Upset with abortion sermon at recital (CC)

[Murphy101]

Sure. If I'm talking to someone about sex, I hope that the words I choose reflect that I'm Catholic.

 

I would like to think that I'm still capable of attending a dance or other Children's recital without talking about baby making or religion in general for that matter.

 

And I'm not a prude or trying to shelter my kids either. My kids know about abortion and such.

 

This isn't even about religion.

 

It's just unprofessional and tacky. If a general prayer was given I'd be fine with that. I've even learned to expect a tithe basket to go around. Fine.

 

But most people wouldn't appreciate having their kids dance being misused as a chance for someone to yammer on about whatever their pet rant is.

[Hannah C.]

It is fine to make the decision to walk out because you want to shelter your kids.

 

It is wrong to attack the person speaking out against murdering babies when the PS start teaching sex ed in Kindergarden and abortion & promiscuity are pushed in sex ed. There are a lot of children in todays society that are having sex well before they reach middle school. How many years do you allow the abortion advocates to lobby the children before you tell them the truth?

 

I'm sorry, I should have clarified -- "attacking" the person who was speaking out against abortion would have had no place in my letter/contacting/whatever. I would have respectfully explained that while I agreed with the person's actual opinion, I felt I needed to remove my children from the situation. No attacking! :)

 

As for when to tell children about abortion..I haven't thought about it too much. Probably during the late preteen years (10-12), or earlier if they were in PS, assuming no prior exposure to the issue. I'm not sure when I became aware of the issue, but I know it couldn't have been earlier than age 12. (I was homeschooled until 10th grade.)

[Mama Geek]

I have an interesting question for those that are Christian and have posted on this thread. Do you pick the parts of the Bible that you either read to your children or allow your children to read based on their ages?

 

I am do to have my first child any day now and fully intend to read to them from the bible on day 1 (OK, maybe day 2 or 3:D). I know the Bible covers many evil topics ranging from rape to murder to infantcide, to wars. I don't intend to bypass those texts until the child is old enough to hear it.

 

To me the subject of abortion in that situation just wouldn't be a big deal. My child would either be too young to understand it or they would be exposed to many or all of the issues from the Bible and it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

[KnitWit]

The issue is with the *venue*.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

I have an interesting question for those that are Christian and have posted on this thread. Do you pick the parts of the Bible that you either read to your children or allow your children to read based on their ages?

 

I am do to have my first child any day now and fully intend to read to them from the bible on day 1 (OK, maybe day 2 or 3:D). I know the Bible covers many evil topics ranging from rape to murder to infantcide, to wars. I don't intend to bypass those texts until the child is old enough to hear it.

 

To me the subject of abortion in that situation just wouldn't be a big deal. My child would either be too young to understand it or they would be exposed to many or all of the issues from the Bible and it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

 

No I don't pick the parts of the Bible I read to DD, then again, right now we read a children's Bible, so things are toned down a little.

 

My major problem with the OP's situation is the venue. It is a DANCE class. Even if it was a Christian studio, different Christian denominations have different beliefs.

Plus, it is MY job to expose my daughter to the bad things in life. I know my daughter best, and I know how to explain things to her. She is too young to know that some women kill their babies because they don't want them. But at 4, if she heard someone talking about "abortion", she would most certainly ask me what it is, because she loves new words.

 

Part of the reason I homeschool is that I think children are growing up way too fast in this society. Once you learn about things like war, abortion, murder, your view of the world changes. DD will know about these things, but I'd like her to hold on to her natural innocence for a little while longer.

 

If you feel it is okay for a child to know about abortion at 3 or 4 or 5, than that it your choice as a parent, and your perogative to teach them. But I think the big outrage here is that the man took that choice away from the parents.

[WishboneDawn]

I have an interesting question for those that are Christian and have posted on this thread. Do you pick the parts of the Bible that you either read to your children or allow your children to read based on their ages?

 

I don't think this question is relevant to the discussion.

 

The issue is when and where this person decided to ambush people with a sermon.

 

Somehow, I'm quite sure that if one of your children attended a birthday party where the host's parent launched into a lecture about methods of birth control you'd get quite upset.

