Books about Christian mythology for non-Christians?

[MelanieM]

really have a dog in this fight. But, to the OP, you might want to consider how your original post could have been worded so as to not offend a great many of the other member of this board. Folks in fact you may want to tap for information on other homeschool related topics. Unless, of course, you don't accept advice in any form from Christians.

 

Although you have the right to your wording, your phraseology was less than well mannered. Consider for a moment how your question may have been answered if you had posted a similar request regarding Judaism or Islam on a board visited predominately by Jews or Muslims.

 

Good luck.

 

How was my phrasing ill mannered? Is there something other than the word "mythology" that is at issue here? And again, either sacred religious stories can be referred to as mythology or they can't. Why is it ok to say "Greek mythology" or "Norse mythology" but not "Chrisitan mythology"? I'm not trying to be dense here; I simply haven't seen a response to this question yet. Is it a matter of "it's ok unless someone says it isn't, and then we should modify our approach"? (Ugh. Say it isn't so. That's too much PC for my blood.)

 

Ok... I would appreciate it if one of the offended Christians could please come out with it and tell me... Is the issue here that you think calling your sacred stories by the same term as another religions sacred stories is somehow insulting to your religion? In other words, does it insult you to have your truth compared to the non-truth (in your eyes) of another religion? Is this about not wanting to have your religion thought of as on the same 'level' as other historical religions? I'm wondering if the assumption is that I must think Christian stories are crazy make-believe, because that's what "real" mythology is. Is that what people are thinking?

 

I would really appreciate it if someone would just fess up if that's what's going on. And please feel free to PM me if you'd rather tell me why you're offended privately. I really am curious to understand the reasoning behind the offense. (Though please don't tell me it's because I said something I didn't say; I think I've been quite clear on what I *don't* mean here.)

[Stacy in NJ]

If you entered the home of a practicing muslim and proceeded to refer to their religion as "mythology", do you think that would leave your host feeling cooperative and warm or unfriendly and unwelcoming towards you?

 

While this board certainly welcomes people with differing religious and non-religious beliefs, most folks try to tread lightly. Many religious folks, not just Christian, would be offended if you wanted to use their truths as instructional mythology and asked them to recommed texts to do just that.

[justamouse]

As a Christian I have no problem to the thread title. Can we NOT be offended by every little thing?

[Stacy in NJ]

As a Christian I have no problem to the thread title. Can we NOT be offended by every little thing?

 

Are to talking to me or just the thread in general?

 

Either way, I couldn't care less if you're NOT offended. :001_smile:

Edited February 5, 2010 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[MelanieM]

If you entered the home of a practicing muslim and proceeded to refer to their religion as "mythology", do you think that would leave your host feeling cooperative and warm or unfriendly and unwelcoming towards you?

 

While this board certainly welcomes people with differing religious and non-religious beliefs, most folks try to tread lightly. Many religious folks, not just Christian, would be offended if you wanted to use their truths as instructional mythology and asked them to recommed texts to do just that.

 

This is not a Christian home. And the word mythology is used here regularly to describe the beliefs of various peoples from around the world. Again, why is the word mythology ok for one religion and not another? Please explain your reasoning to me.

 

That said, even if I were speaking to a Christian friend of mine I would feel completely comfortable saying "I would like to ensure my children have a better understanding of your faith. Can you recommend some books so that we could become better versed in Christian mythology?" If my friend replied "what do you mean, mythology??" I'd explain myself the same way I have here. Any friend of mine would get it, and that would be that.

[lionfamily1999]

I want to share something with the people who have expressed aversion to the term Christian Mythology in a not-so-kind way. (i.e. being rude or snarky, questioning my intentions, or implying all sorts of silly things about my original post that I in no way personally believe to be true, never mind actually said.) When I read these posts, it in no way leads me to any feelings of sympathy for where you're coming from. In fact, it makes me want to behave like my four year old and start dancing around the room with my fingers wiggling by my ears screaming "mythology, mythology!" In fact, I might just do that with the kids later for some comic relief. (Kidding. Maybe.)

 

On the other hand, I have appreciated the people who have attempted to kindly discuss why they do not like hearing the term mythology applied to Christian stories. And while I may come to the end of the conversation without changing my mind on the subject (I'd rather see a reclaiming of the word for all rather than a tossing of the word for some), I end up there with a sense of personal respect for the person and their views.

 

Now, I shouldn't have to actually say this to anyone, as I'm pretty sure it's common sense, and the idea is something that most of us have spent years trying to explain to our children! However, it seems that some people are in need of a reminder. You really do catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

 

Is it acceptable for a 36 year old to close a post with "nanny nanny boo boo"? Nah. Maybe not.

 

(P.S. If your reasoning for being snarky is not to help me see your point, but rather just for the experience of snark, then that's ok too. I can be the recipient of snark if it somehow makes you feel better. And if you're that person, I'll just send you a hug, because you probably need one.)

It started off as high road and then, literally devolved into nanny nanny boo boo. The impression I got was that you were trying to rise above, but just couldn't help spitting from the heights. You close with offering hugs, but your post seems to pull more pigtails... Iow, I'd be worried about coming away with a 'kick me' sign, iykwIm.

