OnTheBrink Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Not having "tea" isn't the problem. It's the symptom of a deeper problem. I think they (or he, maybe) need some biblical counsel to get to the real issue. I think denying your spouse is sin, unless it's an agreed-upon time for a specific purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 So then we are back to the age-old question of what are the biblical reasons for divorce? I was raised to believe and reading the Bible has lead me to believe that adultery was the only allowable reason but things like this make me wonder..... __________________ Don't even get me started on the divorce verses and the conservative Christian culture around them. ;) Let me ask you this.....is the "marriage" or relationship she's in in line with God's design for marriage? For echad? For being one flesh? She's not going to be out of Biblical living by divorcing - the marriage is already out of Biblical living. Yes, God hates divorce. I believe that's true because he hates the marriages that make divorce a reality. There are plenty of divorced marriages that never get the paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Not having "tea" isn't the problem. It's the symptom of a deeper problem. I think they (or he, maybe) need some biblical counsel to get to the real issue. I think denying your spouse is sin, unless it's an agreed-upon time for a specific purpose. :iagree: I'm sad to suspect getting Biblical counsel in this case is unlikely, but I'm praying otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Putting in a effort is an interesting way of thinking about it. lol Hasn't anyone ever not felt like it, but began and ended up enjoying themselves and being glad they 'made an effort'. Yup. Especially since having RSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Putting in a effort is an interesting way of thinking about it. lol Hasn't anyone ever not felt like it, but began and ended up enjoying themselves and being glad they 'made an effort'. Yes. I've discovered over the years that that trying or "making the effort" leads to wanting to. I think the phrasing is unfortunate. I've also discovered that having more tea leads to wanting more tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Upon rereading the OP I'm not sure why getting divorced after the youngest leaves for college is 'okay' but there is a question of whether it's 'okay' to do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Maybe I'm too middle-aged, but I'd rather do without than think my partner is putting in "an effort". What a passion-killer. I should have worded my statement more carefully. When I wrote that he has made no effort, I did not mean an effort to have sex. I meant an effort to work out the kinks in the marriage. I agree with kalanamak. Who wants a pity-tea. Edited November 13, 2009 by tdeveson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Yes. I've discovered over the years that that trying or "making the effort" leads to wanting to. I think the phrasing is unfortunate. I've also discovered that having more tea leads to wanting more tea. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Upon rereading the OP I'm not sure why getting divorced after the youngest leaves for college is 'okay' but there is a question of whether it's 'okay' to do it now. Because when the youngest leaves for college, his/her life will not be disrupted by a divorce. They'll be out of the nest and while it will still be hard, it will not affect their day-to-day lives as if they have to watch their father packing up in front of them. I think it's perfectly alright for her to dump the lamer now or later. (Although I also would wait until later for the kids' sake, if I could stand it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Yes. I've discovered over the years that that trying or "making the effort" leads to wanting to. I think the phrasing is unfortunate. I've also discovered that having more tea leads to wanting more tea. This is a true fact. I wonder if it works for men too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I understand that, I was meaning from a Biblical pov since the OP has mentioned that a couple of times. Either it's Biblically acceptable now or it isn't, but the religous acceptability isn't going to change when Little Susie heads to Notre Dame. Personally, as someone who grew up with parents who stayed together "for the kids", I'd have papers filed tomorrow. Broken families aren't just ones whose parents live apart and nobody is doing the kids any favors when they stay in relationships like that. (ETA: And when they divorced when I was 19 my life was very much upended, even though I had lived on my own for a couple of years at that point) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I understand that, I was meaning from a Biblical pov since the OP has mentioned that a couple of times. Either it's Biblically acceptable now or it isn't, but the religous acceptability isn't going to change when Little Susie heads to Notre Dame. Personally, as someone who grew up with parents who stayed together "for the kids", I'd have papers filed tomorrow. Broken families aren't just ones whose parents live apart and nobody is doing the kids any favors when they stay in relationships like that. Because when the youngest leaves for college, his/her life will not be disrupted by a divorce. They'll be out of the nest and while it will still be hard, it will not affect their day-to-day lives as if they have to watch their father