The Core v. The Well Trained Mind

[creekmom]

I've been hearing a lot about the book The Core, and I'm wondering how it compares to TWTM. Has anyone read it? Strengths? Weaknesses? Is it worth purchasing?

[lovemykids]

:bigear:

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

TWTM is an awesome how-to manual from start to finish and everything in-between. Lots of step-by-step, age-by-age lists and curriculum recommendations. I felt very empowered after reading it. The Core had more 'inspirational' stuff in the first half (including historical details about education in America) and then general info about each of the 'core' subjects in the second half with emphasis on the process of learning and how to teach the subjects (which was rather overwhelming to me as I didn't have anything remotely like a classical education myself) instead of lists and complete resource recommendations. I found that it rejuvinated my interest in classical education and gave me some new ideas (and was certainly worth purchasing--I underlined many passages to revisit), but I still need TWTM for the over-all how-to.

[sassenach]

I'm not done with The Core yet, but I have noticed several differences.

 

First off, the overall style and tone is different. When writing about the overall state of education and public schools, I feel like Leigh makes a lot of sweeping statements. She focuses on a lot of things that just aren't problems in our local schools (ex: specialized teachers in the elementary years). She talks in a lot more absolutes that SWB, and I found that to be a little bit of a turn off. When speaking of classical education, she starts a lot of sentences with, "Classical educators do <insert what she thinks all classical educators do>." The problem with that is I don't agree with all of her ideas about what we do! On the other hand, SWB "recommends" things, which I just find more palatable. That said, I still like the book.

 

The Core is mostly focused on the grammar stage, so Leigh goes into a lot of detailed explanation about her take on memory work. She is all about rote memorization. She has a long list (basically the CC list) of memory work that is unaffiliated with whatever is being studied. She details the whys, but not so much the hows, though she does make a couple of book recommendations that I plan to check out. SWB also emphasizes memory work, but in connection to the time period being studied. And while we're on the subject of time period, Leigh is not a believer in the 4 year cycle or chronological study. (Correct me if I'm wrong people, because I haven't gone in depth in the history section yet). The 4 year cycle is my nemesis, so I'm actually thrilled to hear someone say that it's not that important.

 

I think Leigh's reading recommendations line up with SWB's. For writing, she advocates daily copywork incorporating grammar and writing instruction. She has a couple of great lists of grammar and sentence rules.

 

WTM is a lot more explicit. Even if you just separate out the logic sections, SWB gives a lot more options and recommendations. I like getting to hear another angle from The Core. I think more than anything, it's helping me to flesh out my own ideas.

 

I'm sure there is a lot more to compare and contrast, but dh just got home! :auto:

[creekmom]

Thank you so much for your detailed replies! Very helpful!! Anyone else?

[Tress]

If you can only buy one book, choose TWTM. No doubt about it.

 

However, if you like to read something to give you a fresh perspective, if you are thinking about how much and what or even *if* you want your children to do memory work...then The Core is a nice book. I do not regret buying it, but it is not at all in the same league as TWTM.

 

ETA: I had to buy it because I'm not in America. If money it tight, you are probably better off by getting it from the library.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Tress
forgot something, duh.

[MeganW]

If you can only buy one book, choose TWTM. No doubt about it.

 

However, if you like to read something to give you a fresh perspective, if you are thinking about how much and what or even *if* you want your children to do memory work...then The Core is a nice book. I do not regret buying it, but it is not at all in the same league as TWTM.

 

 

 

:iagree: I LOVED the section on geography and how to teach that, but other than that, it was definitely a BIG step below TWTM.

 

Lots and lots and lots and lots of talk about the importance of rote memorization, unrelated to anything you are studying. I didn't really buy her arguments for why.

 

Lots of talk about what is wrong with education today, why you should choose the classical method and homeschool, etc. That is more than 1/3 of the book.

 

Also, the book is really focused on the elementary school ages, so it is not for those with older kids.

 

You NEED TWTM. If you have the money and time to read, The Core is an extra. I'm glad I read it, but probably won't refer to it over and over and over again like TWTM.

 

If I was going to add to TWTM on my list of must-haves, it would be The Latin Centered curriculum by Andrew Campbell, not The Core.