[Stacy in NJ]

This is not a Christian home. And the word mythology is used here regularly to describe the beliefs of various peoples from around the world. Again, why is the word mythology ok for one religion and not another? Please explain your reasoning to me.

 

That said, even if I were speaking to a Christian friend of mine I would feel completely comfortable saying "I would like to ensure my children have a better understanding of your faith. Can you recommend some books so that we could become better versed in Christian mythology?" If my friend replied "what do you mean, mythology??" I'd explain myself the same way I have here. Any friend of mine would get it, and that would be that.

 

Answering your question: In my example, I specifically included other religions. My point, which I try to make once again, is that when dealing with a group of people with strong religious belief, whether they're Christians, Jews, or Muslims, perhaps it is ill-advised to start the conversation by condecending to them by refering to their deeply held truths as "myths".

 

This was simply a piece of advice from a non-religious person who has posted on these boards for several years. Take it or leave it as it suits you.

[Storm Bay]

What you believe and teach your children is up to you, but this is an open forum, and the title of this post is extremely offensive and inflammatory. No one comes on here asking for books on Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist, etc, "myths" either that I can think of. Had you asked for Bible stories from a nonChristian perspective that would have been a great deal wiser since not everyone has to believe a story is true, but the term doesn't carry any negative connotations.

 

I am rarely truly offended on this forum because I respect the beliefs of others and try to be courteous even when I vehemently disagree with someone, but this was offensive. I hope that not only is this thread closed, but that it is removed, and I rarely hope that, too.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Karin

[Julie in MN]

Ok... I would appreciate it if one of the offended Christians could please come out with it and tell me... Is the issue here that you think calling your sacred stories by the same term as another religions sacred stories is somehow insulting to your religion? In other words, does it insult you to have your truth compared to the non-truth (in your eyes) of another religion? Is this about not wanting to have your religion thought of as on the same 'level' as other historical religions? I'm wondering if the assumption is that I must think Christian stories are crazy make-believe, because that's what "real" mythology is. Is that what people are thinking?

 

I would really appreciate it if someone would just fess up if that's what's going on.

 

There is only one issue here.

 

The issue is that I shared that your choice of words offended me deeply (as did a few others who posted and who pm-d me and who ignored you), and you could care less that I am offended, for various reasons you have already shared.

 

I don't see how more conversation can change either of our hearts or minds, so I think letting it go would be a better thing than continuing to bring up points.

 

Julie

[MelanieM]

It started off as high road and then, literally devolved into nanny nanny boo boo. The impression I got was that you were trying to rise above, but just couldn't help spitting from the heights. You close with offering hugs, but your post seems to pull more pigtails... Iow, I'd be worried about coming away with a 'kick me' sign, iykwIm.

 

Ah. Well, I was just being silly. I would never put a 'kick me' sign on your back, no worries. And I've never said "nanny nanny boo boo" out loud in my life, actually. I might want to try it, though.

 

Julie, I never said I don't care if you're offended. I'm simply asking for people to explain to me why the word mythology, as defined here numerous times, is considered offensive. What about the word offends you? And I know you might say "go read my earlier post" but honestly, that post had very little to do with my actual post on this thread and I felt like you weren't even talking to me, but to some imagined version of me that you created based on one word I wrote.

 

Karin, do you think other threads that use the word mythology should be removed? Why is it ok for other religions, but not for Christianity? That's the only question I have, really. Perhaps you can help me better understand the issue here.

[Haiku]

Why is it ok for other religions, but not for Christianity?

 

Because people think that Christianity should be afforded more respect than other religious beliefs, but nobody actually wants to come right out and say it.

 

Tara

[Julie in MN]

Julie, I never said I don't care if you're offended. I'm simply asking for people to explain to me why the word mythology, as defined here numerous times, is considered offensive. What about the word offends you? And I know you might say "go read my earlier post" but honestly, that post had very little to do with my actual post on this thread and I felt like you weren't even talking to me, but to some imagined version of me that you created based on one word I wrote.

 

Well, I never claimed I was able to write clearly. I only claimed to try.

 

Never have you asked a genuine question about how you could best re-word your thread or in any way avoid offending me, so why would it be wrong to assume you could care less?

 

The whole point is that it DID offend me. The reason I have stated is that I personally would NEVER post a title like yours (despite Tara's insults to the contrary). And the reason I continue to believe you could care less is that, as I've also stated, if *I* personally DID accidentally offend someone deeply by a thread title about their beliefs, I would certainly NOT attack that person! I would like to think I would apologize, bow out, and let my accidentally inappropriate thread title fade into the archives. I guess I can add that I also would feel it extremely rude were I to continually ask, "Gee, what exactly do you MEAN by offended, which WORD is offensive, WHY is it offensive, what EXACTLY are your beliefs that makes this word offensive..." It is not in my nature to feel one must pass a grilling on vocabulary before they "deserve" to be offended.

 

And from the beginning, I've stated that I believe religious threads don't belong on this board, so why would I go against my own thinking in that regard, in order to keep up a conversation with a group of people who feel free to offend and insult and stereotype my faith with broad and sweeping statements that aren't even about me?

 

If you continue to disagree with these reasons, I'm sure you can feel free to post your own possibly superior beliefs here -- or get Tara's opinion, since she seems to know everything. I am too tired to continue going in circles.

