What, specifically, do you fear about the H1N1 vaccine?

[Melissa in FL]

But the problem with people making their own decisions & everyone 'respecting' that decision is that those decisions affect others than themselves. If you're living the life of a hermit & choose not to vax that argument would be more valid but public health is by definition concerned with the health of the public. In some cases, people choosing to not vaccinate could have devastating effects on the community as a whole.

 

 

You know, I adore you, hornblower and I'm so thankful for all the information calmly given by you (and Perry) again and again on this subject. I'm on flutrackers all the time and I'm glad that you pointed me in the direction of that wonderful resource.

 

(here's the but)I so understand where you are coming from here. I understand the "health of the public" and the (I think it's called) herd immunity that happens in society when almost all are immunized. Those that are immunized protect those that can't be. I really do get that and understand why our government and health departments are trying to immunize as many as possible.

 

I also see my first responsibility is to my family. Teachers have said that if homeschoolers put their children in school the schools would benefit from having those bright students and involved parents. They are also right, it would be best for my community. The problem is, it's not what is best for my kids. Before I serve the greater good, I must serve my family.

 

I see the vaccine in the same light. I must make my decision based on my research in the best interests of my family first. And I really feel that is what I'm doing. I've tried hard to stay away from the "scare" sites that are just spreading misinformation (and there are lots). I've tried to use what I have learned to help correct a lot of the falsehoods about the vax that is out there. I really feel that I'm making the best decision for my family that I can. And even though it may not be the same as others, I feel that it is based on the truth that you and Perry have helped me learn about the H1N1 and the vaccine.

 

As I've said, there are people who I think should get it as soon as possible. I live in a State that has had 109 people die from this, most of them healthy (thanks flutrackers.com!). I've read a lot of the news stories posted on the site about children dieing. It saddens me and scares the Pi$$ out of me. Even so, we've decided not to get the vax at this time. I will watch this carefully and may decide later to get it, but not now.

Melissa

[msjones]

You know, I adore you, hornblower and I'm so thankful for all the information calmly given by you (and Perry) again and again on this subject. I'm on flutrackers all the time and I'm glad that you pointed me in the direction of that wonderful resource.

 

(here's the but)I so understand where you are coming from here. I understand the "health of the public" and the (I think it's called) herd immunity that happens in society when almost all are immunized. Those that are immunized protect those that can't be. I really do get that and understand why our government and health departments are trying to immunize as many as possible.

 

I also see my first responsibility is to my family. Teachers have said that if homeschoolers put their children in school the schools would benefit from having those bright students and involved parents. They are also right, it would be best for my community. The problem is, it's not what is best for my kids. Before I serve the greater good, I must serve my family.

 

I see the vaccine in the same light. I must make my decision based on my research in the best interests of my family first. And I really feel that is what I'm doing. I've tried hard to stay away from the "scare" sites that are just spreading misinformation (and there are lots). I've tried to use what I have learned to help correct a lot of the falsehoods about the vax that is out there. I really feel that I'm making the best decision for my family that I can. And even though it may not be the same as others, I feel that it is based on the truth that you and Perry have helped me learn about the H1N1 and the vaccine.

 

As I've said, there are people who I think should get it as soon as possible. I live in a State that has had 109 people die from this, most of them healthy (thanks flutrackers.com!). I've read a lot of the news stories posted on the site about children dieing. It saddens me and scares the Pi$$ out of me. Even so, we've decided not to get the vax at this time. I will watch this carefully and may decide later to get it, but not now.

Melissa

 

Great post.

But, what, specifically, are you concerned might happen if your family has this vaccination? I sound like I'm cornering you don't I? Sorry. I'm just trying to get down to the specific concern -- because I don't share the general concerns that have been described in the posts here.

[LibraryLover]

Ignorance and propaganda is what we don't want. People want research, people want to be given ways to care for themselves without the need of injecting themselves with something that hasn't been researched for more than a few weeks (if even). Government officials, these makers of the vaccine, are trying to scare people into taking a vaccine that hasn't been tested. Things are being blown out of proportion over this so-called 'swine-flu'. Our government wants us to trust them, blindly follow them, and believe in something that health officials themselves are cautioning us to avoid. How can we trust something that has such an awful history? A history that no one denies and that caused the government to suspend the program in 1976, not long after it started, after many injuries (including Guillain-Barre syndrome) and death.

