Swimmermom....I just wanted to thank you!

[Debbie in OR]

(Oops...just realized it's "swimmermom3"..sorry about that)

 

You posted this in the thread about what's the best age to homeschool:

 

I don't know if other posters would agree but I do know if I could do it over for my middle child that was home for two years, I would use that precious time to focus primarily on skills and not worry nearly so much about content. I would make sure he could take notes, create outlines, write essays, research and process information, construct lab reports, answer questions, ask questions, seek out help when needed, keep track of his work, meet deadlines, memorize facts, work hard, and follow rabbit trails while balancing the must-do work. Content is much easier to acquire if the basic skills are there. Yes, they will hopefully cover those skills more in-depth in high school, but don't count on it. I let this son spend more time acquiring information and less time writing. That is a mistake I hope not to repeat with his younger brother.

 

...and I printed it off and have been re-thinking our approach to things. I had my dh read it last night and we both agreed it makes so much sense.

 

Anyhow, I just wanted to thank you for posting that and for saying it so succintly!

[HappyGrace]

Wow, I had missed that thread so I'm glad Debbie posted that nugget of wisdom here! Printed it out to remind me of our focus for middle school-we tend to go way into content because we love it and I'm trying to temper that with more of what swimmermom3 said here.

 

Thanks, swimmermom3 (and Debbie)!

[Capt_Uhura]

That's going in my to be saved file! Thanks for posting it!

[HeidiKC]

I, too, loved that post and have thought a lot about it since reading it!

[swimmermom3]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

[Susan in KY]

.... The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

A truer word has rarely been written on this board. :tongue_smilie:

[HappyGrace]

Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits

 

I actually burst out laughing at this (rare for me)! :lol:

[Sunshine State Sue]

Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

Is this the truth of the matter? I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

[Capt_Uhura]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

:lol:

 

Truer words were never spoken.

[swimmermom3]

Is this the truth of the matter? I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

 

You must understand that prior to writing that post I had been standing at the top of a tall ladder in the cold, pouring down rain scrubbing egg off the front of my house. Supposedly my kids were helping me but mostly they stood there with their teeth chattering while texting their friends to find out who did it. My dd's boyfriend is home on leave. He made the 25 minute drive to "help us out." Hurray! The cavalry is coming...not! At one point, I look down from my precarious perch at the top of the ladder. They are no longer holding that ladder but the hormonal half-wits are holding each other.:tongue_smilie: Really, they must have only rocks in their heads. I was one mad mother who just happened to be holding a hose with a heavy duty spray head on it. It took everything I had but I did restrain myself from pulling the trigger. The boy was in uniform and I wouldn't want to damage military property but I digress from the topic at hand...

[PenKase]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

 

OMG!! Could not have said it better!!!!!

 

 

You must understand that prior to writing that post I had been standing at the top of a tall ladder in the cold, pouring down rain scrubbing egg off the front of my house. Supposedly my kids were helping me but mostly they stood there with their teeth chattering while texting their friends to find out who did it. My dd's boyfriend is home on leave. He made the 25 minute drive to "help us out." Hurray! The cavalry is coming...not! At one point, I look down from my precarious perch at the top of the ladder. They are no longer holding that ladder but the hormonal half-wits are holding each other.:tongue_smilie: Really, they must have only rocks in their heads. I was one mad mother who just happened to be holding a hose with a heavy duty spray head on it. It took everything I had but I did restrain myself from pulling the trigger. The boy was in uniform and I wouldn't want to damage military property but I digress from the topic at hand...

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Mommybostic]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Debbie in OR]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

Oh my goodness...it just gets better! :lol:

[LunaLee]

Thank you all, but I would be remiss in not confessing that I find it easier to write the words than to put the concepts into practice. New curriculum, extensive research, and elaborate planning are to me what shiny baubles are to many women. " Oh look!" "I must have it." "It costs how much?" Later, "Too bad it doesn't go with my children." :tongue_smilie:

 

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

I heard that, sister!