 

Julie

[tonya in sc]

but I have read several.

Esp. for Bill Spy Car, since you seem to have a good resource on the more technical meaning of "myth" - Do you have anything that specifically discusses myth in terms of origin stories? That is the way I learned it in college back in the day. Any story of how the world began is considered a myth, just as any poem of 16 lines of prescribed rhyme and rhythm patterns is considered a sonnet.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

tonya in sc

[Jenn in Mo]

This just leaves me wanting to cry.

 

A non-Christian asked about Bible Stories. A Christian got her feelings hurt.

 

Regardless of any semantics surrounding those two facts, this IS the bottom line. As a Christian, that is heartbreaking to me.

 

As a Christian, if I were asking about another faith, I would be especially careful to do so respectfully. And I appreciate it when others show my faith the same kind of respect.

 

Why? Why does a non-Christian need to show respect to our faith? I'm not picking on you Carol - in fact, I agree with you- I appreciate it as well. But a theme running through this thread says that they SHOULD respect my faith. There is nothing telling them to honor my specific wording requests. However, God's Holy Word urges me to not be easily offended, to turn the other cheek, to use a soft answer.

 

The rude responses I've seen on this thread have been from Christians. The non-Christians posting have demonstrated more understanding of the command to love one another than the Christians complaining that their feelings were hurt.

 

 

2. To those who are Christians and offended by my brief post, thank you for attempting to show the OP that you are a loving Christian. I feel you are all also intimating that I am not a loving Christian, and I'm not sure how that helps the OP.

 

It helps her by showing her that not all Christians are so easily offended. It helps her by showing that Christians know how to offer grace - just like many of the non-Christians on this board.

 

There is only one issue here.

 

The issue is that I shared that your choice of words offended me deeply (as did a few others who posted and who pm-d me and who ignored you), and you could care less that I am offended, for various reasons you have already shared.

 

Julie

 

WHY should she care? Where is it written that she should care about your feelings? Where are you caring for her feelings? Standing firm in your faith doesn't mean standing firm against anyone not treating your faith as sacred.

 

A NON-CHRISTIAN wants to read the BIBLE people! Why on EARTH are we licking our wounds on the way she worded the request? Why are there wounds to lick in the first place? She didn't strike us. She asked a question based on her belief system. Her belief system was clearly stated as non-Christian. Why are we surprised when non-Christians don't share our beliefs?

 

If I were a non-Christian, I would think "Wow. Stay away from the Christians. Those people are SENSITIVE!"

 

Please pause before saying "Yeah, but she...!" People are judging Christianity based on your self-centered reactions.

[Jenn in Mo]

As for the original post, I think the Egermeier Bible Story Book fits your request very well. There is zero commentary, only the stories. The stories are told in the same order as the Bible and with similar wording, yet simplified for kids. There is no interpretation given, just the stories. I have not read the entire thing, but enough to know I would be surprised if some popped up.

 

Also, Arch Books give Bible stories in storybook form. These don't mimic the regular Bible language, but are simple children's stories about Bible stories. There are bunches and bunches of these. These are probably available on Amazon, but if not, their publisher is http://www.cph.org.

[smrtmama]

If I were a non-Christian, I would think "Wow. Stay away from the Christians. Those people are SENSITIVE!"

 

Please pause before saying "Yeah, but she...!" People are judging Christianity based on your self-centered reactions.

 

*applaud*

 

That is exactly what I would think if I weren't lucky enough to have a few gracious Christians (like the delightful Daisy) in my life -- and I'm started to feel more and more like those people might be the exception, and the sensitive or angry Christians might be the rule.

 

You can't force someone to respect you or your beliefs at the end of a cudgel.

[Saille]

If you entered the home of a practicing muslim and proceeded to refer to their religion as "mythology", do you think that would leave your host feeling cooperative and warm or unfriendly and unwelcoming towards you?

 

There it is again.

 

While this board certainly welcomes people with differing religious and non-religious beliefs, most folks try to tread lightly. Many religious folks, not just Christian, would be offended if you wanted to use their truths as instructional mythology and asked them to recommed texts to do just that.

 

And again.

 

What you believe and teach your children is up to you, but this is an open forum, and the title of this post is extremely offensive and inflammatory. No one comes on here asking for books on Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist, etc, "myths" either that I can think of.

 

And again.

 

You have no right to be protected from the mere implication that others consider your religious beliefs to be myths/mythos. There are things you can do, if you don't like it. You have the right to walk away. You have the right to not look. You can cover your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears. None of those reactions seem particularly mature or educated, but they exist.

 

This is NOT a Christian board. This is not your home. This is a community of nearly 15,000 people. It has been demonstrated multiple times, on this thread and others, that the people freaking out about this wording are expecting more consideration than other board members receive or expect. Being offended is NOT proof that someone WAS offensive. *Yes*, people DO come here asking for books on Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Christian or Pagan "myths". I posted several examples upthread. Please go look.

[Jenn in Mo]

Being offended is NOT proof that someone WAS offensive.

 

Ohhhhh. I know so many grown-ups I'll be sharing this with. Well put.

[MelanieM]

Never have you asked a genuine question about how you could best re-word your thread or in any way avoid offending me, so why would it be wrong to assume you could care less?