 

Mercola is not based in peer -reviewed research, so anytime anyone throws out Mercola as their source, I pause. Greatly.

 

My family has never gotten a single flu vaccine, so do not assume anything.

Edited October 10, 2009 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

Great post.

But, what, specifically, are you concerned might happen if your family has this vaccination? I sound like I'm cornering you don't I? Sorry. I'm just trying to get down to the specific concern -- because I don't share the general concerns that have been described in the posts here.

 

 

I agree. Where are the specific concerns? That some people thought the chicken pox vax was a one time deal? We haven't done the CP vax, but we were told by our Dr when it came out that boosters would be needed, just as with MMR , Tetanus etc. I've always known that! That some people didn't know what was stated at the onset is not a specific concern of mine when it comes to H1N1.

Edited October 10, 2009 by LibraryLover

[organichomemaking]

Mercola is not science.

 

No person "is" science and science is wrong all the time!

 

Mercola is not based in peer -reviewed research, so anytime anyone throws out Mercola as their source, I pause. Greatly.

 

My family has never gotten a single flu vaccine, so do not assume anything.

 

Dr. Mercola is a doctor who knows his natural and western medicine well, and continues his research every day. He gives you sources, advice, and the tools to do more research. You don't have to take what he says. He can make mistakes just like every other doctor out there. But he isn't the only one cautioning people.

 

Also, I wasn't going to assume anything about you.

[LibraryLover]

No person "is" science and science is wrong all the time!

 

 

 

Dr. Mercola is a doctor who knows his natural and western medicine well, and continues his research every day. He gives you sources, advice, and the tools to do more research. You don't have to take what he says. He can make mistakes just like every other doctor out there. But he isn't the only one cautioning people.

 

Also, I wasn't going to assume anything about you.

 

 

I don't trust Mercola. You can. But for me, no.

[Melissa in FL]

Great post.

But, what, specifically, are you concerned might happen if your family has this vaccination? I sound like I'm cornering you don't I? Sorry. I'm just trying to get down to the specific concern -- because I don't share the general concerns that have been described in the posts here.

 

I really don't have any "fear/skepticism" about this vaccine. I'm trying to weigh the pros/cons to having it versus just getting the H1N1 naturally. I don't think any of us can avoid ever getting exposed to this, we all will. And since we don't have any natural immunities we will eventually get it.

 

Right now the flu isn't that bad and I tend to go with more natural cures. I've never been one to run to the doctor for antibiotics, most things that we get are viruses that we fight off ourselves. And now it's been shown that we have more problems because doctors have over prescribed antibiotics. I wouldn't take a chance with something like small pox, it was terrible and if it were here my kids would get vaxed. But this is (right now) for most people just a mild flu. If the hospitals filled up, I might change my mind. If the flu mutated and became more deadly, I might change my mind. But at this moment I view the chance of one of us dying from getting it naturally as less than the chance of one of us dying driving to co-op.

 

I guess for me it stems from my dad was a pharmacist. Every time I so much as sniffled he would put me on an antibiotic. Every time. Now, as an adult, I've built up an allergy to almost all antibiotics. This is because they were overused on me as a child. It's sometimes scary because when I get REALLY sick and need something that homeopathic drugs won't help with there is very little the doctors can use with me. It concerns me that someday I may have something that I can't get over because I can't be treated the way doctors will typically treat their patient. I think my dad did the best he could. Back then that was the "cure all". I think he made the best decision he could with the information he had at the time. But now I wish he hadn't.

 

If he had just let my body do what it was made to do, I would be much better off today. So, for me, I research and try to pick the least harmful for my family. I try to pick the most natural way. Does Thimeral cause autism? I don't know, but if not that, then what else might we find after the years go by. We just don't know. We do vaccinate our kids for childhood diseases. But I do go in informed about them. My youngest two haven't had the Hep A yet, but they will. Gardisil will not be put into their bodies until it's been on the market for a lot longer.

