swellmomma Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 There has been a discussion on a local yahoo group about the merits of unschooling. Up until today it had been a very knowledgable discussion and while I would never feel comfortable unschooling it was interesting. Someone posted that she felt the number of technological distractions (tv, video games, internet etc) really impeded unschooling as a whole, because people tend to focus on those more rather than personal interaction. Even if the family itself limits these things, society as a whole doesn't so their isn't the adult mentors out their for kids to simply glean information from. All of this I agree with and thought it was a great conversation. Then someone pipes up saying that technology is not a distraction at all, and she will be offereing a session at the upcoming unschooling conference that will show how allowing your kids to play up to 16 hours per day of video games will give them everything they need to know to graduate high school in our province. My province is supposedly has one the more academically difficult programs in the country. If a child can truely learn everything they need to graduate by playing video games all day long every day I have huge concerns about where education in this province is headed. Of course her comments cemented even more in my head why I homeschool using TWTM. I am still sitting here shaking my head in disbelief that a) someone believes this and b) they plan to present it at the conference as a viable way for unschoolers to learn all they need for high school graduation. I need to pull out my WTM and reread it to cleanse my brain of this foolishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i.love.lucy Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 16 hours?!:001_huh: That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Here are some articles that might give you more of an insight into why radical unschoolers feel this way: http://sandradodd.com/videogames/ http://sandradodd.com/tv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 Oh it gets better. I replied to her the same way I did above, that if that was true I am concerned about education in this province and that I can not see children getting the skills and knowledge they will require for post secondary and the job force by playing video games for the first 18 years of their lives. HEre is her response: It's not skills and knowledge children need for the future. They can find any of that on the internet. It's initiative, creativity, determinism, analytical thinking, problem-solving, curiosity and people smarts they need for the unknown future. All those things our contemporary schooling kills. So apparently kids need NO skills or knowledge for the future as long as they can access the internet. I agree they need creativity, initiative, analytical thinking etc but by playing video games all day long they are supposed to develop these?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 What about the moral issue? Watching teenagers play video games where points are earned for morally reprehensible acts has instilled for me a deep contempt for these games in general. I'm not persuaded from the articles linked above to change my method of teaching to permit hours upon hours of video games, that's for certain. ( If challenge is what these adolescents are after, what about learning survival skills, or taking up a passion or hobby that benefits others as well as themselves? I guess I'm old-fashioned and appalled by the ego-centric trends of our modern society some days. ) Hmm.... Off to go read those dusty, stale, passive books of mine...;) Sorry to veer so far off topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 16 hours of video games a day? Wow! I do have a funny comment along those lines though! Some old homeschooling friends of ours that we knew years ago in Maryland were always walking that line of "do we do video games or not?". Their oldest son became involved in Civil Air Patrol and expressed a desire to become a pilot. He went to some...summer camp thing for aspiring pilots when he was a teen and he called his parents, just ecstatic..."Hey Mom & Dad! Guess what we're doing all day? ... Playing video games!" :lol: So I do see the good side of video games...but anything in moderation, you know? 16 hours of any one thing all day is just too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 What if someone wants to know how to create video games? Or how to cook? Or how to take care of a sick person? I am certain that valuable things CAN be learned from video games, and online, but I do not think anyone should be doing any one thing for 16 hours of the day. For one thing, it will lead to carpal tunnel syndrome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Around here, we have some unschooling moms who feel Club Penguin provides all the education needed for their children. I'm not a fan of unschooling at the best of times, but definitely think this level of nonjucation is neglectful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 HEre is her response: It's not skills and knowledge children need for the future. They can find any of that on the internet. It's initiative, creativity, determinism, analytical thinking, problem-solving, curiosity and people smarts they need for the unknown future. All those things our contemporary schooling kills. So apparently kids need NO skills or knowledge for the future as long as they can access the internet. I agree they need creativity, initiative, analytical thinking etc but by playing video games all day long they are supposed to develop these?? I kind of see what she means. it's not possible to teach our kids every single thing they need to know or to stuff their heads with knowledge. They have to want to know these things and know how to think and seek these things out. But I'm with you in not believing that video games are the way to develop thinking skills myself. And that there does need to be exposure to a wide variety of things and some (at least) basic skills in place in order to know how to find information and how to evaluate that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I would hope that poster was joking. Apparently, it would be a foolish hope. Some people also think that McDonald's happy meal (with fries for a veggie and coke for a beverage) is a balanced meal. (Some) people are idiots. It won't help to discuss it with them. Just don't read anymore of it; you have better things to do with your time. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Somebody posted this article awhile ago: http://coreknowledge.org/CK/about/articles/lookItUp.htm "You can always look it up" has always been a watchword of the progressive approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's obvious that merely being steeped in using the technology of the time does not (in and of itself) equip someone to develop technologies of the future. Those who develop video games have to have more forethought to develop the new platforms and make advances, coupled with technical know-how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's not skills and knowledge children need for the future. They can find any of that on the internet. It's initiative, creativity, determinism, analytical thinking, problem-solving, curiosity and people smarts they need for the unknown future. All those things our contemporary schooling kills. I don't know...I'm teaching my kids particular skills every day, and certain pieces of knowledge, but when we are done those things, my kids tackle other things with initiative, creativity, determin(ation - is that what she meant?), analytical thinking, problem solving, curiosity, and people smarts. Further, my kids might be able to find skills (?) on the internet, but it's the every day practice that cements them in their brains. THEN they can *use* the skills in their other projects. This, to me, is the freedom to be found in a skills-deliberate education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I would reckon this person is simply making an outrageous statement to generate a bit of interest in her topic. I have met lots of unschoolers both online and irl, but not one child who plays computer games 16 hours a day (or even half that much, come to that). Most unschoolers who have electronic entertainment for their children - and not all do, as you pointed out - tend to believe that it is not necessary to limit their use, because there are so many other interesting things going on in the family that a child would never choose to spend the whole day on the computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Somebody posted this article awhile ago: http://coreknowledge.org/CK/about/articles/lookItUp.htm Great read. Thanks for posting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 What about practical life skills, social skills, parenting skills, conversation, experience, philosophy of life? What will you talk about when all you know is video games? What about richness and depth of thought? Can that really be accomplished with video games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I know that Sandra Dodd's site has articles and links regarding how unschoolers view video games. There are probably articles out there if you google video games and unschoolers. I remember a conversation on an unschooling loop where a mom defended her 18 yr. old son's job. That job was playing WOW all day long. Still scratching my head over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jessica* Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Can you imagine the headaches and strain on their eyes? My head hurts just thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My two nephews are not unschoolers but the senior in high school averages probably 9 hours a day after school playing video games, and the 21 year old (dropped out of college) averages more than that per day, plus they both play all day on weekends. They are seriously overweight, cannot carry on a conversation with adults, do not interact with their peers, do not take care of their things or their home, do not even bathe without being made to. They even throw tantrums of sorts when made to get off the internet. I haven't seen anything positive there. A young homeschooler friend of ours will play to excess whenever he can. All he wants to do when we are around him is play video games. If he isn't playing a game, he is reenacting killing someone by playacting. It seems there is little else he wants to talk about. I would need a lot of convincing to see the merits of such excessive video game playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I know that Sandra Dodd's site has articles and links regarding how unschoolers view video games. There are probably articles out there if you google video games and unschoolers. I remember a conversation on an unschooling loop where a mom defended her 18 yr. old son's job. That job was playing WOW all day long. Still scratching my head over that. Well you might stop scratching your head if you knew how much money he was making. Personally I think it's cheating and they shouldn't be allowed to sell profiles but yeah there's some money in it ifyou are really good and really fast about. Not enough money to do it in a time frame that allows a normal life and to pay the bills of your own place