Strange moral dilemma for me regarding my professor. (heavy CC)

[dripdripsplat]

There's a lot of responses, and I don't have time right now to go through them all, so if this is a repeat answer for you, sorry.

 

I would pray (and fast) asking God to move on your behalf. God knows your heart, and knows how you feel about His name being blasphemed. I would ask Him to soften your professor's heart, and above all else, make this a moment of testimony of God's goodness and grace. I believe that if you seek God, He will provide the answer. It may seem like there's no hope of the professor changing her ways, but God is bigger than that, and God is going to use you.

 

And after praying and seeking God's answer to the situation, be prepared that He may intend for you to stay in the class. Maybe that's the way He plans to reach your professor's heart.

 

I'll be praying for you!

[Mrs Mungo]

The only comment I have is a reminder of some board rules here, since we have a very diverse direction of comments:

 

 

 

I understand helping her manage with a different perspective, but a few posts might, kind-a sorta, in a way, sound a bit like they're trying to convince others that "OMG" is a perfectly fine saying. The OP obviously doesn't think it is and is asking for advice on handling this fact.

 

Ok, I'll quit pretending to be an unauthorized hall monitor now :tongue_smilie: and simply sympathize with the OP because that drives me batty too!

 

I think it's a little different when you are soliciting opinions on what to do about a given situation.

 

Answer questions that are posted but don't use these questions as an excuse to springboard into criticism. For example: If someone asks, "What are your kids dressing up as for Halloween?" don't launch into an explanation of how evil Halloween is. If someone asks, "Is Halloween evil?" have a ball. (Conversely: if someone posts, "We don't do Halloween; what can we substitute?" don't take this as an opportunity to prove to them that Halloween is really just fine.)

 

She is asking "how can I handle this?" The truth is, a large percentage of people see nothing wrong with it and she isn't going to convince the world to stop for her benefit. So, it should be handled with extreme care. Personally, I think if this is her first class and she's this bothered by THIS, then she's going to have some big problems with ideas, personalities and worldviews she may encounter in other classes. She may be better off taking classes through a Christian college and even then, she isn't guaranteed to not experience challenges (I currently know someone whose dd is attending a small Christian college and is having trouble with a certain uber-feminist professor).

[mommaduck]

Haven't read the entire thread, but unfortunately, you can't control how other people speak. She obviously doesn't share your faith or worldview. The best you can do is grin and bear it. Many professors are controversial and will go on also about their pet issues, even if it's indirectly attacking students in the class that may fall under various categories that are attacked. Keep your head down, do the work, get the grade. On the other hand ;) you could start crossing yourself every time she does it. She might catch on. LOL!

[MamaSheep]

I haven't read all the responses, but will say that it bugs me too when people use the name(s) of deity casually or irreverantly. I do realize that a huge percentage of the population does so, without thinking twice, but I've never been one to think that "everyone else does it" makes a thing ok, in and of itself. So yeah, for me being in that class would likely be a little like being constantly stuck with pins.

 

That said, though, I also realize that I am part of a minority culture living amongst a larger culture which regards me as a bit of an oddity already. Most of the time I don't say anything, even though every time someone talks that way it hurts a little. They're not doing it on purpose and most likely don't even know it would bother anyone, because that's just how people in "their" culture talk. There are times, though, when I am going to have to be around someone a lot when I will try to let them know, nicely, that it really bothers me, and I've found that usually--unless the person has something against me personally, or against my "culture"--people are generally very kind about trying to adjust their language.

 

If I were in a class where the professor was using that kind of phrasing regularly my approach would probably depend a LOT on what else I could tell about the professor from their general attitude and demeanor, and the tone in which they spoke of other things. If the professor seemed the sort of person that had a chip on their shoulder in general, or seemed hostile toward Christians or even "conservatism" or whatever, I would likely just suffer through it, especially if I needed a good grade. (Having worked in a college staff position before, I'm aware that the professor's opinion of a student can affect the grade rather more than it should.) If the professor seemed like a generally good-natured, open-minded, friendly sort of person I would probably hang back after class to speak with her. Then I'd tell her how much I was enjoying the class, and point out a couple of things I particularly liked about the class before mentioning that the only thing in the course that I'm having trouble with at all is that I sometimes find her frequent use of that phrase very distracting because, being a serious Christian, I am used to hearing God's name used with reverence and specifically to refer to deity, rather than just as a sort of punctuation mark. Then I'd probably kind of laugh it off and say that I realize am very sensitive about it and I do understand that not everyone is bothered by it as much as I am, and I wasn't asking her to change, just saying it was a little distracting to me when it pops up in the middle of a discussion about such and such. But I really enjoyed hearing her comments about this other thing, and her story about that time when whatever. And then I'd let it go. But that's me.

 

Good luck, though. I know how that can get under one's skin when one has to sit and listen to it.