[swimmermom3]

To give you all something else to consider, there is a very good article by Carol S. Dweck, Ph.D in Scientific American Mind's December 2007 issue on "The Secret to Raising Smart Kids." Unfortunately, they show you only enough of the article to pique your interest but the premise is that a" focus on effort-not intelligence or ability- is key to success in school and in life." The findings are supposedly based on 3 decades of research. I am trying to figure out how to get a full copy of this article on here because I am dying to discuss it.

 

This is the part of the article that really had me considering how I would do things differently:

 

"In fact, however, more than 30 years of scientific investigation suggests that an overemphasis on intellect or talent leaves people vulnerable to failure, fearful of challenges and unwilling to remedy their shortcomings.

...who coast through the early grades under the dangerous notion that no-effort academic achievement defines them as smart or gifted. Such children hold an implicit belief that intelligence is innate and fixed, making striving to learn seem far less important than being (or looking) smart."

 

For me, the number one skill to establish and hone is that of hard work and effort. How to go back and teach this later in my kids' lives rather than earlier is the challenge that keeps me awake at night.

[Guest]

This general sort of thing has been said regarding Asian schools, particularly in international studies of mathematics achievement and student attitudes (I think I read some of this in the book about the TIMMS study, The Learning Gap). The major findings were that Asians attributed their achievement levels universally to hard work and believed that anyone could learn math to this level if they were motivated to work hard enough. At the same time, if I remember right, the students had fairly low "self-esteem" -- whatever that is and however it was measured (probably fill in the bubble). The American kids had much lower achievement levels but inversely high self-esteem. They also believed that math talent was in-built and that only "smart" kids could achieve at high levels.

 

I'd be really very interested to know, among many other things, if anyone has done studies on similar elements of different disciplines, from science to history to writing. I'd also be interested in the discussion as it applies, or does not apply, to kids with learning disabilities. Often kids like these become frustrated and learn to feel stupid if their individual ways of learning are not identified and their disabilities discussed with them as neurological, not "personal" or their fault in any way. Many kids simply give up. Others, like my dd, struggle so hard and so long on things that they see other kids accomplish effortlessly. I should think the discussion would get pretty complicated pretty quickly.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Guest

[swimmermom3]

This general sort of thing has been said regarding Asian schools, particularly in international studies of mathematics achievement and student attitudes (I think I read some of this in the book about the TIMMS study, The Learning Gap). The major findings were that Asians attributed their achievement levels universally to hard work and believed that anyone could learn math to this level if they were motivated to work hard enough. At the same time, if I remember right, the students had fairly low "self-esteem" -- whatever that is and however it was measured (probably fill in the bubble). The American kids had much lower achievement levels but inversely high self-esteem. They also believed that math talent was in-built and that only "smart" kids could achieve at high levels.

 

I'd be really very interested to know, among many other things, if anyone has done studies on similar elements of different disciplines, from science to history to writing. I'd also be interested in the discussion as it applies, or does not apply, to kids with learning disabilities. Often kids like these become frustrated and learn to feel stupid if their individual ways of learning are not identified and their disabilities discussed with them as neurological, not "personal" or their fault in any way. Many kids simply give up. Others, like my dd, struggle so hard and so long on things that they see other kids accomplish effortlessly. I should think the discussion would get pretty complicated pretty quickly.

 

Karen, I do remember reading about the math issue and agree that it would be interesting to see results from other disciplines. I am going out on a limb here but I think whether or not the child has learning disabilities, this idea of a "fixed" level of intelligence is debilitating. I will scan the article tomorrow and email it to you. Dweck's basic premise is that as a culture we have placed too much emphasis on giftedness and talent and not enough on effort. However, if I understand correctly, you are saying that the other end of that issue is effort that doesn't accomplish the desired end? Thank you so much for bringing that aspect up. I could only see my dd in the quote I used from the article. I am so sorry. I didn't mean to be thoughtless in bringing this up. It is just that there are so few people in IRL for me to discuss these ideas with that I just have to bring them here and share.:tongue_smilie:

[sagira]

To give you all something else to consider, there is a very good article by Carol S. Dweck, Ph.D in Scientific American Mind's December 2007 issue on "The Secret to Raising Smart Kids." Unfortunately, they show you only enough of the article to pique your interest but the premise is that a" focus on effort-not intelligence or ability- is key to success in school and in life." The findings are supposedly based on 3 decades of research. I am trying to figure out how to get a full copy of this article on here because I am dying to discuss it.