 

I have asked, repeatedly, what the issue is. I keep getting all sorts of stuff about how I'm implying things about your beliefs that I never implied. I've asked how that is the case, and whether or not this comes from the one word, "mythology". All I'm getting in response is a bit of a run-around.

 

The whole point is that it DID offend me. The reason I have stated is that I personally would NEVER post a title like yours (despite Tara's insults to the contrary). And the reason I continue to believe you could care less is that, as I've also stated, if *I* personally DID accidentally offend someone deeply by a thread title about their beliefs, I would certainly NOT attack that person! I would like to think I would apologize, bow out, and let my accidentally inappropriate thread title fade into the archives. I guess I can add that I also would feel it extremely rude were I to continually ask, "Gee, what exactly do you MEAN by offended, which WORD is offensive, WHY is it offensive, what EXACTLY are your beliefs that makes this word offensive..." It is not in my nature to feel one must pass a grilling on vocabulary before they "deserve" to be offended.

 

 

Above you criticized me for not caring about offending you, and now you're criticizing me for wanting to understand the offense in greater detail. This makes no sense. Perhaps you can explain to me how I'm to know what may or may not offend you when I'm not allowed to ask why something is offensive. Should I simply guess at what you mean? Wait for you to express offense and then apologize? I know this sounds snippy, but really... what would you have me do, here? Is my only course of action to bow my head, plead forgiveness, and then walk away not knowing what was ever at the core of the issue?

 

And from the beginning, I've stated that I believe religious threads don't belong on this board, so why would I go against my own thinking in that regard, in order to keep up a conversation with a group of people who feel free to offend and insult and stereotype my faith with broad and sweeping statements that aren't even about me?

 

 

First, this is not a religious thread. I was asking for book recommendations.

 

Second, *what* stereoptypes and sweeping statements? I am honestly baffled at the amount of information you have appeared to get from my original post. (I realize you may be referring to someone else with this particular statement, but you have, in earlier posts, attributed many things to me that I never once said.)

 

Here's a little irony for you... You seem to be stereotyping and assuming a whole lot from my original post. The truth is, I'm a big fan of Jesus. I talk to him regularly. And I don't tell my kids that Christians are wrong, or that they're worshipping a false God, or any other number of things that would be construed *by you* as disrespectful to your faith. So all those things that you believe about other religions do not apply to me and my beliefs about Christianity. As someone said earlier, we simply have different world views. I believe you are allowing your world view to lead you to false assumptions about mine. (Not that it isn't my right to believe and tell my kids whatever I feel is appropriate. Just pointing out that you seem to be upset about things that don't at all exist.)

 

Why? Why does a non-Christian need to show respect to our faith? I'm not picking on you Carol - in fact, I agree with you- I appreciate it as well. But a theme running through this thread says that they SHOULD respect my faith. There is nothing telling them to honor my specific wording requests. However, God's Holy Word urges me to not be easily offended, to turn the other cheek, to use a soft answer.

 

This seems like a good place to say that I *absolutely do* have respect for the Christian faith. So much so that I came here looking for resources to help introduce my kids to the stories held sacred by followers of Christ.

 

The rude responses I've seen on this thread have been from Christians. The non-Christians posting have demonstrated more understanding of the command to love one another than the Christians complaining that their feelings were hurt.

 

It certainly feels that way to me. Though of course there have been some absolutely lovely and supportive responses from Christians as well (like this one!), which I greatly appreciate.

 

I think I'll close with a wise comment from my husband: "non-Christian doesn't mean anti-Christian".

Edited February 5, 2010 by MelanieM

[Julie in MN]

WHY should she care? Where is it written that she should care about your feelings?

 

When did I say she should or did care about me? I said I was offended. I didn't say she cared or should care. I said "I" would care. I said "I" felt offended. I made "I" statements. You made "you" statements.

 

Why are there wounds to lick in the first place? She didn't strike us. She asked a question based on her belief system. Her belief system was clearly stated as non-Christian. Why are we surprised when non-Christians don't share our beliefs?

 

I didn't say I had wounds. I feel I am quite a strong woman and can endure a lot. And I am past menopause so I don't get very emotional about conversations. I do have strong beliefs and I do have feelings, though. I do also speak up; I can't see that much can be accomplished in what remains of my lifetime if I never say anything. You certainly seem to feel free to share your feelings and thoughts, too.

 

Please pause before saying "Yeah, but she...!" People are judging Christianity based on your self-centered reactions.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, but wow it sounds mean and I think you're projecting your own judgments on me. I didn't judge you nor did I judge the OP. I said I felt offended.

 

I feel we are all equally created and loved by God. I feel my feelings and my thoughts are worth being stated. I also feel the reader is justified in ignoring my feelings and thoughts. But your insulting them seems a bit much, IMHO, when I was just stating how "I" feel and not how "you" feel.

 

For non-Christians out there, I would just like to add that Christianity is not about perfect, etheral people. It's about real folks like us :)

Julie

Edited February 5, 2010 by Julie in MN

[HRAAB]

This whole thread has me dumbfounded. Why would Christians, who are safe and secure in their faith and believe it to be the Truth, be offended by the word mythology. I would think they would be more likely to shake their heads at those people who don't have the truth and feel sorry for them cause they don't get it.