 

ETA: Just wanted to add that sometimes all you can do is decide whether the ultimate goal you're trying to achieve is worth gritting your teeth and suffering through the pin-pricks. How badly do you want the degree? What would you be willing to tolerate in order to get it? Sometimes you just have to be "in" the world, even if you choose not to immitate worldy behavior and become "of" the world.

 

As far as paying for it, I suppose one way to look at it is that what you are paying for is the instruction. The language she just throws in for free.

Edited September 18, 2010 by MamaSheep

[dripdripsplat]

Just had to add a few more cents after some of the posts I have read.

 

You are not being legalistic, or placing yourself on a pedestal. You are following God's Commandments. I'm sorry that there are Christians out there that are okay with using God's name in that manner, but just because they do, doesn't make it okay. In fact, little do they know, but it hurts their testimony to the rest of the world. They are losing the world, not winning it for Christ. Sorry if that offends anybody, but that's just how I see it.

 

You are not, and should not be, trying to convince your professor of the "evils" of her ways. She's not a Christian... She doesn't know. No big deal. What you are doing is informing her, in a polite, non-confrontational, Christian way that you are offended by the use of God's name in a negative connotation. You never know, she may not realize that it bothers anyone, and could very possibly decide to try to not do it. On the other hand, she might laugh. It's the reality of the situation... It could happen. Be prepared and prayed up.

 

"Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." :001_smile:

[CLHCO]

 

 

She is asking "how can I handle this?" The truth is, a large percentage of people see nothing wrong with it and she isn't going to convince the world to stop for her benefit. So, it should be handled with extreme care. Personally, I think if this is her first class and she's this bothered by THIS, then she's going to have some big problems with ideas, personalities and worldviews she may encounter in other classes. She may be better off taking classes through a Christian college and even then, she isn't guaranteed to not experience challenges (I currently know someone whose dd is attending a small Christian college and is having trouble with a certain uber-feminist professor).

 

Well, exactly. I specifically said, "I understand helping her manage with a different perspective." You just agreed with me, so I'm not sure why anyone would be trying to challenge what I said.

 

I am referring to those that started to lean towards convincing people that it *is* fine and no big deal, not pointing out that others think it's fine, which they obviously do. It may seem like splitting hairs, but one is understanding a perspective so she can make an educated decision on how to approach her professor, the other is proselytizing their perspective on to another. I find the two quite different.

[Spy Car]

....On the other hand ;) you could start crossing yourself every time she does it. She might catch on. LOL!

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Bill

[ma23peas]

I truly feel that many are saying 'no big deal' because they themselves hear it often or they use it themselves...so they've become desensitized to it, it still does not belie the fact that this professor is acting in an unprofessional manner....if he were saying these things (not only Oh my God but G**d*** as inferred by her statements kwim) in general conversation, he has every right to...but as a professor, he has a level of professionalism that must be respected....he's over the line in this respect and the OP has an acceptable responsibility to bring it to his attention and then to his superior's...

 

I think some are missing the bigger picture, not whether the man has the right to speak this way in general, but in the classroom...no he doesn't.

 

Tara

[Miss Sherry]

..... On the other hand ;) you could start crossing yourself every time she does it. She might catch on. LOL!

 

Now that would be just strange, (which I believe you already know and are making fun of her dilemma) . I have no doubt that is NOT what the OP will be doing. Some of you can be quite silly. :001_huh::tongue_smilie::001_rolleyes:

[wapiti]

I understand helping her manage with a different perspective, but a few posts might, kind-a sorta, in a way, sound a bit like they're trying to convince others that "OMG" is a perfectly fine saying. The OP obviously doesn't think it is and is asking for advice on handling this fact.

 

I think the gist of the problem is that the OP disagrees with her teacher, who most likely holds a different perspective (i.e. does think that it is a perfectly fine saying), and I think the point of some posts is that the teacher's perspective is not necessarily an unreasonable or uncommon perspective.

[Miss Sherry]

I truly feel that many are saying 'no big deal' because they themselves hear it often or they use it themselves...so they've become desensitized to it, it still does not belie the fact that this professor is acting in an unprofessional manner....if he were saying these things (not only Oh my God but G**d*** as inferred by her statements kwim) in general conversation, he has every right to...but as a professor, he has a level of professionalism that must be respected....he's over the line in this respect and the OP has an acceptable responsibility to bring it to his attention and then to his superior's...

 

I think some are missing the bigger picture, not whether the man has the right to speak this way in general, but in the classroom...no he doesn't.

 

Tara

Yes. It does appear that way to me to. Some seem to be oblivious that this is in a professional setting. The OP has every right to expect professional behavior.

[simka2]

I truly feel that many are saying 'no big deal' because they themselves hear it often or they use it themselves...so they've become desensitized to it, it still does not belie the fact that this professor is acting in an unprofessional manner....if he were saying these things (not only Oh my God but G**d*** as inferred by her statements kwim) in general conversation, he has every right to...but as a professor, he has a level of professionalism that must be respected....he's over the line in this respect and the OP has an acceptable responsibility to bring it to his attention and then to his superior's...

