Lovedtodeath Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Also, I feel that if I were to stop everything in my life that had pagan roots, I'd be in serious trouble. I have struggled with this as well. Weddings have a lot of pagan roots. It took a lot of work to get me to decide not to celebrate birthdays. I have often had to revisit the topic and pray for guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Kathleen, this is kind of a hijack, but does all the same logic apply to celebrating Easter? In our church, Easter Sunday is the summit of of the Christian year, and we celebrate Christ's resurrection as giving meaning to the whole church year. Would this be different in your church?Here is a good thread with various viewpoints: What is the Biblical meaning of Easter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i.love.lucy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 One has to wonder, if you do celebrate Christmas, why you open up a thread and reply to a question directed towards those who don't. Perhaps for the same reason as the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. Apology accepted. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Perhaps for the same reason as the OP. Yes. Good point. To educate one's self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. How very gracious of you to apologize.:001_cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. You are very kind and considerate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. Hi Amy, I'm just getting home from evening service so that's why I am just responding. You are very kind and gracious to apologize and of course, I forgive you. Please forgive me for responding in an emotional way and not just overlooking your post. And, as SolaMichella pointed out, perhaps you were just interested in what those replying would have to say. There's certainly nothing wrong with that.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Kathleen, this is kind of a hijack, but does all the same logic apply to celebrating Easter? In our church, Easter Sunday is the summit of of the Christian year, and we celebrate Christ's resurrection as giving meaning to the whole church year. Would this be different in your church? Caitilin, Yes, the same logic applies and our church does not celebrate Easter. The word Easter is actually derived from the name of a pagan god of fertility which is where the bunnies and eggs as symbols come from. I'm sure a google search would lead you to more specifics. We celebrate Christ's resurrection daily. Of course, we do not celebrate it as a holiday every day, we just rejoice that Christ arose and conquered death every day. The only event we celebrate is the Lord's Supper per the Lord's instruction in I Corinthians 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Also, I feel that if I were to stop everything in my life that had pagan roots, I'd be in serious trouble. Well, I'm sure we'd all be, lol. I don't suppose it can be helped in many practical matters. The thing that is important about the Christmas issue and what makes it different than the names of the days of the week or the months of the year, etc. is that it is about worshiping God. God made it abundantly clear to the Israelites that He was not pleased when they mixed their worship with pagan practices. This is really the crux of it for me. As I stated in another post, the most important thing to consider in all of this is not how I want to worship God, but how does God want me to worship Him. He has revealed that in His word. Christians should be very careful not to be more persuaded by men's traditions (especially when they have pagan roots) than by God's word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Well, I'm sure we'd all be, lol. I don't suppose it can be helped in many practical matters. The thing that is important about the Christmas issue and what makes it different than the names of the days of the week or the months of the year, etc. is that it is about worshiping God. God made it abundantly clear to the Israelites that He was not pleased when they mixed their worship with pagan practices. This is really the crux of it for me. As I stated in another post, the most important thing to consider in all of this is not how I want to worship God, but how does God want me to worship Him. He has revealed that in His word. Christians should be very careful not to be more persuaded by men's traditions (especially when they have pagan roots) than by God's word. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thank you everyone such enlightening sharing. I am amazed that such a potentially difficult and emotional topic has been handled so beautifully and with such grace on all fronts. I doubt I've ever been to a message board whose members are so respectful of each other. I've been blessed to read all the points of view and their reasoning. It's a pleasure to hear a well thought argument given and received. I've learned so much reading this thread and have much to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiana Daniels Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 :iagree: And I love topics that encourage me to dig deeper into Scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) I'm a Christian and I do not celebrate Christmas. I hesitate to get into the whys and wherefores about it on this board, though, because there are many who would enter the conversation with all the reasons why my reasons are no longer valid or aren't relevant or whatever. I