I have HAD it with FLL 1

[Forget-Me-Not]

FORTY-FIVE lessons on nouns/proper nouns?!?! 45! Are you kidding me? My son is bored out of his skull, and frankly so am I.

 

Does FLL2 pick up the pace any, or should I move to another program?

[LaissezFaire]

I ditched FLL 1 completely. My kids have done MadLibs practically from birth so they know parts of speech like the back of their hand. LOL. I actually started my second grader in FLL 3 and she is having NO trouble whatsoever. I daresay it's even a little simple for her, but she is progressing well so we are sticking with it.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

FORTY-FIVE lessons on nouns/proper nouns?!?! 45! Are you kidding me? My son is bored out of his skull, and frankly so am I.

 

Does FLL2 pick up the pace any, or should I move to another program?

 

This is why I wait until 2nd grade to do FLL. I rearranged the lessons and added and deleted lessons as needed to cover the same info in 1 year. The lessons are available on my blog if you'd like.

 

It's been a few years since I looked at FLL2. I believe the pace does pick up. HTH

[Leimarie]

I'm so glad it isn't just me. My DS looks at me like I have three heads on my neck when I mention proper noun or common noun. LOL!!

[truebluexf]

I guess it all depends on your philosophy for teaching grammar. FLL was fun for us overall. That said, we never actually finished 1 & 2. I am doing 3 with my 3rd grader this year and it's still fun but educational. I'm sure we could do something more challenging, but this is the right pace for us right now. Things have plenty of time to be more intense later.

 

ETA: Of course, with the beauty of homeschooling, I skip things my kids already know. I certianly don't make them repeat definitions 3 times they clearly know, etc.

[abbeyej]

Just move more quickly. Combine lessons. Skip redundant bits. If your son is understanding and retaining the material, you don't need to repeat everything ad nauseum. Just keep going. If you get through the equivalent of 15 lessons a week, that's okay. One of my kids did all of FLL 1 and 2 in 6 months. He's an unusual kid, but I think many kids can go through FLL more quickly than it's written. *But* I think he learned a lot, and what he learned was *very* helpful to him moving forward with writing and Latin... I used it again with my dd, and she didn't go through quite as quickly as he, but still much faster than written.

 

I think FLL is a fabulous program. But don't feel trapped by the scripting or the schedule. Make it work for you. Just because the book says "repeat this three times" doesn't mean you have to. If the next lesson is 90% review, do the 10% that's new and go on to the next lesson...

 

ETA: Others are right that you aren't "just" covering nouns in all that time. I wouldn't skip huge sections of the book without you (teacher) skimming through the lessons to see what *else* of value is there. Yes, a lesson may begin with reviewing the definition of a noun or picking out the proper nouns in a sentence, but there may well be other valuable information within the lesson. Skim through it, take note of what's new (or useful practice) for your child, do that, and move on.

Edited September 20, 2010 by abbeyej

[SnowWhite]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

[Cindyz]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I don't mind that it's slow. i think it will really help to cement the ideas for him and I like the mix of all that is listed above. It breaks up the definition of the noun into all of the parts. First it focuses on people, then places, then things, and I'm looking forward to learning about ideas. :) I think it's perfect for my 5 year old. Could he learn more if presented? Yes, but there is plenty of time to learn it all. Sometimes when I feel bored, I think about looking for something more, but then I realize that at his age, it's really just not necessary.

[calandalsmom]

Just dump it.

[TXMary2]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

 

 

I agree! There is much more than nouns.....we have also combined lessons when the material was simple.

[SpiritCatcher]

I have been considering ordering FLL but the reviews are so mixed that I just can't decide. We have EG but DD just doesn't seem to retain any of the material.

 

Can anyone tell me the difference in the first and second edition of FLL 1 & 2. I know they have been formatted into 2 different volumes, just wondering if that's the only difference.

[Guest TheBugsMom]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

We are also about 4 weeks in and have had fun with this. My dd does mention she knows we will study proper nouns and common ones, but we don't do it exactly as JW says. I just have her say the definition of a noun and give me an example of a common and proper noun the lesson is geared to. We then write the two words making sure the proper one is capitalized. The memorization poems are nice so I don't want to skip any.

 

However, if this is a big drawback for your child I would skip ahead to a point where your child is gaining from the curriculum.

[siloam]

I didn't follow the script. I looked at the points covered, covered them as needed, did the memorization (not the narration because we were also doing WWE), and moved on. Often when it covered nouns I would simply say, "Give me an example of a proper and common noun." If they could do so correctly we moved on.

