Is Singapore the right choice?

[SabrinainPA]

Would you please help me decide on a math program for a very bright 7 year old boy? Because of circumstances in our lives last school year, I never did do any real academic work with him. Now that he is 7, I am slowly getting him into pencil-on-paper type work. He does computations very quickly in his head. He seems so suited to Singapore, but I feel there is a great deal to the TM, and wonder if I will do the program justice if I am terrible at using TMs. I gave him placement tests this week, and he placed into TT 4 and Saxon 5/4. There is just an understanding that he has with numbers and math that is telling me to go with Singapore.

 

I guess my question boils down to, with four children to teach, and a schedule that already fills the day ... will Singapore be my undoing? Thanks.

[SonshineLearner]

I love it. http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematics-Understanding/dp/0415873843/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1292691394&sr=1-1 You'll wanna read this book first. It's worth the $$$ and a small book. You can have your olders do some of the games in it with your son. Also, I think that between the reading of the Liping Ma book and looking at the curriculum and the TM you can kinda get a feel for incorporating the material into your daily life.

 

:)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I personally would use Saxon. I have used Singapore and BJU in the past and I find Saxon more thorough (in my opinion) and far more teacher friendly. When you get to 5/4 and up, the textbook is written to the student. They can eventually work independently for math (unless he has a question, etc). My son, who isn't a math kid, reads his lesson and does all of his work himself. I make corrections and then have him correct his errors. If he gets the problem wrong a second time, I sit down and work through it with him (this is rare). He is in 5/4 this year. I can't say enough about Saxon.

 

Singapore is a good math program, but it required a lot more of me as the parent, especially in the upper grades where there isn't such a thorough solutions manual (just answers whereas Saxon actually shows you step by step how to solve the problem). I feel like Saxon has everything Singapore has, but Singapore doesn't offer everything Saxon offers...again, just my opinion.

 

Edited to add - I also have 4 children, so I completely understand how difficult it is to get through it all in a day.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Charleigh
Edited to add: I also have 4 children, so I truly understand

[blessedmom3]

Saxon and Singapore . Or even better : CLE & Singapore.That's what I am doing with my 7yo boy. From Singapore I like Intensive Practice and CWP , but occasionally I am using the textbooks WP and exercises.

[Crimson Wife]

A bright kid may very well be horrendously bored by all the repetition built into Saxon. I wouldn't personally use it.

 

If you like the idea of using Asian-style math but want something that is all-in-one and easy to teach, look into Math Mammoth.

[wapiti]

A bright kid may very well be horrendously bored by all the repetition built into Saxon. I wouldn't personally use it.

 

If you like the idea of using Asian-style math but want something that is all-in-one and easy to teach, look into Math Mammoth.

 

:iagree:

 

I was very, very interested in Singapore until I started reading about MM here. Now I'm planning to buy MM shortly :) . MM is more my style, and I like that it's more incremental than Singapore. I love the thought of not having a teacher's manual.

 

DD9 (who admittedly has her own special combination of strengths and weaknesses - mathematically inclined but struggling with language) used Saxon during the first part of school this year, and frequently says that she "hates" Saxon. Looking at the TOC for Saxon, it spirals so much it makes me dizzy. It's just not for us. Look into old posts on the Accelerated Learner board for various opinions on Saxon for bright kids.

 

FWIW, I'm also hoping to use MM for both my very mathy ds7s who are quickly catching up to dd9 in math (she stagnated at school, thus we pulled her to hs), though they're still in school, so we'll see what we have time for...

 

Good luck - choosing math feels like my biggest curriculum decision!

[Alice]

I use Singapore for my 7 yr old. He is "mathy" and I find that it works well for him. We just finished 2A and he could probably go faster but I also use MEP and we do a lot of the challenging word problems a well. I don't find that it is very teacher intensive for a mathy kid. It may be different at the higher levels or for a kid who doesn't have a good natural understanding of numbers, but for us it's been a great fit. I feel like the IP book and the CWP book in particular give him just the right amount of challenge.

[katilac]

I dont' find Singapore to be time-intensive, but I readily admit to not doing a lot of the activities in the instructor guide //hangs head in shame//. It's great to have them, but if dd 'gets it' then we usually just do the work. We've always done a good bit of the mental math practice, but not the games, making manipulatives, etc.

 

Of course, I'm also perfectly content with the text and work book, whereas some substitute or even ADD IN intensive practice and challenging word problems.

[SabrinainPA]

Thank you everyone! Math is always my source of :confused:. There are so many programs, each with its own strength, IMO. And only so many hours in the day ....