 

To me, not vaccinating for this isn't because I'm fearful of the vaccines, it's because I evaluate the risk for each vaccine versus the risk of the disease. As I said, it's a personal choice. I am often curious about why people make choices the way they do. I hope I helped you see why I've made the choice I have.

Melissa

[LibraryLover]

A pharmacist giving their kid random antbx at the drop of a hat is, pure and simple, medical abuse. (and I know lots of people have done this as well). A pharmacist should understand that antbx only works on bacteria, not viruses, & colds are mostly viral. Because some abused medicine doesn't mean a person with more knowledge will. Although that story is sad (and one reason antbx often don't work well) it is not specific to H1N1.

Edited October 13, 2009 by LibraryLover

[Melissa in FL]

I agree. Where are the specific concerns? That some people thought the chicken pox vax was a one time deal? We haven't done the CP vax, but we were told by our Dr when it came out that boosters would be needed, just as with MMR , Tetanus etc. I've always known that! That some people didn't know what was stated at the onset is not a specific concern of mine when it comes to H1N1.

 

It's not a "specific concern" about the vaccine (a least not for me). It's just the choice we have made on our own from the research we have done. I'm not NOT getting it out of fear or something.

 

Your questioning sounds like if I were to ask you: Why are you getting it? Why would you consider it? It's just a mild flu.

 

There are a lot of things each family must consider. We have considered it all and decided to get it naturally. We have decided to take extra C and D and other things to fight off this flu. I do think this is a very serious decision. I do think there are risks to it either way. For most this is mild, for some it is deadly. For now we aren't getting the vaccination.

Melissa

[Melissa in FL]

One of our closet friends was trained as your basic physician...and he is an excellent physician. He was also trained later on in holistic methods, including acupuncture. He can relate to the best of both worlds, and he never shuns one for the other, but sees them as working in tandem.

 

A pharmacist giving their kid random antbx at the drop of a hat is, pure and simple, medical abuse. (and I know lots of people have done this as well). A pharmacist should understand that antbx only works on bacteria, not viruses, & colds are mostly viral. So that's just crazy. If you don't understand something...well, I'm just saying that because someone abused medicine (he should not have been doing that, btw) doesn't mean someone with better training and knowledge will. So, even though that story is sad (and one reason antbx don't work well) it is not specific to H1N1.

 

I agree with your friend. I would love to find a doctor that is educated in both ways, that would be great!

 

I don't shun one for another either. If someone in our house gets a serious case of this flu we will go to the hospital for treatment (in a heartbeat).

 

Dad understood the difference between bacteria and virus very well. But back then was a different time. Most doctors back then handed out an antibiotic every time a sick kid's parents paid to bring them in. It was seen as nothing harmful. Even if it was a virus an antibiotic won't hurt. Well, we all know differently now, don't we? Sorta like lead paint? Or maybe asbestos? How about car seats? I could fill a page with things that we know better now.

 

That's the thing. We are learning all the time. We don't know what our children will think of vaccines in the future will we? Our science changes and what was OK today is horrible tomorrow. Heck, he also gave me aspirin every time I complained of pain or a headache or had a fever. We know better NOW. There may be things that we don't know yet about vaccines and their ingredients. Things that we learn in the future. That's why I weigh the pros and cons for each one, and right not we're not getting this one.

Melissa

[organichomemaking]

I agree with your friend. I would love to find a doctor that is educated in both ways, that would be great!

 

I don't shun one for another either. If someone in our house gets a serious case of this flu we will go to the hospital for treatment (in a heartbeat).

 

Dad understood the difference between bacteria and virus very well. But back then was a different time. Most doctors back then handed out an antibiotic every time a sick kid's parents paid to bring them in. It was seen as nothing harmful. Even if it was a virus an antibiotic won't hurt. Well, we all know differently now, don't we? Sorta like lead paint? Or maybe asbestos? How about car seats? I could fill a page with things that we know better now.

 

That's the thing. We are learning all the time. We don't know what our children will think of vaccines in the future will we? Our science changes and what was OK today is horrible tomorrow. Heck, he also gave me aspirin every time I complained of pain or a headache or had a fever. We know better NOW. There may be things that we don't know yet about vaccines and their ingredients. Things that we learn in the future. That's why I weigh the pros and cons for each one, and right not we're not getting this one.