unless you are freaky awesome at it. And no I don't play but in my past life and neither does anyone in my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm going to say this as nicely as possible. There are some unschoolers that truly are trying to teach their children outside of the box. There are also some that call themselves unschoolers who are trying to not have to teach their kids. I lived across the street from an "unschooler" who progressively just quit doing anything with her children and had started spouting how the playstation was part of their "curriculum". I honestly felt bad for those children who have done no "real" school this year at all. By real, I mean any guided instruction of any sort from their parent. I don't think you need worksheets and textbooks for guided instruction. All you need is an attentive, active parent. There is nothing attentive or active about a video game no matter how you dress it up and what words you use. I also think there are a lot of people who are doing nothing with their children and calling it unschooling and giving the method of teaching a very bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 :iagree:I completely agree. I have seen this from others, but was aghast to see this posted by an "expert", who has published a bestselling parenting book, and as scheduled to be a speaker at the uncoming unschooling conference to be saying that this constitutes a full K-12 education. It's not that I am against unschooling, or even video games as a whole. I am shocked though that they want someone who truely believes 16 hours of video games=good education to be telling other unschoolers(many I am sure are brand new to homeschooling or unschooling) that this is a quality education. Turns out I am not the only one on that list that thinks this way as it turns out now that I had replied to her. (on this list typically the unschoolers do all the talking and those of us more structured just delete the messages, but I could not do so this time). SHe lost all credibility to me though with those comments and I will not even be looking at her parenting book or any others she has in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 A young homeschooler friend of ours will play to excess whenever he can. All he wants to do when we are around him is play video games. If he isn't playing a game, he is reenacting killing someone by playacting. It seems there is little else he wants to talk about. This is my son and he only plays 30-90 minutes per WEEK. I can not imagine what he would be like letting him play for 16 hours per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I would reckon this person is simply making an outrageous statement to generate a bit of interest in her topic. I have met lots of unschoolers both online and irl, but not one child who plays computer games 16 hours a day (or even half that much, come to that). Most unschoolers who have electronic entertainment for their children - and not all do, as you pointed out - tend to believe that it is not necessary to limit their use, because there are so many other interesting things going on in the family that a child would never choose to spend the whole day on the computer. I don't think it's a stretch. I am on an unschooling yahoo group. It's mostly radical. There was a mom who complained that she wanted some time to herself and time to spend with her non-video gaming kids. SHe had no time because she was playing games with her gaming kid from sun up to sun down. She and the other kids were just wanting to get out and walk, etc. She was lambasted for not giving her all to this one kid (apparantly video gaming play nonschoolers trump non-video game unschoolers for parental time???). She was told that she get take a laptop outside so the others could play outside and she could still play with her kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Well you might stop scratching your head if you knew how much money he was making. Personally I think it's cheating and they shouldn't be allowed to sell profiles but yeah there's some money in it ifyou are really good and really fast about. Not enough money to do it in a time frame that allows a normal life and to pay the bills of your own place unless you are freaky awesome at it. And no I don't play but in my past life and neither does anyone in my house. I'm totally clueless. When the mom said it was her son's job, I thought she was sort of joking. They seriously make money? I'm dumbfounded. My dd's boyfriend played. He dropped out of college and cut back to 10 hrs a week work so he could play more. My dd dropped him. There is sure a lot I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Wow! Perhaps The unschooling folks I know aren't real hardcore unschoolers? But the scenario you mentioned sounds very strange to me. Why on earth would a whole family be expected to revolve around the one child? Unschooling as Sandra Dodd and co describe it is far more about everyone's needs being equal, not indulging one child at the expense of another:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Wow! Perhaps The unschooling folks I know aren't real hardcore unschoolers? But the scenario you mentioned sounds very strange to me. Why on earth would a whole family be expected to revolve around the one child? Unschooling as Sandra Dodd and co describe it is far more about everyone's needs being equal, not indulging one child at the expense of another:confused: I don't know. I used to read so much from Sandra Dodd on her yahoo groups and I did feel like her kind of unschooling was not about everyone's needs being equal. Mom was supposed to be open to anything the kids wanted to do at all times, no