Talk me into reading the Iliad

[Kendall]

I did Ancients with my oldest 4 years ago and he and I read the Aeneid, Odyssey, Antigone, Julius Caesar, and other things I can't remember at the moment. We did not read the Iliad. My 2nd child, an 11th grader is doing ancients this year and I'm trying to decide whether to do the Iliad. He read The Children's Homer 4 years ago.

 

Anyone want to share their experience with it (positive or negative)?

 

Talk me into reading it!

 

Thanks,

Kendall

[Hannah C.]

I read it my senior year in high school and my freshman year of college, in two different translations. The high school assignments were harder than the the college assignments (and I went to the college my high school teacher attended).

 

The thing about the Iliad is that you have to remember all the action stuff which takes over a page to describe is actually happening in like 4 seconds. It's a very action-movie kind of a book, and it can be a slow read. Honestly, I don't know if I would have finished it without being forced to :tongue_smilie:

[Chris in VA]

I read it in high school, too, but I'm sure Hannah's experience is a LOT more recent! lol

 

I just read Black Ships...by Sutcliff to dd, and remembered how very gory and battle-oriented The Iliad is. I assigned The Odyssey to ds in high school, but he read Iliad on his own--he says it's among his favorite books.

 

If I were going to do it again, I'd assign it along with Elizabeth Vandiver's Teaching Company course. We did Odyssey with her, and it was great.

[KnitWit]

All I can say is, my dd sure is glad she read it. The Iliad was her first college Lit. assignment! LOL! The class moaned, she smiled. :)

[justamouse]

Because when Andromache pleads with Hector to not go to war, it brings tears to your eyes.

[elegantlion]

I read Lattimore's translation last year. Pure poetry. I was 42 at the time and had never read it before. I would sneak into the bedroom, close the door, pace, and read it aloud. I'm sure I butchered many of the Greek names but it was a wonderful experience.

 

Read and underline as you find that which touches you. The phrase "A Generation of Leaves" has become a theme in my life. I would never have stumbled upon that insight without reading the Iliad. I have since seen the phrase used again in other writings and it creates a relevance for me.

[regentrude]

I knew the story very well from adaptations, we had audiobooks, so the kids were familiar with the story - but now that DD 13 is doing Ancients I am reading the Iliad for the first time. We have the Fitzgerald translation and it si wonderful. We try to read out loud as much as we can because the language is so beautiful.

[PinkInTheBlue]

I'm starting it week after next and I'm reading it sort of along with Elizabeth Vandiver's TTC course. I've enjoyed her Classical Mythology course and her Iliad reviews were great. I can't encourage you because I haven't read it yet. I'm just looking for ways to make it easier and even more informative for me. :) Maybe it's an idea for you as well?

[Lori D.]

We read Fagles' translation aloud, and while there are some slower parts (listing the ships, the weapons, or the backstory of minor characters right before they die never to be seen again), DSs (then grades 8 and 9) and I all really enjoyed it. The poetry of it comes alive by reading it aloud together, and we still remember the various characters quite vividly. It's absolutely amazing just HOW many references and allusions to the Iliad we see regularly in other literature, films, TV shows, and popular culture that we would have been ignorant of otherwise.

 

Ideas for "getting into it":

- check out various translations from the library and try them out together to see which you prefer

- consider getting it as a book on tape and listening together

- draw a chart as you go to keep track of who is who, which side each is on, who survives/dies, etc.

- check out these images of actual Troy and Mycenae artifacts

- as you read, also read some Greek myths about the major characters and gods/goddesses to flesh out their characters and find out what happens to them

- watch the film "Troy" afterwards and compare

- check out this great list of activities, including looking at classic paintings of scenes from The Iliad, and watching plays/musicals based on the Iliad

- try this quiz game on the Iliad when you finish -- see which of you scores higher

- try this Iliad version of "where's Waldo" for fun

- play the Trojan War game

 

 

Enjoy your epic ancient Greek adventure together! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Food4Thought]

Because when Andromache pleads with Hector to not go to war, it brings tears to your eyes.

 

:iagree: I read it during my freshman year of college, and it was one of the books that my best friend and I would read out loud to each other (along with the Aeneid and Augustine's Confessions). We were quite weepy at the end - such a wonderful story.

[In The Great White North]

I really liked Vandiver's Iliad and Odyssey lectures, and we will be doing them along with the reading this year (in the car, when I have a captive audience). After hearing them, I'm actually looking forward to reading the Iliad and the Odyssey, where I wasn't before. Since we already know what happens, having her point out the more interesting tidbits as we go along makes it more fun.