[WishboneDawn]

No I don't pick the parts of the Bible I read to DD, then again, right now we read a children's Bible, so things are toned down a little.

 

Heck, I pick and choose. I don't really think my kids, at a young age really need to have Psalm 137 read to them in it's entirety. They can wait a few years for that take on infanticide.

:)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think this question is relevant to the discussion.

 

The issue is when and where this person decided to ambush people with a sermon.

 

Somehow, I'm quite sure that if one of your children attended a birthday party where the host's parent launched into a lecture about methods of birth control you'd get quite upset.

 

:iagree: It wouldn't even need to be birth control, it could be gun control, a political speech of some kind, immigration, taxes. . . those topics would be appropriate at a town hall meeting, a political rally, a debating session, etc. etc. but this was none of those. It was a recital with a captive audience of people (including children) who came to see a recital.

[Murphy101]

:iagree: It wouldn't even need to be birth control, it could be gun control, a political speech of some kind, immigration, taxes. . . those topics would be appropriate at a town hall meeting, a political rally, a debating session, etc. etc. but this was none of those. It was a recital with a captive audience of people (including children) who came to see a recital.

 

I completely agree!

[Leav97]

If I understand the OP correctly, they were there to see the Seussical Musical. Not a recital. The Suessical Musical is a pro-life musical. Something I didn't realize until I'd already seen it. The wrong platform for a speech but, it was at least on topic.

[fhjmom]

I am going to take the "road less traveled" on this thread and say I can totally see how the director/owner of the studio may have felt that this was appropriate. You said your children presented the play "Suessical". The entire premise of the play is Horton speaking up for the Who's, going to great lengths to save and protect them, and giving them a voice when they have none to anyone else. He also sacrifices greatly to protect Maisie's egg (I think that is the name of the bird that leaves her nest in Horton's care). You know the line, "A person's a person, no matter how small". The parallels between Horton's actions in the play and the issue of Christians speaking out about abortion are really not a huge leap. I can see a director of a Christian studio wanting to draw Biblical applications for whatever activities they are doing.

 

Now, with that being said, I would really have to have more information about how "in your face" and graphic he was in his statements to say whether it would have upset me or not. If he was talking about the message of the play and used the issue of abortion as a brief example without going in to detail, it probably would not have bothered me in the least. On the other hand, if he had gone off on a twenty minute tirade discussing abortion in graphic detail, that would have bothered me.

 

The issue of giving the children bracelets to wear was totally out of line. Do not give my children propoganda or try to make them your billboards without my permission (and I respect my children enough a human beings not to push an agenda on them, I want them to learn to think for themselves).

 

Edit: Looks like Leav97 and I were posting at the same time, I just tend to be much more wordy. :)

 

Tamara :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

If I understand the OP correctly, they were there to see the Seussical Musical. Not a recital. The Suessical Musical is a pro-life musical. Something I didn't realize until I'd already seen it. The wrong platform for a speech but, it was at least on topic.

 

I missed this part of the OP.

[MeganW]

I have an interesting question for those that are Christian and have posted on this thread. Do you pick the parts of the Bible that you either read to your children or allow your children to read based on their ages?

 

I am do to have my first child any day now and fully intend to read to them from the bible on day 1 (OK, maybe day 2 or 3:D). I know the Bible covers many evil topics ranging from rape to murder to infantcide, to wars. I don't intend to bypass those texts until the child is old enough to hear it.

 

To me the subject of abortion in that situation just wouldn't be a big deal. My child would either be too young to understand it or they would be exposed to many or all of the issues from the Bible and it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

 

Kids latch onto things and think and think and think. So you have to be careful to teach them only what is age appropriate or you can quickly end up in conversations that you aren't ready for. For example, we have taught our children the 10 Commandments. We have taught the 7th as "husbands and wives are to always love each other". My 5 year olds just don't need to know the details of adultery.

 

By the way, check out The Rhyme Bible Storybook. It is wonderful about giving an accurate representation of the Bible, but gently.