 

You know your child, use it as a guideline and make it fit your needs, don't let it dictate to you what should be done. :D

 

Heather

[FO4UR]

Tweak it.:iagree:

 

My dd5 really likes FLL 1/2...REALLY likes it.:001_huh: I was going to let it grow dust on the shelf (ds7 is getting grammar from SWR and WWE), but she keeps pulling it out and asking me for lessons. LOL I oblige, and combine lessons and cut out most of the repetition. fwiw - All 3 of my dc know the definitions of most parts of speech...even my little 4yo. There must be something to it...

[NancyNellen]

:iagree:

 

I have used it with 4 children - some whizzed through, others went more slowly. We would double and triple up lessons when needed, but all in all it was a great foundation for moving into Harvey's grammar in 5th grade. I loved how simply everything else was folded in...oral/written narration, picture study, addressing an envelope, writing a letter, etc.

[WiseOwlKnits]

This is why we switched to CLE last spring. It started off great, but we didn't GO anywhere. DD was beyond bored. I was bored. CLE has been awesome and DD has learned SO much doing it. So my vote is to switch.

[In2why]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

 

 

Yep. I actually dropped WWE in place of FLL. I just skip some of the lessons that are repetitive, and then we have writing and copywork from the lessons. But we do narrations and copywork in other subjects as well, so I decided to use the original FLL.

[Crimson Wife]

Just move more quickly. Combine lessons. Skip redundant bits. If your son is understanding and retaining the material, you don't need to repeat everything ad nauseum. Just keep going. If you get through the equivalent of 15 lessons a week, that's okay....

 

I think FLL is a fabulous program. But don't feel trapped by the scripting or the schedule. Make it work for you. Just because the book says "repeat this three times" doesn't mean you have to. If the next lesson is 90% review, do the 10% that's new and go on to the next lesson.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

The second half of the book is less repetitive so you'll probably find you won't need to do as much combining of lessons.

[lovetobehome]

And see, my daughter has spent months on learning pronouns. And now for review, I asked her to pick out the pronouns on a few sentences and she had no idea what I was saying. She NEEDS that constant review. My son was the opposite, tell him once and he's got it.

If it is driving you nuts, no need to stick it out! But it is a good, solid program! Try Rod & Staff!

[LaurainMD]

I am glad I decided to start it this year for K, because some of it would be way too easy/boring for a 1st grader. But there are other parts that I think will challenge her -- I'm just planning to speed up the pieces she already knows and linger on the stuff that's new.

[JenC3]

I think FLL (K & 1st) is great to start with a 5 yr old or 4 yr old who is really ready. It's not really like grammar, but grammar exposure IME/O. I LOVE Rod and Staff and so does dd, but I'm going to do FLL with my ds when he turns 5 and then move to R & S for 2nd.

[tranquilmama]

I'm so glad it isn't just me. My DS looks at me like I have three heads on my neck when I mention proper noun or common noun. LOL!!

 

LOL... my ds does the same. And we've only made it to lesson 11;)

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I think FLL (K & 1st) is great to start with a 5 yr old or 4 yr old who is really ready. It's not really like grammar, but grammar exposure IME/O. I LOVE Rod and Staff and so does dd, but I'm going to do FLL with my ds when he turns 5 and then move to R & S for 2nd.

 

If I recall correctly it even says in the intro that the idea is exposure and with that in mind I have also found the pace and repetition perfect for use with my 4.5yo and he is enjoying it at 2 lessons a week. I'm sure it depends on the child but for him I couldn't imagine it going as well if I waited another 2 years.

[Annie Laurie]

I didn't follow the script. I looked at the points covered, covered them as needed, did the memorization (not the narration because we were also doing WWE), and moved on. Often when it covered nouns I would simply say, "Give me an example of a proper and common noun." If they could do so correctly we moved on.

 

You know your child, use it as a guideline and make it fit your needs, don't let it dictate to you what should be done. :D

 

Heather

 

:iagree:

 

My 6 yr old is using it. He's memorized the first 4 poems and the proper and common noun definitions, so we moved on. We just move at a much faster pace and find it not a problem to adjust. I still think the memory work is valuable later and it's easy and painless. Five minutes a day and he has a lot filed away already, which will make CLE next year easier for him. We'll probably get FLL 1 & 2 both done this year.

[KrissiK]

I think it's great. It's simple, quick and the repetition makes sure it gets it in their little heads. My boys don't mind it at all!

[JadeOrchidSong]

We did 25 lessons in less than 3 weeks. You can speed up or combine as much you want to. You don't have to do one lesson a day and you don't have to repeat the definition 3 times at a time either.

Tweak it until it works. It works for my 5.5 yr old the way we do it and he IS retaining it even at this speed.