matter how much it inconvenienced her, or how much extra work it created for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Yes indeed there are many jobs that require pro gamers. Testers and creators for just two obvious examples. However extremely few are profitable enough to allow a person to support themselves. This young man or your dd's xbf might be one of those few. I doubt it. But it is possible. The dream of being one of those few is the excuse for the addiction to some. Kind of like a gambler knowing that one day he could be a world reknown player. Eta: just realized I didn't finish a thought process in my pp. In my past life I was a programmer and loved making that stuff in my spare time. Oh yeah. Back when I had spare time, no mastisis, and could finish a thought before a kid needed my attention. ;) Edited November 2, 2009 by Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) I don't know. I used to read so much from Sandra Dodd on her yahoo groups and I did feel like her kind of unschooling was not about everyone's needs being equal. Mom was supposed to be open to anything the kids wanted to do at all times, no matter how much it inconvenienced her, or how much extra work it created for her. Yes this is the vibe I get from her yahoo groups. Also the vibe that if children have conflicting needs, video gaming children out rank non-video gaming children. We all love video games here. My son would play them all day if allowed and he probably plays more than he should on some days. However, it is not somethingto brag about. NOt everyone is going to be a professional gamer. My husband does it for extra money but it's not steady enough to pay the bills kwim. Also, I know many marriages that are breaking up over the husband's addiction to video games. It's the new porn. Edited November 2, 2009 by AuntPol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy at Home Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm going to say this as nicely as possible. There are some unschoolers that truly are trying to teach their children outside of the box. There are also some that call themselves unschoolers who are trying to not have to teach their kids.I lived across the street from an "unschooler" who progressively just quit doing anything with her children and had started spouting how the playstation was part of their "curriculum". I honestly felt bad for those children who have done no "real" school this year at all. By real, I mean any guided instruction of any sort from their parent. I don't think you need worksheets and textbooks for guided instruction. All you need is an attentive, active parent. There is nothing attentive or active about a video game no matter how you dress it up and what words you use. I also think there are a lot of people who are doing nothing with their children and calling it unschooling and giving the method of teaching a very bad name. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Yes this is the vibe I get from her yahoo groups. Also the vibe that if children have conflicting needs, video gaming children out rank non-video gaming children. I wonder whether this impression is given simply because screen stuff generates more discussion? I suspect it is only discussed more because it's what parents are concerned about. Probably not many parents write in saying "but my child will just study Shakespeare all day! Surely you don't propose I let her do that?" :D I could be wrong (I sometimes am ;)) but my understanding of unschooling is that you don't put unreasonable or artificial limits on the children. Children with no limits whatsoever aren't unschooled, they are neglected. Unschoolers can do what they want but it has to stay within real life limits (eg they can't drive a car), social limits (can't run around the mall naked), respect (eg if a child wants to stay up half the night, she would not be allowed to do this if she's going to keep everyone else awake) and mutuality limits (eg mom doesn't have to play computer games with child A all day, because she wants/needs to spend time with children B through D, time with hubby, time on other duties and time to herself). Feeling obliged to spend the whole day playing a game that doesn't interest you sounds more like a dictatorship with the child in charge than an unschooling family. Edited November 2, 2009 by Hotdrink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Here's my take (from a mom who is not against video games but against excess almost anything - except books ;)). From my parenting past, I have spent a great deal of time researching, observing, commenting on and evaluating parenting and educational paradigms. There are those who believe that *unschooling* is an educational philosophy. There are those who believe it's a lifestyle that is embraced beyond education. There are those who, coming from a *parenting* philosophy, believe in non coercion as a lifestyle - educational and otherwise. Most posters here would call that unparenting. There are healthy and unhealthy families representing each (although I disagree fundamentally with non coercive parenting or education). What you've seen and read with regard to radical unschooling is a higher percentage of non coercive, counter cultural parents who not only don't see value in imposing structure on their kids for academics but see HARM. Many of those parents also see imposing OUR will over the CHILD'S will as HARM. Non coercive unschoolers are a subset of unschoolers just as unschoolers are a subset of homeschoolers. What I observe is that each group removed from the norm (the curve of normal distribution as it were) the greater the percentage of parenting that is not healthy. Homebirthers >>>>>>>> radical unassisted birthers who don't get any prenatal care. Homeschoolers >>>>>>>>>>>>radical unschoolers. 