One is never useless if he/she can serve as a bad example - but what if it's grandpa?

[Hoggirl]

We went to see my husband's family this past weekend to "do" our family Christmas. To say my f-i-l is a thorn in my side is an understatement. He is grumpy, harsh, critical, complaining, and generally sour in mood. After knowing him for 22+ years, he is obviously not going to change. But, what I am concerned about is the bad example he sets for ds. He tends to value things that we do not. Let me give some examples. After my niece graduated from high school last spring he said, "I sure hope niece is more popular when she gets to college." Thankfully, not said in front of niece, but it was said in front of ds. Yes, she is shy, but she is also kind, mature, and on an almost full-ride at her college. After my husband got a promotion at work fil said, "Well, maybe now you'll make the big bucks." No "Congratulations," or "I'm proud of how hard you have worked to get that promotion." But the comments that get me the most are the ones that he makes about m-i-l. She is a delightful, smart, and attractive woman, but he never, and I mean NEVER says ANYTHING nice to her at all. He constantly belittles her, rides her about her weight, complains about her cooking, etc. I have only seen him show any sign of true affection to her one time - at her father's funeral when he put his arm around her. Otherwise, I have never seen him touch her in a nice way. If he touches her at all, it's in a picking-on-her way. This weekend we looked at old slides. Pictures from when they were first married. She was stunning (actually he was, too - they were a really good-looking couple), but every time a picture of her popped up he would ask why she wasn't that thin anymore, why she didn't still look that at anymore. These photos were almost 50 years old! Not to mention the fact that he has the big COMB OVER himself. Obviously, we were in his house, and I cannot control what he does or says. Anytime he made a comment like that, I just said, "MIL, you are still beautiful," "MIL, you look terrific today," etc. He is smart enough not to be as hateful when they come to visit us.

 

We have had issues with ds along the way, too. When ds was four years old he gave grandpa a birthday card in which he had signed his name. The first thing he said, was, "That's not a very good (insert first letter of ds's name)." He was four! One time when ds was little he asked me (of course, he didn't ask dh!), "Why doesn't grandpa like me? Why doesn't he want to play with me?" I covered for grandpa a LOT when ds was younger. I don't need to do that now, since ds is older, but I am trying to figure out if I only let ds observe or if I talk to him about how fil acts.

 

Ds obviously sees this behavior, but my question is: Do I talk to him about it after we have spent time with then to point out how poorly fil is behaving? He clearly wasn't paying attention during the "honor and cherish" part of the vows. Ds and fil are not particularly close. Whenever we go visit mother-in-law always takes ds to do many fun things - zoo, museums, libraries, walking trails, out to lunch, to plays, etc., but fil never goes with him. Since they aren't close, I suppose it is unlikely that he would have much influence over him. DH is a wonderful husband and father, so ds gets a great example at home every day. We don't see them often. Maybe six or seven time a year. Maybe I am just being nasty in wanting to point out fil's flaws.

 

Should I talk to ds about grandpa's behavior or not?

[NanceXToo]

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.

[Remudamom]

Gracious soul that I am I'd probably tell kiddo to enjoy grandma and poop on grandpa.

[Catwoman]

DH is a wonderful husband and father, so ds gets a great example at home every day.

 

Your dh is the one setting the example for your ds. I'm sure your ds already knows that Grandpa is a less-than-stellar human being, even if he doesn't come right out and say so.

 

I give you a lot of credit for being able to hold your tongue about your fil. Any time I'm not happy with someone's behavior, my ds hears all about it, because I can't wait to leave the person's house so I can gossip about them with dh in the car on the way home.

 

And yes, I know. Gossiping is bad. And wrong. ;)

 

Of course, in our case, ds is a lot like me, so if he saw anyone being unpleasant to someone he cared about, he would call them on it. Right then, right there. He is fearless. And don't ever let anyone talk trash about his mom... :D

 

Cat

[duckens]

I would talk to your ds BEFORE leaving to visit. I would prepare ds about grandpa's behavior to protect him if grandpa is negative towards my ds.

 

I would use examples of things grandpa has said to or abut others (grandma, cousin) that are hurtful, untrue, and unnecessary.

 

Hopefully these lessons will be learned by your ds:

1) If grandpa says something hurtful to me, it is not necessarily true or important. Grandpa is simply cranky sometimes.

2) I don't want to be a hurtful individual in that way.

[Hoggirl]

Your dh is the one setting the example for your ds. I'm sure your ds already knows that Grandpa is a less-than-stellar human being, even if he doesn't come right out and say so.

 

I give you a lot of credit for being able to hold your tongue about your fil. Any time I'm not happy with someone's behavior, my ds hears all about it, because I can't wait to leave the person's house so I can gossip about them with dh in the car on the way home.