might have been one of them 25 years ago (I'm 50, btw) and there had been an internet available, lol. Christmas is a VERY emotional issue. The traditions associated with it are entrenched in many hearts and minds. That makes it a very difficult topic to discuss, especially as the holiday approaches. Whether or not to celebrate it is an extremely personal decision. I came to my decision after much prayer and Bible study and after many years of pondering. At the time I came to my decision, I had already begun having questions and concerns about it. If you had come to me five years earlier and suggested I not keep Christmas I would have thought you were crazy. I did a google search for "why Christians don't celebrate Christmas" and came up with many websites. Here is one that does a pretty good job explaining my viewpoint. I can't vouch for the rest of the website as I just read this one article. http://www.ucg.org/issues/gn61/christmas.htm Also, just because I do not choose to celebrate it myself does not mean that I think less of those who do. I read a tract by C.H. Spurgeon once about why Christians should not celebrate Christmas, but I've also read sermons where he said he was glad that families had the day to spend together and relax. Many folks are more tolerant of listening to a gospel message at Christmastime so presenting a clear salvation message in a letter or card could also be a good idea. Even though our family chooses not to have a tree, presents, decorations, etc. we do give gifts to family members who kindly give us gifts and we do get together with family on that day. If someone wishes me a "Merry Christmas" I just say, "Thanks!" and don't make an issue out of it. Thank you for posting this -- I enjoyed reading a different POV. I'd love to do this. But our time is locked in with MIL -- she rules the roost and we travel many many miles to do Christmas. She has only one grandchild, one son (& myself) and her daughter who has no family. I cringe when I see how much PRESENTS she goes out to get for us. Every year, it is the same conversation (said gently) -- "Mom, we're fine. You don't need to get us anything this year." And the crazy thing is... Christmas is stressful for her and ends up being pure materialism with STUFF. Nothing I can do about it. No pondering over the reason for the season. I'd love to take what she spends on my family and go give it to a soup kitchen or orphanage. Better yet, get all of us in a car and go serve on that day... we open gifts, eat tons of food, and then watch sports for 3-4 days non-stop. I don't like how our family celebrates this holiday. But not sure what to do with MIL? ------------------------------- EDITED: P.S. My husband hates it when I collect Santas and Christmas Trees... he calls the trees "Astoreth" Poles. Apparently, in Jeremiah's time the "heathen" would cut down trees, carve or decorate them in the form of a god or goddess, and overlay it with precious metals.(Jeremiah 10:2-4) Me thinketh I may need to get rid of them... hubby would love that! *grin* Edited October 12, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Kathleen, I want to be like you when I grow up. :001_smile: Dh and I are Christians, and we don't 'celebrate' Christmas. I don't even really know what that means anymore. No, we don't teach the children that Christmas is Jesus' birthday, and we don't do the Santa thing. We don't have a tree. We do get the children each a few small gifts, and we do exchange gifts with extended family. I'd rather if we didn't do any of it. But dh wants us to do some for social reasons, so we do. Dh has two older children from a previous relationship, and things would be tense and awkward for them if we got them nothing for Christmas. And dh does not want to stop going to his parents for the traditional Christmas thing, which includes gifts. I guess, for dh and I, we just don't see a point in celebrating Christmas. It's NOT Jesus' birthday, as we all know. And good grief, like our kids really NEED more stuff. The whole holiday is so 'me' centered, here in the US at least, that it's crazy. Dh and I don't want to teach our children that we should celebrate the birth of our saviour by being greedy. In fact, there's really no need to celebrate the birth of Christ at all. It just all seems so pointless to us to spend all this time and effort and money on unnecessary things when there are believers all over the world who are going without food and clothes. In fact, last year, for our 'Christmas card', this is what we sent out. It is hard when you have to deal with other family members who would be put off by your not celebrating. We still exchange gifts with family members who do celebrate Christmas. I'm hoping the economy will be a great excuse to tone them down this year. My pastor always says that if you are not in the habit of giving gifts all year, you had better be generous at Christmas or else your friends/relatives will think the only reason you don't celebrate it is that you're just too cheap to buy them anything. Great card, btw. It's so true. There are so many people who could use the money we Americans spend (me included), not just on Christmas, but on lots of other unnecessary stuff as well, for their daily subsistence. Good reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Note: I thought I saw mention but I can't find it again. It isn't that you must get rid of EVERYTHING used or created by those who didn't exercise faith in the Creator. But you wouldn't want to use things they used in your