[Leav97]

 

 

Edit: Looks like Leav97 and I were posting at the same time, I just tend to be much more wordy. :)

 

Tamara :)

 

:) If there is a way to say something that requires 50 words with 5, I can usually find it. I personally found it to be a very bad pro-life argument. And a really cute play.

[KnitWit]

I was not aware this was such a strong focus of this musical. (Pro-life) I have always known the story of "Horton Hears a Who" to be about the value of ALL humans and I can certainly see where someone *could* apply it to the pro-life stance, but it also has many other applications. That said, I can now understand the red armbands that said *Life*.

 

In my opinion, it *still* would have been better to let the musical's message stand alone and let people think about it and draw their own conclusions. As a parent, I think I would have appreciated a note home letting me know that this is where the performance was going and the purpose of the bracelets given my children.

 

In the words of Mary Poppins, "Enough is as good as a feast". Sometimes, less is more.

 

And...I am not pro-abortion.

 

ETA: I was posting and missed Tamara's *further* explanation of the musical

Edited June 14, 2010 by MSPolly
explanation

[silliness7]

I am going to take the "road less traveled" on this thread and say I can totally see how the director/owner of the studio may have felt that this was appropriate. You said your children presented the play "Suessical". The entire premise of the play is Horton speaking up for the Who's, going to great lengths to save and protect them, and giving them a voice when they have none to anyone else. He also sacrifices greatly to protect Maisie's egg (I think that is the name of the bird that leaves her nest in Horton's care). You know the line, "A person's a person, no matter how small". The parallels between Horton's actions in the play and the issue of Christians speaking out about abortion are really not a huge leap. I can see a director of a Christian studio wanting to draw Biblical applications for whatever activities they are doing.

 

 

 

Seriously? That would have been good to know at the front end of this discussion. :001_smile:

[MeganW]

Plus, it is MY job to expose my daughter to the bad things in life. I know my daughter best, and I know how to explain things to her. She is too young to know that some women kill their babies because they don't want them. But at 4, if she heard someone talking about "abortion", she would most certainly ask me what it is, because she loves new words.

 

 

I definitely agree. Different kids deal in different ways. If we had been in that dance studio, I have two kids who wouldn't have been paying any attention and not noticed. I have one child who would probably think it was sad, and move on. And I have one kid who would worry incessantly, have repeated nightmares about it, and think about nothing else for months. This child walked in on me getting out of the shower almost a year ago and noticed my C-section scar and asked about it. I explained that when she was born, the doctor cut my belly and pulled her out. She was horrified! "Did it hurt?" "Well, yes, but you were worth it, and I got better fast." She has brought it up at least 3 times a week ever since, and has had numerous nightmares about it. She was truly traumatized by it, and thinks about it and worries about it ALL THE TIME. I hate that I exposed her to this without thinking.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the scar that an abortion discussion would have left. I would have been FURIOUS if someone discussed this with her without my prior consent. She just is not mentally mature enough to deal with the thought / understanding of abortion. It would shock and distress her beyond what she is capable of handling. As her parent, *I* am in a much better position to judge what information my children are capable of handling. The director of a dance studio is NOT the one who should be making those decisions.

[MeganW]

To me the subject of abortion in that situation just wouldn't be a big deal. My child would either be too young to understand it or they would be exposed to many or all of the issues from the Bible and it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

 

But that's just it. I don't want my kids thinking abortion isn't a big deal. I'm prolife, and so abortion IS a big deal. A huge deal! But at their ages, I would have to sanitize it to talk about it. I would much rather shield them from this knowledge until they are capable of understanding, then have them be horrified at the truth of it, and understand exactly why we are prolife. If it isn't a big deal now, it won't be a big deal later, and thus they may not have strong emotions about it.

[Mejane]

The Suessical Musical is a pro-life musical. Something I didn't realize until I'd already seen it. The wrong platform for a speech but, it was at least on topic.

 

um, no. The pro-life folks adopted the musical; it was not written with their agenda in mind.

[KnitWit]

MamaGeek...there are appropriate ages and stages for everything. You will start your new baby out with MILK...not STEAK. Same principle applies to many other things in life. Be careful because *you* can be your own worst enemy if you give too much info too soon. Children don't have the ability to *cope* with *adult* issues...and really shouldn't have to.