 

This is the part of the article that really had me considering how I would do things differently:

 

"In fact, however, more than 30 years of scientific investigation suggests that an overemphasis on intellect or talent leaves people vulnerable to failure, fearful of challenges and unwilling to remedy their shortcomings.

...who coast through the early grades under the dangerous notion that no-effort academic achievement defines them as smart or gifted. Such children hold an implicit belief that intelligence is innate and fixed, making striving to learn seem far less important than being (or looking) smart."

 

For me, the number one skill to establish and hone is that of hard work and effort. How to go back and teach this later in my kids' lives rather than earlier is the challenge that keeps me awake at night.

 

My kids are still very young, but these golden nuggets of wisdom are wonderful. I've been thinking about this issue myself a lot. I was a gifted child who didn't learn the value of hard work. At 33, I'm still struggling. Don't want that for my dc. Thank you!

[Jumping In Puddles]

To give you all something else to consider, there is a very good article by Carol S. Dweck, Ph.D in Scientific American Mind's December 2007 issue on "The Secret to Raising Smart Kids." Unfortunately, they show you only enough of the article to pique your interest but the premise is that a" focus on effort-not intelligence or ability- is key to success in school and in life."

 

Raising Smart Kids :)

[thowell]

I could not agree more! My oldest dd18 has recently graduated in the top 10% of her class. She was an honor student who made straight A's. The down side? She has just moved out on her own (by her own choice:confused:) and has no idea how to take care of herself or the drive and motivation to do it. She only made it through one semester of college and has dropped out. She has flipped through three different jobs and is well let me just say it! LAZY!!!!! My mother basically keeps her bank account for her online. She overdraws all the time and dear old Granny rushes in to fix it. She pays her bills late because she forgets or just loses them. I say all this to point out that I have realized that I really failed her and will not make that mistake with the younger ones. Although knowledge of academics is important, if we do not teach our children the value and pride of hard work they will fail or at least struggle. I put just as high of a value on chores done well and really trying hard at academics as I do on a 100 score on a spelling test! I believe anyone can learn anything if they try hard enough. But such as our society now we have taught our children to be lazy! This is a mistake that dh and I are focusing on not making again. Ok I am through with my rant!!!

[Another Lynn]

So.... obviously I need to read the article. I was a diligent student, but it didn't really matter if I worked hard or winged it - it was always enough to do pretty well.... even better than pretty well. Maybe it's because standards over the years have been lowered?

 

Flash forward to current day... homeschool... my kids don't have the opportunity to compare themselves to other students on a daily basis... but that hasn't solved the problem. Part of me wants to have higher standards.... but coming from a family that DID emphasize accomplishments, I don't want them to think they are never good enough.

 

I definitely *get* that I *want* more results with less effort in all areas of my life - isn't that the benefit of being an adult, LOL? I think the change starts with *me.* ugh!

[Capt_Uhura]

Swimmermom - this was one of my reasons for HSing. I wanted DS to be challenged, to have to put forth effort to learn things. As I posted into another thread, DS never had to focus for more than 5min. His previously, unusually long attention span, had shriveled. Use it or lose it. It really took a year to get him to be able to put forth effort for 30min at a time.

 

As in all things, he can depend on the kid. My DS felt that peers getting better w/ math facts meant the kids were getting smarter. And b/c memorizing the facts wasn't coming as fast to him, he felt like he was dumb and not good at math. So I've had to walk a fine line with helping him to see he is good at math but that memorizing math facts takes a bit more effort for him....it takes constant practice or he loses them.