[Audrey]

Because people think that Christianity should be afforded more respect than other religious beliefs, but nobody actually wants to come right out and say it.

 

Tara

 

 

Finally someone points out the elephant in the room. :thumbup:

 

FWIW, I call all those stories "stories" and "myths" and I mean that in the sense Bill keeps trying to explain, but around which some people can't seem to wrap their brains.

 

The fact that I also think those stories and myths are purely fanciful fiction is my own separate interpretation of those stories and myths. If the OP had said "I want some books that have christian bible fiction without the proselytization" then I could see people getting offended, but she did not do that.

 

Some people will be offended at anything that doesn't kowtow to their line of thinking. Tough toots. That's life.

[Julie in MN]

(I realize you may be referring to someone else with this particular statement, but you have, in earlier posts, attributed many things to me that I never once said.)

 

I was answering to the group because it takes so long on this long thread for me to copy all the individuals. I think by "earlier posts" you mean my gigantic post, where I said "To the OP and those in agreement with the OP." I am sorry if I generalized there in order to save time. My mistake, please accept my apology.

[Rosie_0801]

For non-Christians out there, I would just like to add that Christianity is not about perfect, etheral people. It's about real folks like us :)

Julie

 

 

We all know that.

 

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

nor did I judge the OP. I said I felt offended.

 

 

To me, it seemed that you were judging her to be the type of person who willfully goes around offending Christians. I'd have thought if you weren't judging, you'd have said "Heads up, Darl, people around here will get offended by that, try asking again using <this> wording." That's not what you said though, what you did was accuse her of insulting you and your religion.

 

Tossing that in so hopefully you can understand why you are being judged as judgemental ;) and no I don't think you need to care ;)

 

The point I'd like to make here is this:

 

It's quite normal to judge people.

 

You know what else? This post modernist rubbish that insists we deny that gives me a pain in the belly.

 

Rosie

[Jenn in Mo]

When did I say she should or did care about me? I said I was offended. I didn't say she cared or should care. I said "I" would care. I said "I" felt offended. I made "I" statements. You made "you" statements.

 

Here. Right here. Where I quoted above. I'll put it in bold this time.

The issue is that I shared that your choice of words offended me deeply (as did a few others who posted and who pm-d me and who ignored you), and you could care less that I am offended, for various reasons you have already shared.

 

 

I made "I" statements. You made "you" statements.

 

 

Yes. Yes I did. I wrote about things "you" said (but not only you) and the effect those words can have on the faith or lack thereof of other people.

 

 

I didn't say I had wounds.

 

 

Dictionary. I haz one.

 

offend: to hurt or cause pain to.

 

I feel I am quite a strong woman and can endure a lot. And I am past menopause so I don't get very emotional about conversations. I do have strong beliefs and I do have feelings, though. I do also speak up; I can't see that much can be accomplished in what remains of my lifetime if I never say anything. You certainly seem to feel free to share your feelings and thoughts, too.

 

Gold star for both of us then. But looks can be deceiving. I'm a mouse. I step up when the situation requires it. I step down when the situation does not. Or rather, I try to anyway.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, but wow it sounds mean and I think you're projecting your own judgments on me. I didn't judge you nor did I judge the OP. I said I felt offended.

 

I can clarify if you want. It might be mean. It might not be. By "projecting your own judgments on me" do you mean to say that you think I'm judging you?

 

I didn't judge you nor did I judge the OP. I said I felt offended.

 

If saying my words sound mean isn't judging me in your book, then....okay. I'm saying your words to the OP sound like they cast a bad light on Christians as a whole...Can I borrow your book?

 

But yes, I believe it was judgmental to the OP. She didn't ask how you felt. You entered her conversation to tell her you felt offended. Even if you did use your nice *I* words, the words "I feel offended" still mean "You offended me." In essence her request for help in READING THE BIBLE was answered with more than one person saying "you're offensive."

 

I feel we are all equally created and loved by God. I feel my feelings and my thoughts are worth being stated. I also feel the reader is justified in ignoring my feelings and thoughts. But your insulting them seems a bit much, IMHO, when I was just stating how "I" feel and not how "you" feel.

 

Yes, the other reader was justified in ignoring your feelings. And you were justified in ignoring her comments instead of placing your feelings above the desire to see her won to Christ. We are all welcome to ignore whatever we wish. And that is how *I* feel.

 

Julie, I know you are going through a lot right now and I would not generally correct someone on a public forum. But the statements you made in the context that you made them to the people you made them all add up to more than one Christian feeling the need to explain to non-Christians that we don't all feel that way.

[nd293]

I would also love to find something like this.

 

I think the best would be a typical children's bible without commentary. We have read children's stories from the Quran, as well as Hindu stories. All assume the reader is from that religion (or assume that they might be), but don't try to convert or "prove the point".

 

There is a series by Anita Ganeri - Christian Stories, Buddhist Stories etc - that we have enjoyed. They include some of the pivotal stories, plus some explanations of history, festivals etc.