 

And yes, I know. Gossiping is bad. And wrong. ;)

 

Of course, in our case, ds is a lot like me, so if he saw anyone being unpleasant to someone he cared about, he would call them on it. Right then, right there. He is fearless. And don't ever let anyone talk trash about his mom... :D

 

Cat

 

DH gets an earful. I just don't say ugly things in front of ds. That time when ds asked me why grandpa didn't like him? Whew! I read my husband the riot act. To which he patiently let me rant and rave and then said (truthfully and in reality), "I can't make my father behave."

[Hoggirl]

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.

 

Why couldn't I think of that? Thank you.

[In the Rain]

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.

 

:iagree: Wow, this is very well said.

[Kathleen in VA]

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.

 

:iagree:It sounds like someone in fil's life emphasized physical beauty above all other worthwhile traits. He finds his own worth in superficial things so, of course, he projects that to others. It's very sad and you're right - you have no control over it. Fil will not be the only person your son meets like this so this is an excellent opportunity for him to learn to not take it personally. My dh's grandfather was exactly like this, btw. I felt so sorry for his wife - she had a beautiful, kind, loving spirit - too bad he couldn't appreciate that. Anyway, your son is old enough learn that his grandfather's behavior is not directed at him particularly and he should not let it upset him. He is blessed to have your dh for a father. Perhaps you could also instruct your son to give his grandmother extra encouragement since she's not getting it from her husband. Turn it into an opportunity for your son to be a blessing to his grandma and just ignore his grandpa's bad take on life.

[Mejane]

Wow, you have described my fil to a T. :glare: If I were you, I'd talk to my son. He needs to know it's not about him; it's about fil. Nance said it well.

[LibraryLover]

My kids and I quite enjoy reviewing the crazy folk in the family. Of course you discuss those folks who don't quite make sense, so as to come up with a plan, if nothing else. . :auto: It's not gossip, it's family lore. As in, "Hey! Want to hear the newest Grampa-ism?" ;) Or, said in a whisper, "Yo. So and so has got her panties in wad again, want to listen in?"

[JVA]

While your fil is a jerk, it's your husband's job to DEAL with his father. He should also be the one to de-program what your ds hears.

 

Don't mean to sound mean, but when you've been married for 30+ years and there is a person in the extended family who has emotional problems that have never been addressed, one doesn't have much patience with disrespect.

Edited December 22, 2010 by JVA

[Hedgehog]

We went to see my husband's family this past weekend to "do" our family Christmas. To say my f-i-l is a thorn in my side is an understatement. He is grumpy, harsh, critical, complaining, and generally sour in mood. After knowing him for 22+ years, he is obviously not going to change. But, what I am concerned about is the bad example he sets for ds. He tends to value things that we do not. Let me give some examples. After my niece graduated from high school last spring he said, "I sure hope niece is more popular when she gets to college." Thankfully, not said in front of niece, but it was said in front of ds. Yes, she is shy, but she is also kind, mature, and on an almost full-ride at her college. After my husband got a promotion at work fil said, "Well, maybe now you'll make the big bucks." No "Congratulations," or "I'm proud of how hard you have worked to get that promotion." But the comments that get me the most are the ones that he makes about m-i-l. She is a delightful, smart, and attractive woman, but he never, and I mean NEVER says ANYTHING nice to her at all. He constantly belittles her, rides her about her weight, complains about her cooking, etc. I have only seen him show any sign of true affection to her one time - at her father's funeral when he put his arm around her. Otherwise, I have never seen him touch her in a nice way. If he touches her at all, it's in a picking-on-her way. This weekend we looked at old slides. Pictures from when they were first married. She was stunning (actually he was, too - they were a really good-looking couple), but every time a picture of her popped up he would ask why she wasn't that thin anymore, why she didn't still look that at anymore. These photos were almost 50 years old! Not to mention the fact that he has the big COMB OVER himself. Obviously, we were in his house, and I cannot control what he does or says. Anytime he made a comment like that, I just said, "MIL, you are still beautiful," "MIL, you look terrific today," etc. He is smart enough not to be as hateful when they come to visit us.

 

We have had issues with ds along the way, too. When ds was four years old he gave grandpa a birthday card in which he had signed his name. The first thing he said, was, "That's not a very good (insert first letter of ds's name)." He was four! One time when ds was little he asked me (of course, he didn't ask dh!), "Why doesn't grandpa like me? Why doesn't he want to play with me?" I covered for grandpa a LOT when ds was younger. I don't need to do that now, since ds is older, but I am trying to figure out if I only let ds observe or if I talk to him about how fil acts.