[boscopup]

A bright kid may very well be horrendously bored by all the repetition built into Saxon. I wouldn't personally use it.

 

If you like the idea of using Asian-style math but want something that is all-in-one and easy to teach, look into Math Mammoth.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

My son was bored to tears with Saxon in school. He much, much, much prefers Math Mammoth. Saxon is sooooo slowly incremental that it's painful for a kid that gets math quickly and easily. It was painful for me just looking at it. I was bored too! :lol:

 

MM is very easy to teach, and there's no TM to worry about. I love it!

[imhim]

I am doing Singapore 2A for my 7 yo. When I looked into MM, also good, it seemed to me that it is a bit behind. Never tried it, though, and people here say it is very good.

I use everything Txbook, Wkbook, HIG, CWP, IP. DD not naturally mathy, but very good because of the program. Much more advanced than Abeka, which she also uses, but just the workbook.

 

Oh, I teach the math using the HIG. But she gets it very quickly.

[boscopup]

I am doing Singapore 2A for my 7 yo. When I looked into MM, also good, it seemed to me that it is a bit behind.

 

They have a different scope and sequence when it comes to multiplication. Singapore introduces it in 1B, and MM introduces it in 2B. That's the only major difference I saw when looking at them, and they end up in the same place. They both seem to do similar things by years 4-6.

[Little Nyssa]

Hi! DS6 is using Singapore 1. We've never used any other program. It has been very easy to use. We just look at the textbook & workbook and it's all there. I don't do any preparation at all. I don't even look at it before our lesson.

This is probably different for higher levels, but I have not read the teacher manual at all-- if there even is one for 1A and 1B. :001_smile: I don't know if there is or not. Haven't needed it.

I am supplementing with Games for Math.

[EKS]

Singapore is an excellent program. However, you really need to know how to teach the "Singapore way" to do it justice. The HIG helps with this, but so does having an excellent understanding of elementary math. Have you read Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics by Liping Ma? It will help get you in the right mindset to teach SM without the HIG.

[SabrinainPA]

Singapore is an excellent program. However, you really need to know how to teach the "Singapore way" to do it justice. The HIG helps with this ...

 

This is exactly what has me hesitating. I have used the CWP, IP, WB and text before with other children, but never really did it justice. It is the whole program that I believe holds the value I am looking for. I am so worried about not giving math its due - but equally fearful of letting it swallow up our day. I just have not found our groove with adding a little one who really needs some TLC at this point.

 

Thank you. I really do not post much, but this board is a source of encouragement to me each every day.

[EKS]

I am so worried about not giving math its due - but equally fearful of letting it swallow up our day.

 

Singapore won't swallow up your day. At least with my kids, one lesson per day takes *far* less time than a Saxon lesson would. Even if you add in extras--fact practice, CWP, IP--it shouldn't take more than 45 minutes or so.

[texasmama]

Singapore is an excellent program. However, you really need to know how to teach the "Singapore way" to do it justice. The HIG helps with this, but so does having an excellent understanding of elementary math. Have you read Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics by Liping Ma? It will help get you in the right mindset to teach SM without the HIG.

 

Adding to this comment...

 

The HIGs for Singapore gave me more anxiety rather than more help. (I'm weird that way.:tongue_smilie:) I read the Liping Ma book, developed an understanding of the "whys" behind the method and have marched forward. I am not mathy. Singapore does not eat up our day. We use the textbooks and the workbooks. We supplement with Life of Fred in the summers. Both of my boys are very mathy. If they struggle with a concept, we attack it from a different angle, get a supplementary program/book and take some time for them to grasp it. This is what we did last year with fractions and used two supplementary programs in the summer to address it. I don't find Singapore hard to teach. Granted, my oldest son is at the end of 4A so we haven't made it through the entire series, but so far, so good. :001_smile: We do use the CWP and/or IP most days, in addition to the texts and workbooks.

[Dmmetler]

One other option if you want something for you before (or while) working on Singapore is that if you have access to Ed2Go, they have two Singapore math teacher training classes, one focused on how basic operations are taught, and one focused on problem solving and model drawing from about 3rd grade through algebra. They're not very expensive, and I've found them (and the saved materials from them) FAR more useful than the HIGs.

 

A suggestion on Ed2Go. In my area, there are at least four schools that I could have taken the class through-and the cost per Ed2Go class was different. It's the exact same class, taught by the same person, in the same group. The only question is whether the certificate you can print out at the end says "So and So Community College" or "Big State University".