 

I often talk to them about people who naturally find something easy, be it sports or intellectual pursuits, who are surpassed by folks who work hard at the pursuit. For the ultimate level, we all have limits. If I practiced basketball 10hrs/day, I'll never be Michelle Jordan lol.

 

Well, it's almost time for me to go into recovery. DH just came out of surgery.

[TKDmom]

Raising Smart Kids :)

 

I read this somewhere before. Now, how in the world do you teach your children that effort is more important than innate ability? Especially when they've already decided (at the tender age of 7) that they are not good at math (or whatever it is that they struggle with) just because it's hard.

[HappyGrace]

Carol Dweck, who wrote that article, wrote this wonderful book, which I recently read and loved:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Success-Carol-Dweck/dp/0345472322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292945066&sr=8-1

 

It expands on the topics in the article linked. I encourage you all to check it out-lots of good stuff we can apply to homeschooling. It completely changed my focus.

Edited December 21, 2010 by HappyGrace

[Capt_Uhura]

The huge drawback for me was feeling like an impostor. I felt like at some point I would fail and everyone would know I wasn't smart. I notice that still. I don't like to take risks. I will research something to death to be sure I can be successful at it, before taking the plunge. That can be a good....looking before you leap...but not always. I try to emphasize to my kids, if you're not making mistakes, you're not learning. I inwardly cringe when they get a problem wrong. I remember when DS finally got some problems wrong in math. I was celebrating that we had found something he needed to learn. He was crushed. Crushed. He shut down for about 3months. He's Ok w/ it now after 2 more years of HSing but it was a huge blow to him initially.

 

That was the hard part about science....you live daily w/ failure. You have to make failure your friend and not take it personally. It was hard for me. I've really tried not to pass my perfectionism on to my kids but it appears to be genetic. My 7yr old was in school for K only. He's in RS D and he got some problems wrong and was banging himself in the head! I asked why he was doing that and he said b/c he got the problems wrong and it felt good to bang himself in the head. :001_huh: He's the one that screeches whenever he gets something wrong or doesn't understand something. He insists on sitting in on everything DS10 does and holds his own but sometimes what we're talking about goes over his head and he gets very frustrated and starts screeching and whining and crying. He will whine when he misses something in MCT Practice Town. And he will explain his reasoning "Well, I didn't think it was an participle phrase b/c it's not doing XYZ, and I thought perhaps it was a gerund phrase but ABC," so I talk a lot about things being developmentally appropriate, and everyone's brain develops at a different rate and most 7yr olds aren't exposed to gerunds and participles and it was OK that he labeled it a participle when it was really a gerund.

 

Can you tell I'm stilling sitting in the waiting room? :lol:

[HappyGrace]

Capt Uhura-I grew up the same way as your first sentence was. The book I referenced above, really opened my eyes to see that people like us possess a "fixed" mindset rather than a "growth" mindset. Now that I'm more conscious of it from the book, I really am finding new ways to work toward a "growth" mindset, AND trying to encourage it in my dc!

 

BTW, for those who are wondering-the "mindset" stuff makes it sound like the book might be "New Age-y" but I am a conservative Christian and it is not like that.

[swimmermom3]

Raising Smart Kids :)

 

You are fabulous! I have mentioned this article a couple of times on the board but could never get the whole thing on here. I would only be slightly dramatic in saying that the article has haunted me.

[Capt_Uhura]

Happy Grace - I ordered the book! I really do think people can do mostly whatever they set out to achieve....if your mind can conceive it, it can achieve it. But even that can be taken to extreme. I will push myself to I about drop b/c I feel like if I just work harder, do more, expend more energy, I can do it and do it well.....I will never give myself permission to be lazy. It's all such a tight-rope act, isn't?