[swimmermom3]

I read Lattimore's translation last year. Pure poetry. I was 42 at the time and had never read it before. I would sneak into the bedroom, close the door, pace, and read it aloud. I'm sure I butchered many of the Greek names but it was a wonderful experience.

 

Read and underline as you find that which touches you. The phrase "A Generation of Leaves" has become a theme in my life. I would never have stumbled upon that insight without reading the Iliad. I have since seen the phrase used again in other writings and it creates a relevance for me.

 

Paula, I have a very battered Fagles translation with lots of annotation. I was going to pick up a new copy for dd. Maybe I should get the Lattimore translation instead. That way we could do like Lori D. suggests and compare translations. Hmmm.

[elegantlion]

Paula, I have a very battered Fagles translation with lots of annotation. I was going to pick up a new copy for dd. Maybe I should get the Lattimore translation instead. That way we could do like Lori D. suggests and compare translations. Hmmm.

 

I compared as well. I think it's the Fangles version I also own. Lattimore seemed to roll off the tongue in a more lyrical way.

 

When I started reading The Odyssey I had the Fitzgerald version. I simply couldn't get into it. I ordered the Lattimore version in it and it made all the difference. I never thought I'd be a translation snob, but I guess I am.

 

To the OP, translation may make the difference. I would go to the bookstore and read a bit out of each and pick the one that speaks to you the most.

[swimmermom3]

I compared as well. I think it's the Fangles version I also own. Lattimore seemed to roll off the tongue in a more lyrical way.

 

When I started reading The Odyssey I had the Fitzgerald version. I simply couldn't get into it. I ordered the Lattimore version in it and it made all the difference. I never thought I'd be a translation snob, but I guess I am.

 

To the OP, translation may make the difference. I would go to the bookstore and read a bit out of each and pick the one that speaks to you the most.

 

I am glad you mentioned this and will order Lattimore instead. I am planning on reviewing Unit 5 in LLfLOTR on Epics with Swimmer Dude when we start up school next week. Now that dd is joining us, we'll spend a bit more time on the unit since it will be new to her. There is a section that talks about translations and having both books and the version that's in the study guide for comparison should lend weight to the idea that translations are important.

[Nicole M]

Hello, my name is Nicole, and I am an Iliad-hater. As I have shared before here, when my oldest was reading the ancients, I got as far as Achilles sobbing by the river, "Mommy! Mommy! He stole my concubine!" and thought, If this is the foundation of western civilization, we are screwed. That said, I do think it's important reading, and will have my younger son read it as well, not this year but next. Two things that helped me get through the text are the Vandiver lectures already mentioned, and the book Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Wine-Dark-Sea-Greeks-History/dp/0385495544/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283180906&sr=8-1

 

Also, I prefer the Fagles translation, fwiw.

[swimmermom3]

Hello, my name is Nicole, and I am an Iliad-hater. As I have shared before here, when my oldest was reading the ancients, I got as far as Achilles sobbing by the river, "Mommy! Mommy! He stole my concubine!" and thought, If this is the foundation of western civilization, we are screwed. That said, I do think it's important reading, and will have my younger son read it as well, not this year but next. Two things that helped me get through the text are the Vandiver lectures already mentioned, and the book Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Wine-Dark-Sea-Greeks-History/dp/0385495544/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283180906&sr=8-1

 

Also, I prefer the Fagles translation, fwiw.

 

:smilielol5:Darn it! It's been so long since we've been on the same thread, I forgot to put the coffee down before I read your post. Good thing the cat caught the majority of the spray.:D So you prefer the Fagles translation? Great. Just great. Go ahead and confuse me even more...if that's possible.

 

A huge "yes' to Sailing the Wine Dark Sea. And a big thanks to Nicole for lending it to me. Cahill's Middle Ages book is in my Amazon cart.

[stephanier.1765]

Hello, my name is Nicole, and I am an Iliad-hater. As I have shared before here, when my oldest was reading the ancients, I got as far as Achilles sobbing by the river, "Mommy! Mommy! He stole my concubine!" and thought, If this is the foundation of western civilization, we are screwed. That said, I do think it's important reading, and will have my younger son read it as well, not this year but next. Two things that helped me get through the text are the Vandiver lectures already mentioned, and the book Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Wine-Dark-Sea-Greeks-History/dp/0385495544/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283180906&sr=8-1

 

Also, I prefer the Fagles translation, fwiw.

 

Thanks for the recommendation! I just put a copy on hold at the library.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I don't have much to add, but wanted to subscribe to this thread since I'll likely be forcing myself and ds to read the Illiad next year. We've done children's versions in 2nd and 6th, so I hope we'll manage with the real thing.