J

[Forget-Me-Not]

Just move more quickly. Combine lessons. Skip redundant bits. If your son is understanding and retaining the material, you don't need to repeat everything ad nauseum. Just keep going. If you get through the equivalent of 15 lessons a week, that's okay. One of my kids did all of FLL 1 and 2 in 6 months. He's an unusual kid, but I think many kids can go through FLL more quickly than it's written. *But* I think he learned a lot, and what he learned was *very* helpful to him moving forward with writing and Latin... I used it again with my dd, and she didn't go through quite as quickly as he, but still much faster than written.

 

I think FLL is a fabulous program. But don't feel trapped by the scripting or the schedule. Make it work for you. Just because the book says "repeat this three times" doesn't mean you have to. If the next lesson is 90% review, do the 10% that's new and go on to the next lesson...

 

 

Yes, we've been skipping. HEAVILY. I just really hate the approach. I think I'm going to try something else.

 

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

 

I get that. But most of those are things we're covering elsewhere or that he already knew. Maybe I should have gone straight into 2 with him.

[Jean in CA]

FWIW, when my kids were doing FLL 1 and 2, I thought the same thing! But we kept up with the lessons as written, and now that they are in 7th and 5th grade, we are SO grateful for the repetition that drilled the definitions and lists into their heads. Forever.

 

We love that in their writing and grammar and Latin lessons now, they have no trouble reciting the helping verbs, or "to be" verbs, or the list of prepositions.

 

The work we did on FLL seemed so simple, repetitive, yes even boring to mom, but it is one of the few programs I look at now that really paid off!

 

I'd also say the same for WWE: the dictations are fantasitc for building up pre-writing skills and drilling the mechanics of sentence writing.

[Susan in KY]

FORTY-FIVE lessons on nouns/proper nouns?!?! 45! Are you kidding me? My son is bored out of his skull, and frankly so am I.

 

Does FLL2 pick up the pace any, or should I move to another program?

 

We felt the same way. DC would see the book and run away yelling, "NOOOOOOOO!" Needless to say, that was not exactly the schooling experience I envisioned for them. We switched to Primary Language Lessons by Emma Serl and things went much more smoothly.

 

Now we're using MCT to fill in the prescriptive grammar gaps. They are much more willing to handle it now. I think that abstract grammar just doesn't fly with concrete thinkers. :001_smile: YMMV

 

All the best!

Susan

[Satori]

We combined 4-5 lessons the days we did FLL. We finished FLL1 and started FLL2 this month, but my daughter just can't stand it anymore. I had Growing With Grammar as a backup and she seems to enjoy that much more. So our latest plans (as of yesterday) are to do GWG (2 lessons a day) and move into MCT in the spring.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I was looking at Growing with Grammar earlier and thinking about that one. Hmmmm.

 

I was also checking out MCT Grammar Island. He's technically 2nd grade (and it says 3rd-4th) but the samples I looked at were things he could easily handle. He reads very, very well, if that makes a difference. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[Guest mrsjamiesouth]

There's so much more there than nouns...

 

We have also done: Narration, picture study, memorization, capitalization, address, family members, countries, states, cities.... and we're only 4 weeks in.

 

:iagree: We are really liking it. We are just doing it 3 times a week, it takes 5 minutes. After only 5 weeks my 6yo can tell me if something is a noun better than my 10yo (who did not use FLL.) I think repetition is an awesome way to instill something.

I mean this in the kindest way, but I wonder if your attitude about the curriculum is affecting your child's attitude? I tell mine ahead of time we are going to say this 3 times and as soon as you feel you can join in do so. There have been other times when I didn't like a curriculum and I could tell that my child jumped ship with me.

[TKDmom]

I was looking at Growing with Grammar earlier and thinking about that one. Hmmmm.

 

I was also checking out MCT Grammar Island. He's technically 2nd grade (and it says 3rd-4th) but the samples I looked at were things he could easily handle. He reads very, very well, if that makes a difference. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

I used FLL for my dd when she was in 2nd grade and she pitched a fit about it being too easy and repetitive, so we dropped it. I switched her to GWG 3, but the workbook had too much writing for her. And I wanted something that had a little more teacher involvement.

 

Halfway through her 3rd grade year we discovered MCT, and we really like the Island level. I have seen people use Island level with a 2nd grader. We are now starting Town level, and looking ahead, I can see how the difficulty ramps up in this level. I think it's a stretch to be using it with a 4th grader. I wouldn't want to use it with a 3rd grader.

 

I started FLL last year for my ds who was in K. By about lesson 45, we were ready to quit, but on the advice of someone on this board, I looked through the TOC and planned out which lessons to skip. I also modified/ignored the repetition in the script so that some days our lessons lasted 1-2 minutes. DS always gets gets a kick out of a grammar lesson that ends before he's really even settled down into the couch.