 

I read an article about the drawbacks of having HG+ kids grouped with normally-developing peers. Rather than have a big head and believe that intelligence is innate, many of those kids don't understand why their peers just don't try harder. they see most of their peers as slackers....if they only read more, studied harder, they too could be taking Alg1 in 4th grade.

 

still in the waiting room... I wonder what's going on? They should have called me back by now.....:confused:

[swimmermom3]

Happy Grace - I ordered the book! I really do think people can do mostly whatever they set out to achieve....if your mind can conceive it, it can achieve it. But even that can be taken to extreme. I will push myself to I about drop b/c I feel like if I just work harder, do more, expend more energy, I can do it and do it well.....I will never give myself permission to be lazy. It's all such a tight-rope act, isn't?

 

I read an article about the drawbacks of having HG+ kids grouped with normally-developing peers. Rather than have a big head and believe that intelligence is innate, many of those kids don't understand why their peers just don't try harder. they see most of their peers as slackers....if they only read more, studied harder, they too could be taking Alg1 in 4th grade.

 

still in the waiting room... I wonder what's going on? They should have called me back by now.....:confused:

 

Capt. Uhura, this feeling of being an impostor plays a significant role in my dd's depression. From an early age everyone (not just us) was telling her how she was so fortunate to have it all: brains, looks, and a pleasant demeanor. Somewhere around 6th grade, she just shut down academically because school got harder and she would not ask for help. She is still terrified of looking "stupid." As a result, she did not develop the basic study skills that help ensure success in high school. She is bright but not gifted so sliding in high school is not easy. Add that to the fact that she has no idea how to play the education game and you have a recipe for near-disaster.

 

As there are no do-overs you can only move forward. We work on it daily but it would have been easier and far less painful to address this in the middle school years or perhaps even earlier.

[forty-two]

Capt. Uhura, this feeling of being an impostor plays a significant role in my dd's depression. From an early age everyone (not just us) was telling her how she was so fortunate to have it all: brains, looks, and a pleasant demeanor. Somewhere around 6th grade, she just shut down academically because school got harder and she would not ask for help. She is still terrified of looking "stupid." As a result, she did not develop the basic study skills that help ensure success in high school. She is bright but not gifted so sliding in high school is not easy. Add that to the fact that she has no idea how to play the education game and you have a recipe for near-disaster.

 

As there are no do-overs you can only move forward. We work on it daily but it would have been easier and far less painful to address this in the middle school years or perhaps even earlier.

But at least addressing it in high school is easier than doing so in college :grouphug:. I ended up depressed my junior year in college over my inability to adjust my expectations and study methods finally catching up to me - dropped out of college over it (after wasting several thousand dollars on flunked classes :glare:) and it took years to recover (and I *still* haven't managed to truly figure out how to break old habits :glare:).

 

I was too used to breezing through classes, and on top of that had the attitude that the mark of a smart person was not having to study or do any work to succeed :glare: - the very thing decried in that article. Being able to teach my dc at their level, provide an appropriate challenge, is one of the big reasons I want to hs. And the thing is that my parents have a wonderful work ethic, were big on me doing my best, whatever it was - *they* weren't the ones putting the "smart = not having to work" ideas in my head. I did internalize their work ethic as being a good thing, but never had to put it into practice, which turned out to be a big problem when I finally was in a position to need it. I don't think my parents realized the problems that can stem from never being challenged, as my mom is the sort to work hard whether she needs to or not, because that is what is expected, and my dad was able to go from slacker to hard worker practically overnight as soon as he realized he needed to. But I saw no reason to put in more effort than required (still don't, even when reality indicates otherwise :001_huh:), and I turned out to be unable to change that even when I needed to :(.

[Debbie in OR]

From an early age everyone (not just us) was telling her how she was so fortunate to have it all: brains, looks, and a pleasant demeanor. Somewhere around 6th grade, she just shut down academically because school got harder and she would not ask for help. She is still terrified of looking "stupid." She is bright but not gifted

 

This sounds so much like my ds. I think that's why your post grabbed me. It's relieving to me, too, to focus on effort in skills rather than thinking he should be able to do things because he's smart (but not gifted by any stretch).