packing up in front of them. I think it's perfectly alright for her to dump the lamer now or later. (Although I also would wait until later for the kids' sake, if I could stand it.) I often wonder about this. I think that "for the kids" often misses a very important point. Depending on the level of courtesy, kindness, affection and mutuality in the relationship, I don't automatically assume that staying longer = better. I think it CAN be a good choice for kids to stay. I just don't think it's automatically so. I think that raising kids in a non marriage ALSO carries a lifetime of issues for those kids, starting with a poor and sad example of what marriage and intimacy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Divorce isn't the answer. Divorce is never a good option for the children even if they are no longer in the home. Does she really want to have her adult children and grandchildren having to deal with which parent to visit on holidays for the rest. of . her . life? Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. I would suggest something like the Love Dare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Does she really want to have her adult children and grandchildren having to deal with which parent to visit on holidays for the rest. of . her . life? I've never denied a selfish streak but, seriously, my happiness versus Grandkid going to visit Grandpa instead of me on Christmas Eve? Give me happiness. I will make all attempts at making the people I love in life happy. That does not include forfeiting my own happiness. Further, I don't know what adult child would be so selfish as to want Mom and Dad to stay together to make holidays and special events less awkward, even if Mom and Dad are obviously unhappy together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I've never denied a selfish streak but, seriously, my happiness versus Grandkid going to visit Grandpa instead of me on Christmas Eve? Give me happiness. I will make all attempts at making the people I love in life happy. That does not include forfeiting my own happiness. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 She should look for this book at her library or bookstore. If the husband is unwilling to make any effort, go to counseling, or get medical evaluation for low testosterone levels, then my assumption is that he is gay or having an affair. Michelle T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I guess that's part of why I asked...is "tea" a marital expectation/right as far as the bible is concerned and if so does the absence of it allow for divorce? Heather, this is my opinion... The Bible only allows for divorce if there has been adultery. Period. I would never counsel another believer to divorce for any other reason. You asked, and that's my belief. Of course I understand you hurting for your friend. Of course I understand it must be hard to be in a difficult marriage. But the Bible says what it says. Be there for her. Listen. Help how you can. But continue to be sure to offer advice based on the Bible, and not your flesh. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Heather, this is my opinion... The Bible only allows for divorce if there has been adultery. Period. I would never counsel another believer to divorce for any other reason. Then I would also counsel her to hire a private detective. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Nope. Not a good enough reason for divorce. Although... spouses are commanded in scripture not to deny the other.... so it is a right. Just not one to divorce over. The saying "the grass is always greener" may turn out to be true of your friend, especially if she follows through with her plan. I think she'd regret it. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Then I would also counsel her to hire a private detective. But that's just me. Certainly not a bad idea. It is, in fact, exactly what my own father did to know for sure that my mother was cheating on him. When I was three years old. Not pretty, but sometimes it needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Because when the youngest leaves for college, his/her life will not be disrupted by a divorce. They'll be out of the nest and while it will still be hard, it will not affect their day-to-day lives as if they have to watch their father packing up in front of them. I think it's perfectly alright for her to dump the lamer now or later. (Although I also would wait until later for the kids' sake, if I could stand it.) Watching my sil and her husband go through a divorce right now, I'd have to say I disagree with this. It has been very damaging to their college-age children. They go through times of hating each parent, their own relationships have suffered because everyone has an opinion over who is right and who is wrong. They are still being pulled in two different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The whole issue of kids is tricky. If a marriage is troubled enough that it is causing significant stress to one or both spouses, then the kids are being affected, whether the kids know the marriage is troubled or not. In fact, I think sometimes the fact that kids don't know what is causing the stress makes the effect on the kids particularly insidious. (They are more likely to internalize it because there is no obvious source.) Whether staying together is worse on the kids than a divorce is a tough question, one I don't claim to be able to answer. And I think the answer varies from family to family and even from kid to kid within a family. I would not advise anyone else on whether or not they should divorce, but I would encourage men and women in troubled marriages to practice good self-care so they could parent as well as possible in the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Divorce isn't the answer. Divorce is never a good option for the children even if they are no longer in the home. Does she really want to have her adult children and grandchildren having to deal with which parent to visit on holidays for the rest. of . her . life? Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. I would suggest something like the Love Dare. Wait... What? Never? Never a good option? I would probably be dead today if I didn't get a divorce. My son would be growing up in fear or maybe not growing up at all if my husband turned as violent with him as he was with me... Sometimes divorce is a great option. Sometimes divorce is great for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Don't even get me started on the divorce verses and the conservative Christian culture around them. ;) Let me ask you this.....is the "marriage" or relationship she's in in line with God's design for marriage? For echad? For being one flesh? She's not going to be out of Biblical living by divorcing - the marriage is already out of Biblical living. Yes, God hates divorce. I believe that's true because he hates the marriages that make divorce a reality. There are plenty of divorced marriages that never get the paper. Joanne, I do understand that you were in a horrible marriage...and I myself am in the middle of a divorce after spending 26 years in mostly pure torture....However, your post above sounds like justification. I read Scripture to indicate that the only acceptable reason for divorce and remarriage is adultery. That is not to say that some situations make it impossible to actually live together as husband and wife. (I'm thinking extreme things like abuse/addiction/). Further I do totally agree that NO ONE except God can fully know what goes on in a marriage. People will divorce over legitimate reasons and people will divorce over frivilous selfish reasons. However, there is a standard that we should apply (only adultery allows for divorce and remarriage) and do our best to live up to that. My marriage was so bad that I had to literally pretend he didn't exist most of the time. After a weekend with him the stress would often throw me into a full TMJ episode that would keep me down for days. Still I stayed and did my best to do MY Best even though so few of my needs were being met. I built my own life. I focused on the positives. I blocked him out in all ways I could. I managed. Gotta say though that when I received confirmation of an affair I was practically on my knees thanking God for the gift of Clarity and my way out. I would never tell a friend that her marriage wasn't that bad and she should stick it out. I would tell her as I've told many, 'You know when you've had enough and God does too. You don't have to answser to anyone else, but I'm not going to tell you what you should do.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'd add one more. Porn addiction. Porn addiction often leads to little or no marital sex. Absolutely. First hand knowledge here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. My dh has a "few times a year" libido and we've talked about it extensively. He's not doing anything alone, with someone else, having regular, uh, emissions just because he's a man and "needs" to. He doesn't have low testosterone or any physical issues except being overweight. Yes, he's spoken to a dr. (I've even lost a bunch of weight and look much better than I have in years and he says my appearance doesn't matter at all because he loves me no matter what. He's just not into it.) So, I hate to say it but there is little recourse for a spouse like me. So how do you deal with it? Do you just focus on the positives and choose to love him anyway? Is there enough good to outweigh this bad? I'm curiouis if you are fostering resentment or if you are generally happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I don't think you should give her advice about what she should do with her marriage. I think being supportive and empathetic is the best course. In the end this is a decision that she has to make. If she asks you if you think it's OK to divorce then you should put the question back to her. She's the one that needs to make the evaluation of her marriage. :iagree: Only she can say if she really really can't take anymore of life with this man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I often wonder about this. I think that "for the kids" often misses a very important point. Depending on the level of courtesy, kindness, affection and mutuality in the relationship, I don't automatically assume that staying longer = better. I think it CAN be a good choice for kids to stay. I just don't think it's automatically so. I totally agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Then I would also counsel her to hire a private detective. But that's just me. Yep. I totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Then I would also counsel her to hire a private detective. But that's just me. Totally agree. I became my own detective and found out way more than I wanted to know! I surely didn't need pictures to back it up! As far as biblical divorce, the only exception is adultery. Greek word porneia, which means sexual intercourse between two unmarried people. Abuse is never condoned in scripture, ever. Scripture