[Murphy101]

I didn't miss the seussical information.

 

It was still a "recital".

 

Musical Theatre class performed Seussical the Musical

 

It doesn't change my opinion.

[justasque]

I agree with the previous posters, it was inappropriate for the event, and inappropriate for young children (when you are not their parent).

 

While I probably wouldn't have withdrawn my child then and there, I would be doing some hard thinking about having them in the care of someone who is that clueless about what is and is not appropriate to discuss with someone else's young child.

[phathui5]

I have an interesting question for those that are Christian and have posted on this thread. Do you pick the parts of the Bible that you either read to your children or allow your children to read based on their ages?

 

I am do to have my first child any day now and fully intend to read to them from the bible on day 1 (OK, maybe day 2 or 3:D). I know the Bible covers many evil topics ranging from rape to murder to infantcide, to wars. I don't intend to bypass those texts until the child is old enough to hear it.

 

To me the subject of abortion in that situation just wouldn't be a big deal. My child would either be too young to understand it or they would be exposed to many or all of the issues from the Bible and it shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

 

I do think dh has skipped over the rape passages so far. I think we've read the kids everything else.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

But that's just it. I don't want my kids thinking abortion isn't a big deal. I'm prolife, and so abortion IS a big deal. A huge deal! But at their ages, I would have to sanitize it to talk about it. I would much rather shield them from this knowledge until they are capable of understanding, then have them be horrified at the truth of it, and understand exactly why we are prolife. If it isn't a big deal now, it won't be a big deal later, and thus they may not have strong emotions about it.

 

:iagree:Abortion is a HUGE deal for me. I don't want it mentioned "in passing". When we talk about it, it will be the focus of our conversation, so she truly understands the horror.

 

I just wrote a paper about how constant exposure to violence desensitizes a person to the violence. The paper was actually in regards to Northern Ireland, but the theory applies to many things. If you see something (hear about something) over and over again, eventually it can become the "norm" and completely acceptable.

It is the same reason I don't cuss around my daughter. I'm not naive enough to believe she will never hear curse words. But if she isn't hearing them all the time, it won't be part of her regular vocabulary.

[AuntPol]

um, no. The pro-life folks adopted the musical; it was not written with their agenda in mind.

 

 

Exactly. A Pro-life group turned the story/play into a pro-life story. It was not written that way . Geisl threaten to sue pro-life groups for using his words to further their agenda. I can see how the connection was made (Though I never did until he pointed it out-I focused more on Gertrude) BUT it was still wrong place and time. He could have simply said "All Life is Precious from Unborn babies to Senior Citizens" and left it at that. Instead, he talk about protesting at abortion clinics, our duty to be an example to the world, this "not" being a political statement, how many babies are killed each year, etc.

 

I was never notified that at any point in the year that this was intended to be a pro-life statement. I was never notified that my daughter was given the bracelet at the dress rehearsel or what it was supposed to mean. The class was given a choice between "Suessical the Musical" and "School House Rocks". Seussical the Musical has been done at several local PUBLIC schools and so there was opportunity for free props which was part of their discussion. In the past, the school has done Annie and Newsies and the higher level class did The Wiz. Anne of Green Gables and Little House on Prairie are choices for next year. None of these scream "Hidden Christian Agenda" to me. The only thing my daughter ever thought odd was that he cut out the part about Maizy letting Horton keep the egg because that was "inappropriate" but they were not told "how" and she wanted to know (and I really was never sure). The Dance Recital that came later in the day was called Narnia. It was basically most of the dances done to Narnia soundtrack, with a soundtrack of his kids doing the roles of the Penvensies inbetween break and his daughter dancing across stage as the White Witch in almost every ballet dance. It was really misjointed. However, there was no message, no sermon, no prayer, at this one despite the much larger audience.