 

I think some are missing the bigger picture, not whether the man has the right to speak this way in general, but in the classroom...no he doesn't.

 

Tara

 

I don't get this...I have had brilliant proffessors with Tourettes, others that used all kinds of unproffesional speech...in fact I'm watching Back to the Future right now, and "Doc" doesn't speak in the most proffesional manner ;) Okay, maybe not the best example, but what makes a GREAT proffessor is not how socially acceptable their speak is, but their knowledge and passion for their subject!!!!

 

Edited to add: I actually don't say it IRL, that is MY choice...but just because I choose not to doesn't mean I think it is blasphemy or wrong in an educational setting.

 

I think we have become in danger of driveing away they really great teachers, in favor of those who don't challenge us...on varies levels!

Edited September 18, 2010 by simka2
added a thought

[ma23peas]

I don't get this...I have had brilliant proffessors with Tourettes, others that used all kinds of unproffesional speech...in fact I'm watching Back to the Future right now, and "Doc" doesn't speak in the most proffesional manner ;) Okay, maybe not the best example, but what makes a GREAT proffessor is not how socially acceptable their speak is, but their knowledge and passion for their subject!!!!

 

Edited to add: I actually don't say it IRL, that is MY choice...but just because I choose not to doesn't mean I think it is blasphemy or wrong in an educational setting.

 

I think we have become in danger of driveing away they really great teachers, in favor of those who don't challenge us...on varies levels!

 

Simka..you are S-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g :) tourette's is a whole 'nother story...if you allow this then why not f***, s***, other commonly used words in the public school rooms? I am shocked, sincerely shocked that you and others believe this is acceptable in a classroom of any kind. If my husband used this language in his professional setting he would be looked down upon and not likely promotable...maybe in the mine fields when you have a serious collapse it's acceptable..but for any profession dealing with the public, especially a public that is paying for an education not a derogatory assault...it shows his lack of self control and inability to form an intelligent response with evidence...

 

How can you even relate his passion/knowledge with the subject with his blatant lack of professionalism? I see neither as being intertwined...I can honestly say that all the professors that mastered their subjects and had passion NEVER uttered any such words in the classroom...they may have said them in their office during frustration...but never in the classroom.

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2006/03/31/15023/

 

Interesting, found another article this week from Florida showing more tolerance and the student was homeschooled who complained..hmmmm....

 

I find it interesting that they say NO WAY would racial slurs be tolerated..this I find nuts....I have friends of all colors and know that they complain how commonplace the use of racial slurs is among the youth today...it's almost like saying "buddy"....so we won't allow racial slurs but if a religious group is offended, it's that they're overly sensitive? I find too often we expect tolerance on one side and not the other...I think too much tolerance is a rocky path.

 

I would much prefer respect for others over making everyone tolerant of your failure to behave responsibly.

 

Tara

[hana]

I think some are missing the bigger picture, not whether the man has the right to speak this way in general, but in the classroom...no he doesn't.

 

Tara

 

 

This is incorrect. At my university, I absolutely do have the right to say "Oh, my god." It may be unprofessional, but freedom of speech and academic freedom absolutely protect my rights.

 

To the OP, I agree with many of the others, she is not blaspheming your God through her use of a colloquialism, so I'm not sure there's much you can do. You can certainly mention it to her--I would do it privately, maybe through email, but she may or may not change.

[Jilly]

I don't get this...I have had brilliant proffessors with Tourettes, others that used all kinds of unproffesional speech...in fact I'm watching Back to the Future right now, and "Doc" doesn't speak in the most proffesional manner ;) Okay, maybe not the best example, but what makes a GREAT proffessor is not how socially acceptable their speak is, but their knowledge and passion for their subject!!!!

 

:iagree:

[simka2]

Simka..you are S-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g :) tourette's is a whole 'nother story...if you allow this then why not f***, s***, other commonly used words in the public school rooms? I am shocked, sincerely shocked that you and others believe this is acceptable in a classroom of any kind. If my husband used this language in his professional setting he would be looked down upon and not likely promotable...maybe in the mine fields when you have a serious collapse it's acceptable..but for any profession dealing with the public, especially a public that is paying for an education not a derogatory assault...it shows his lack of self control and inability to form an intelligent response with evidence...

 

How can you even relate his passion/knowledge with the subject with his blatant lack of professionalism? I see neither as being intertwined...I can honestly say that all the professors that mastered their subjects and had passion NEVER uttered any such words in the classroom...they may have said them in their office during frustration...but never in the classroom.

 

Tara

 

:confused: Huh? How can I be "stretching?" What I wrote is what I have really experienced. I'm not denying that certain fields and even majors may have unique standards. I just don't see all college proffessors falling into that catergory, carte blanc.

[freethinkermama]

On the other hand ;) you could start crossing yourself every time she does it. She might catch on. LOL!