Melissa

 

 

I understand this very well. I was given too many antibiotics as a child as well. With our first child, I took him in for everything. It did not mean he received medication but we didn't know much about letting the body do things on its own. The first time I attempted going natural was during a bad illness (that was still mildish) my youngest had. For precaution, we got the antibiotic and it sat in our fridge. My husband was in the nursing field, so I know very well to at least keep it in my fridge. Our son healed naturally. It was a hard time for me because medicine is always the easy way out, but our body weakens after so much medicine and it becomes harder for our bodies to fight. I know this now as a woman in my 20's who has seen very weak days during sickness. Through healthier eating, removal of stress, and just a better living environment, my health has improved a lot and I get sick less often.

 

I don't believe in not vaccinating at all. I don't believe in this H1N1 vaccine being good for me or my family. I don't believe in seasonal flu shots. I don't agree with the vaccine schedule in place for children. There are other countries (Japan, an example) that hold off on vaccines for children a bit longer, why are we so early? Why is there the yucky ingredients in vaccines that exist? Not just Formaldehyde and Mercury and Thimerosal but gelatin (from cow and pig skin), Fetal Bovine Serum, etc.?? Why would I want this in my child's body? Many people are ignorant of ingredients: http://www.cdc.gov/VACCINES/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

I can't ignore the injuries that occur right after vaccinating. I can't ignore the deaths that have taken place since vaccines were introduced, until today. It happens, more than we may want to acknowledge. The FDA itself has admitted that they only get about 10% of the reports of injuries. It's scary. But after being on the natural side of life for a while now, I believe that what will happen will happen. Our bodies can heal on their own if we give them proper nutrition, keep our bodies clean and our environment as clean and stress free as possible, etc. And if we are meant to go, then we are meant to go. But that doesn't mean that I'm willing to give into something just because everyone else wants me to, especially if the probability that it is unsafe is high due to little research!

Edited October 10, 2009 by organichomemaking

[Reya]

Perplexing and sad? Really? Have you read up on vaccinations? You are injecting a foreign chemical into your child's body. I think it's a bit far fetched to deem it as sad. Don't we all do what we think is best for our childrens lives? While we choose not to vaccinate, I would never tell another parent that it is sad if they choose to vaccinate. I would hope that they have done their research though, before injecting a foreign chemical.

 

I do that every day with my kids.

 

It's called FEEDING them.

[ChristusG]

I do that every day with my kids.

 

It's called FEEDING them.

 

Yep, you are exactly right. Which is why, in addition to refusing most vaccinations, we also eat as much organic food that we can.

[Peela]

It seems to me that the large pharmaceutical companies, some of which are the wealthiest companies in the U.S., have vested interests. I have read enough articles over the years that suggest that there is much corruption at high levels, and so many vested interests, that I just dont believe what they say anymore- particularly when they are goign to make billions of $ from it. I think the public is rightly sceptical. Blind faith in the "science" that is put forth to justify thousands of medications including vaccinations,that is basically coming from corrupt and vested interests, is a dangerous thing nowadays. It feels comfortable to trust the authorities until something goes wrong with someone you know personally.

 

Having said that, I did a partial and delayed vaccination schedule with my kids at my dh's insistence and neither had any obvious reaction. A year later though I had them tested for heavy metals and both came up positive for mercury. I could only trace it back to the vaccinations they had. There is NO safe level of mercury in the system.

 

In the end...perhaps most people will be ok. And perhaps not. It's hard to know the long term affects of vaccinations (and in the case of the swine flu one, perhaps even the short term ones since it has been rushed in). The rates of autism and autoimmune conditions have skyrocketed in the last couple of decades...why? They don't know. It may not be one thing- it may be the vast number of chemicals we are now exposed to in our lifetime- kids have sensitive systems and will be the first to suffer.

 

I dont see the need for this vaccinaiton, for most people, and I never vaccinate for flu. Dh did for years, and kept getting sick as well...this winter, he didnt vaccinate, and didnt get sick. Strange how often people say that.

