I've GOT to know the answer to this grammar conundrum - help me, please

[Kathleen in VA]

I'm kind of a grammar nut. I think about subjects and verbs agreeing and hyphenating two-word adjectives and whether I should say less or fewer and amount or number. These things matter to me waaaay more than they should, but I'm almost 52 years old - I'm not going to change. So please someone humor me.

 

Why does it sound fine to say, "There is lots of food"?

 

If you take away the prepositional phrase "of food" you're left with "There is lots." Lots is plural, so shouldn't it be "There are lots"? But if you say, "There are lots of food," it sounds stupid. Why is that?

 

We say, "There are lots of animals," and "There are lots of people." Why does "There are lots of food" sound wrong?

 

Probably the bigger question is why in the world does it bother me????

[Aggie]

My dh, a self-professed anti-grammarian, says:

 

"h-o-m-e spells home and

 

c-o-m-b spells comb"

 

IOW, sometimes English makes NO sense.

[Caitilin]

I think it's because food is a noun with no specific numbering attached to it. People are always individuals, even when considered in the aggregate, but food is an innumerate quantity. You would also say "there's lots of laundry" b/c there is no one laundry to have. You have pieces of food, and pieces of laundry. That's my opinion! :D

[justasque]

I agree - I think it's because "food" and "laundry" are singular, sort of. Ish.

[Kathleen in VA]

I agree - I think it's because "food" and "laundry" are singular, sort of. Ish.

 

But isn't the word I'm trying to "agree" with the verb "lots" not "food"? Lots is plural.

 

The object of the preposition "of" shouldn't really play into whether the verb is singular or plural (is/are), should it? I've been teaching my kids to cross out all the prepositional phrases and then figure out the subject/verb agreement. If you do that in this case, it doesn't work - or if it does, it sounds really dumb.

 

I get the idea that food and laundry sound singular, but since they are objects of a preposition why does that matter?

 

I think you're right, btw. I just don't understand why it's like that.

[Dawn in OH]

I *think* it's because food is singular. It can be more than one type/peice of food, but it's food as a collective, making it singular. For example: "There is lots of food to chose from."

 

 

Are would be used when saying, "There are lots of foods that are good for you". In this case food is not singular.

 

 

 

 

Ok, now I've been thinking about this for so long that, "There is lots of food" now sounds completely wrong to me. I give up!

[justasque]

I think you're right, btw. I just don't understand why it's like that.

 

Me neither. Maybe if you use "a lot of food" it works out? And "lots" is a shorter version? I'm guessing Grammar Girl has a podcast about this, but it's too late to bother looking it up...

[mo2]

Can we just solve it by saying there is "a lot" of food?

[newlifemom]

weighing in here:

 

The verb is is agreeing with the indefine pronoun there. I think.

 

Personally, I do not like the sentence or using the word lots in this context. Now my dh would happily inform you all that I am no grammar expert so you need to take anything I say with a grain of salt. :tongue_smilie: [Mind you that is Lindt dark chocolate with a grain (or two) of sea salt.] :D

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Can we just solve it by saying there is "a lot" of food?

 

 

That's what I was going to say. I wouldn't say, "There is lots of food." I would say, "There's a lot of food."

[Caitilin]

But isn't the word I'm trying to "agree" with the verb "lots" not "food"? Lots is plural.

 

The object of the preposition "of" shouldn't really play into whether the verb is singular or plural (is/are), should it? I've been teaching my kids to cross out all the prepositional phrases and then figure out the subject/verb agreement. If you do that in this case, it doesn't work - or if it does, it sounds really dumb.

 

I get the idea that food and laundry sound singular, but since they are objects of a preposition why does that matter?

 

I think you're right, btw. I just don't understand why it's like that.

 

 

Isn't it because what we are saying is this:

There is food. How much? Lots of [food].

 

So, isn't it that way because "lots of" is acting adjectivally in the sentence? We aren't really saying what there is is "lots"; what there is is food. It's analogous to "there is too much food" isn't it?

[orangearrow]

That's what I was going to say. I wouldn't say, "There is lots of food." I would say, "There's a lot of food."

 

 

:iagree:

[Kathleen in VA]

Isn't it because what we are saying is this:

There is food. How much? Lots of [food].

 

So, isn't it that way because "lots of" is acting adjectivally in the sentence? We aren't really saying what there is is "lots"; what there is is food. It's analogous to "there is too much food" isn't it?

 

This makes so much sense!!! Yes, yes, yes - I think you've got something here. Thanks! Now maybe I'll be able to sleep well tonight. Many, many, many thanks Caitilin.:)

[Saille]

I think it's because "lots" has become a semantic stand-in for "plenty". See, if you said, "There is plenty of food," that would be just fine.