is full of verses on how to treat husbands, wives, children, each other. Marriage doesn't change those admonishments in any way. There is not one verse that tells a man he can abuse his wife, or vice versa. But, there are plenty of scriptures that tell spouses not to withhold sex, to put aside self for the betterment of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Give me happiness. I will make all attempts at making the people I love in life happy. That does not include forfeiting my own happiness. Further, I don't know what adult child would be so selfish as to want Mom and Dad to stay together to make holidays and special events less awkward, even if Mom and Dad are obviously unhappy together. Kinda missing my point. Divorce doesn't mean she is going to be happy. She may very well end up a 40 something divorcee, tea-less, alone on Christmas.....while the exhubby is remarried , full of tea with the new wife. You just never know. I'm saying....as a divorcee....divorce isn't going to solve her problem. Life isn't going to be any easier or with more tea just because she isn't married to this man anymore. Edited November 13, 2009 by Wendy B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Wait... What? Never? Never a good option? I would probably be dead today if I didn't get a divorce. My son would be growing up in fear or maybe not growing up at all if my husband turned as violent with him as he was with me... Sometimes divorce is a great option. Sometimes divorce is great for kids. I'm sorry you married such a loser. BUT.... come on.... Divorce may be the better option than living in an abuse situation but divorce isn't great for kids. It sucks for kids no matter what. It really sucks for kids when the divorce is for selfish reason and when the parents decided to be lazy and take the "easy" way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Christmas.....while the exhubby is remarried , full of tea with the grandkids. :scared: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'm saying....as a divorcee....divorce isn't going to solve her problem. Life isn't going to be any easier or with more tea just because she isn't married to this man anymore. Hopefully the "tea" isn't being made with the grandkids. I suppose you meant that he was not only full of tea (from a consenting adult) but has the grandkids too?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 :scared: Oh my not quite what I meant. :lol: I fixed it. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hopefully the "tea" isn't being made with the grandkids. I suppose you meant that he was not only full of tea (from a consenting adult) but has the grandkids too?! Of course that is what I meant. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'm sorry you married such a loser. BUT.... come on.... Divorce may be the better option than living in an abuse situation but divorce isn't great for kids. It sucks for kids no matter what. It really sucks for kids when the divorce is for selfish reason and when the parents decided to be lazy and take the "easy" way out. Divorce was great for my kid. I will always live with the guilt of not doing it sooner. It was a sin (huge one) against my child to not leave sooner. Divorce harms kids when it is done lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Divorce isn't the answer. Divorce is never a good option for the children even if they are no longer in the home. Does she really want to have her adult children and grandchildren having to deal with which parent to visit on holidays for the rest. of . her . life? Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. I would suggest something like the Love Dare. That is bullpucky. Pure and simple. 1. I WISH my grandparents would have gotten divorced, it wouild have been better for the whole family. Even seeing them on either or holidays. Their relationship was toxic and they spread it around. 2. My MIL should have gotten a divorce. Now she's a stuck, broken woman who is on antidepressants because she's so close to suicide. And she CAN'T divorce him now. I won't go into why, but she can't. She'll have to wait until he dies, and hope that she can pick up the pieces of her life. Could the wife have done something way back when? Sure, but HE has just as much responsibility to say, "This pissed me off, we need counseling." Way back then. NOW he's unplugged from the marriage in word and deed and why NOT get a divorce? They have no actual marriage to speak of. And yeah, they might be married to losers as you are so quick to judge, but it's NOT really for you to judge, is it? Because when they got married they were full of hope and promises too, just like most couples. I really hope you never find yourself in such a situation so you don't have to hear from people what a loser you married, or your spouse doesn't have to tell people what a loser you were. Edited November 13, 2009 by justamouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 My marriage was so bad that I had to literally pretend he didn't exist most of the time. After a weekend with him the stress would often throw me into a full TMJ episode that would keep me down for days. Still I stayed and did my best to do MY Best even though so few of my needs were being met. I built my own life. I focused on the positives. I blocked him out in all ways I could. I managed. Gotta say though that when I received confirmation of an affair I was practically on my knees thanking God for the gift of Clarity and my way out. I've seen this over the years, reading