[Perry]

Perry (or anyone else who may know) - is there expected to be a higher amount of thimerosal in the H1N1 vaccines than in the regular seasonal flu shots?

 

Most vaccines don't contain thimerosal, but when they do, they all seem to contain the same amount. Here's a table with thimerosal content of all vaccines.

 

Scroll down to Influenza 2009/10 Formula and Influenza A - H1N1 2009 and you'll see that there are several different preparations. Those that contain thimerosal contain 24.5 or 25 mcg/0.5 ml Hg

[EarleneW]

My kids have never gotten a single flu shot and have never had the flu. My dad got one every year as well as got the flu. It's not a fear of anything in the shot, i just don't beleive in injecting things into a childs body that they don't really need. To each his own though, who am I to say what anyone else should do. I am only responsible for my own kids!

[Shelly in the Country]

And I never had a flu shot until last year, but got the flu several times over the course of my life. As an adult I had the flu in 1999 and in spring 2008. Our whole family caught it in spring 2008 and that is why we got the flu shot last fall.....and we didn't get the flu that year. We decided on getting the flu shot because after our whole family caught the flu, I had 4 kids with ear infections, one kid with bronchitis and dh missing a week of work. We decided the flu shot would be less costly than the flu. I don't think we'll have access to the H1N1 vaccine until after it hits our area, so here's hoping we get a mild case when it comes.

[fivetails]

"specific concerns" ? Well that's an easy question for me. My "specific concern" is someone in our family dying from this new Flu or from the vaccine itself in some way.

[Lizzie in Ma]

All of that aside, I am very much on the fence about the H1N1 vaccine. I will not get them the mist for anyone in the family. Dh and I are not 100% in agreement on the H1N1 shot (which is not available here yet anyway) either. My biggest worries are how quickly the vaccine was produced, the amount of additives to make it work, and the fact that, if it does mutate, the vaccine may very well be ineffective afterall. Everything I read about the vaccines and every doctor I talk to about them, has a differing opinion and differing "facts." I feel "darned if I do, darned if I don't." Another poster (maybe another thread?) was saying that she would never forgive herself if anything happened to her sons...and the fact is that something can happen without the shot (H1N1) OR something can happen as a result of the shot (reaction). It is a tough call.

 

:iagree:

I also feel this way. We have never gotten the flu vaccine and we have never had the flu. Our oldest is immuncompromised but her symptoms remain undiagnosed so we are loathe to give her anything at all most of the time.

She has so many issues already, neither her Dr. or her father and I dare get her vaccinated for even the seasonal flu. Certainly in no way would we get the flu mist nasal vaccination, as it does contain live virus, under any circumstances at all. Too stupid IMHO to even risk it.

A tad off topic:

We live in Ma where the Big Brother government is trying to make it mandatory if the Governor declares an emergency. I have authority issues in the first place but this really has my blood up.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I'll try to answer the OP from my POV.

 

Trust or lack of it regarding the vaccine industry. That is probably my number one reason. It seems like the industry is making it up as they go. For example, 1) Chicken pox-one shot is all you need. Oh wait, I guess we will need boosters (it will probably be life time boosters eventually.) Oh geez, there is an increase in Shingles, well lets make a vaccine for that, too. 2) live oral polio. My oldest had it. I asked "is this safe to have a live vaccine?" OHHHHH YESSSSS! What did they discover? It CAUSED polio. Okay, well we better offer a killed version.

3) Rotateq was pulled for problems (deaths?) but I believe it is back on the list (after a bit of tweaking perhaps?)

 

As a previous poster has said there is no legal recourse against a manufacturer if there is a problem with a vaccine.

 

There has never been a study to compare the long term health of children who have been vaxed versus unvaccinated children. We don't know what the long term effect of having all of these innoculations on our immune system. Can they cause autoimmune disorders down the road?

 

Also, I have read that there are problems sometimes with how some studies are conducted, such as the placebo containing aluminum, causing just as many adverse reactions as the tested vaccine. Then the vaccine is dubbed as safe.

 

Conflicts of interest. I don't think those who own vaccines patents should be on the CDC advisory board deciding what shots our children have to receive.