worship. Gotta give props to Pamela for clarifying this... and I apologize if this hijacks the thread. But the OP mentioned if she should give up everything (which is what Pamela is addressing) that has Pagan roots? They are deeply entrenched in many things like the days of the week and weddings, it would be impossible to cut one off from. One example I can think of is our country's founders being Freemasons. Technically, many were Christians but also brothers in a secret society that worshiped a False God. Do we dump our country's traditions of the Pledge of Allegience, visiting the Washington Monument, the 4th of July, and so on -- that have roots in Masonry? That is a sticky wicket. Those who are Jehovah's Witness do not do the pledge. However, as others have shared -- when it comes to matters of personal worship, you do need to make a choice. And for those posting what personal decisions they have made... we shouldn't bash them and call them "legalistic". (For some reason, I keep thinking of the Veggie Tale's DVD of Rack, Shack, & Benny not bowing to the 90 ft. tall chocolate bunny god. LOL) Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego in the book of Daniel stood for what was the right thing. They were not legalistic. Edited October 12, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I owe you all an apology. I made some offensive statements in my post in this thread and I should not have done so. I wasn't clear, my intent and my heart on this did not come across as expressed at all, and I am truly sorry. Kathleen is right when she pointed out that as a Christian who does celebrate Christmas, why did I feel the need to open, read and post? I don't know. I am very sorry I was hurtful. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) If you don't mind someone who isn't religious popping in. Christmas for us is a wonderful family holiday. One filled with good spirits, good music, good food. The wonderful smell of a Christmas tree, and the joy of children and their anticipation of "Santa". But, for me, it is also a time I reflect on the positive (and radically challenging) message of Jesus. I can't read the Sermon on the Mount and the synoptic Gospels without thinking of how this teacher profoundly affected our world. And I, a non-religious fellow, take my family to midnight Mass at the beautiful Episcopal Church around the corner from our home on Christmas Eve, and listen in reverence to the small choir and the pipe-organist playing traditional sacred music. And it moves me. I celebrate the day. It may not be the "right" day. I don't particularly care. And while I can't pretend to believe things that I simply do not, I most certainly do believe this world would be a far better place if we all learned to love our neighbors as ourselves. Knowing that is not always easy. The moral challenge is a good one. And on Christmas I honor that, and hope for goodwill among all people, and pray for peace on earth. Bill Edited October 12, 2009 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) The moral challenge is a good one. And on Christmas I honor that, and hope for goodwill among all people, and pray for peace on earth. Bill Oh, Bill... once again, you bring up a very good point! :lurk5: I like how we are able to share different views with a respectful tone on this topic! Point well taken. Edited October 12, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumping In Puddles Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 As a Catholic, I celebrate Christmas. Something that I don't understand is "The War on Christmas". Christmas is not about saying "Merry Christmas", it is not about the Christmas Cards, it is not about whether you are greeted at Walmart with "Happy Holidays". It seems to me the things that are under attack are the things that Christmas is NOT about. :confused: I do think that Christmas day is a celebration of Jesus. We go to mass and we celebrate. It feels like a religious day to me. It feels holy. We also get together with family and eat and drink and exchange presents. We also have a tree and decorations and get presents from Santa. That is not taking away from the holy day but adding to the festive spirit. I hate the total commercialization, though. I wish it were more subtle and old fashioned. I generally dislike the cheap gifts that vendors are hawking and I try to be very thoughtful in my gift giving instead of just picking something up to check off a name on a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 We are attempting to tone down some of our Christmas "practices" this year that are so focused on gift giving by family members to our kids. There is a tension between being thankful for doting grandparents who really want to lavish our kids with gifts and wanting to keep the holiday focused on Christ. I feel like He gets lost in the mound of torn wrapping paper, excess food, etc. even when we do other things with our dc alone to celebrate His birth. This year I've asked the family to not give any gifts to the dc. Gasp. Stocking stuffers are still allowed....:glare:. Within minutes my MIL had come up with an alternative plan which I swiftly thwarted :D. Gotta start somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 One has to wonder, if you do celebrate Christmas, why you open up a thread and reply to a question directed towards those who don't. I think the important thing to search out and ponder is how does God want us to worship Him, not how do we want to worship God. Like I said in my first reply to the