 

Ds obviously sees this behavior, but my question is: Do I talk to him about it after we have spent time with then to point out how poorly fil is behaving? He clearly wasn't paying attention during the "honor and cherish" part of the vows. Ds and fil are not particularly close. Whenever we go visit mother-in-law always takes ds to do many fun things - zoo, museums, libraries, walking trails, out to lunch, to plays, etc., but fil never goes with him. Since they aren't close, I suppose it is unlikely that he would have much influence over him. DH is a wonderful husband and father, so ds gets a great example at home every day. We don't see them often. Maybe six or seven time a year. Maybe I am just being nasty in wanting to point out fil's flaws.

 

Should I talk to ds about grandpa's behavior or not?

 

I'm feeling that your FIL is being very hard on the people in his life - is he hard on himself, as well? Like if he makes a mistake, is he mad at himself?

 

Personally, I think it's important that you have a chat with your ds about it. There is nothing wrong with pointing out a negative behavior in such a way as shows compassion but also teaches the child how to try and be different, and why.

 

If you only see them 6-7 times a year, I doubt your ds will model your FIL's behavior - he's much more likely to copy your DH.

[5Wizards]

Ok, I'll have the unpopular opinion here. :tongue_smilie:

 

If my child brought something up, I would discuss it with him/her, but try to do so in a way similar to what someone else said about feeling sorry for him, he must be unhappy, etc....

 

If my child didn't bring it up, and he wasn't directing nastiness directly towards my child, then I wouldn't say anything. My parents both had issues with their parents that I never knew about until I was much older, and I'm glad they gave that gift to me. My goal is to try to make sure that my kids have the best possible relationships that they can with their grandparents, so I avoid speaking unkindly of relatives in front of them.

 

We certainly have some "crazy" in our family as far as certain relatives, but I don't think it hurts for a child to be sheltered from that until they bring it up and want to discuss it. Besides, I do think that sometimes when we have a negative opinion of someone, we end up overreacting to everything they do (at least I do).

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I also should note that my oldest is only 9, so I don't have experience with 8th graders and where they are emotionally, so maybe my answer would be different if I did. :001_smile:

[kalanamak]

 

Should I talk to ds about grandpa's behavior or not?

 

I'm from a family of understaters, and I would say "whew, GP is such a negative person is can be unpleasant being around him--aren't we lucky to be cheerful and to not live with him, I'm so happy you were so sweet to GM" and leave it at that.

[Garga]

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.

 

Love that. I would address it with DS in this exact way.

 

You FIL sounds abusive. Constantly belittling his wife is verbal abuse. I had a very beautiful, selfless, sweet aunt who was married to an ogre like that. Thankfully, he died first and she is living out her golden years in peace in a gorgeous cabin in the mountains where she paints in a glass-walled studio every day.

[NanceXToo]

Yes, it IS abusive, for sure.

 

I also wanted to come back and say two other things:

 

1) I think it's good that you go out of your way to build your mother in law up and to say nice things to her

 

2) If you have this talk with your son and IF he says something along the lines of "I'm going to say something to Grandpa next time he does it!" (I don't know if your son would do that but IF he does)... please don't discourage it. No, "Oh, don't say anything, it's not our business, just say something nice to grandma" or anything like that... if a teenage boy gets something in his mind as the "right thing to do" (and it WOULD actually be the right thing, I think), don't discourage that. That would send a really bad subconscious message to him I think!

[Hoggirl]

No, but he can choose to let him know you wont continue to bring your family around someone so toxic.

 

I so wish dh would do this, but he will NOT stand up to his father. FIL has always acted like this, and everyone just puts up with it. His toxicity messed with my sil (dh's sister) much more than with dh. She moved out of the house at 17 and has been married three times and her current husband is 18 years older than she is. She is pretty settled now, but definitely unhappy. No one stands up to him. I would if he were in my home, but, as I said, he is too smart to be like that on my turf.

 

I also agree with JVA that dh should be the one who addresses the issue with ds, but I don't think that will happen either.

 

Fortunately, fil is not that critical of ds. Within the family, it is mostly directed to mil, though everyone catches some of it. When I was in law school and ranked third in my class he commented, "Why aren't you first?" No, he wasn't making a joke!!! And, he wasn't paying for law school either!

 

He simply has the attitude that NOTHING is ever good enough. It took me YEARS to get past the point of trying to please him.

[Halftime Hope]

I'm from a family of understaters, and I would say "whew, GP is such a negative person is can be unpleasant being around him--aren't we lucky to be cheerful and to not live with him, I'm so happy you were so sweet to GM" and leave it at that.

 

:iagree:

 

K, I think you are onto something. Our children are very intelligent and emotionally astute. There is no reason to explain things to them in great detail; they understand the difference between healthy behavior and inappropriate behavior, and they know in their "gut" how it makes them feel. Unless they are asking specific questions, all they need is validation that their intinctive response is correct, and they'll go from there. Understatment has a useful lesson embedded in it: the person's negative behavior does not have undue power over me.