 

I'm not sure where I got ahold of the article on Raising Smart Kids but my dh and I read it several weeks ago and that left us both concerned that we had passed the point of being able to redeem our mistakes. My dh, who is a child and family therapist, said after reading it that he was going to change how he does therapy...I mean, really, it changes everything.

 

I appreciate your honesty about how hard it is to implement...it makes me feel like we have a chance! :tongue_smilie:

[Guest]

The feeling of impostership still haunts me too. I have had recurring dreams in which I had to retake my PhD exams, but I had to do it by cooking a multi-course dinner for my professors. The dream goes into this in detail, and then it ends when one of them takes me into the hall and says kindly but firmly, "I'm so sorry, but you flunked dessert."

[Kareni]

The dream goes into this in detail, and then it ends when one of them takes me into the hall and says kindly but firmly, "I'm so sorry, but you flunked dessert."

 

KarenAnne,

 

This is horrible but hilarious. I hope you'll have no more dreams of this nature.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[swimmermom3]

The feeling of impostership still haunts me too. I have had recurring dreams in which I had to retake my PhD exams, but I had to do it by cooking a multi-course dinner for my professors. The dream goes into this in detail, and then it ends when one of them takes me into the hall and says kindly but firmly, "I'm so sorry, but you flunked dessert."

 

:lol::crying: It has been 14 years since graduate school and I still occasionally wake up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding because I had that horrible "What are you doing here? The final worth 90% of your grade was yesterday," dream again.

 

The ultimate in the impostor trauma for me was going in to see my Finance case study professor to tell him that I could not have earned an A in that class.

 

Like Kareni said, your dream is horribly funny. I can totally relate to fear of failure in school and the kitchen.:tongue_smilie:

[Capt_Uhura]

We all must be twins separated at birth. It's been awhile since I've had those dreams but they were vivid. I recall the dream of defending my dissertation and my mind just going blank. And then walking into the classroom not knowing we were having a final that day. Those dreams were replaced with my going somewhere and forgetting the kids or forgetting to feed the baby for a week. :lol:

 

I too have a fear of failure in the kitchen. Relating back to my prior post, it's trying a recipe and having it taste awful. Failure....for everyone to taste...not to mention money wasted....not to mention what then will we have for dinner? So I play it safe with things I feel are in my comfort zone. I keep saying I want to take a cooking class...and then I listen to SWB's talk on Educating Ourselves how we think that we need experts to teach us....that we can't learn on our own..... I don't know....but cooking, I certainly learn better by watching someone else do it. I HATE HATE HATE trial and error. I want to do it w/ someone and have them say, "yes that's the right thickness. No, add a bit more thickening agent." rather than at the end, have it come out to runny. I can so see the parallels with cooking and my education.......

 

I wonder if my picture is next to perfectionist in the dictionary......I think lack of challenge breeds perfectionism in some personality types like mine.

[swimmermom3]

This sounds so much like my ds. I think that's why your post grabbed me. It's relieving to me, too, to focus on effort in skills rather than thinking he should be able to do things because he's smart (but not gifted by any stretch).

 

I'm not sure where I got ahold of the article on Raising Smart Kids but my dh and I read it several weeks ago and that left us both concerned that we had passed the point of being able to redeem our mistakes. My dh, who is a child and family therapist, said after reading it that he was going to change how he does therapy...I mean, really, it changes everything.

 

I appreciate your honesty about how hard it is to implement...it makes me feel like we have a chance! :tongue_smilie:

 

Debbie, I am wired to think that there is always a chance, although I'll admit to feeling a little shaky on those grounds recently.