OP, Christmas is a very emotionally charged issue, but emotions should not play a part in the choices one makes regarding worshiping God. Scripture and scripture alone should guide how one worships. FTR, I do not think the choice to celebrate or not is a condition for salvation. What do you mean by "conforming to some other religion's ideas"? What other religion? Also, the accusation of legalism and calling folks who are sincerely trying to live by the Bible "false teachers" is very harsh. Legalism actually refers to trying to earn one's salvation through good works or by following the law. I certainly do not think I can earn my salvation by any means. God extended His mercy and grace to me through His dear Son, Jesus Christ, who paid for my sins and saved me from eternity in hell through His shed blood. Not celebrating Christmas, and every other "good work" I do is simply obedience to His word which is motivated by my love for Him. Why do you feel the need to defend why you do celebrate Christmas in this thread? I think the OP was just asking for reasons why some Christians do not. No one has attacked those who do. This reminds me of the reaction I get when I tell some folks I homeschool. Their first reaction is defend why they do not.:confused: Because it's a forum. I think it is an unkindness to question people as to WHY they would respond in a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Just thinking here - but we've all noted that Christmas is an invention of the church. It isn't a biblical celebration (as in-it isn't mentioned as a required time of celebration). So, I'm thinking, why not just take it and celebrate it as a cultural celebration rather than a religious celebration. Enjoy the family time, sharing, give thanks to God for the wonderful things in your life and the blessings we all enjoy. It seems so forced to MAKE it a celebration of Jesus' birth when we have noted and recognized the origins of the celebration. This is a new thinking for me - just pondering as I go. I love Christmas. I love Away in a Manger and celebrating the birth of our Lord. But I hate that there has to be the pull between the cultural celebration and the religious aspect of it. It feels like you can't do justice to either sometimes. I spend every day all year celebrating Jesus. I don't know that having a special day that someone here decided was for celebrating his birth makes it have a greater impact on my life. Just thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 My eldest brother and his family decided about 20 years ago that they were no longer going to celebrate Christmas. I understand their reasoning (the same reasons as given by PPs). I respect their reasoning even though I do not come to the same conclusion. But it does provide some minor difficulties along the line of family equity. If Grandma (my mom) sends Christmas gifts to all the grandkids, is it wrong for her to not send some to these grandkids - in the interest of equity? My mom gets tied up in knots about this because she tries so hard not to have any favoritism and this creates a difference between the families. She has "solved" it by sending a general gift box to the family at the end of November. The gifts are not wrapped in Christmas paper. But of course the family knows that the gifts are really her Christmas gifts given at a different time. They accept them graciously but I'm not sure if they feel like it is a compromise of their principles. I send out a family letter each Christmas in my Christmas card. I send just the letter to this family in January as sort of a New Year's recap of last year. (But it really is my Christmas letter). I do it because I want my brother and his family to be equally informed/connected to our family. So - those who don't celebrate Christmas. Do you feel like these practices are ignoring their belief? Are they compromises? Or are they ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 One has to wonder, if you do celebrate Christmas, why you open up a thread and reply to a question directed towards those who don't. I think the important thing to search out and ponder is how does God want us to worship Him, not how do we want to worship God. Like I said in my first reply to the OP, Christmas is a very emotionally charged issue, but emotions should not play a part in the choices one makes regarding worshiping God. Scripture and scripture alone should guide how one worships. FTR, I do not think the choice to celebrate or not is a condition for salvation. What do you mean by "conforming to some other religion's ideas"? What other religion? Also, the accusation of legalism and calling folks who are sincerely trying to live by the Bible "false teachers" is very harsh. Legalism actually refers to trying to earn one's salvation through good works or by following the law. I certainly do not think I can earn my salvation by any means. God extended His mercy and grace to me through His dear Son, Jesus Christ, who paid for my sins and saved me from eternity in hell through His shed blood. Not celebrating Christmas, and every other "good work" I do is simply obedience to His word which is motivated by my love for Him. Why do you feel the need to defend why you do celebrate Christmas in this thread? I think the OP was just asking for reasons why some Christians do not. No one has attacked those who do. This reminds me of the reaction I get when I tell some folks I homeschool. Their first reaction is defend why they do not.:confused: I think you covered the "why" very well in