[mommydearest]

TWTM is an awesome how-to manual from start to finish and everything in-between. Lots of step-by-step, age-by-age lists and curriculum recommendations. I felt very empowered after reading it. The Core had more 'inspirational' stuff in the first half (including historical details about education in America) and then general info about each of the 'core' subjects in the second half with emphasis on the process of learning and how to teach the subjects (which was rather overwhelming to me as I didn't have anything remotely like a classical education myself) instead of lists and complete resource recommendations. I found that it rejuvinated my interest in classical education and gave me some new ideas (and was certainly worth purchasing--I underlined many passages to revisit), but I still need TWTM for the over-all how-to.

 

 

:iagree:

[nknapp5]

What is this book? I tried to google it and I got nothing.

[PollyOR]

 

The Core Use the "Look Inside" feature. There is quite a bit online. I noticed TWTM is listed in the resources section.

[AppleGreen]

 

First off, the overall style and tone is different. When writing about the overall state of education and public schools, I feel like Leigh makes a lot of sweeping statements. She focuses on a lot of things that just aren't problems in our local schools (ex: specialized teachers in the elementary years). She talks in a lot more absolutes that SWB, and I found that to be a little bit of a turn off. When speaking of classical education, she starts a lot of sentences with, "Classical educators do <insert what she thinks all classical educators do>." The problem with that is I don't agree with all of her ideas about what we do! On the other hand, SWB "recommends" things, which I just find more palatable.

 

:iagree:

 

I haven't finished it yet, so my opinion could certainly change, but I am not finding it as compelling as TWTM. Right now I feel like I am more slogging through it, not "I can't wait to read some more". I don't like the emphasis on memorization and I am a little turned off by her tone in the first section, much of what a PP wrote. I don't know it feels a little condescending to me or something. I am looking forward to the latter part of the book and thinking I may find inspiration there.

[monalisa]

She talks in a lot more absolutes that SWB, and I found that to be a little bit of a turn off. When speaking of classical education, she starts a lot of sentences with, "Classical educators do <insert what she thinks all classical educators do>." The problem with that is I don't agree with all of her ideas about what we do! On the other hand, SWB "recommends" things, which I just find more palatable.

 

 

Interesting...I would like to read this book. This mentality is one of the main problems I had with participating in Classical Conversations. It always felt to me like "this is the only way to do classical" when we were in it. Plus, totally out-of-context memorization was problematic for me.

[johnandtinagilbert]

:lurk5: This thread is making me shrug my shoulders about CC :) I'm so glad! I hate when something looks so delicious, then you hear from others and you know it wouldn't work for you. Awesome!

[plain jane]

I really enjoyed reading the book and I'm glad I purchased it. Of course, I come from the POV that I love reading about anything related to Classical education. It's something I strongly desire for my children so the more I can learn about it and the more ideas that I can absorb about implementing such an education in my home are valuable to me.

 

If I had to choose between The Core and WTM, WTM would win hands-down but I still feel there is a lot of value in The Core.

 

Her tone is a bit odd, but I wasn't put off by it because a Classical education is something that I am striving to give my kids. I did find myself agreeing with her on numerous points and I came away with some clearer convictions, which was helpful for me since I did experience some burn out at the end of this school year. *I* found it motivating in that it does make such an education seem attainable as well as identifying key points as to why Classical education is beneficial over traditional schooling. I need that reminder when times get tough. ;)

 

Overall, it did come across to *me* that CC is the way to do things (I'm not familiar with CC so this was my first introduction to what it's all about) and the book is certainly less open ended than WTM in that WTM offers options and suggestions for different ways of implementing Classical education in the home. The Core made it sound more like "this is the way to do it." Again, I wasn't put off by this as I saw it as one person's opinion (albeit very opinionated opinion ;)) and there's always *something* that can be learned from her even if I don't follow most of her ideas.

[angela in ohio]

I'm not done with The Core yet, but I have noticed several differences.

 

First off, the overall style and tone is different. When writing about the overall state of education and public schools, I feel like Leigh makes a lot of sweeping statements. She focuses on a lot of things that just aren't problems in our local schools (ex: specialized teachers in the elementary years). She talks in a lot more absolutes that SWB, and I found that to be a little bit of a turn off. When speaking of classical education, she starts a lot of sentences with, "Classical educators do <insert what she thinks all classical educators do>." The problem with that is I don't agree with all of her ideas about what we do! On the other hand, SWB "recommends" things, which I just find more palatable.

 

I had some friends walk out of a CC Practicum very upset at the sweeping statements about public schools and those who have children in them.