 

As far as I can determine, there was never any preaching or prayer in class. The only other issue I had was on the first day of class, the preschool level dance teacher was walking back and forth in front of us with words written on her behind. I e-mailed and said that they can wear what they want but I chose a Christian school to get away from inappropriate costumes and music, so if I could expect this type of dress from people I hope to be role models, we would withdraw before we got invested. Other than that, I just grumbled to myself about their disorganization, the fact that the classes went late on Wednesday and made getting to Church difficult, and the fact that I had to buy African print fabric for my daughter's Sour Kangaroo costume (and they made an African style dress and handband to with it). I wondered to myself if they knew where Kangaroos came from LOL.

 

I am in several "Christian" organizations: Church, Support Group, Co-Op, Football team, Scouts, and another dance studio that was lithurgical only. etc. I haven't ever had this issue before in those activities. As someone said above, when I signed up for a Christian Dance Class, I expected maybe a prayer, music and costumes that were not sexualized (though the jazz 1 outfits fit my idea of inappropriate but two of my churches pastors and one the deacon's let their daughters wear them), perhaps an occasional mention of glorifying God with our talents. There was no Statement of Faith required. The website says

 

"Our mission is to provide excellent, professional training in a supportive, Christian environment to those in the greater **** area.

We offer dance and theater classes for all ages and levels from recreational to professional.

**** is a friendly, non-competitive atmosphere where your child can build self-esteem and a thunderous passion for Christ."

 

Again, there was nothing during the year that really made me wonder. My daughter sang a few hymns at the voice recital at Christmas but other than that, nothing really Christian specific went on. Her broadway class dance mostly danced to Hairspray songs (which made her want to see it but I said not yet because I haven't seen it but I'm pretty sure it's not "Christian"). Therir dance recital song was one of the few not from Narnia -it was from Phantom of Opera, -with exception the hip hop class, all other non-Narnia soundtrack songs were secular (Lion King, Happy Days, Pirates of Penzance)

 

OH and I had same anger recently when I went to see Rob Scheider, the Comedian, and half his show was him ranting about Health Care. I paid to see comedy, not politics just like I paid to see a musical, not hear a sermon.

[AuntPol]

Children don't have the ability to *cope* with *adult* issues...and really shouldn't have to.

 

Exactly. My daughter who just turned 11 is close in age for some topics. My 9 yo Aspegers son who was in the audience though, while very smart, is immature for his age. Both are extremely sensitive though. My son still has nightmares and is afraid to go upstairs or downstairs alone from seeing a cartoon vampire pop up on screen for a few seconds and finding out what vampires were. Even knowing they are not real and the science behind why people thought corpses were vampires has not helped. He's got a phobia from something being introduced too early.

Edited June 14, 2010 by AuntPol

[simka2]

I didn't realize that this musical was pro-life in it's purpose. That makes a lot more sense. Since that is the case I don't have a problem with the speech or the bracelets. I think they were "in context" so to speak. Under different circumstances I would obviously feel differently.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Exactly. A Pro-life group turned the story/play into a pro-life story. It was not written that way . Geisl threaten to sue pro-life groups for using his words to further their agenda. I can see how the connection was made (Though I never did until he pointed it out-I focused more on Gertrude) BUT it was still wrong place and time. He could have simply said "All Life is Precious from Unborn babies to Senior Citizens" and left it at that. Instead, he talk about protesting at abortion clinics, our duty to be an example to the world, this "not" being a political statement, how many babies are killed each year, etc.

 

I was never notified that at any point in the year that this was intended to be a pro-life statement. I was never notified that my daughter was given the bracelet at the dress rehearsel or what it was supposed to mean. The class was given a choice between "Suessical the Musical" and "School House Rocks". Seussical the Musical has been done at several local PUBLIC schools and so there was opportunity for free props which was part of their discussion. In the past, the school has done Annie and Newsies and the higher level class did The Wiz. Anne of Green Gables and Little House on Prairie are choices for next year. None of these scream "Hidden Christian Agenda" to me. The only thing my daughter ever thought odd was that he cut out the part about Maizy letting Horton keep the egg because that was "inappropriate" but they were not told "how" and she wanted to know (and I really was never sure). The Dance Recital that came later in the day was called Narnia. It was basically most of the dances done to Narnia soundtrack, with a soundtrack of his kids doing the roles of the Penvensies inbetween break and his daughter dancing across stage as the White Witch in almost every ballet dance. It was really misjointed. However, there was no message, no sermon, no prayer, at this one despite the much larger audience.