your last paragraph. I opened this thread and read it, because I've always wondered why someone would not celebrate Christmas. However, with every response I feel a little nagging guilt that, perhaps, my celebration is tainted, because there is a lot of it that IS secular and that guilt makes me want to respond with a million reasons why it is okay to 'do' Christmas. Lol, instead I'm responding to you, just to say, I think you pretty well covered why some would respond, even though they weren't asked and their responses may seem more like reasons to have never asked or answered in the first place :p In my defence, because I do feel like I have to defend celebrating Christmas... I have always found it a beautiful time of year. I know it's rooted in paganism, but I'm not celebrating nature. I'm focusing on the miracle of Jesus' conception and birth. My favorite parts, religiously, are putting together the manger and singing the carols. Otherwise, I get with my family and we bake and we chat and really, it's like we're all kids again, only now we get to play alongside our dcs :) The warmth and sweetness of the season make it so that I couldn't imagine giving it up, nor could I imagine God finding fault in something that brings us so close together. Even if we're not focusing on the death and ressurrection for a month, we are focusing on the the miracles of God and Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Christmas is my favorite holiday and I am a Christian. However, I do not view it as a religious holiday (Christian or Pagan) but a secular festival that has a few religious elements. To me Christmas is a time of love and giving and joy, cookies, Santa, snow, family, and trees and glittery decorations to perk up an otherwise drab winter. However to me, it's not really about Jesus though the spirit of Christmas reminds me of him and I don't omit Jesus from celebrations as he is part of all life's celebrations and joys, as well life's pitfalls and everything in between. Jesus is something to be celebrated everyday because he is perfect love and joy and peace and Christmas is a pale fascimile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Because it's a forum. I think it is an unkindness to question people as to WHY they would respond in a thread. Which is why I acknowledged that in a later post.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5wolfcubs Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm another one who grew up in a family & Christian church that didn't celebrate Christmas/Easter/birthdays for the reasons already mentioned in this thread. I didn't feel I was missing out much because we did celebrate the Old Testament Holy Days (in a rather modern Christ-has-fulfilled way) and so got presents 7 times a year. However, I do remember as a teen longing for the Hallmark Christmas experience! The church relaxed it's teaching on Christmas=pagan when I was in my late teens. And when dh & I had a one year old (and were attending a mainstream mega-church) we decided to "do" Christmas. To him, Christmas was a season of being guilted into buy presents for people you didn't even like and disappointment in what you received/didn't receive from said people. So, while he had been happy to forgo the whole thing, he was willing to give it a Christ-centered try for me. It wasn't a Hallmark experience...dd pulling the tree over twice (and spilling water all over the brand new carpet) was the most memorable event. The second year we had a 10 day baby and so didn't do much (neighbor lent us a pre-decorated mini tree!). The third year I was stressing over sending cards and buying gifts and trying to have a meaningful advent devotion with a 3 & 1 year old... And so we stopped doing Christmas for many years. But a few years ago I suddenly wanted a Christmas tree. Dh said okay and we bought an artificial one. Our celebrations haven't ever met my Hallmark vision, nor do they seem even remotely spiritual (despite my advent/devotional attempts) and I actually feel a lot like TXMomof4: Just thinking here - but we've all noted that Christmas is an invention of the church. It isn't a biblical celebration (as in-it isn't mentioned as a required time of celebration). So, I'm thinking, why not just take it and celebrate it as a cultural celebration rather than a religious celebration. Enjoy the family time, sharing, give thanks to God for the wonderful things in your life and the blessings we all enjoy. It seems so forced to MAKE it a celebration of Jesus' birth when we have noted and recognized the origins of the celebration. This is a new thinking for me - just pondering as I go. I love Christmas. I love Away in a Manger and celebrating the birth of our Lord. But I hate that there has to be the pull between the cultural celebration and the religious aspect of it. It feels like you can't do justice to either sometimes. I spend every day all year celebrating Jesus. I don't know that having a special day that someone here decided was for celebrating his birth makes it have a greater impact on my life. Just thinking. Oh, and to Jean in Newcastle, I think what you (and your mom) are doing is fine! It sounds like you're being respectful to their beliefs while still including them in what is important to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamagirl Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I grew up in a family that did not celebrate Christmas or Easter as religious holidays. The main reason being that the days chosen to celebrate were not biblically