 

Just off the top of my head. Sorry, I don't have time to offer any links. You should be able to find them online.

 

I guess we just have to all do our research. I want to be trusting, but the more I read the more difficult it is to trust.

 

You put into words exactly what I wanted to say. It boils down to the fact that I don't really trust the CDC. Do I think they are out to hurt our children - absolutely not, but I think the accountability is not up to par and there are too many personal agendas and conflicts of interest.

 

I would like to hear from the physicians who have personally researched auto-immune disorders and vaccines over long periods of time. Where are these people and are they vaccinating their children?

 

I feel the pressure this year because my baby is in UPK at the school and they are planning vaccine clinics in a few weeks. There is a subtle "peer pressure" I sense in the school about doing the "smart and responsible" thing in regard to vaccinating. I would love to do the right thing but I'm not sure it is.

 

NY has already made it mandatory that all health care workers be vaccinated against H1N1. I know at least 1 person who is very against this and may have to look for a job in a new state.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Blossom'sGirl
Because I hate when I use there/their wrong

[msjones]

OP here.

 

So, the main specific concern I've seen listed is potential risks from the thimerosol (sp?).

 

Then there are many general concerns regarding big companies motivated by making money from a "rushed" vaccine regardless of the risks to the general population. Also, what I suppose I'll call a general distrust of American medicine.

 

Anyone else with specific concerns about what might happen to you or your children as direct result of receiving the H1N1 vaccine?

[mirth]

OP here.

 

So, the main specific concern I've seen listed is potential risks from the thimerosol (sp?).

 

Then there are many general concerns regarding big companies motivated by making money from a "rushed" vaccine regardless of the risks to the general population. Also, what I suppose I'll call a general distrust of American medicine.

 

Anyone else with specific concerns about what might happen to you or your children as direct result of receiving the H1N1 vaccine?

 

Ok, here's one. The as yet unpublished Canadian study suggests that people who received seasonal flu vax last year are more susceptible to H1N1 virus this year. I'm sure this was unexpected or at least not purposely designed.

 

So what if H1N1 vax this year makes a person more susceptible to H5N1 or some other strain next year? From what I recall, a huge important and expensive part of pharma research is FTIM studies (First Time In Man). Does H1N1 have any FTIM studies? Does its release into the stream of public health count as its FTIM?

 

Also, I would be interested to see a press conference of the President, the VP, the HHS Sec, the Education Sec, and all their spouses and kids actually getting this shot or intranasal.

Edited October 10, 2009 by mirth

[LibraryLover]

Ok, here's one. The as yet unpublished Canadian study suggests that people who received seasonal flu vax last year are more susceptible to H1N1 virus this year. I'm sure this was unexpected or at least not purposely designed.

 

So what if H1N1 vax this year makes a person more susceptible to H5N1 or some other strain next year? From what I recall, a huge important and expensive part of pharma research is FTIM studies (First Time In Man). Does H1N1 have any FTIM studies? Does its release into the stream of public health count as its FTIM?

 

Also, I would be interested to see a press conference of the President, the VP, the HHS Sec, the Education Sec, and all their spouses and kids actually getting this shot or intranasal.

 

My understanding is that those folks had mostly mild cases of H1N1, and no deaths were reported. That the flu shot actually helped them handle H1N1 better.

[Carpe Diem]

A family member will contract Guillian-Barre.

A family member will develop the H1N1 after the innoculation.

A family member will spread H1N1 via shedding.

A family member will suffer a severe adverse reaction (other than GBS.)

A family member will die.

My auto-immune disease will worsen.

A family member will develop an auto-immune disease.

 

More people died from the last swine flu vax campaign and many more contract GBS compared to how many died from the swine flu.

[Melissa in FL]

OP here.

 

Anyone else with specific concerns about what might happen to you or your children as direct result of receiving the H1N1 vaccine?

 

In my opinion, the vaccine is as safe as any other years flu vaccine that was put through the process quicker than most years. I think that's the answer you are looking for.

Melissa

[Tree House Academy]

OP here.

 

So, the main specific concern I've seen listed is potential risks from the thimerosol (sp?).