 

Two-thumbs up!:lol:

[ma23peas]

:confused: Huh? How can I be "stretching?" What I wrote is what I have really experienced. I'm not denying that certain fields and even majors may have unique standards. I just don't see all college proffessors falling into that catergory, carte blanc.

 

The stretch was in your mentioning tourette's.... a clinically significant disability where the professor is unable to control their words and comparing that to a professor who can...also in your example of Doc on BTTF? You give two very rare circumstances and try to provide a comparison to the OP situation...that's the stretching I meant.

 

Tara

[3littlekeets]

Dear OP,

 

In all truthfulness, how would you react if your teacher was openly lesbian and talked about her partner casually -- the way many profs I know-- talk about their heterosexual partners? Would she be denied that right because it is against conservative Christian views? Just curious..... :bigear:

[WishboneDawn]

I disagree -- I would absolutely mention it on a evaluation, as I mentioned above, because I find it unprofessional, distracting, and quite frankly a childish way to speak.

 

Why on earth not simply bring it up to the professor?

 

Why should an evaluation be a place where you write in the things you could have addressed on your own but choose not too? An excuse not to do what reasonable, mature adults should be expected to do - speak up for themselves.

[JeneralMom]

Yes, I agree with this.

 

Yes, mention it on an evaluation, if, and only if, she has spoken to the prof and the prof refuses to try to change.

[3littlekeets]

I truly feel that many are saying 'no big deal' because they themselves hear it often or they use it themselves...so they've become desensitized to it, it still does not belie the fact that this professor is acting in an unprofessional manner....if he were saying these things (not only Oh my God but G**d*** as inferred by her statements kwim) in general conversation, he has every right to...but as a professor, he has a level of professionalism that must be respected....he's over the line in this respect and the OP has an acceptable responsibility to bring it to his attention and then to his superior's...

 

I think some are missing the bigger picture, not whether the man has the right to speak this way in general, but in the classroom...no he doesn't.

 

Tara

 

Really??? Please show me the "professional code of conduct" that professors sign? I didn't get one with my Ph.D. nor with my job contract. Sorry... you are out of touch completely with typical colleges and universities. If you want that kind of "accountability" find a college with a "statement of faith" professors must abide by -- and even then, GOOD LUCK CHUCK!

 

As for the evaluations, they are NOT places for petty grievances. Of course, most of my colleagues would simply laugh that off big time and have it reinforce their beliefs about (insert derogatory term for religious people including Bibles and actions of Rabbits). Don't believe me? Hang out in a Faculty club some time :001_smile:. That said, where I teach, most of the tenure case has nothing to do with teaching anyway -- it's all research and grant funding.

[Karenciavo]

As Bethany has stated numerous times she has no desire to deny the professor her rights.

 

Dear OP,

 

In all truthfulness, how would you react if your teacher was openly lesbian and talked about her partner casually -- the way many profs I know-- talk about their heterosexual partners? Would she be denied that right because it is against conservative Christian views? Just curious..... :bigear:

[Miss Sherry]

Really??? Please show me the "professional code of conduct" that professors sign? I didn't get one with my Ph.D. nor with my job contract. Sorry... you are out of touch completely with typical colleges and universities. If you want that kind of "accountability" find a college with a "statement of faith" professors must abide by -- and even then, GOOD LUCK CHUCK!

 

As for the evaluations, they are NOT places for petty grievances. Of course, most of my colleagues would simply laugh that off big time and have it reinforce their beliefs about (insert derogatory term for religious people including Bibles and actions of Rabbits). Don't believe me? Hang out in a Faculty club some time :001_smile:. That said, where I teach, most of the tenure case has nothing to do with teaching anyway -- it's all research and grant funding.

And this type of attitude reminds me of the general attitude that so many have regarding the deplorable quality of instructors and some professors - that so many are unemployable in jobs outside in the real world where they would be required to perform in a professional manner . :tongue_smilie:

Edited September 19, 2010 by Miss Sherry

[simka2]

And this type of attitude reminds me of the general attitude that so many have regarding the deplorable quality of instructors and some professors - that so many are unemployable in jobs outside in the real world where they would be required to perform in a professional manner . :tongue_smilie:

 

Got to rabbit trail for a second ;). So, the pastor from my past that I don't really care very much for, had a saying..."those who can do...those who can't teach."

 

Well now that he has destroyed his church, tucked tail and run away, cannot get a position at another church...you guessed it it, he's trying to teach!!!

 

Talk about irony ;). Okay, rabbit trail done.

[3littlekeets]

And this type of attitude reminds me of the general attitude that so many have regarding the deplorable quality of instructors and some professors - that so many are unemployable in jobs outside in the real world where they would be required to perform in a professional manner . :tongue_smilie:

 

Ahh, but many are adored by students and win numerous teaching awards and get paid large sums to consult to the Blue Suit because they want to be stimulated and encouraged to think outside the box. :D. And, quite frankly, most have NO desire to work in the corporate setting (THE problem :tongue_smilie:), which is why they take the paltry salaries to follow their bliss :lol:.