correct. We celebrated but only as a secular holiday with Santa and the Easter bunny at the center, decorations, food etc. In fact, all discussions of Jesus' birth and resurrection were avoided in sermons around the holidays, which I always felt was extremist. Today, I agree that Dec. 25 is not the date of Jesus' birth and tell my kids this, but we have no problem making Him the emphasis of the day, though, our goal is to ALWAYS keep Him at the center of our days. I see no problem with the cultural aspects of the holidays as stated by pps. I agree that commercialization has taken over which I despise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 My eldest brother and his family decided about 20 years ago that they were no longer going to celebrate Christmas. I understand their reasoning (the same reasons as given by PPs). I respect their reasoning even though I do not come to the same conclusion. But it does provide some minor difficulties along the line of family equity. If Grandma (my mom) sends Christmas gifts to all the grandkids, is it wrong for her to not send some to these grandkids - in the interest of equity? My mom gets tied up in knots about this because she tries so hard not to have any favoritism and this creates a difference between the families. She has "solved" it by sending a general gift box to the family at the end of November. The gifts are not wrapped in Christmas paper. But of course the family knows that the gifts are really her Christmas gifts given at a different time. They accept them graciously but I'm not sure if they feel like it is a compromise of their principles. I send out a family letter each Christmas in my Christmas card. I send just the letter to this family in January as sort of a New Year's recap of last year. (But it really is my Christmas letter). I do it because I want my brother and his family to be equally informed/connected to our family. So - those who don't celebrate Christmas. Do you feel like these practices are ignoring their belief? Are they compromises? Or are they ok? I think it is a nice compromise. You can find Jehovah's Witnesses official stand at http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_16.htm There are paragraphs at the end about Discernment in dealing with others and What About Family members? Here is a sum up: “Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt, so as to know how you ought to give an answer to each one.†(Colossians 4:6) .... respect their right to their views, just as you want them to respect your right to yours. (Matthew 7:12) Avoid any actions that would make you a participant in the holiday. Still, be reasonable when it comes to matters that do not amount to actual celebration. Of course, you should always act in a way that will leave you with a good conscience.—1 Timothy 1:18, 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 When my sil and her dh decided to stop celebrating Christmas, the way the family found out was to have all their gifts returned with a note saying something like "we can't accept this". As you can imagine there were some hurt feelings. I'm not sure the best way to handle this, but perhaps a letter kindly explaining why and letting people know before the fact. Hopefully it could be done in such a way that the person receiving the letter isn't made to feel that they are doing something wrong by continuing to celebrate Christmas - no preaching. I respect people's right to live their convictions, especially in matters of faith, and if someone just tells me "we've decided in our family not to celebrate Christmas anymore....", that is perfectly fine. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah, that could have been handled a little better. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I grew up in a family that did not celebrate Christmas or Easter as religious holidays. The main reason being that the days chosen to celebrate were not biblically correct. We celebrated but only as a secular holiday with Santa and the Easter bunny at the center, decorations, food etc. In fact, all discussions of Jesus' birth and resurrection were avoided in sermons around the holidays, which I always felt was extremist. Today, I agree that Dec. 25 is not the date of Jesus' birth and tell my kids this, but we have no problem making Him the emphasis of the day, though, our goal is to ALWAYS keep Him at the center of our days. I see no problem with the cultural aspects of the holidays as stated by pps. I agree that commercialization has taken over which I despise. :iagree: It doesn't bother me at all that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th. It's just a day set apart to appreciate that part of the Gospel= God taking on flesh. That was a significant event, and I believe it's valuable to meditate on that fact. Christmas is a wonderful time to do that. It also doesn't matter to me that it is not commanded in the Bible that we acknowledge His birth... Christians take part in all sorts of activities that are not *commanded* in the Bible, and yet they are good, beneficial activities. Ever participate in a missions conference, or a week of prayer, or a women's conference, parenting seminar, or a Superbowl party, or a first day of school celebration? If celebrating Christmas is wrong on the basis that it was not commanded in Scripture, then I believe that logically speaking most of what we do every day would be wrong. To me, it only means that we are not *required* by God to celebrate Christmas; it doesn't in any way suggest that it ought