 

Your observations are really interesting. One of my (and many others') biggest beef with CC is the one-size-fits-all mentality that seems, imho, contrary to classical education.

[campmom]

I'm not finished with it yet, but it has been one of those can't put it down type of books for me. I feel that it is giving me a very basic, better understanding of classical education than I had before. I have read TWTM. I liked that she talks more in a general how to do classical than you have to use this or that curriculum in order to do classical. I think that I am finding its the method that makes it classical, not the materials so much. I feel that with what I am learning from The Core I can choose to teach any subject with most any curriculum in a classical way by understanding how to do that. I hope that makes sense:001_smile:

[campmom]

I may be missing the empasis others are talking about it regard to memorizing a bunch of facts that don't relate to what you are studing, because she explains how to take any subject/text you are working from pick out the important "grammar" that needs to be learned and commit that to memory. Thats what I'm talking about enabling me to take any curriculum and teach it classically. I think CC is a nice already done thing for people who don't want to have to do this. I'm doing cycle 1 at home now with my boys- it has been a great learning experience for me maybe doing it combined with reading The Core has taught me how to do this for myself.

[monalisa]

If I was going to add to TWTM on my list of must-haves, it would be The Latin Centered curriculum by Andrew Campbell, not The Core.

:iagree:I was just thinking about this as I was reading page 2 of this post. I would recommend anyone who hasn't read LCC to do so because it is short and very good. It is another view of classical education, that obviously is focused very much on latin, though I'm not doing much of anything he recommends, other than starting latin next year :). But it made me think more about what classical education really means and has meant in history. I also read Climbing Parnassus during & after reading LCC, which was a much harder (and much longer read), that I don't think is necessary reading (but I think maybe I'm just not smart enough to appreciate it!).

[newlifemom]

Well, I just finished it. I really enjoyed the geography section and didn't notice the tone that others did. I wonder if it matters what perspective you are coming from when you read it. I will put it on the shelf, marked up with notes next to WTM as another resource for my hsing.

 

YMMV. :001_smile:

 

 

 

 

[Disclaimer: I am a contracted Director for CC, but I still don't make any money recommending this book or anything else. Unless you join my particular program. :D]

[Lostinabook]

I'm in the middle of reading it & the only part I've thought was worthwhile was the geography section. The other subjects have been done both more thoroughly & flexibly by others. I wouldn't buy it again--although her ideas re: learning maps are really good.

[Tiberia]

I didn't expect to like "The Core," but ended up enjoying it. (It was the only reading option I had on a bad camping trip:).)

 

TWTM is still my favorite, but I thought "The Core" did a nice job of showing that Classical Ed is really pretty simple, normal, and natural. I grew up in the 70's era of weird and experimental education, so it was a relief to realize that classical is pretty basic, and has been around for centuries. It made me think, "I can do this with my kid!"

 

I'm kinda bummed that I didn't have the classical option when I was in school. I would have loved it. So, now is my second chance: learning alongside my kiddo.

 

I think it's worth reading for encouragement after you've been through TWTM with a fine-tooth comb and want a fresh voice. I'm still sticking with TWTM for most of our details, but I got some memory ideas from "The Core."

[everlastingstarflower]

TWTM convinced me that I could homeschool classically successfully and gave me the basis for curriculum choice. The Core confirmed our family's choice to homeschool our children using the classical model. While Mrs. Bortins does make broad, generalized statements about the public school system, there is truth in those statements for some areas of the country. The statistics reported on my local news about the ps in my area just last week were appalling. Because of that and the violence that pervades the ps in my area, I would never put my dc in ps, except for some extreme unforseen circumstances.

 

However, I know that there have to be some ps schools in this country who have not stooped to the level of a lower-than-mediocre education.....just not in my neck of the woods. But, for those parents who desire to give their children a quality education AND who still feel that ps is right for their family, I think that The Core gives some great ideas as to how to supplement that education if necessary.

 

I felt that the main emphasis of the book was to show parents how far our educational system has come from it's beginnings and how it has affected our levels of knowledge, understanding and wisdom as a society as a whole. Also, I think that Ms. Bortins wanted to encourage parents that they CAN do something about it if they don't like the education that their children are getting and that she is encouraging a revival of the classical model in our public schools.