[Kathleen in VA]

I think it's because "lots" has become a semantic stand-in for "plenty". See, if you said, "There is plenty of food," that would be just fine.

 

This makes sense too. As if you're saying, "There's food and plenty of it."

[plansrme]

In formal English, I believe "lot" is a noun, and the direct object would be the singular "lot," with "of food" as the prepositional phrase modifying "lot." In informal English, however, "lot" and "lots" are adjectives meaning "much" or "many." As it turns out, according to my source (linked below), either "lots of food" or "a lot of food" is correct in informal English. Specifically:

 

A lot of/lots of:

 

 

"A lot of" and "lots of" are informal substitutes for much and many. They are used with uncountable nouns when they mean "much" and with countable nouns when they mean "many."

• "They have lots of (much) money in the bank."
  
• "A lot of (many) Americans travel to Europe."
  
• "We got lots of (many) mosquitoes last summer."
  
• "We got lots of (much) rain last summer."
  

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/537/01/

 

As an aside, have you ever read The Great Typo Hunt: Two Friends Changing the World One Correction at a Time? It is not just about typos but includes some deep musings on the philosophy of grammar that you might enjoy.

 

Terri

[Margo out of lurking]

I'm kind of a grammar nut. I think about subjects and verbs agreeing and hyphenating two-word adjectives and whether I should say less or fewer and amount or number. These things matter to me waaaay more than they should, but I'm almost 52 years old - I'm not going to change. So please someone humor me.

 

Why does it sound fine to say, "There is lots of food"?

 

If you take away the prepositional phrase "of food" you're left with "There is lots." Lots is plural, so shouldn't it be "There are lots"? But if you say, "There are lots of food," it sounds stupid. Why is that?

 

 

I ponder those questions also, but I never have time to double check everything. (Double-check, right?)

 

I don't believe "is lots of food" is correct. "There is a lot of food."

 

(I catch myself several times a week asking one of my children, "Where are you at?" when they have a question about math. I cringe every.single.time.)

[Kathleen in VA]

In formal English, I believe "lot" is a noun, and the direct object would be the singular "lot," with "of food" as the prepositional phrase modifying "lot." In informal English, however, "lot" and "lots" are adjectives meaning "much" or "many." As it turns out, according to my source (linked below), either "lots of food" or "a lot of food" is correct in informal English. Specifically:

 

A lot of/lots of:

 

 

"A lot of" and "lots of" are informal substitutes for much and many. They are used with uncountable nouns when they mean "much" and with countable nouns when they mean "many."

 

• "They have lots of (much) money in the bank."

• "A lot of (many) Americans travel to Europe."

• "We got lots of (many) mosquitoes last summer."

• "We got lots of (much) rain last summer."

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/537/01/

 

As an aside, have you ever read The Great Typo Hunt: Two Friends Changing the World One Correction at a Time? It is not just about typos but includes some deep musings on the philosophy of grammar that you might enjoy.

 

Terri

 

Thanks, Terri. I guess I've heard "lots of" and "a lot of" used so regularly that I never considered them to be informal, but when you explain the connection to much and many I see it.

 

Thanks for the book recommendation, too. I am now #21 on my library's hold list for this title.:)

[Testimony]

I've never heard it that way.

 

I have always heard "there's a lot of food."

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I haven't read the replies but...

it doesn't sound correct to me.

 

There is a lot of food.

 

Now that sounds correct.

 

---

ETA: Just read through the thread. Yeah - I'm not alone in my way of thinking.

Edited November 23, 2010 by The Dragon Academy

[Nestof3]

You're right, the agreement should have nothing to do with the prepostional phrase. I don't get it either.

 

But isn't the word I'm trying to "agree" with the verb "lots" not "food"? Lots is plural.

 

The object of the preposition "of" shouldn't really play into whether the verb is singular or plural (is/are), should it? I've been teaching my kids to cross out all the prepositional phrases and then figure out the subject/verb agreement. If you do that in this case, it doesn't work - or if it does, it sounds really dumb.

 

I get the idea that food and laundry sound singular, but since they are objects of a preposition why does that matter?

 

I think you're right, btw. I just don't understand why it's like that.

[Nestof3]

You're right -- this sounds much better.

 

I haven't read the replies but...

it doesn't sound correct to me.

 

There is a lot of food.

 

Now that sounds correct.

 

---

ETA: Just read through the thread. Yeah - I'm not alone in my way of thinking.

[Halftime Hope]

although I hear it used very frequently, I believe that "lots of _____" is grammatically dubious, and that's the crux of the problem. The better form of usage would be "a lot of ____".

[silliness7]

Me neither. Maybe if you use "a lot of food" it works out? And "lots" is a shorter version? I'm guessing Grammar Girl has a podcast about this, but it's too late to bother looking it up...

 

That was my thought, that "lots" wasn't quite proper but more colloquial. Then I tried the sentences...