not be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) If celebrating Christmas is wrong on the basis that it was not commanded in Scripture, I don't know how to respond to this statement tactfully. I will just go for factually. That is not why it is wrong. It is wrong because it is copying acts of worship that were/are used to worship false gods. It is an attempt to mix false worship with Christianity. "A little leaven ferments the whole lump". If one is a Christian then this is of concern to them. If one is not a Christian, then I don't see why they would care where Christmas came from. They can go on having it as a fun day if they so choose. Edited October 12, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) I don't know how to respond to this statement tactfully. I will just go for factually. That is not why it is wrong. It is wrong because it is copying acts of worship that were/are used to worship false gods. It is an attempt to mix false worship with Christianity. "A little leaven ferments the whole lump". If one is a Christian then this is of concern to them. If one is not a Christian, then I don't see why they would care where Christmas came from. They can go on having it as a fun day if they so choose. Many of those who posted their reasons did mention either/or the fact that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th, and that it isn't mentioned in Scripture. Those are the two reasons I addressed in my post. As for the other reason that you mention, that it incorporates acts of pagan worship into worship of God, I disagree with you. There are no pagan elements to my family's celebration of Christ on Christmas. Edited October 12, 2009 by Erica in PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 He knows our hearts, Yes he does. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erica in PA Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yes he does. :grouphug: Rats, I was hoping to edit my post before you read it!! :001_smile: I apologize if it was overly harsh. I tried to soften it up and still make my point when I edited it. Thank you for your kind response! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Rats, I was hoping to edit my post before you read it!! :001_smile: I apologize if it was overly harsh. I tried to soften it up and still make my point when I edited it. Thank you for your kind response! :grouphug: I thought it was soft enough, certainly softer than mine. ;) I knew what you meant.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 So - those who don't celebrate Christmas. Do you feel like these practices are ignoring their belief? Are they compromises? Or are they ok? Neither of those situations would make me feel that you or your mother were ignoring my beliefs or that I was compromising by accepting a gift or reading a family news letter. I think those kinds of situations go to the intent of the giver. For instance, my MIL (stbx MIL whoo Hoo) has over the years attempted to force me to celebrate Christmas in one way or the other. She once bought me an electric blanket when she was visiting in early December (she bought it because the guest bed she was using didn't have one, but I was still happy to have it) and AFTER she bought it and AFTER it was on the bed she said, 'That can be your Christmas gift.' :glare: When my stbx goes to see her at Christmas time she sends home all manner of gifts for ds all wrapped in Christmas paper. Like so many families, my stbx's family never get together except at Christmas. Once or twice I tried to join them for a family meal, but when I would hear my MIL say things like, 'it was so nice Scarlett could join us for Christmas' or 'Scarlett celebrated Christmas with us this year.' well, I put an end to that. I'm not overly sensitive to people doing things for me near Christmas. When I worked in the business world I received many gifts from business associates who used that time to express their appreciation of my work. Many weren't close friends and lived far from me and therefore had no idea I don't celebrate Christmas. If their gifts came as Christmas gifts I just graciously accepted them and sent a thank you note. Others who were closer to me and were giving out gifts to say the whole department often went to great pains to send mine in non-Christmas paper with a note saying, 'this is for all your hard work for me through out the year.' I appreciated that kind of thoughtfulness and never rejected a gift in that situation. Once though, back to MIL, I went to a great deal of trouble to get her 3 boys and wives and children all together for a family portrait. It was made in September, and I got it to her early November. Of course, it was my 'Christmas gift' to her. :glare: I'm rambling now. I just mainly wanted to say I would not be one bit offended by the two examples you gave Jean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I am a devout Christian, I was raised in a Christian home. I can see why some don't celebrate Christmas and I respect their viewpoint. At the same time, we DO celebrate Christmas. I love Christmas and all of it's traditions. However, we celebrate it at Jesus' birth. Even though, I've seen evidence that Dec 25 isn't the real date of His birth, it is still the day that's been chosen to celebrate it. I think you can have Christmas, a tree, presents - the whole 9 yards and STILL have Jesus as the center. I know you can - because we did it my whole life and I'm doing it with my kids. From the time they were old enough to talk, they knew