 

As Bethany has stated numerous times she has no desire to deny the professor her rights.

 

Seriously, though, if she is offended by OMG, how would she feel about "My partner (or wife) Lisa and I were shopping..."

Edited September 19, 2010 by 3littlekeets

[3littlekeets]

Got to rabbit trail for a second ;). So, the pastor from my past that I don't really care very much for, had a saying..."those who can do...those who can't teach."

 

Well now that he has destroyed his church, tucked tail and run away, cannot get a position at another church...you guessed it it, he's trying to teach!!!

 

Talk about irony ;). Okay, rabbit trail done.

:lol::lol::lol:If we bought that, what does it say about homeschooling parents?:lol::lol::lol: Sorry. Had to join you in the rabbit hole.

[Mrs Mungo]

Another rabbit trail: one of friends who left the military for the corporate world was that he could no longer call people and say "WTF??" apparently, it had been a big time saver/stress reliever for him. Not all professions are equal in their views on profanity.

[Karenciavo]

Seriously, though, if she is offended by OMG, how would she feel about "My partner (or wife) Lisa and I were shopping..."

 

I don't know how she would feel and it has nothing to do with her OP.

[CLHCO]

I don't know how she would feel and it has nothing to do with her OP.

 

Anyone for a little ?

[Barry Goldwater]

Dear OP,

 

In all truthfulness, how would you react if your teacher was openly lesbian and talked about her partner casually -- the way many profs I know-- talk about their heterosexual partners? Would she be denied that right because it is against conservative Christian views? Just curious..... :bigear:

 

Is there a full moon?

[Night Elf]

Okay, the Valley Girl comment made me laugh out loud and I was drinking a coke. Hmph! :lol: I was saying Oh my god when I was a kid, years before Valley speak became a popular fad.

 

I can't imagine many students complaining about something like this on an evaluation. The OP is free to do that if she wants, but if she's in classes with lots of youngins, like I am, chances are the phrase is something they are so used to hearing that they would be surprised that it bothered someone. I guess it could be an issue at a religious college, but I would be surprised it became an issue at a public university.

 

I prefer my instructors to be regular people who talk regularly. Stiff, formal professional speak is not engaging or interesting for me. I have a professor like that right now. That class is killing me! He's making a super interesting topic, educational psychology, so boring.

 

I guess the point is that a student will have many instructors, some they like and some they don't like. If you want to make a complaint for other students to see, write it up on RateMyProfessor.com.

[3littlekeets]

Is there a full moon?

 

Sorry...I just can't help but wonder how far profs are expected to sensor themselves based on what students in their classes might be offended by? Academics tend to be more liberal than the general population -- in language, religion, politics, etc. That's all.

 

I never talk politics because my course material isn't politically related, but I do wear political pins during election time. I do have a "Safe Harbor" sticker on my door to let GLBTQ students know I'm with them in solidarity and if they have problems, I'm approachable. I, on occassion, use gay and lesbian couple names on my exams because I think it accurately reflects the population I'm teaching for and the material, "Kimberly and Eliza are on their first date...."

 

I don't generally use OMG or variations, but I know I have cursed at some point during a lively lecture or role play. I know this isn't about me, but I can't help but wonder where the OP or others draw their lines, kwim?

 

If a student asked me to watch my language b/c it offended him or her, I would likely engage in a discussion to find out why they were troubled, and either accommodate or explain why I couldn't. I happily take critique and i have a great rapport with my students, BUT, I do know the OP is fighting an uphill battle and many of my colleagues do far worse and would be rather catty.

 

Sorry if I got so far astray. :lol: I tend to do that a great deal. One of my most recurring comments on evals is that I go on tangents on occasion -- a habit I simply can't break! :D

[MamaSheep]

Sorry...I just can't help but wonder how far profs are expected to sensor themselves based on what students in their classes might be offended by? Academics tend to be more liberal than the general population -- in language, religion, politics, etc. That's all.

 

I never talk politics because my course material isn't politically related, but I do wear political pins during election time. I do have a "Safe Harbor" sticker on my door to let GLBTQ students know I'm with them in solidarity and if they have problems, I'm approachable. I, on occassion, use gay and lesbian couple names on my exams because I think it accurately reflects the population I'm teaching for and the material, "Kimberly and Eliza are on their first date...."

 

I don't generally use OMG or variations, but I know I have cursed at some point during a lively lecture or role play. I know this isn't about me, but I can't help but wonder where the OP or others draw their lines, kwim?

 

If a student asked me to watch my language b/c it offended him or her, I would likely engage in a discussion to find out why they were troubled, and either accommodate or explain why I couldn't. I happily take critique and i have a great rapport with my students, BUT, I do know the OP is fighting an uphill battle and many of my colleagues do far worse and would be rather catty.

 

Sorry if I got so far astray. :lol: I tend to do that a great deal. One of my most recurring comments on evals is that I go on tangents on occasion -- a habit I simply can't break! :D

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's interesting to think about, isn't it, this age-old question of how much should we be willing to bend in order to make others feel comfortable--whether it's in speech, in dress, in hygeine, diet, or other personal habits, and how much is it reasonable to ask other people to bend in order to help us be more comfortable in a given situation. If we are doing something that is offensive to someone else, do we want them to tell us, so we can at least make an informed decision about our behavior, or should everyone just keep quiet? And isn't asking people not to speak up when something is bothering them also asking them to censor themselves every bit as much as if they were to ask others not to say a particular "offensive" thing? Where do we draw the lines? And how? What criteria do we use in drawing these lines? How do we decide which ground we will stand firm on, which we're willing to give a little on, and which we won't go anywhere near? How do we decide which ground we're willing to fight for if need be? And what do we do if one of our "lines" and one of someone else's "lines" are incompatible? Or worse, if we're forced to play in the middle where two OTHER people's lines conflict?

 

I suspect from your post that you, like me, would find it grating to sit in a classroom where a professor frequently said, "this is the part that's just really gay," or similar casual, but "off" remarks relating to GLBT issues, even if you knew that in her mind she was just using a common colloquialism and didn't really mean anything offensive with the phrase.

 

You're right, it's interesting to see where people do draw lines in these kinds of situations. Do they approve of such usage? Do they just not notice? Are they bothered by it, but not enough to do anything about it? Are they bothered enough to at least have a polite conversation but not expect accommodation to be made? Are they adament enough about it that they will not only demand a change, but will go to the offender's superiors, or even file a law suit? Might they just quietly withdraw from the situation, and withdraw their financial support of the behavior they find objectionable (which is what the OP was asking about, if I understood correctly)?

 

But you're right, it's interesting to ponder where lines are drawn on the other side too. How much should the "offender" be asked to make accommodation? How much should a professor be expected to conform their classrooms, course materials, and personal habits to reflect the preferences of the student body? Should a professor who has a "Safe Harbor" sticker on the door and includes scenarios based on Kimberly and Eliza's first date on exams in order to help GLBTQ students in the population feel more welcome and integrated ALSO be expected to have a cross or a Christian fish sticker on the door and include questions involving situations that arise during David's first year as a Missionary in Africa with his wife and eight children? And could that go between the Aids ribbon sticker and the autism puzzle piece sticker, or should the stickers be arranged by category with the cross next to the Star of David? Where and how does a professor draw a line? How does a professor decide which groups are worthy of small gestures, such as adjusting a word or two on an exam, in order to help them feel accepted and welcome, and which groups ought to be made to feel uncomfortable even about expressing their discomfort, when all it would take to make them feel welcome would be to adjust a word or two in a lecture? How different is asking a professor to at least make a token effort replace God with some other exclamation from asking a professor to at least make a token effort to include Bob and Steve as a legitimate couple? It's just a slight adjustment of language either way. (Though yes, I acknowledge that both of these adjustments carry a lot of baggage. I think it's a valid comparison nonetheless.)

 

But yes, lines do have to be drawn somewhere, or it could just get ridiculous and unproductive. And I agree with you that it is interesting to think on where and why people draw the lines that they do.

 

And yes, academia does tend to be rather on the liberal side, as well as a little more catty and less dignified than some folks would like to think of them as being, and anyone with a different point of view would be very much fighting an uphill battle should he or she work up the nerve to voice an opposing opinion. I find this a little disturbing in a group that ALSO tends to boast of their openmindedness and tolerance, but that's life for ya. :)

Edited September 19, 2010 by MamaSheep

[Miss Sherry]

Anyone for a little ?

Apparently a little pot stirring is exactly what some people have been looking for in this thread. :tongue_smilie:

[freethinkermama]

How much should a professor be expected to conform their classrooms, course materials, and personal habits to reflect the preferences of the student body? Should a professor who has a "Safe Harbor" sticker on the door and includes scenarios based on Kimberly and Eliza's first date on exams in order to help GLBTQ students in the population feel more welcome and integrated ALSO be expected to have a cross or a Christian fish sticker on the door and include questions involving situations that arise during David's first year as a Missionary in Africa with his wife and eight children? And could that go between the Aids ribbon sticker and the autism puzzle piece sticker, or should the stickers be arranged by category with the cross next to the Star of David? Where and how does a professor draw a line? How does a professor decide which groups are worthy of small gestures, such as adjusting a word or two on an exam, in order to help them feel accepted and welcome, and which groups ought to be made to feel uncomfortable even about expressing their discomfort, when all it would take to make them feel welcome would be to adjust a word or two in a lecture? How different is asking a professor to at least make a token effort replace God with some other exclamation from asking a professor to at least make a token effort to include Bob and Steve as a legitimate couple? It's just a slight adjustment of language either way. (Though yes, I acknowledge that both of these adjustments carry a lot of baggage. I think it's a valid comparison nonetheless.)

 

But yes, lines do have to be drawn somewhere, or it could just get ridiculous and unproductive. And I agree with you that it is interesting to think on where and why people draw the lines that they do.

 

And yes, academia does tend to be rather on the liberal side, as well as a little more catty and less dignified than some folks would like to think of them as being, and anyone with a different point of view would be very much fighting an uphill battle should he or she work up the nerve to voice an opposing opinion. I find this a little disturbing in a group that ALSO tends to boast of their openmindedness and tolerance, but that's life for ya. :)

 

I don't want to stir the pot, I really don't, but here's my thoughts on your thoughts.

 

Since Jews and Christians are not systematically and legally denied the rights of other groups in the US that's where, for me, the difference comes.

 

Also, religion is a choice. As LDS, you do believe that's a choice, do you not? (I know children can't be baptized until they're 8, and can be said to make a decision on their own). Straight? You didn't choose that? Gay? You didn't choose that--and yet, you can be marginalized and dehumanized, so says the government and most churches.

 

That's why it's nice for GLBT to know what places/what people are safe. Nothing says other professors don't put up indicators of what/who they support. When I went to a state college, I put up Bible verses all over my office. I even solicited prayers from my students when I was a grad student TA. When I worked in a government building, I put Bible verses all over my desk to memorize and think on during the day. (Eek, I think back on it with no small embarassment, actually). Certainly, the professor can create examples about Johnny the missionary and his little missionary children. But, I think that's a completely different issue than trying to support groups which are legally disenfranchised, and who did not choose their area of disenfranchisement. (See above).

 

T.

[mommaduck]

Now that would be just strange, (which I believe you already know and are making fun of her dilemma) . I have no doubt that is NOT what the OP will be doing. Some of you can be quite silly. :001_huh::tongue_smilie::001_rolleyes:

Yes, I was having fun ;) But I wasn't poking it at the OP. It would be something that would cross my mind to do just to be ornery.

[Honey Bee]

Haven't read all the replies, but I think you should talk to your professor, and tell her exactly why it upsets you. Then pray for her, be kind to her. Jesus Christ really is worth it, it's His honor that has been lost in our culture and our churches. Praying for you.

[tex-mex]

And this type of attitude reminds me of the general attitude that so many have regarding the deplorable quality of instructors and some professors - that so many are unemployable in jobs outside in the real world where they would be required to perform in a professional manner . :tongue_smilie:

Not meaning to argue... but this is why academia is called the "Ivory Tower". Many colleges only care if the profs are bringing in $$$ from research and grants. To be able to keep your job depends on how much money you bring in -- not your teaching style. It is a whole DIFFERENT standard in the college realm. Popping out now... *grin* :leaving:

[Guest janainaz]

I'm wondering how you would respond if one of your kids were in a burning building and a rescue worker, or an average citizen said, "Oh my G*d", before they ran in to save your child from the flames. Despite the thread needing to be about how you should handle the fact that it bothers you, it really does go much deeper and to dance around the real issue seems pointless.

[Miss Sherry]

Not meaning to argue... but this is why academia is called the "Ivory Tower". Many colleges only care if the profs are bringing in $$$ from research and grants. To be able to keep your job depends on how much money you bring in -- not your teaching style. It is a whole DIFFERENT standard in the college realm. Popping out now... *grin* :leaving:

 

Yes, you are right.And I know that I am just too idealistic sometimes. But I do agree with the jest of what someone else has said, if a professor is doing a good job of presenting the material but he peppers his speech with a curse word here and there you can still learn a lot from that professor,and it wouldn't bother me that much. I would think he had a problem with controlling his speech and the words were "low class" but I wouldn't drop the class.I still don't think profanity and vulgarity is a good thing. But I understand that a lot of people who use that type of speech are just not thinking about what they say means. But I can understand that for some people it would be such a distraction that they may even drop the class.

I know some people on here (not you) are making a point of sharing how much they "love" and don't judge others who curse, however, not liking "profanity" and having a thought about what it represents does not mean that those who do not like profanity also do not like anyone who uses profanity. To many conclusions are made by just a few statements made in a thread like this.

I have been known to use a few curse words now and then. I do not like it and am not proud of it. Most recently, when I found a couple of syringes in my back yard, one with a needle an one without one, I said Oh sh*t. I shouldn't have and am trying to stop doing that.

[Miss Sherry]

I'm wondering how you would respond if one of your kids were in a burning building and a rescue worker, or an average citizen said, "Oh my G*d", before they ran in to save your child from the flames. Despite the thread needing to be about how you should handle the fact that it bothers you, it really does go much deeper and to dance around the real issue seems pointless.

 

I think you are being a little judgmental of the OP. She is NOT saying anything about disliking the professor or that she thinks the professor is a bad, untrustworthy person. She is simply bothered by the speech. It seems to me that the OP is actually open to ideas that maybe she is over reacting and she wants to be gracious towards the professor. That's the impression I get. How about giving her a break. :glare:

[Miss Sherry]

I'm wondering how you would respond if one of your kids were in a burning building and a rescue worker, or an average citizen said, "Oh my G*d", before they ran in to save your child from the flames. Despite the thread needing to be about how you should handle the fact that it bothers you, it really does go much deeper and to dance around the real issue seems pointless.