There is a lot of food.

There are a lot of animals.

 

Same problem in reverse.

 

Is it possible that lot can be either singular or plural depending on context and could it possibly pluralize irregularly in that context like 1 deer and 2 deer? I'm going to keep reading the thread. What a fun question.:001_smile:

 

ETA: There are plenty of animals. There is plenty of food. There is plenty of laundry. There are plenty of children. It still seems that the verb needs to agree with the object of the preposition. What an excellent question. Why?

Edited November 23, 2010 by silliness7

[silliness7]

O.K. I googled subject verb agreement and found a website that listed 20 rules. Here's their rule #10...

 

10. The only time when the object of the preposition factors into the decision of plural or singular verb forms is when noun and pronoun subjects like some, half, none, more, all, etc. are followed by a prepositional phrase. In these sentences, the object of the preposition determines the form of the verb.

 

 

All of the

chicken

is gone.All of the

chickens

are gone.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn something new every day. :001_smile:

 

[Kathleen in VA]

O.K. I googled subject verb agreement and found a website that listed 20 rules. Here's their rule #10...

 

10. The only time when the object of the preposition factors into the decision of plural or singular verb forms is when noun and pronoun subjects like some, half, none, more, all, etc. are followed by a prepositional phrase. In these sentences, the object of the preposition determines the form of the verb.

 

All of the

chicken

is gone.All of the

chickens

are gone.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn something new every day. :001_smile:

 

 

Wow. I wouldn't have guessed that in gazillion years. Do you have a link to that website?

[Rivka]

O.K. I googled subject verb agreement and found a website that listed 20 rules. Here's their rule #10...

 

10. The only time when the object of the preposition factors into the decision of plural or singular verb forms is when noun and pronoun subjects like some, half, none, more, all, etc. are followed by a prepositional phrase. In these sentences, the object of the preposition determines the form of the verb.

 

 

All of the

chicken

is gone.All of the

chickens

are gone.

 

 

 

 

 

Learn something new every day. :001_smile:

But there's also a mass noun/count noun thing going on here, isn't there?

 

There is plenty of food. There are plenty of people. There is plenty of milk. There are plenty of rolls. There is plenty of snow; plenty of snowballs are in my pile already.

 

Man. Now the word "plenty" looks weird to me. :lol:

[KidsHappen]

Kathleen, thanks for asking this question. This is something that I have found perplexing for awhile but just never bothered to look up or ask. My son says, "Mayo are nasty." His reasoning was that if you could have some of something that that signified a quanity of more than one therefore it was plural and it needed a plural verb. I could never think of a good way to explain it too him therefore I said this is just the way it is. He still says that though and he is 27. We still make fun of him.

[Kathleen in VA]

Kathleen, thanks for asking this question. This is something that I have found perplexing for awhile but just never bothered to look up or ask. My son says, "Mayo are nasty." His reasoning was that if you could have some of something that that signified a quanity of more than one therefore it was plural and it needed a plural verb. I could never think of a good way to explain it too him therefore I said this is just the way it is. He still says that though and he is 27. We still make fun of him.

 

:lol::lol:And, for the record, I agree. Mayo are nasty!

[silliness7]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/grammar-rules/20-Rules-of-subject-verb-agreement.html

 

Here's the website I had found.

 

ETA: Here is another website. Scroll down to Rule #9. This one has an interesting aside using the word "none."

 

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

Edited November 23, 2010 by silliness7

[gardening momma]

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet...(but I will)

Why does it sound fine to say, "There is lots of food"?

It doesn't sound fine to me. I'd say, "There is a lot of food."

[silliness7]

In reading through those websites you'll also be able to explain to your children why it is correct to say...

 

Five dollars is the correct amount.

 

AND NOT

 

Five dollars are the correct amount.

 

English is weird!!! But this has been quite an enlightening topic.

 

I feel the need to scour our grammar books and see if these tidbits are mentioned. :001_smile:

[Kathleen in VA]

In reading through those websites you'll also be able to explain to your children why it is correct to say...

 

Five dollars is the correct amount.

 

AND NOT

 

Five dollars are the correct amount.

 

English is weird!!! But this has been quite an enlightening topic.

 

I feel the need to scour our grammar books and see if these tidbits are mentioned. :001_smile:

 

I never thought of that (Five dollars is...and not five dollars are). English is weird!

 

Thanks for the links. I'm going to scour my grammar books, too. Now this is what I call FUN!:D

[newlifemom]

I never thought of that (Five dollars is...and not five dollars are). English is weird!

 

Thanks for the links. I'm going to scour my grammar books, too. Now this is what I call FUN!:D

 

Ahhh, I knew there was a reason I liked you. :D

 

 

I love learning about grammar. I wish others [not just here] shared in this love with me. :tongue_smilie: