johnandtinagilbert]

nevermind, answered my own question.

 

Thanks for all the help ladies. After staring hard at the computer for several hours, I am mostly drawn to AAS. I am thinking of picking up PR for my daughter, though, and bypassing this little misery for her later on--looks like a great program.

Sounds like a great plan. :001_smile:

[Guest]

Umm...I am going to dissent here. AAS did NOTHING for my older two who still spell terribly. I have used the program twice with them. What did help was every time they miss a word in writing or ask me how to spell it, they have to write it in their personal spelling dictionaries. (started with 26 pages of paper in their binder) This did wonders and truely is the ONLY spelling idea that worked.

 

Oh, I have tried just about all the spelling programs out there with these two.

[MaMa2005]

A Reason for Spelling has a list of 18 words for each week. Activities are based on the word list. Think spelling book from our days in elementary school. Pretest on Day 1, activities on Days 2, 3, 4 to reinforce the spellings and Post Test on Day 5. Open and go.

 

It has worked well for us. DS can spell super long words, but couldn't spell simple words :confused:. This has really helped.

[Hedgehogs4]

All About Spelling.

 

Also, google "stealth dyslexia" to see if it fits.

 

interesting...very interesting. I was diagnosed as dyslexic in the first grade by a specialist, and had similar traits...a very advanced reader and verbal ability but something was off. Mind you, I was six, so I don't really remember what tipped my teacher off to telling my mom that she should have me checked. Might be something to look into further, but I'm doubtful. If he is dyslexic (based on that article) it would probably be the mildest of cases.

 

thanks for the tip!

[AppleGreen]

Thank you for the stealth dyslexia link. It fits my son to a T. The former Special Ed teacher in me has long suspected some learning hiccups and the article I read was like a page out of our day.

 

We do use AAS and have seen very small improvements, but he still struggles with spelling so much. He is clearly intelligent and my goodness his vocabulary, but writing skills and spelling AAAH! Honestly, we have probably seen the biggest improvement w/ WWE. I have also added 5 high frequency words to our weekly AAS step (we do one step a week, unless he needs another week, we never do more than a step a week). My 10 year old still can't spell many, about, their and so many other common words. :( We use the 1200 most common words for this list. I use Beth Newingham's site for this portion of our spelling. We practice the weekly words in various ways many, many times a week.

[my2boysteacher]

Thank you for the stealth dyslexia link. It fits my son to a T. The former Special Ed teacher in me has long suspected some learning hiccups and the article I read was like a page out of our day.

 

We do use AAS and have seen very small improvements, but he still struggles with spelling so much. He is clearly intelligent and my goodness his vocabulary, but writing skills and spelling AAAH! Honestly, we have probably seen the biggest improvement w/ WWE. I have also added 5 high frequency words to our weekly AAS step (we do one step a week, unless he needs another week, we never do more than a step a week). My 10 year old still can't spell many, about, their and so many other common words. :( We use the 1200 most common words for this list. I use Beth Newingham's site for this portion of our spelling. We practice the weekly words in various ways many, many times a week.

 

My son sounds so similar to yours. I strongly suspect he is dyslexic (stealth dyslexic) as well. We started AAS and WWE this year and have seen improvement, finally! I'm so glad someone mentioned 'stealth dyslexia', because I never would have suspected my son to be dyslexic based on the fact he is a solid reader and has an incredible vocabulary.

I'm reading a very helpful book right now-'The Mislabeled Child'. It has a chapter on dyslexia, and gives practical, concrete ideas on how to help your child learn, re-learn or compensate. I highly recommend it!