 

That could be looked at another way also, since you want to make these types of conclusions.

How about this pretend scenario : You have two small children with you and you have to go get one off of a tall ladder they just climbed up and the other one needs to be supervised.

Who would you want to leave the child with ?

 

Someone like the man I described earlier - He uses a lot of vulgarity - finds a way to say a lot of sexual things that most people would shake their heads at - can't seem to say even one sentence without cursing and on and on ......

 

or

A man who you have heard speak, he never curses, speaks kindly of others, and so on.

 

_________________

My point is not whether or not someone says "Oh My G*d is bad or not, but that I do think how we speak does matter and does make an impression on others, but depending on the situation , the degree that it matters varies widely.

[Miss Sherry]

I'm wondering how you would respond if one of your kids were in a burning building and a rescue worker, or an average citizen said, "Oh my G*d", before they ran in to save your child from the flames. Despite the thread needing to be about how you should handle the fact that it bothers you, it really does go much deeper and to dance around the real issue seems pointless.

 

Oh come on. What do you really expect her to say "Oh no, I wouldn't want them to rescue my child". I think you are completely twisting what her dilemma is and purposely trying to make her look bad simply because you have a different take on the situation than she does. You are being very unfair and ungracious towards the OP.

Do you really think YOU are the only one who cares anything about others, and what is this based on, "OH my G*d" doesn't bother YOU. :tongue_smilie:

[Audrey]

Why on earth not simply bring it up to the professor?

 

Why should an evaluation be a place where you write in the things you could have addressed on your own but choose not too? An excuse not to do what reasonable, mature adults should be expected to do - speak up for themselves.

 

 

 

 

:iagree: If it so offends you, then you should approach the other adult in question, like an adult, and have a conversation about it. You can't, however, expect that she is going to change just for you. You can tell her how you feel, though. At least then, she is aware of it.

 

Also, if this school is not a Christian school, I don't think you can expect the professors to bow to your description of what is acceptable or unacceptable Christian speech. If this is an issue that is very important to you, I think you need to find a college that is specifically in line with your dogma, because it will likely happen again and again that professors will use language to which you object.

[Mrs Mungo]

That could be looked at another way also, since you want to make these types of conclusions.

How about this pretend scenario : You have two small children with you and you have to go get one off of a tall ladder they just climbed up and the other one needs to be supervised.

Who would you want to leave the child with ?

 

Someone like the man I described earlier - He uses a lot of vulgarity - finds a way to say a lot of sexual things that most people would shake their heads at - can't seem to say even one sentence without cursing and on and on ......

 

or

A man who you have heard speak, he never curses, speaks kindly of others, and so on.

 

_________________

My point is not whether or not someone says "Oh My G*d is bad or not, but that I do think how we speak does matter and does make an impression on others, but depending on the situation , the degree that it matters varies widely.

 

Just FYI, repeatedly comparing people who curse to a sexually abusing, court-declared psychopath isn't winning you points in this discussion, quite the opposite.

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: If it so offends you, then you should approach the other adult in question, like an adult, and have a conversation about it. You can't, however, expect that she is going to change just for you. You can tell her how you feel, though. At least then, she is aware of it.

 

Also, if this school is not a Christian school, I don't think you can expect the professors to bow to your description of what is acceptable or unacceptable Christian speech. If this is an issue that is very important to you, I think you need to find a college that is specifically in line with your dogma, because it will likely happen again and again that professors will use language to which you object.

 

I agree and furthermore, it's been my experience that language is the least of the issues you might encounter. That's just reality, it's not a judgment of any kind.

[Barb_]

That could be looked at another way also, since you want to make these types of conclusions.

How about this pretend scenario : You have two small children with you and you have to go get one off of a tall ladder they just climbed up and the other one needs to be supervised.

Who would you want to leave the child with ?

 

Someone like the man I described earlier - He uses a lot of vulgarity - finds a way to say a lot of sexual things that most people would shake their heads at - can't seem to say even one sentence without cursing and on and on ......

 

or

A man who you have heard speak, he never curses, speaks kindly of others, and so on.

 

_________________

 

 

You know, there are kind, gentle people who cuss like sailors...my great grandpa was one of the best of them. Then there are self-righteous, uptight, petty unforgiving people who would never let profanity cross their lips. The two aren't mutually exclusive and this is veering off into bizarre territory.

 

Barb

[Mrs Mungo]

You know, there are kind, gentle people who cuss like sailors...my great grandpa was one of the best of them. Then there are self-righteous, uptight, petty unforgiving people who would never let profanity cross their lips. The two aren't mutually exclusive and this is veering off into bizarre territory.

 

Barb

 

I love you, Barb.