 

I haven't used Math mammoth, but two other thoughts on Singapore.

 

My DD LOVES having real books, and doesn't consider printed out pages the same. Apparently, in PS, Kindergarten mostly had reproducible pages and worksheets, while the BIG kids had books. So for her, having a math BOOK-and especially, having a book that you DON'T write in (so far, it's all been math she can do mentally, although starting in 2A there are practice sections) was a big deal.

 

Conversely, some folks HATE Singapore workbooks because it's next to impossible to get them to lie flat unless you totally break the binding in multiple places. It hasn't seemed to bother my DD (and I don't mind breaking the binding to get a book to lie flat-I do that for piano music all the time), but I know it has driven others crazy on this board.

[SabrinainPA]

Singapore won't swallow up your day. At least with my kids, one lesson per day takes *far* less time than a Saxon lesson would. Even if you add in extras--fact practice, CWP, IP--it shouldn't take more than 45 minutes or so.

 

By this, I was speaking about math for everyone. I try to touch base with each child each day. I have,at times, lost touch with their particular program, and the methods used. I hate when that happens!

[anabelneri]

I just wanted to mention MEP... it's free, and it's great for developing mental math skills. There is a teacher's manual (also free), that lays out each day for a class of kids to take 45 minutes. I've found that it doesn't take ME 45 minutes, but I let Sweetie loose with the day's page, and then we'll do the oral part. Most days the oral part only takes us 10-20 minutes.

 

I'll also add another voice in favor of the Liping Ma book. So good!

 

Good luck figuring it all out!

:)

[kalanamak]

 

I was very, very interested in Singapore until I started reading about MM here. Now I'm planning to buy MM shortly :) . MM is more my style, and I like that it's more incremental than Singapore. I love the thought of not having a teacher's manual.

 

1) I only go to the TM for the rare subject here and there that kiddo is stumped on. The further in we go, the less I use the TM. I love how little there is in SM, because (and I have this luxury as the mother of an only) I love to teach it. The mental challenge of teaching math has turned out to be in the top 5 "best things that ever happened to me" thus far in life. I feel both of us would be bored with a more lock-step program. It not only is math, it, to me, is more...it is, until he is older and more ready for the subtleties of language, the mental exercise we most share. We have bonded over math.

 

2) MM has small spaces to write. My son writes reasonably neatly, but not small. I've only used MM for long division, and we have to copy everything out onto another piece of paper. SM has just a little bigger printing and spaces, and that makes a difference to me. I won't get any more MM until his writing is smaller.

 

3) For a change of pace, for cost of printing only, MEP is online. (It too is a big cramped.)

[Bird Girl]

For what it's worth, I rarely use the teacher's manual. We go over the lesson in the textbook, do the questions on a white board, and then she does the exercises in the workbook. We follow each chapter with the same topic in the Intensive Practice workbook--she can go do that without pre-teaching, although we do sometimes go over a particular problem. I am very comfortable with elementary math, but not a particular math genius or anything. The textbook is pretty explicit about how each idea should be thought about and introduces any vocabulary that you need.

[fastforward]

I dont' find Singapore to be time-intensive, but I readily admit to not doing a lot of the activities in the instructor guide //hangs head in shame//. It's great to have them, but if dd 'gets it' then we usually just do the work. We've always done a good bit of the mental math practice, but not the games, making manipulatives, etc.

 

Of course, I'm also perfectly content with the text and work book, whereas some substitute or even ADD IN intensive practice and challenging word problems.

 

I do the same with my daughter. We don't do a lot of the extra games because if we did, then Singapore would take up our whole day. Like your daughter, if she gets it, she gets it and we move along.

 

FWIW, I treat the HIG the same way -- if I can teach the concept without it, then I do. If I need some guidance, I don't hesitate to reach for the HIG. I am not strong in math, either, so often I do find myself using the HIG. I just don't feel bogged down by it or anything.

 

 

Saxon and Singapore . Or even better : CLE & Singapore.That's what I am doing with my 7yo boy. From Singapore I like Intensive Practice and CWP , but occasionally I am using the textbooks WP and exercises.

 

 

How do you combine CLE and Singapore? I'm currently using Singapore with one child and CLE with another, but want to add in CLE.

Edited December 20, 2010 by fastforward
Adding another point

[FO4UR]

Math Mammoth - It's a lot like Singapore, but in one worktext. :iagree:

 

My 7yo is a slow reader, and I do a lot of scribing for him in math and sometimes just do most of it orally in MM.