exactly what Christmas was about. They've been quoting Scripture since they could speak. Anyone could ask our kids what Christmas was - even at age 1 - and they would say without hesitation, it's about Jesus - it's His birth. They do the same with Easter. I just don't think it has to be an either/or thing. :iagree::iagree::iagree: I got caught up in all of the "Christmas is pagan, etc., etc., etc...." for a few years. I have since come to realize that for my family, that is "majoring in the minors", as I like to call it. It is a time for us to rejoice that Messiah was born, and we love, love, love it. And, this is coming from someone who worships at a Messianic congregation, and truly believes that Yeshua was born most likely during Sukkot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I read through everyone's posts and Thank You for taking the time to answer my question. We DO celebrate Christmas and enjoy it very much. I personally do not have any conviction to stop at this time. I guess I view it like this... Yes, I do know there are many pagan influences in the traditions that we celebrate year after year, but no, I do not have any idea which ones are pagan or what they were used for in the past. My family are Christians and not pagans so we "decorate" for Christmas. I am not big into symbolism anyhow, so christmas trees and the like are simply decorations for me. Also, I feel that if I were to stop everything in my life that had pagan roots, I'd be in serious trouble. Doesn't our calendar and Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc... have pagan roots? How could I keep time? I don't know, for me it is the heart at the issue of the celebration. Family is our focus on the holidays and we are thankful for this God given institution of family. We do have a daily focus on Christ as well, but we don't think of Christmas as Jesus' birthday because it isn't. Christmas is like any other day of the year for us in that he is always to be our focus. Just thought you might like to hear my perspective. God Bless, Michelle Um, yeah - the list goes on. And, wedding rings are pagan, too. :001_rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 But since you brought it up, the difference between a pretty fall wreath and a Christmas tree is that one was used in the practice of false religion and one is just a decoration. I do not reject every single thing ancient pagens did--only those that were clearly used in their worship. And there is a commandment about mixing false worship and true worship. There is also one of the "biggie" commandments about keeping the Sabbath holy, and how you are to do "no regular work", nor exchange money.... You are getting into a very tricky area when you begin to pick out commandments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 There is also one of the "biggie" commandments about keeping the Sabbath holy, and how you are to do "no regular work", nor exchange money.... You are getting into a very tricky area when you begin to pick out commandments... Not as tricky as it would seem. The sabbath was a commandment under the Mosaic law. Avoiding the mixing of false worship was in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Not just the "Old Testament". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaNY Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Not as tricky as it would seem. The sabbath was a commandment under the Mosaic law. Avoiding the mixing of false worship was in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Not just the "Old Testament". I am not familiar w/the Christian Greek Scriptures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites and was no longer in effect after Jesus' sacrifice. This is the reason that some people call the Hebrew Scriptures the "old testament". From Wikipedia: The New Testament is sometimes called the Greek New Testament or Greek Scriptures, or the New Covenant or the New Law. I like to use the terms Hebrew Scriptures and Christian Greek Scriptures, as using the term "Old Testament" seems to indicate that the Hebrew Scriptures are not valuable.[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I am not familiar w/the Christian Greek Scriptures. Well there ya go. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Okay, thanks. That is what confuses me. A lot of Christians say they aren't in affect anymore, but why? I remember Jesus saying He did not come to abolish, but to fullfill it. Also, that those who teach others to break the least of these commandments will be the least in the kingdom of Heaven. What do you feel that is all about? I have my opinions, but I appreciate hearing others. Thanks so much for responding.It is time to start my day. The short answer is that the Mosaic Law is also called the Old Covenant. Jesus established a New Covenant. Let me know if you want me to get more in depth and I can do that later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Paul in Romans says "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them who believe." (10:4) That is, it is not through the law that we have a right relationship with the LORD anymore but through faith in Christ. It is not to say that the moral law of God has changed any more than God has changed. Just as Scripture teaches that he who loves has fulfilled the law (Rom 13:8), it is that moral law that teaches what it means to love (faithfulness, not adultery; truth, not lying; etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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