 

For me, it is as much about my attitude towards work as it is my kids'. For much of my life, I have been the "bring-it-on" extremist and part of that in looking back was due to how I wanted to "appear" to the outside world, not necessarily from an inner drive. Now, when it is most critical for my kids to see me modeling a "can-do" attitude, I can't. I am too dang tired and I certainly find it difficult to be motivated by repeating the same task of cleaning the kitchen 6 times a day and removing kitty upchuck from the carpeted landing (which is a foot away from a concrete basement floor-perverts!).

 

How can I expect my kids not to grumble about math when I am grumbling about cooking dinner? It is not only kids that are hard to retrain.:tongue_smilie:

 

Debbie, I don't think the article is the end-all, be-all answer, but I do think it will resonate with many of us and give us options that perhaps we had not considered. Please tell your dh that I received the original article from my dd's counselor.

[Corraleno]

The feeling of impostership still haunts me too. I have had recurring dreams in which I had to retake my PhD exams, but I had to do it by cooking a multi-course dinner for my professors. The dream goes into this in detail, and then it ends when one of them takes me into the hall and says kindly but firmly, "I'm so sorry, but you flunked dessert."

:lol:

:lol::crying: It has been 14 years since graduate school and I still occasionally wake up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding because I had that horrible "What are you doing here? The final worth 90% of your grade was yesterday," dream again.

I still have exactly the same dream! (and I've been out of grad school for a lot longer than 14 yrs :tongue_smilie:)

Those dreams were replaced with my going somewhere and forgetting the kids or forgetting to feed the baby for a week. :lol:

I still have the "OMG I forgot the kids!" dream, too. As for the 2nd one, my DH actually does forget to feed the kids, so I always have that dream when I'm away from home and DH is in charge!

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

OT: (Pssst, Lisa, your PM box is full!)

 

Jackie

[Sunshine State Sue]

The "what" is glamorous; the "how" is hard work.

Okay. Feeling very stoooopid, I don't understand this quote. Can you elaborate? I just had to ask now that Corraleno has it in her signature.

[Corraleno]

Okay. Feeling very stoooopid, I don't understand this quote. Can you elaborate? I just had to ask now that Corraleno has it in her signature.

The "what" is the content; the fun part of homeschooling is researching curriculum, choosing books, having great discussions, etc. The "how" is the skills — teaching kids organizational & analytical skills, teaching writing, instilling a sense of self-motivation and the concept that hard work and effort are more important than innate ability, etc. That's the difficult, unfun stuff (especially when dealing with middle schoolers!), and yet teaching kids how to learn is ultimately more important than cramming them full of content.

 

Jackie

[elegantlion]

The "what" is the content; the fun part of homeschooling is researching curriculum, choosing books, having great discussions, etc. The "how" is the skills — teaching kids organizational & analytical skills, teaching writing, instilling a sense of self-motivation and the concept that hard work and effort are more important than innate ability, etc. That's the difficult, unfun stuff (especially when dealing with middle schoolers!), and yet teaching kids how to learn is ultimately more important than cramming them full of content.

 

Jackie

 

Love it!:D

 

Great discussion...and as usual is adding to my amazon cart. *sigh* Off to read the article.

[swimmermom3]

We all must be twins separated at birth. It's been awhile since I've had those dreams but they were vivid. I recall the dream of defending my dissertation and my mind just going blank. And then walking into the classroom not knowing we were having a final that day. Those dreams were replaced with my going somewhere and forgetting the kids or forgetting to feed the baby for a week. :lol:

 

I too have a fear of failure in the kitchen. Relating back to my prior post, it's trying a recipe and having it taste awful. Failure....for everyone to taste...not to mention money wasted....not to mention what then will we have for dinner? So I play it safe with things I feel are in my comfort zone. I keep saying I want to take a cooking class...and then I listen to SWB's talk on Educating Ourselves how we think that we need experts to teach us....that we can't learn on our own..... I don't know....but cooking, I certainly learn better by watching someone else do it. I HATE HATE HATE trial and error. I want to do it w/ someone and have them say, "yes that's the right thickness. No, add a bit more thickening agent." rather than at the end, have it come out to runny. I can so see the parallels with cooking and my education.......