 

I don't think that The Core was written to take the place of TWTM, but to compliment it, IMHO. I am a member of CC and have heard Ms. Bortins speak on other issues and she is very opinionated. I do not necessarily agree with all of her opinions, so I take what applies to me and forget the rest. :001_smile: Additonally, we use CC as an add-on to our at home curriculum, not the main core of our educational model....I use TWTM for that. I will not be giving up my WTM but, The Core was a great addition to my Classical Education book collection.

[Jami]

I'm in the middle of reading it & the only part I've thought was worthwhile was the geography section. The other subjects have been done both more thoroughly & flexibly by others. I wouldn't buy it again--although her ideas re: learning maps are really good.

 

:iagree:

 

I found it uninspiring and highly derivative. If you want a book on the history of education in America, read Diane Ravitch. If you want a book on Core Knowledge, read Hirsch. Classical education as historically understood? Tracy Lee Simmons or Andrew Campbell. Mastering the tools of learning to be a lifelong learner? "The Well-Trained Mind" and "The Well-Educated Mind" are far superior. And if you want to be inspired to consider education of the soul for virtue and wisdom, I recommend "Norms and Nobility" by David Hicks and Charlotte Mason's writings.

 

I've read a lot of books on classical education: history, approaches, methods and found "The Core" did not offer anything new or substantive to the conversation. It was honestly a drag for me to get through it.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Jami

[MyLittleWonders]

Though I'm glad I bought it (I do love buying and reading books ;) ), I am not enjoying The Core, at least as of yet. I'm struggling just trying to get through the first half. Her writing style, to me, is very disjointed (drives me nuts), and like others have said, she makes broad generalizations that do nothing to further her arguments.

 

That said, I think I am going to skip the first part and read the subject sections. I look forward to the geography section. :)

 

But like another said, I would put Latin-Centered Curriculum up there with WTM if looking for another perspective and more information on classical education. If you like reading in general, and don't mind another reference book for grammar-stage students, then The Core isn't a bad choice as it's cheaper than the others.

[angela in ohio]

:iagree:

 

I found it uninspiring and highly derivative.

 

That's the word. Exactly.

[Melora in NC]

I bought it for the geography section and was not disappointed, as her suggestions for teaching this subject were new to me and seem good.

[AFwife Claire]

Interesting...I would like to read this book. This mentality is one of the main problems I had with participating in Classical Conversations. It always felt to me like "this is the only way to do classical" when we were in it. Plus, totally out-of-context memorization was problematic for me.

 

I struggled greatly with this last year while we were doing CC as well. Especially during the parent practicum, I really felt talked down to, as if the lady was saying, "It's a good thing you have us here to show you how to do classical education, because you certainly couldn't do it without our handholding." And I felt all through the year that CC felt that their way was clearly the best, even though a lot of times I couldn't see rhyme nor reason for how they picked info to emphasize or anything.

 

So thanks for all the input on the book. I had been wondering if I should read it, but unless I find it at the library, I'll probably pass!

[Shawneinfl]

but I have never felt like I was talked down to at a CC practicum. I should note that I am a CC Foundations Director and The Core really showed me how truly simple and effective classical education can be. It was freeing to me when Leigh said that I really could use all the resources I have availble already in my home, and that I don't have to follow someone else's suggestions all the time. FWIW, we do use SOTW and FLL at home so I think that this book is complimentary to WTM.

 

I believe that The Core should be required reading for all CC tutors and participating families. Why? Because it fleshes out how to make the CC program work at home the other four days of the week. As I read I kept thinking about K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sweetie). Also, the geography chapter was fabulous and extremely helpful.

 

I don't believe CC is for every family but for ours it has been just wonderful. Not just for the memory work, science experiments, art and presentations, but also for the wonderful Christian community, accountability, fellowship and of course Mom's nights out! Please realize that each community is unique in its personality and if you tried one that wasn't a good fit, there may be another in your area that is a little bit different.

[angela in ohio]

I don't believe CC is for every family but for ours it has been just wonderful. Not just for the memory work, science experiments, art and presentations, but also for the wonderful Christian community, accountability, fellowship and of course Mom's nights out! Please realize that each community is unique in its personality and if you tried one that wasn't a good fit, there may be another in your area that is a little bit different.

 

There have been many threads talking about the particulars of CC and whether they are a fit for each person's family. What we are discussing here, imho, goes more to the underlying phlosophy of CC, as expressed in both Leigh's book and other communications (her talks, articles, etc.) Trying a different community doesn't change that.