Sharon H in IL Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Link to Single Dad Laughing. He's always worth reading, and this time especially so. http://www.danoah.com/2010/10/worthless-women-and-men-who-make-them.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Very interesting. If only all men could grasp this. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Very interesting. If only all men could grasp this. Thanks for sharing. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Wow! That made me cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I <3 Single Dad Laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon H in IL Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 I <3 Single Dad Laughing. Agreed. He's not just posting about "stuff that p*sses me off" or "how my day went." He's doing serious cultural criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Compelling post. Gotta' love a guy who will try to stop looking. Good luck to him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralloyd Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 If you see my hubby in the mall or checkout line and he is staring at the floor or ceiling, this is why. I love my man. Even watching a movie/tv he turns his eye, and looks at me. It has done wonders for my self esteem being married to him :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k10coon Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Ya know, I don't get it. Why is it that a woman's self worth is based on what a man does or doesn't do? Nobody gets extra points for doing the right thing (i.e., not looking). Perhaps women should point and laugh at men who look at these images as if they are real. Let the man's self worth be based on our actions for a change, not ours on theirs. Sorry, this obviously hit a nerve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Great post. I have a couple of friends that are solid gold and their dh's look at other women. Yeah, their self worth is affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 awesome post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I <3 Single Dad Laughing. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Funny. It seems to me that women do that to each other far more than men do it to them. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 That made me cry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Funny. It seems to me that women do that to each other far more than men do it to them. Rosie :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny Piaaree Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Single dad makes an interesting point, and I'm sure that is one piece of the puzzle. However, was anyone else struck by the irony that the post was still solidly focused on women's physical appearance? His basic premise is that women's self esteem is built or destroyed based on how men rate our physical beauty, especially in comparison to the ideal. So if men stopped "looking" at women in that way, we could stop feeling fat and ugly and worthless and realize that, no! we really are pretty! and so then we can feel good about ourselves. But our self esteem is still being tied to how we feel about how we look! Or how we think men feel about how we look. I was more interested in how ongoing personal criticism affects women, so I googled "how criticism affects women's self esteem." What do you suppose turned up? Scads of articles, not on verbal criticism, but on how media images and women's view of their own appearance affect their self esteem. Even while discussing the problem, the whole dialogue is obsessed with women's looks! How do women feel about how we look? How do media images affect how we feel about how we look? How do men feel about how we look? Does men's behavior affect how we feel about how we look? It reminds me of why I stopped my subscription to Weight Watchers magazine. Almost all of the ads in there, and plenty of the articles, too, were about food! The magazine seemed to be obsessed with food! Was that intentional? I don't know. But when we are obsessed with food - how much food do we want, how much food can we have, what kind of food can we have, what kind of food can't we have, when can we eat it, when can't we eat it, etc. - that can't be healthy. And if we can't break that obsession, we are probably not going to have an easy time losing weight. So same with women's self esteem. I can just see a magazine for women called "Esteem!" - chock full of ads for makeup, weight loss, and plastic surgery. And article after article discussing how we feel about how we look, why we worry about how we look, how men's behavior affects how we feel about how we look....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) Funny. It seems to me that women do that to each other far more than men do it to them. Rosie :iagree:, Rosie. Also, why is our worth predicated on men's opinions, whether positive or negative? Really girls (general), grow some ovaries. Edited October 31, 2010 by Mejane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) Great post. I have a couple of friends that are solid gold and their dh's look at other women. Yeah, their self worth is affected. But you never know how this affects them down deep, do you? Do you know for *sure* that it doesn't affect their marriage in any way? I dated a man who looked at women. Tall, blonde women with shapely legs. He oogled every chance he got. Since I'm short and had short brown hair and less than shapely legs, I wondered, seriously, if I would ever be enough for him. If he was (and he WAS) attracted to a woman who looked a certain way, would he ever be content with the way I looked? Yes, it did affect me. I felt and knew that I couldn't live up to the standards which he appreciated. Over time his oogling would have made me feel insufficient in the looks department. Short term, though, it just p1ssed me off. ETA: this particular man, though, had other issues he brought with him into our relationship. It could have been the oogling by itself, or it could have been a combination of things with him. Edited October 31, 2010 by Aggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Well I'm a heterosexual woman and I stare at and appreciate beautiful women too (irl, not magazines). Not because I want to be them or be with them, just because I think they are beautiful. I do have to agree that women need to put their boobs back in their shirts. It's almost impossible to find a shirt that isn't cut so low that