[babysparkler]

This whole thread has me dumbfounded. Why would Christians, who are safe and secure in their faith and believe it to be the Truth, be offended by the word mythology. I would think they would be more likely to shake their heads at those people who don't have the truth and feel sorry for them cause they don't get it.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking. To those who haven't encountered the Living God, I'm sure most of what the Bible holds seems like "mythology". That is exactly how I felt before I became a Christian... it seemed no more real than a bunch of creative stories written for entertainment. Of course I don't like that others consider God's Truth to be mythology, but I was there once, and I understand, so I choose not to find it offensive.

 

OP- I don't know of any resources off hand, but I am curious if you are looking for only those "stories" told in the Bible, or for your materials to include other Christian knowledge (i.e. Saints, excluded "books" of the Bible, etc.) What exactly is it that you would like to cover?

Edited February 5, 2010 by babysparkler

[astrid]

 

And from the beginning, I've stated that I believe religious threads don't belong on this board, so why would I go against my own thinking in that regard, in order to keep up a conversation with a group of people who feel free to offend and insult and stereotype my faith with broad and sweeping statements that aren't even about me?

 

If you continue to disagree with these reasons, I'm sure you can feel free to post your own possibly superior beliefs here -- or get Tara's opinion, since she seems to know everything. I am too tired to continue going in circles.

 

Julie

 

Wow. Just an observation, but one could surmise from this post that in this instance, you feel pretty free to offend and insult the OP and Tara, at least IMHO. WWJD?

 

Astrid

Edited February 5, 2010 by astrid

[MelanieM]

That is exactly what I was thinking. To those who haven't encountered the Living God, I'm sure most of what the Bible holds seems like "mythology". That is exactly how I felt before I became a Christian... it seemed no more real than a bunch of creative stories written for entertainment. Of course I don't like that others consider God's Truth to be mythology, but I was there once, and I understand, so I choose not to find it offensive.

 

Thank you, but just to be clear... I didn't say anything about Christian stories being true or false. The word mythology doesn't automatically mean "falsehood". (My personal views on what I feel is the subjective reality of truth are liable to send this thread spinning off into orbit, so that's probably best saved for another day. lol!)

 

OP- I don't know of any resources off hand, but I am curious if you are looking for only those "stories" told in the Bible, or for your materials to include other Christian knowledge (i.e. Saints, excluded "books" of the Christian Bible, etc.) What exactly is it that you would like to cover?

 

That is such a great question! I'm not sure. Basically, I want to expand our literacy on the subject of Christianity. I would certainly love to hear of anything you would like to suggest.

[nmoira]

 

And from the beginning, I've stated that I believe religious threads don't belong on this board, so why would I go against my own thinking in that regard, in order to keep up a conversation with a group of people who feel free to offend and insult and stereotype my faith with broad and sweeping statements that aren't even about me?

Does that include people asking about Bible verse memorization? Or Bible study courses? Or resources for religions other than Christian? How about people looking for programs suitable for specific denominations? For example, I've seen questions about programs suitable for Roman Catholics. Or is it only secular folks who should take their questions elsewhere?

[babysparkler]

 

That is such a great question! I'm not sure. Basically, I want to expand our literacy on the subject of Christianity. I would certainly love to hear of anything you would like to suggest.

 

My husband is going to check his bookshelves for you when he gets back into his office... he works at church and has a large library of christian theology/history/etc. type material that might help get you started, at least. He loves to study World Religions :)

 

As far as theology... why Christians believe what they believe and how the Bible all ties together, "Basic Christianity" by John Stott might be helpful.... but I haven't read it so I don't know how it is presented and it may be more "trying to convince you" than what you are looking for. I'm assuming you are looking for more history-type materials?

 

I'll get back to you when Dh checks his library :)

[lisabees]

Wow. What a crazy thread. What a shame.

 

Melanie, Just a thought. I was looking for the same thing a while back and ended up with a different (and, in my case, better) solution. I asked my in-laws, who are Christian, to talk with my son. Now, my in-laws were teachers and knew what we were looking for - not evangelizing, but sharing...sharing some bible stories that are dear to their hearts. They told him (well, us) what and why they believed what they do...in an historical and personal context. It was done in a beautiful way. I will never forget it. And neither will my in-laws.

 

Now, my son is 13. He knows what we, his parents, believe. And now he knows what his grandparents believe. He is a better person because of it.

 

I am not sure if something like this would work for you. But, it did for us. ;)

[babysparkler]

My personal views on what I feel is the subjective reality of truth are liable to send this thread spinning off into orbit, so that's probably best saved for another day. lol!

 

:lol: Yes, I think this board it a little warmer than it should be already... best wait for a duller day.:D

[babysparkler]

Wow. What a crazy thread. What a shame.

 

Melanie, Just a thought. I was looking for the same thing a while back and ended up with a different (and, in my case, better) solution. I asked my in-laws, who are Christian, to talk with my son. Now, my in-laws were teachers and knew what we were looking for - not evangelizing, but sharing...sharing some bible stories that are dear to their hearts. They told him (well, us) what and why they believed what they do...in an historical and personal context. It was done in a beautiful way. I will never forget it. And neither will my in-laws.

 

Now, my son is 13. He knows what we, his parents, believe. And now he knows what his grandparents believe. He is a better person because of it.

 

I am not sure if something like this would work for you. But, it did for us. ;)

 

What a great solution! I love that!

[MelanieM]

Lisa, that sounds like a great idea! But you know, I don't think we know any Christians that actually know their Christianity. But what a lovely thing for your son and in-laws!

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Jill. And thanks in advance to your husband!

[happygrrl]

Well, this might get lost, but..

 

You might want to check out The Bible And It's Influence. Along with detailed discussion of the books of the Bible from beginning to end, it explains how these works influenced culture, art, politics, etc. I have to add that I have not held it in my hands yet, but I have heard good things about it from people I like. It appears to be a beautiful book as well.

Best wishes! :)

 

Edited to add: I think this book is meant to be a high school text, but from samples I believe my younger kids could benefit (especially if I read aloud and discussed). Not the same level as D'Aulaires, sorry!

 

 

Does anyone have a recommendation for a great kids book of Christian bible stories suitable for a non-Christian home? Is there anything out there that is similar to the D'Aulaires Book of Greek Myths with Christian content?

 

Basically I'd like to find something that doesn't speak to the reader as if s/he believes the story as fact, or necessarily worships the Christian God. Suggestions?

Edited February 5, 2010 by happygrrl

[lisabees]

Lisa, that sounds like a great idea! But you know, I don't think we know any Christians that actually know their Christianity. But what a lovely thing for your son and in-laws!

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Jill. And thanks in advance to your husband!

 

Yes, that would be a problem. I couldn't have asked anyone else. My in-laws are quite the academics, so they're very informed of Christianity's roots! It was right up their alley! ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

Disclosure: I stopped reading after the last quoted post. I am a Christian, Jehovah's Witness.

I am an atheist and I do put Bible stories in the same category as Greek and Indian myths. I believe all the stories are worth hearing and learning to be well learned and relevant. For instance I want my kids to know what "food of the gods" is and what it means to be "facing Goliath" but I don't teach any of the stories as truths. I find it funny actually that I could anger someone with that information. Why would it make someone else anger that I don't believe what they believe? I don't get it. Sue me. :tongue_smilie:

 

I agree with this has been blown way out of proportion. I tell my kids daily that no one can make you mad. You can choose to be mad but they cannot make you mad because you are in control of your own emotions. I also find it amusing that some Christians will beat down every other religion in the world as untrue but if you even hint that the stories in the Bible may well be just stories, you will be dragged over the coals. :tongue_smilie:

 

OP: Even though we are atheist, I have a Bible and a Children's story Bible. I just discuss with the kids as we read the stories what we believe just as anyone else would. So far, it's not caused any problems or confusion in our house. ;)

I appreciate that you include stories from the Bible when you are learning about myths. Would I prefer that you omit stories from the Bible altogether?

 

"Food of the Gods" is the title of a Sumerian myth.

 

Really, if you don't want commentary, this is the way to do it. I have looked at a lot of children's Bible story books, and they all have a slant. The slants are quite different from each other, but they are definitely there in all of them.

I tend to agree. I wouldn't use most Bible story books. I found a children's Bible on archive.org that was very old and seemed to be an actual Bible in simpler terms. There are also books written by Unitarian Universalists, but they have a slant as well... a decidedly secular one. I also enjoyed "All About Passover" which has the Bible story and is from a Jewish source.

 

Given OP was asking for sec/non-xtian resources, the thread was hardly directed at xtians!

I was thinking the same thing.

[Spy Car]

Well, this might get lost, but..

 

You might want to check out The Bible And It's Influence. Along with detailed discussion of the books of the Bible from beginning to end, it explains how these works influenced culture, art, politics, etc. I have to add that I have not held it in my hands yet, but I have heard good things about it from people I like. It appears to be a beautiful book as well.

Best wishes! :)

 

Edited to add: I think this book is meant to be a high school text, but from samples I believe my younger kids could benefit (especially if I read aloud and discussed). Not the same level as D'Aulaires, sorry!

 

Thanks for mentioning this work. I recalled seeing this in the past, but was struggling (unsuccessfully) to remember the name.

 

I haven't see it first-hand either, but I know the intent was for this to be a work that would pass muster for teaching Biblical literacy and its cultural importance, in schools (including public schools).

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

You might want to check out The Bible And It's Influence. Along with detailed discussion of the books of the Bible from beginning to end, it explains how these works influenced culture, art, politics, etc. I have to add that I have not held it in my hands yet, but I have heard good things about it from people I like. It appears to be a beautiful book as well.

Best wishes! :)

!

 

What a useful sounding book. Thank you. Thank goodness too, for Amazon.com and their wishlist function :D

 

Rosie

[Spy Car]

To those who haven't encountered the Living God, I'm sure most of what the Bible holds seems like "mythology". That is exactly how I felt before I became a Christian... it seemed no more real than a bunch of creative stories written for entertainment. Of course I don't like that others consider God's Truth to be mythology, but I was there once, and I understand, so I choose not to find it offensive.

 

 

I know it's going to be a losing battle, but I'd just like to point out (one last time) that the Christian Bible stories could at one-and-the-same-time be "God's Truth" and "mythology", because myth and mythology do not mean "false story" they mean a "sacred story."

 

One may (or may not) believe in the truth of the sacred stories of other cultures (or ones own dominant culture) but the term myth does not carry that value judgement despite the obvious misunderstanding evidenced in this thread.