12 Step recovery people >>>>>>>>>>> people whose entire life is consumed (pun intended) by recovery people, talk, activities. Christian >>>>>>>>>> super conservative Christian involved in cult. Moms who nurse beyond cultural norms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>moms who nurse for many years and create you tube videos of boob obsessed school aged children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I could be wrong (I sometimes am ;)) but my understanding of unschooling is that you don't put unreasonable or artificial limits on the children. Children with no limits whatsoever aren't unschooled, they are neglected. . That's true for unschoolers who believe in unschooling as strictuly an educational philosophy. There are many who believe in non coercion as a parenting philosophy and therefore not only their educational setting but their lives reflect "mutuality" and "non coercion". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 OK, I can see the distinction there. But getting back to the OT, I don't think 16 hours of ANY one activity can possibly be a good thing to do on a regular basis, regardless of the philosophy that underpins the parental consent / encouragement. Even if 16 hours per day of computer games is not harmful (and I suspect it is), it is nevertheless a symptom of an unhealthy lifestyle that the person doesn't seem to want to do anything else. Most kids and teens need 8-10 hours of sleep, plus another hour or two for basic self care such as eating and personal hygiene. Even if this could be fitted in around the gaming, it would still mean the person is missing out on physical exercise, face to face human interaction, learning practical skills and a whole raft of other stuff that is desirable for a normal balanced life. What would motivate somebody to forgo all these things? I admit I haven't got any research findings in front of me, but I would hazard a guess that this kind of person would be depressed, obsessed or have some kind of underlying problem. In other words, if my child wanted to behave this way, I would not only be concerned about the possible results, but I'd also be concerned about the causes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 OK, I can see the distinction there. But getting back to the OT, I don't think 16 hours of ANY one activity can possibly be a good thing to do on a regular basis, regardless of the philosophy that underpins the parental consent / encouragement. Even if 16 hours per day of computer games is not harmful (and I suspect it is), it is nevertheless a symptom of an unhealthy lifestyle that the person doesn't seem to want to do anything else. Most kids and teens need 8-10 hours of sleep, plus another hour or two for basic self care such as eating and personal hygiene. Even if this could be fitted in around the gaming, it would still mean the person is missing out on physical exercise, face to face human interaction, learning practical skills and a whole raft of other stuff that is desirable for a normal balanced life. What would motivate somebody to forgo all these things? I admit I haven't got any research findings in front of me, but I would hazard a guess that this kind of person would be depressed, obsessed or have some kind of underlying problem. In other words, if my child wanted to behave this way, I would not only be concerned about the possible results, but I'd also be concerned about the causes. I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) There is nothing attentive or active about a video game no matter how you dress it up and what words you use. I also think there are a lot of people who are doing nothing with their children and calling it unschooling and giving the method of teaching a very bad name. I don't really agree that there is nothing active about a video game, considering there are those that require physical exertion (e.g. Dance Dance Revolution, Wii sports games, etc), and are used for things like pilot / astronaut / military training, and physical / visual / psychological therapy. However, that is not the same as a full academic education, and I think there is something about the internet that makes it easy for a very very small minority of people to congregate and give the impression that there is a large and vibrant movement for all sorts of causes, whether benign, healthy, or dangerous. Edited November 2, 2009 by stripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 So apparently kids need NO skills or knowledge for the future as long as they can access the internet. That's actually the plot of a very scary dystopia novel by M.T. Anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ...allowing your kids to play up to 16 hours per day of video games will give them everything they need to know to graduate high school... :svengo::eek::blink: :::quickly covering computer so boys do not see this::: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saille Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't know. I used to read so much from Sandra Dodd on her yahoo groups and I did feel like her kind of unschooling was not about everyone's needs being equal. Mom was supposed to be open to anything the kids wanted to do at all times, no matter how much it inconvenienced her, or how much extra work it created for her. I tend to have that same reaction to the TCS/NCP method of parenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is another problem. "TV and video games" is so generic. Sure, watching nature documentaries could teach you a lot about nature, and so on. But what if someone is