 

.

 

I'd definitely write the letter. The points you made here are well articulated and would be good to include.

[angela in ohio]

Kind of a bunny trail...but I have long wondered what kind of affect it would have on abortion rates if all the people who spend their time preaching about it and picketing and demonstrating and yelling, would instead use that time and energy investing in the lives of kids/people around them. I know that people who choose that route have many different reasons for doing so, but we do know that some choose it out of desperation and a feeling that there is no other answer.

 

But, of course, actually getting involved in a *person's life* can get messy...it's much easier and cleaner and takes much less time to just run one's mouth.

 

Just throwing out a thought...I have no way of knowing if this person ALSO actually gets to know the people they preach at.

 

I don't know this particular man, but all the people I know IRL who pray outside abortion clinics and attend pro-life rallies also do get involved, either through adoption or children's outreach or in any number of other ways.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Kind of a bunny trail...but I have long wondered what kind of affect it would have on abortion rates if all the people who spend their time preaching about it and picketing and demonstrating and yelling, would instead use that time and energy investing in the lives of kids/people around them. I know that people who choose that route have many different reasons for doing so, but we do know that some choose it out of desperation and a feeling that there is no other answer.

 

But, of course, actually getting involved in a *person's life* can get messy...it's much easier and cleaner and takes much less time to just run one's mouth.

 

Just throwing out a thought...I have no way of knowing if this person ALSO actually gets to know the people they preach at.

 

I would LOVE to get involved somehow. I think that for some girls, it could help to see me. I mean, not to put myself up on a pedestal, but I have come a long way from the 19 year old party girl with pretty much no future to the 24 year old mommy with the entire world open at my feet. I just feel like it could show them that having a child does NOT mean that your life is over.

 

I just don't know how to get involved. I donate the stuff DD grows out of, and when my church collects change I donate, but I wish I could get more involved. Maybe that is how the people who go to rallies and clinics to pray feel.

 

Then again, I would never go to an abortion clinic to pray/protest. Those girls are going through a lot anyways, I'm not going to add to their distress. :thumbdown:

[Mama Geek]

But that's just it. I don't want my kids thinking abortion isn't a big deal. I'm prolife, and so abortion IS a big deal. A huge deal!

 

I whole heartedly agree that abortion is a big deal...I wasn't intending to make light of abortion. I was trying to relay that I didn't think it was inappropriate for a Christian theatrical director to be discussing it.

[MelanieM]

I was trying to relay that I didn't think it was inappropriate for a Christian theatrical director to be discussing it.

 

Which is fine for you and your child(ren). But as long as there's one family involved who isn't ok with it, then it's not ok. Preaching to a group of kids about a sensitive subject without parental consent is inappropriate, bottom line.

 

What if he had been a Christian pro-choice advocate, and got up on that stage and preached about how abortion was a sad affair, but he believed in a mother's legal right to choose? Would you be ok with the abortion discussion then? If your answer is no, then I assume that's because you don't want someone preaching at your child unless you've approved the message... and therein lies the problem.

[AuntPol]

I didn't realize that this musical was pro-life in it's purpose. That makes a lot more sense. Since that is the case I don't have a problem with the speech or the bracelets. I think they were "in context" so to speak. Under different circumstances I would obviously feel differently.

 

 

However, Suessical the Musical is not a pro-life musical. It has themes that can relate to pro-life ideals but that was not it's purpose as written. It was not the purpose of the books from which the musical stems. The author of the books himself objected to it being adopted by the pro-life groups. We were not told it was intended to be a pro-life play or part of a pro-life message that may not be appropriate for children. This was a musical performed by children from 8-12. If he had intended to use this as agenda piece, then he should have used it with the older group AND sent home notification.

 

They were given bracelets to wear to show support for a very politically charged movement without being told what they stood for or notification to parents and then kept onstage while director discusses this politically charged/age inappropriate topic. I was at the last half of the dress rehearsal and this never came up. The kids had no clue he was going to do this.