 

I wonder if my picture is next to perfectionist in the dictionary......I think lack of challenge breeds perfectionism in some personality types like mine.

 

Aghhhhhh! Capt. Uhura said the "P" word. I'm telling.:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

Honestly, I think that word has caused women more trouble through the ages than unprotected s@x.:tongue_smilie:

[Corraleno]

Aghhhhhh! Capt. Uhura said the "P" word. I'm telling.:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

Honestly, I think that word has caused women more trouble through the ages than unprotected s@x.:tongue_smilie:

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Jackie

[swimmermom3]

The "what" is the content; the fun part of homeschooling is researching curriculum, choosing books, having great discussions, etc. The "how" is the skills — teaching kids organizational & analytical skills, teaching writing, instilling a sense of self-motivation and the concept that hard work and effort are more important than innate ability, etc. That's the difficult, unfun stuff (especially when dealing with middle schoolers!), and yet teaching kids how to learn is ultimately more important than cramming them full of content.

 

Jackie

 

Exactly! Thanks, Jackie. Sorry about the pm box.You send me so much good stuff, I have to save it.:D

[Matryoshka]

The "what" is "glamorous; the "how" is hard work. Teaching skills to hormonal half-wits requires more consistency, patience, and self-discipline than I sometimes possess.

 

Amen. Although this year I'm wondering if I'm getting any skills *or* content into their hormonal noggins. :glare:

[swimmermom3]

Amen. Although this year I'm wondering if I'm getting any skills *or* content into their hormonal noggins. :glare:

 

Well, yes. My oldest hormonal half-wit whose brain resides in the Adolescent Brain Repository just sent me the following text:

 

"Just so we know we are at Janet's."

 

I am glad to know that she knows where she is.:tongue_smilie: I received that text 5 minutes after I discovered the ham and cheese that the middle one left in the bread drawer for four hours.

[Capt_Uhura]

Aghhhhhh! Capt. Uhura said the "P" word. I'm telling.:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

Honestly, I think that word has caused women more trouble through the ages than unprotected s@x.:tongue_smilie:

 

:lol::

 

Exactly! Thanks, Jackie. Sorry about the pm box.You send me so much good stuff, I have to save it.

Yes, Jackie's PMs are loading up my PM box as well! So much good stuff! :D

[sagira]

I read this somewhere before. Now, how in the world do you teach your children that effort is more important than innate ability? Especially when they've already decided (at the tender age of 7) that they are not good at math (or whatever it is that they struggle with) just because it's hard.

 

We're heading the same way with my ds, who's also 7. I really don't want to fail him.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Capt. Uhura, this feeling of being an impostor plays a significant role in my dd's depression. From an early age everyone (not just us) was telling her how she was so fortunate to have it all: brains, looks, and a pleasant demeanor. Somewhere around 6th grade, she just shut down academically because school got harder and she would not ask for help. She is still terrified of looking "stupid." As a result, she did not develop the basic study skills that help ensure success in high school. She is bright but not gifted so sliding in high school is not easy. Add that to the fact that she has no idea how to play the education game and you have a recipe for near-disaster.

 

As there are no do-overs you can only move forward. We work on it daily but it would have been easier and far less painful to address this in the middle school years or perhaps even earlier.

I think our daughters must be sisters. This describes my DD perfectly, except my DD went to public school and I was always fighting the 'it's good enough for the teacher' argument.

[swimmermom3]

I think our daughters must be sisters. This describes my DD perfectly, except my DD went to public school and I was always fighting the 'it's good enough for the teacher' argument.

 

My dd is our child who has never been home schooled until this year. The greatest disservice any teacher ever did for that child was to tell her that Bs are just fine and the Cs are normal. Now, before you all jump on me, I know what that teacher was trying to say but my dd took her literally. She now had a valid excuse not to put forth effort.

 

That is a hard battle to fight because it happens about the time that they learn that you are not infallible and your credibility can take a bit of a beating.