your posts here, & there's never been an appropriate opportunity to say so & to tell you how I admire you for your faithfulness to your stbxh. Glad to finally have one. :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. While I realize that there is almost always room for improvement on both sides, this has been one of the single most painful responses anyone has ever given me to the very real problems I have faced in my marriage. It has become a catch-phrase, I'm afraid, & a cop-out answer from people who don't know what to say & can't imagine being in the situation presented. In my situation, my dh has low T levels. Low enough, at 25, that he had to have medication specially formulated. They doubled his dosage every month that he was on it & saw little improvement. I did not do anything to contribute to that problem, but the idea of low T was so far outside the range of my experience at the time, that I was surprised when dh suggested going to the dr. We could have lived *years* like that w/out any kind of solution. And I guarantee you, she already feels like she's to blame. Maybe I'm the exception, and every other woman w/ this problem has a cheating/gay dh that she's pushed to that point, but I doubt it. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt & help a person in pain to find the right path, that maybe all the tears make hard to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. Careful with this attitude... Thinking like that is what kept me in a dangerous situation for a very long time. As long as I thought there must be something I'm doing wrong, I stayed. I thought somehow this must be my fault. As long as that was in my head, I kept trying. It was stupid on my part. It was dangerous. Always telling a person that they must be contributing to the problem is not okay. It isn't always true. Sometimes a spouse has worked themselves so hard for many years and there is no change. Telling them it still must be their fault somehow may just be the final straw that crushes them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 And yeah, they might be married to losers as you are so quick to judge, but it's NOT really for you to judge, is it? Because when they got married they were full of hope and promises too, just like most couples. I really hope you never find yourself in such a situation so you don't have to hear from people what a loser you married, or your spouse doesn't have to tell people what a loser you were. I'm not quick to judge. I have been in that situation already . I've been divorced for 10 years. So I'm really trying to speak from the other side of divorce from what it has done to me and to my kids. I too was full of hope and promises but at 11 years of marriage too lazy to fix my part of the problems of our marriage. Oh believe me....he had his own fair share! But too often we want to fix others without acknowledging our own faults. Divorce didn't fix my problems. It just created new more complicated problems. Getting marriage to a different man didn't fix my problems. It just created new more complicated problems. I didn't get the marriage I wanted until I changed myself. My suggestion for the op was to encourage her friend to change herself and perhaps she can have the relationship she wants with her husband without the heartbreak a divorce will cause in all their lives. You do not have to agree with me. But please don't assume that I am speaking from some sort of holier-than-thou viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxMama Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Telling them it still must be their fault somehow may just be the final straw that crushes them. I didn't say fault. His actions are totally his own not her fault or responsibility. I am not at fault for the actions to others. I said her contributions to their problems. If she is planning on leaving in a year then she is contributing their problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 It's not about tea v. no tea. It's about whether or not he's willing to fulfill her needs, no matter what they are. He isn't willing to fulfill her emotional and physical needs. I would imagine it goes further and deeper than tea. IMO, that would be reason for a divorce. Indeed. I have been dealing with a similar situation for nearly 10 years. I have been very direct and vocal about it. I have been assured that a concerted effort would be made to be mindful of my needs. Over. and over. and over. I cannot begin to express how painful it is to know that your husband is aware of and understands your deep need for physical connection within your marriage and then chooses not to give you that. We are now seeing a counselor and working through it and the issues that have led to my husband's need to withhold things from me. Originally Posted by Wendy B. Instead of suggesting ideas for him to solve "his" problem, if it were my friend I would suggest ways for her to address her side of the problem. Marriage is a two-way street so there is something she is doing to contribute to the problem. There has been absolutely nothing I have done to contribute to my husband's problem. I am, as everyone else, less than perfect, but this is, in fact, his problem and, until we reached the breaking point, one aspect was his utter refusal to explore the problem at hand and the cause within himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I've seen this over the years, reading your posts here, & there's never been an appropriate opportunity to say so & to tell you how I admire you for your faithfulness to your stbxh. Glad to finally have one. :hurray: Thank you Aubrey. This means a lot to me. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Careful with this attitude... Thinking like that is what kept me in a dangerous situation for a very long time. As long as I thought there must be something I'm doing wrong, I stayed. I thought somehow this must be my fault. As long as that was in my head, I kept trying. It was stupid on my part. It was dangerous. Always telling a person that they must be contributing to the problem is not okay. It isn't always true. Sometimes a spouse has worked themselves so hard for many years and there is no change. Telling them it still must be their fault somehow may just be the final straw that crushes them. I absolutely must agree with this. The thing is most normal people have never dealt with this kind of situation so they can't understand. The crazymaking, the gaslighting, the rapid inexplicable mood changes. Sometimes there is just NOTHING you can do to make it better. And while I stayed I knew I was staying to honor a vow not in hopes of doing something myself to make the marriage better. What I did to endure was make my own life with my son, family, friends, congregation. There are many men who would not have allowed that though---I don't know what I would have done if he had tried to isolate me and keep me down. He really just left me alone---he showed his distain and lack of affection if I asked for anything....you know things like 'what time will you be home?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'm not quick to judge. I have been in that situation already . I've been divorced for 10 years. So I'm really trying to speak from the other side of divorce from what it has done to me and to my kids. I too was full of hope and promises but at 11 years of marriage too lazy to fix my part of the problems of our marriage. Oh believe me....he had his own fair share! But too often we want to fix others without acknowledging our own faults. Divorce didn't fix my problems. It just created new more complicated problems. Getting marriage to a different man didn't fix my problems. It just created new more complicated problems. I didn't get the marriage I wanted until I changed myself. My suggestion for the op was to encourage her friend to change herself and perhaps she can have the relationship she wants with her husband without the heartbreak a divorce will cause in all their lives. You do not have to agree with me. But please don't assume that I am speaking from some sort of holier-than-thou viewpoint. I'm sorry that you did so much to contribute to your marriage problems. I'm sorry that divorce made your life worse than when you were married. Don't project your history on other people. Some people are in a marriage with problems that will not get fixed no matter how hard they work on it. Sometimes a sweet, wonderful person who is doing all they can is married to a bad person. It happens. I was to blame for marrying my exh in the first place and for not leaving sooner. I was not to blame for not trying to fix myself. I was not to blame for not trying hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I absolutely must agree with this. The thing is most normal people have never dealt with this kind of situation so they can't understand. The crazymaking, the gaslighting, the rapid inexplicable mood changes. Sometimes there is just NOTHING you can do to make it better. And while I stayed I knew I was staying to honor a vow not in hopes of doing something myself to make the marriage better. What I did to endure was make my own life with my son, family, friends, congregation. There are many men who would not have allowed that though---I don't know what I would have done if he had tried to isolate me and keep me down. He really just left me alone---he showed his distain and lack of affection if I asked for anything....you know things like 'what time will you be home?' I'm so sorry you went through that. It's so good that you realize that you weren't to blame. It took me a loooong time to understand that! I'm glad you are free now. Isn't it a wonderful feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I didn't get the marriage I wanted until I changed myself. My suggestion for the op was to encourage her friend to change herself and perhaps she can have the relationship she wants with her husband without the heartbreak a divorce will cause in all their lives. You do not have to agree with me. But please don't assume that I am speaking from some sort of holier-than-thou viewpoint. I posted before I read this response and will say I am guilty of assuming just that! :tongue_smilie: Many marriages ARE like that, but many aren't. Many have the blame for problems laid squarely at the feet of ONE person, imperfect as the other person is too. I am glad you were able to change yourself and have a happy marriage now. And honestly, we can't possibly know if Heather's friend is in the type of marriage that is fixable or in the type like mine which was not. Mine I made bearable only by choosing to sacrifice my happiness in order to honor my vow. It was not a marriage that could have ever been fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 You might ask what were the vows she took before God? Was is it "in sickness and in health". I think what you are describing is a sickness. Maybe he can be helped, maybe not. Would she divorce him if he was paralyzed and couldn't move at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.