 

Where is "the Over-mind" when we need her?

 

Bill

Edited February 5, 2010 by Spy Car

[Jenn in Mo]

If it helps, Bill, you converted me last week. I feel so much smarter now.:D

[Spy Car]

If it helps, Bill, you converted me last week. I feel so much smarter now.:D

 

It actually does help a great deal :001_smile:

 

I sometimes think I'm jousting at windmills.

 

Do you think if we all tried understanding each other a little more, maybe there would be fewer hurt feelings and a greater exchange of ideas?

 

Crazy talk :tongue_smilie:

 

To dream the impossible dream

To fight the unbeatable foe

To bear with unbearable sorrow

To run where the brave dare not go

To right the unrightable wrong

To love pure and chaste from afar

To try when your arms are too weary

To reach the unreachable star

 

This is my quest

To follow that star

No matter how hopeless

No matter how far

 

Bill (who hurt himself on that last high-note :D)

[happygrrl]

Thanks for mentioning this work. I recalled seeing this in the past, but was struggling (unsuccessfully) to remember the name.

 

I haven't see it first-hand either, but I know the intent was for this to be a work that would pass muster for teaching Biblical literacy and its cultural importance, in schools (including public schools).

 

Bill

 

What a useful sounding book. Thank you. Thank goodness too, for Amazon.com and their wishlist function :D

 

Rosie

 

It sounds like a good one, but I would love to see it firsthand. The price has dropped a bit; when it hits my comfort zone I'll get it and write a report. :)

[Rosie_0801]

It sounds like a good one, but I would love to see it firsthand. The price has dropped a bit; when it hits my comfort zone I'll get it and write a report. :)

 

:D I have plenty of things sitting on my wishlist waiting for people richer than I to post feedback.

 

Rosie

[oldskool]

As a Muslim I also found this post to be offensive. There are many more respectful ways of getting people to share resources. Just the fact that the thread was titled with the words "Christian mythology" gives the sense that a point was trying to be made. This could have been worded much differently, and in fact, over the years I have seen this topic approached in a much kinder way. To me it came across as an in your face question. I also don't buy into the "let's look at the definition of mythology" bit. This is simply trying to find an excuse to what was poorly worded in the first place and to which I am sure an encyclopedic definition did not provide the guiding light. Connotation goes a long way.

 

Lesley

[Spy Car]

I also don't buy into the "let's look at the definition of mythology" bit.

 

 

You can chose ignorance over education, but that is the choice you're making when you choose to ignore or dismiss the long-established meanings of words in the English language.

 

There is nothing offensive about discussing Christian Mythology, Jewish Mythology, Islamic Mythology, Hindu Mythology, Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology or any other Mythology.

 

Bill

[oldskool]

I am not choosing ignorance over education. As a librarian I am certainly educated about where many libraries choose to house religious texts (mythology). I have no problem with those who believe the stories and parables as fiction, heck many people of faith don't actually believe them either and follow religion as a cultural tradition instead. So, the offense is not at the belief. It is at the language that was used in a forum that includes, which can be understood after being on this board for any length of time, some Christians who would be offended with the terms Mythology and Christian being strung together in a post title. As I previously stated, I have seen this type of dialogue happen many times before where somebody will ask for a resource and within a post text would say "by the way I am looking for something secular because we are non-Christian". IMHO this is going to create less spark then Christian Mythology. If you see that I am choosing to overlook long established meanings of mythology...so be it. There are contextual meanings as well as definitions. For example, taken out of context your comment may be understood to mean that you see anybody who is not solely looking at the same long standing definitions and within the same box as you are as an ignorant person. ;)

[Spy Car]

I am not choosing ignorance over education. As a librarian I am certainly educated about where many libraries choose to house religious texts (mythology). I have no problem with those who believe the stories and parables as fiction, heck many people of faith don't actually believe them either and follow religion as a cultural tradition instead.

 

Mythology doesn't mean "fiction". Libraries keep their Mythology books in the "non-fiction" section, which you ought to know being a librarian.

 

And, as a librarian you ought to have access to the OED, look up the definition of "Myth" for yourself.

 

So, the offense is not at the belief. It is at the language that was used in a forum that includes, which can be understood after being on this board for any length of time, some Christians who would be offended with the terms Mythology and Christian being strung together in a post title.

 

The myriad of things that CAN cause offense on this forum knows no bounds.

 

I'm offended by ignorance of the English language as it relates to "Myth" in the context of a forum on "Classical Education." If we can't get the basics straight here, what hope do we have?

 

If you see that I am choosing to overlook long established meanings of mythology...so be it.

 

That's what I see. You are overlooking the long established meaning of the term mythology.

 

There are contextual meanings as well as definitions. For example, taken out of context your comment may be understood to mean that you see anybody who is not solely looking at the same long standing definitions and within the same box as you are as an ignorant person. ;)

 

No, that would be in context. Either one uses terminology correctly, or one misuses the language. Simple as that. One way marks the usage of a well-educated person, and the other does not.

 

And this is a forum for those striving to develop Well-Educated and Well-Trained Minds.

 

Bill

Edited February 5, 2010 by Spy Car