everything is falling out. I'm amazed at how it has become the norm to always show a lot of cleavage. I really don't find it attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbmom77 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) Funny. It seems to me that women do that to each other far more than men do it to them. Rosie Yes, this. I liked the post. Especially the part about covering up instead of letting it all hang out. I'm in college and really tired of seeing boobs and thongs and thighs all day every day. But...the more I thought about it, I realized no man in my life has ever pressured me to lose weight, "do something" with my long hair, dress better, wear makeup. It's the women. The aunt who told me at 17 I better not put on any weight or I'd never have boyfriends. The mom who constantly makes comments about my weight, my clothes. The friend who really just can't understand why any woman would not want to wear makeup and heels and clingy, low-cut shirts. The ones who bug me to cut my hair or put it up because apparently I'm too old to just let it be natural. Maybe it's really that we need to leave each other the heck alone. Maybe if we accepted each other, men wouldn't have any other choices. Anyone seen the commercials for "Plain Jane"? Haven't seen the show, but the premise revolts me. "You're not good enough to attract the guy you like so change everything and then he'll accept you." How about - forget the shallow jerks, wait for the guy who gives a flip about the real you. And just walk away from the women who can't see that. :rant: ETA: A guy appreciating a beautiful woman doesn't bother me. I am attracted to all kinds of men, but certain things are more visually pleasing than others to me. Nothing wrong with that. However, it's a look and quick thought "nice". I would never ogle someone in public, much less in front of my SO. And a man making comments beyond "That's a beautiful lady." would really tick me off. Edited October 31, 2010 by mrbmom77 changed terminology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenL Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Thanks for sharing this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I'm not sure my self esteem would be positively affected by having men refuse to look at me. (Let's just put aside the frumpy housewife look for a moment and pretend I'm as gorgeous as dh thinks I am, ha ha!) I'd think the first few men who preferred to stare at the floor a bit rude. If it became a widespread phenomenon, I'd be starting to wonder if I had a sign on my forehead saying "warning: very, very dull person contained inside." Except now, of course, I've read this thread so I'd know it was really a compliment on my good looks. :glare: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I'm not sure my self esteem would be positively affected by having men refuse to look at me. (Let's just put aside the frumpy housewife look for a moment and pretend I'm as gorgeous as dh thinks I am, ha ha!) I'd think the first few men who preferred to stare at the floor a bit rude. If it became a widespread phenomenon, I'd be starting to wonder if I had a sign on my forehead saying "warning: very, very dull person contained inside." Except now, of course, I've read this thread so I'd know it was really a compliment on my good looks. :glare: Rosie :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricia Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Wow, that was a mouthful. Great post he made. I'm glad I got to read it. Now it's my hubby's turn!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) that he thinks that the negativity of women verbally about themselves (my hair is so flat, it's thinning, I look fat, I wish I had your hips) is about a message that men give them. I don't think it really has anything to do with men. Or not much to do with them. Or at least I think I would wager that it has to do with the relationships between girls and women and not their relationships with men. I think it's something about the way girls and women communicate that maybe he doesn't really understand. Long long before there was any man in our lives besides our Dad, my sisters and I sat around dressing our barbies and saying things like, "Your eyes are so pretty. I wish mine were blue." I'm not sure why young girls learn that, but I guarantee you it had nothing to do with how men treated us or any message we got from our father. We were six. ETA: I think it's hard for women to understand boys and men sometimes. Their little banter and "one upsmanship" seems very foreign to us. And it's not about us. It's about how they measure up to one another, and only they are really about to judge it. Me telling my boys that they are great and are great athletes and are strong and capable is not really enough for them. Men and boys have their own criteria and their own standards that aren't really about us Moms or us wives. Likewise, I think women say things about themselves and it's hard for men to really "hear" what they are saying because we aren't really saying it for them. We are saying it for ourselves. I am not saying that we don't need to hear praise from men and don't need to hear that we are beautiful, wanted, loved and valued from the men in our lives. We most surely do. Edited October 31, 2010 by Danestress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I loved the article. Perhaps the discussion regarding the article depends upon your life experience. My best friend feels she never measures up. Her husband is always hounding her to dress sexier even to the point of her wearing clothing that makes her feel uncomfortable in public. He is always focused on her appearance. I think it is WRONG. My husband adverts his eyes. My friend constantly pulls on her ultra-short skirt and my friend's husband walks around acting like a pimp. Ticks me off. Then there's my own experience. I grew up where everyone was 100% focused on keeping the MAN happy. So Dad harped on appearances if we weren't all up to snuff. Mom harped on us because we weren't up to Dad's standards. Mom harped on herself because she wasn't up to Dad's standards. The entire world revolved around making sure Dad was happy down to the smallest details. A lot of the women in my life (family & church) were really judgmental about clothing, weight, make-up, etc. but it was all because they felt this obsessive need to keep their men happy. I don't know if they were afraid of losing them or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.