[ConnieB]

We went to see my husband's family this past weekend to "do" our family Christmas. To say my f-i-l is a thorn in my side is an understatement. He is grumpy, harsh, critical, complaining, and generally sour in mood. After knowing him for 22+ years, he is obviously not going to change. But, what I am concerned about is the bad example he sets for ds. He tends to value things that we do not. Let me give some examples. After my niece graduated from high school last spring he said, "I sure hope niece is more popular when she gets to college." Thankfully, not said in front of niece, but it was said in front of ds. Yes, she is shy, but she is also kind, mature, and on an almost full-ride at her college. After my husband got a promotion at work fil said, "Well, maybe now you'll make the big bucks." No "Congratulations," or "I'm proud of how hard you have worked to get that promotion." But the comments that get me the most are the ones that he makes about m-i-l. She is a delightful, smart, and attractive woman, but he never, and I mean NEVER says ANYTHING nice to her at all. He constantly belittles her, rides her about her weight, complains about her cooking, etc. I have only seen him show any sign of true affection to her one time - at her father's funeral when he put his arm around her. Otherwise, I have never seen him touch her in a nice way. If he touches her at all, it's in a picking-on-her way. This weekend we looked at old slides. Pictures from when they were first married. She was stunning (actually he was, too - they were a really good-looking couple), but every time a picture of her popped up he would ask why she wasn't that thin anymore, why she didn't still look that at anymore. These photos were almost 50 years old! Not to mention the fact that he has the big COMB OVER himself. Obviously, we were in his house, and I cannot control what he does or says. Anytime he made a comment like that, I just said, "MIL, you are still beautiful," "MIL, you look terrific today," etc. He is smart enough not to be as hateful when they come to visit us.

 

We have had issues with ds along the way, too. When ds was four years old he gave grandpa a birthday card in which he had signed his name. The first thing he said, was, "That's not a very good (insert first letter of ds's name)." He was four! One time when ds was little he asked me (of course, he didn't ask dh!), "Why doesn't grandpa like me? Why doesn't he want to play with me?" I covered for grandpa a LOT when ds was younger. I don't need to do that now, since ds is older, but I am trying to figure out if I only let ds observe or if I talk to him about how fil acts.

 

Ds obviously sees this behavior, but my question is: Do I talk to him about it after we have spent time with then to point out how poorly fil is behaving? He clearly wasn't paying attention during the "honor and cherish" part of the vows. Ds and fil are not particularly close. Whenever we go visit mother-in-law always takes ds to do many fun things - zoo, museums, libraries, walking trails, out to lunch, to plays, etc., but fil never goes with him. Since they aren't close, I suppose it is unlikely that he would have much influence over him. DH is a wonderful husband and father, so ds gets a great example at home every day. We don't see them often. Maybe six or seven time a year. Maybe I am just being nasty in wanting to point out fil's flaws.

 

Should I talk to ds about grandpa's behavior or not?

 

Sounds to me like your ds already knows about grandpa's behavior...and knew at 4 years old even if he couldn't quite articulate it properly. Unless I saw ds imitating grandpa, I'd probably just let it go. It's amazing what kids understand without our needing to say anything.

 

I like the others' suggestion to put a more positive spin on any discussion "so sad Grandpa is so negative" etc. If your son is feeling the need to talk, such a comment will likely open it up. If not, then your son has accepted that grandpa is not going to change, nor is it ds's fault that grandpa "doesn't like" him. It's just who grandpa is. Kudos and much prayer for grandma to put up with him all these years and not let it rub off on her....and for being the kind of grandma your ds deserves despite grandpa.

[BlsdMama]

If he's in 8th grade, he's old enough to pick up on it... Trust me.

 

By not saying anything you get to be the good guy, extending grace. And I'll guarantee if your husband is a wonderful husband and father, he's picking up on how far the apple fell from the tree. It's amazing how perceptive our older children actually are.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: And I add something like, "I'm so glad your dad takes after his mother."

 

Your son is in 8th grade? Yes. I would talk to him. Not in a nasty "what a jerk he is!" kind of way. But a sort of sad commentary/conversation: "It's a shame Grandpa seems so bitter all the time, isn't it? He must not be very happy if he is always feeling the need to criticize people and finds it so hard to give praise where it is due. I wonder if his father was hard on him. I'm glad that your dad was able to break the cycle and to be a different kind of father than his father was, and that you have a good example to follow in your dad. But it always makes me feel kind of bad when we're around Grandpa and he talks like that in front of us. What do you think?"

 

That kind of thing.