just watching Judge Judy, Dr Phil, and the Home Shopping Network, well, not so much. All TV shows are not created equal. The same applies to magazines, books, .... the list goes on. Also, does watching cooking and crafting shows make you a great cook? They might give you some good ideas, but you have to actually COOK something to be a cook. My concern about plugging in to commercial media as one's primary existence is that it becomes difficult to NOT be soaked in various prejudices and common beliefs, e.g. eager and willing busty women in video games. Also, how many obese characters are there, really? and how positively are they depicted in cartoons? What outlets are there for detailed, slow conflict resolution when confronting one's "enemy"? Does one necessarily learn good behavior from Beavis & Butthead? Even PBS kids' shows can lead to some anti-social behavior due to the emphasis on resolving conflict, which is mostly 20 min of conflict with 2 min resolution (see NurtureShock). Garbage in, garbage out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't really agree that there is nothing active about a video game, considering there are those that require physical exertion (e.g. Dance Dance Revolution, Wii sports games, etc), and are used for things like pilot / astronaut / military training, and physical / visual / psychological therapy. However, that is not the same as a full academic education, and I think there is something about the internet that makes it easy for a very very small minority of people to congregate and give the impression that there is a large and vibrant movement for all sorts of causes, whether benign, healthy, or dangerous. It is a little out of context. What I wrote was, "I mean any guided instruction of any sort from their parent. I don't think you need worksheets and textbooks for guided instruction. All you need is an attentive, active parent. There is nothing attentive or active about a video game no matter how you dress it up and what words you use." I don't think video games are attentive and active forms of guided instruction by a parent or teacher for education. There are definitely active video games out there and video games that simulate pilots and military training. However, there isn't a video game out there that can take the place of an attentive, active parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 You mean my kids won't get into Law at university just by watching Judge Judy?! Dangnabbit, I might have to add some more television programs to the curriculum! :lol: But really you can't go past Star Trek for a moral education. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda TX Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I may be dense.... and this is OT - what is "TCS/NCP method of parenting" Thanks, Melinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I may be dense.... and this is OT - what is "TCS/NCP method of parenting" Thanks, Melinda Taking Children Seriously Non-Coercive Parenting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Wow. I am a former unschooler and a current relaxed/child-directed/eclectic schooler and I would never, ever, EVER let the girls play video games all day. Or dh, for that matter :lol:. They can learn those skills in other, less trance-inducing, mind-numbing ways. IMO. They can learn information AND problem-solving skills together. (The Sponge learned to read at 3 with unschooling. But with reading books, not with watching TV or playing video games....) Edited November 2, 2009 by LittleIzumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Oh it gets better. I replied to her the same way I did above, that if that was true I am concerned about education in this province and that I can not see children getting the skills and knowledge they will require for post secondary and the job force by playing video games for the first 18 years of their lives. HEre is her response: It's not skills and knowledge children need for the future. They can find any of that on the internet. It's initiative, creativity, determinism, analytical thinking, problem-solving, curiosity and people smarts they need for the unknown future. All those things our contemporary schooling kills. So apparently kids need NO skills or knowledge for the future as long as they can access the internet. I agree they need creativity, initiative, analytical thinking etc but by playing video games all day long they are supposed to develop these?? I suspect that developing "people smarts" generally requires interaction with PEOPLE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I suspect that developing "people smarts" generally requires interaction with PEOPLE. Maybe the games where you connect online and do co-op play? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 That's true for unschoolers who believe in unschooling as strictuly an educational philosophy. There are many who believe in non coercion as a parenting philosophy and therefore not only their educational setting but their lives reflect "mutuality" and "non coercion". Right. Radical unschooling goes beyond education and encompasses parenting as well. Radical unschoolers do not set limits or rules such as bed times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I tend to have that same reaction to the TCS/NCP method of parenting. I'm sure I should know this, but what is TCS/NCP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I may be dense.... and this is OT - what is "TCS/NCP method of parenting" Thanks, Melinda Taking Children SeriouslyNon-Coercive Parenting Oops. I should have read ahead further. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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