 

Using this line of thought, if the class would have voted on "Schoolhouse Rocks Live", and preached about drugs or illegal immigration which one can logically pull out of that play.

[TerriMI]

I see little problem with what happened. Our family has taught values at very young ages. Abortion and prolife issues are a values that should be talked about openly and this can be done in an age appropriate way. I think the speech created a great opportunity for discussing something so important. Everyone wants to influence others towards what they think is right.

[Mejane]

I see little problem with what happened. Our family has taught values at very young ages. Abortion and prolife issues are a values that should be talked about openly and this can be done in an age appropriate way. I think the speech created a great opportunity for discussing something so important. Everyone wants to influence others towards what they think is right.

 

Really? How would you feel if an acquaintance invited you over for a barbeque, then stood up and pontificated on the merit of free choice? In front of your children? I have a strong feeling you wouldn't like it.

[MelanieM]

Everyone wants to influence others towards what they think is right.

 

No, everyone doesn't. Some of us believe that people should have the ability to choose what is right for themselves and their families. That would include choosing the time and place to discuss heavy subjects, regardless of beliefs.

[lionfamily1999]

The truth is that if it were my family I would have said something right then and there. I would have walked up to him afterward and withdrawn my child and explained why.

Maybe someone did and that's why he didn't give a repeat performance?

 

 

 

OP, let your dh give him what-for and then decide whether or not you want to leave. There's an excellent chance that this guy already had his hiney handed to him and will never do something like this in the future.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

There's an excellent chance that this guy already had his hiney handed to him and will never do something like this in the future.

After the stunt he pulled I would NEVER trust him around my children EVER again! He has proven himself to be someone who cannot or will not respect healthy boundries. That would be a problem for OUR family. YMMV

[Nakia]

This issue, imo is NOT about abortion at all. It is about using children as your sounding board. ("your" being the director)

 

It is about taking advantage of a captive audience to get your point across. It is about indoctrinating children into your belief system. (or attemptin to). In my mind it doesn't even matter if the parents agreed on the abortion issue it is about the fact that it was HORRIBLY INAPPROPRIATE to use a dance recital as a time to step on your soapbox AND put the red bands on the kids and attempt to preach to them.

 

yuck.

 

Once again, I agree with my girl, Cyndi.

[lionfamily1999]

After the stunt he pulled I would NEVER trust him around my children EVER again! He has proven himself to be someone who cannot or will not respect healthy boundries. That would be a problem for OUR family. YMMV

I can understand that. The OP, from what I read, is in agreement (at least) with what he was saying, she did not appreciate the forum he chose to say it in. In which case, I'd see this as a situation where someone could learn some tact and the relationship with the studio could be mended.

 

I know you disagree with him top-to-bottom, though. I'd be rather surprised if you didn't give him a great big huge omg it's a bird it's a plane it's Cyndi chunk of your mind ;) And then wiped the dust off your feet and left.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't know this particular man, but all the people I know IRL who pray outside abortion clinics and attend pro-life rallies also do get involved, either through adoption or children's outreach or in any number of other ways.

 

:iagree: That is exactly my experience as well. I don't know ANYONE IRL who opens their mouth about abortion and does not actively work toward helping women, either through raising money to help these women financially, mentoring and life-coaching, volunteering, all to help these women get back on their feet to be capable and self-sufficient.

 

I just hate this argument that pro-lifers only care about them when they are in the womb.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

LOL. But, really this isn't about the fact that I disagree with his STANCE on the subject, but the venue, the fact that he used children in his quest to tell people how he felt.

 

I don't like it AT ALL when people USE children to further their cause. There were more adult ways for him to get his point across.....to adults.