 

We're now at lesson 103, and things are much improved. He isn't complaining about repetition, and I'm actually enjoying it. I wish I'd found a way to stick with it for dd. She pulls out FLL to look at the preposition list when she is doing MCT. She really struggles with prepositions. I wish she could have memorized it more naturally in FLL...

 

 

Can anyone tell me the difference in the first and second edition of FLL 1 & 2. I know they have been formatted into 2 different volumes, just wondering if that's the only difference.

 

From what I have heard on the boards, the new version eliminated the copywork and narration that is covered in WWE.

Edited September 21, 2010 by bonniebeth4
typo

[Old Dominion Heather]

I agree... my sixth grader will still write the helping verbs in the order of the chant he learned in FLL. He does the same thing with prepositions. I'll hear him chanting them under his breath. It was such a solid basis that he had never had a minutes trouble in grammar, even with different programs.

[Satori]

From what I have heard on the boards, the new version eliminated the copywork and narration that is covered in WWE.

 

I have both the FLL 1 & 2 new version and old version. The new version left out a couple narration/copywork, but still has so much in it. I was leaving it out, as we both of these in other subjects.

 

I wrote somewhere on these boards the exact differences (which aren't many). The biggest thing is that the new version is so much easier to read!

[Storm Bay]

You have to adapt FLL to your needs. Some dc love the repetition whether or not they need it. My ds loved FLL, especially since he got to sit on my lap during the gr 1 part. However, I did combine & skip some of the lessons. I will say, though, that those definitions have stuck. He's now doing R&S 5 and when they gave the be verbs in a different order, he redid the be verb chant, complete with the claps, from FLL and it's been several years since he's done that.

 

That said, if your dc doesn't do well with auditory learning or is higly giftedn and past the rote stage, then you ought to ditch the gr 1 portion of FLL. My ds was behind in his fine motor skills when we did it, so we didn't do the writing portions of FLL.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I mean this in the kindest way, but I wonder if your attitude about the curriculum is affecting your child's attitude? I tell mine ahead of time we are going to say this 3 times and as soon as you feel you can join in do so. There have been other times when I didn't like a curriculum and I could tell that my child jumped ship with me.

 

I get where you're coming from, but I really don't think that's the issue here. In fact, until recently, I would have said that I was *fairly* happy with it's slow and gentle approach. My son is just getting progressively bored with it. And it's gotten to the point where he'll chant the poems and the definitions of a noun as fast as he possibly can in order to get through the lesson (seriously, the boy might have a future in auctioneering ;)).

 

I started FLL last year for my ds who was in K. By about lesson 45, we were ready to quit, but on the advice of someone on this board, I looked through the TOC and planned out which lessons to skip. I also modified/ignored the repetition in the script so that some days our lessons lasted 1-2 minutes. DS always gets gets a kick out of a grammar lesson that ends before he's really even settled down into the couch.

 

We're now at lesson 103, and things are much improved. He isn't complaining about repetition, and I'm actually enjoying it. I wish I'd found a way to stick with it for dd. She pulls out FLL to look at the preposition list when she is doing MCT. She really struggles with prepositions. I wish she could have memorized it more naturally in FLL...

 

From what I have heard on the boards, the new version eliminated the copywork and narration that is covered in WWE.

 

I have the new FLL 1, so I can't comment on the old version. However, this version does have some narration. I'd say every 8-10 lessons, maybe? But not nearly as much as WWE (which we're also using).

 

I think some of my problem lies in the fact that he needs to be AT LEAST in FLL 2, so maybe I need to order that and take a look at it. I do want him to have a good foundation in grammar, but we need to move at a faster pace. So maybe I need to do some 'editing' of the schedule like you suggest ;)

 

 

You have to adapt FLL to your needs. Some dc love the repetition whether or not they need it. My ds loved FLL, especially since he got to sit on my lap during the gr 1 part. However, I did combine & skip some of the lessons. I will say, though, that those definitions have stuck. He's now doing R&S 5 and when they gave the be verbs in a different order, he redid the be verb chant, complete with the claps, from FLL and it's been several years since he's done that.

 

That said, if your dc doesn't do well with auditory learning or is higly giftedn and past the rote stage, then you ought to ditch the gr 1 portion of FLL. My ds was behind in his fine motor skills when we did it, so we didn't do the writing portions of FLL.

 

Good to know. Interestingly, I'd say he's a strong auditory learner--but he seems to learn no matter how I throw the information at him.

 

Well, for now I downloaded an Evan-Moor grammar ebook for him to work on for a bit while I order FLL 2 and 3 get this figured out. I think we'll probably end up using FLL as a spine and do a bit of supplementing here and there.

 

thanks all for the input :)

Edited September 22, 2010 by LemonPie
grammar!

[DarcyB]

We jumped and skipped and jumped A LOT...it was entirely too redundant.