 

I'll echo the positive reviews of the Teaching Company lectures. I watched them last year and they're great.

 

We read Fagles' translation aloud...

Hi Lori! :seeya: I'm glad you've resurfaced.

[Guest]

Lori D: many, many thanks for the link to actual MUSICALS and opera based on the story of The Iliad. This is probably the only way I'm going to get my Aspie to approach this one!

[Laura Corin]

I tried to read it last year. I got about half way through. Then I thudded to the ground.

 

Laura

[Starr]

It became one of ds's favorite books. We read Lattimore's translation and used Andrew Campbells (remember Plaid Dad? ) guide.

[Nicole M]

I tried to read it last year. I got about half way through. Then I thudded to the ground.

 

Laura

 

There was thudding at my house, too, then sounds of dragging (to the end) along with gasping (in horror), and considerable gnashing of teeth.

[Ester Maria]

Read it because it's a part of a repertory of a well-educated person, one of the sources of many repeating motives and themes in arts and literature of the Western civilization, as well as to get to know the orality before the literacy in the Western civilization and know the patterns of such poetry.

 

If you find you like it, continue because you wish to continue a work you like.

If you find you don't like it, continue to "know thy enemy".

If you get an allergic reaction upon tasting it, and really cannot swallow it for the life of you, let it be, the world won't fall apart. But otherwise, try to get through it, it's an important one.

[Angel]

Dd 15 read the Fagles translation last year as part of MFW AH&L. She actually enjoyed it. It took some time to get through, but she really enjoyed sharing what she read about. We had read Black Ships Before Troy a couple years before. She just finished The Odyssey and was really disappointed. It just wasn't as good (in her opinion) as The Odyssey.

[Lori D.]

Hi Lori! :seeya: I'm glad you've resurfaced.

 

 

Hi backatya Sue! I'm trying to resurface and be restrained, so I can see y'all here AND not let my real life down! ;) Hey, I see from you siggy you're actually doing LLftLotR this year -- I'll be really interested to hear how that goes over. Hope it will be as enjoyable for your family as it was for ours. Hugs, Lori

[Lori D.]

You're welcome! That web page was a gold mine of great ideas -- wish I'd found it 3 years ago when we were doing the ancients! Enjoy! Warmest regards, Lori

[Lori D.]

Oh, but what a beautifully written tragic ending, like the moment of silence to honor our fallen dead, or standing silently to watch the changing of the guard at the the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier -- it echoes so richly with depth and loss and emotion, and the death of the powerful who boasted and believed in their invincibility: "And so the Trojans buried Hector, breaker of horses."

[Hoggirl]

I just finished this!

 

Did I love it? Not really.

Did I like it? Parts of it.

Did I have to force myself to finish it? At certain points.

Was I sad when it ended? Yes.

 

And you know what? I am proud of myself for persevering to the end.

[Kendall]

Thank you so much everyone! We will try it. I checked out both the audio and print copy of Wine Dark Sea. Our library has the Iliad lectures by Vandiver checked in but nobody can find them Aargh. Hopefully they will show up. How many weeks did your high schoolers take to get through the Iliad and listen to the lectures? Did you alternate listening/viewing the lectures with reading?

 

Thanks again

[Tullia]

Hi Kendall,

 

I haven't read all the other posts, but here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I prefer the Aeneid, and generally feel more affinity for the Romans than the Greeks. Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures didn't change my opinion, but she did help me appreciate the Iliad at a deeper level and that, in turn, helped me better understand the Aeneid. Also, one of my co-op students once remarked that the Iliad contains examples of just about every type of male role model one could imagine. (The context of his remarks was a conversation about which books were considered important in classical times and why.) We read Lattimore's translation of the Iliad and listened to the audio Teaching Company lectures.

 

Martha

 

ETA: In answer to your specific questions; we timed readings of the text to the TC lectures at a rate of 4 lectures per week with one day a week for essay writing. So, I'd allow 3 weeks--4 if you have interruptions or want to assign an in-depth essay at the end.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Martha in NM

[Kendall]

Thanks Martha

 

Cynthia - I suspect my feelings will be similar at the end.

 

This website has a humorous piece called the 6 minute Iliad

 

http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/programs/19961012/96_1012ILIAD.htm

 

I haven't listened to it yet but think my son will want to.

[Dana]

I took a classics course at college where we read The Iliad & The Odyssey (both translated by Lattimore) and The Aeneid (translated by Fitzgerald), FWIW.

 

Picking translations can be tricky.