[TravelingChris]

We have been involved in drama in a few locations. My kids did some musicals in the military community in Belgium. One of those was Seussical. I don't remember any pro-life message in it. I wouldn't expect a pro-life sermon if I went to see the play again here. My daughter has strong opinions about the evils of piracy and also against invasive species. Should I tell her that every time she gets up to speak she should talk about those things? No. There are some times those topics are appropriate and many times they are not. Even though both things are bad and we should all strive to not encourage pirates or letting loose invasive species, her speeches do not belong at a recital. Neither do any type of political speech or moral cause speech unless everyone is warned. Like if you go to a concert where the money is being raised for the Tibetan cause, you can well expect an anti-Chinese government speech and I would expect the same if this was a charity concert for pro-life causes. It wasn't and I don't think it is the right thing to do.

[lionfamily1999]

LOL. But, really this isn't about the fact that I disagree with his STANCE on the subject, but the venue, the fact that he used children in his quest to tell people how he felt.

 

I don't like it AT ALL when people USE children to further their cause. There were more adult ways for him to get his point across.....to adults.

:lol: I had a run in with Peta once... Yes, it does tick me right off.

 

I guess I've gotten a little jaded with all this. My dd is taught, in school, how to nag people to death for smoking. That used to make me angry (it's one thing to teach how unhealthy it is and how much better off they are not smoking, it's another to make them an activist), but I think I may have gotten complacent.

 

Thanks for the reality check.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

:lol: I had a run in with Peta once... Yes, it does tick me right off.

 

I guess I've gotten a little jaded with all this. My dd is taught, in school, how to nag people to death for smoking. That used to make me angry (it's one thing to teach how unhealthy it is and how much better off they are not smoking, it's another to make them an activist), but I think I may have gotten complacent.

 

Thanks for the reality check.

 

 

Yep, that ticks me off, too. It is okay to teach kids that smoking is bad so that they will come to the "smoking is bad for me so I won't do it" decision, but NO CHILD SHOULD BE TELLING AN ADULT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEIR HEALTH!!!

 

That started in the schools years ago and still shocks me. So now kids are supposed to be the health patrol for their families?!

[lionfamily1999]

Yep, that ticks me off, too. It is okay to teach kids that smoking is bad so that they will come to the "smoking is bad for me so I won't do it" decision, but NO CHILD SHOULD BE TELLING AN ADULT WHAT TO DO ABOUT THEIR HEALTH!!!

 

That started in the schools years ago and still shocks me. So now kids are supposed to be the health patrol for their families?!

Oh yeah. I'm right there with you.

 

It's rather ironic that the mecca for social skills would be teaching children to do that.

[KnitWit]

I think it's wonderful that you ladies know people who get involved in the lives of people as well as being *activists*. Very encouraging...unfortunately, I don't. I know people who are happy to show up to the big stuff...and yet can't even be bothered to get to know people who aren't *like them*. That was the basis of my comment. :)

[TerriMI]

Really? How would you feel if an acquaintance invited you over for a barbeque, then stood up and pontificated on the merit of free choice? In front of your children? I have a strong feeling you wouldn't like it.

 

This pontification is unavoidable these days. It has happened; we dealt with it. I can't control what others do. I can control my reactions, be gracious, and choose to do what my responsibility calls for.

[TerriMI]

No, everyone doesn't. Some of us believe that people should have the ability to choose what is right for themselves and their families. That would include choosing the time and place to discuss heavy subjects, regardless of beliefs.

 

Hmmmm....... Isn't your response trying to convince people of what you think is the right way to treat families who would rather choose their own time and place to discuss heavy subjects? And further, to convince us that the way the owner of the studio made a public speech at a recital is wrong and that you are right? That there is a right way to do this and a wrong way?

 

And do you extend the right to choose what is right for themselves to the owner of the studio? Does he have the right to think and choose to make a speech if he thinks it is the right thing to do?

Edited June 15, 2010 by TerriKY

[angela in ohio]

Really? How would you feel if an acquaintance invited you over for a barbeque, then stood up and pontificated on the merit of free choice? In front of your children? I have a strong feeling you wouldn't like it.

 

Not who you are asking, but I will say that that's our life. :001_smile: We don't believe what the majority of people in our area do, nor do we believe the worldview of those on TV, the news, etc. So all my dc do is see people pontificating on things we don't believe. We consider it a good chance to have discussions. We get lectures on things (that we don't agree with) that have nothing to do with the event at library events, musical performances, you name it... :D