 

Then there are many general concerns regarding big companies motivated by making money from a "rushed" vaccine regardless of the risks to the general population. Also, what I suppose I'll call a general distrust of American medicine.

 

Anyone else with specific concerns about what might happen to you or your children as direct result of receiving the H1N1 vaccine?

 

The thimerosal is the least of my worries. We take a seasonal flu shot each year (the kids do anyway) and they have trace amounts of thimerosal in them. According to the FDA, a tuna fish sandwich has more mercury than that in it.

 

I think the H1N1 flu vaccine has MORE thirmeroal than a seasonal vaccine, though, and I think that is causing a bit more concern. I seem to remember reading something about how the FDA changed the rules for this one vaccine to be made with more mercury.

 

There is a poll somewhere that showed that only about 100,000 of the 3 MILLION people in the US get the seasonal flu shot anyway. There are a whole lot more planning to get the H1N1 shot (40% of the population roughly are expected)...

Edited October 10, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Tree House Academy]

My understanding is that those folks had mostly mild cases of H1N1, and no deaths were reported. That the flu shot actually helped them handle H1N1 better.

 

 

This is my understanding as well - but the study can't really be understood fully at this time because it is yet unpublished. The US and other countries deny seeing this same "trend." And I am left wondering if the vaccine used in CA last year was exactly the same as the one used in the US last year.

[Tree House Academy]

A family member will contract Guillian-Barre.

A family member will develop the H1N1 after the innoculation.

A family member will spread H1N1 via shedding.

A family member will suffer a severe adverse reaction (other than GBS.)

A family member will die.

My auto-immune disease will worsen.

A family member will develop an auto-immune disease.

 

More people died from the last swine flu vax campaign and many more contract GBS compared to how many died from the swine flu.

 

Leave out the "my auto-immune" sentence (because I don't have one) and this is EXACTLY what is causing my hesitation!

 

However, a similar list can be made (for us) as to why one SHOULD get the vaccine. In the end, the benefits of the vaccine will have to outweigh the risks listed above. As of right now, that hasn't quite happened for us. However, as 78 pediatric deaths in children the ages of my children - 15-22 of whom were previously completely healthy - are reported, my views are starting to change as far as benefits vs risks.

[LibraryLover]

 

However, a similar list can be made (for us) as to why one SHOULD get the vaccine. In the end, the benefits of the vaccine will have to outweigh the risks listed above. As of right now, that hasn't quite happened for us. However, as 78 pediatric deaths in children the ages of my children - 15-22 of whom were previously completely healthy - are reported, my views are starting to change as far as benefits vs risks.

 

 

It certainly seems different.

 

Further, as I search, I find many conspiracy theories and such. I had no idea how much this Obama New World Order, and the whole Antichrist thing is playing into why one shouldn't get the vax.

 

I would like to find something not hysterical on the don't vax side, and it's been difficult.

Edited October 10, 2009 by LibraryLover

[organichomemaking]

I fear that this is an attempt to cause many deaths all over the world. Has anyone heard of Jane Burgermeister? She's an Austrian journalist (originally from Ireland) who filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN), and others. She was fired from her job as European Correspondent of the Renewable Energy World website after taking this on, without being explained why she was being fired.

 

Her personal blog: http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

 

Her website dedicated to this: The Flu Case: http://www.theflucase.com

 

This is her document that she has presented with the criminal charges: http://www.theflucase.com/downloads/Microsoft_Word__Criminal_Charges__Swine_flu_edits_v2_1_.pdf

 

It's quite a download but a must read for everyone.

Edited October 10, 2009 by organichomemaking

[Mommy22alyns]

I don't "fear" the H1N1 vax. I just have a very strong skepticism about it. I look askance at anything that is heavily pushed at me. :glare:

 

Maybe I'm just misinformed, but I'm not going to rush right in and get the shot because someone thinks I should. We did the standard vaxes - they're OLD, they've been around for a long time and tons of people have had them. How old is this H1N1 vax? Comparatively speaking, how many people have had this vax vs. the smallpox vax? That's my concern.

[LibraryLover]

I don't "fear" the H1N1 vax. I just have a very strong skepticism about it. I look askance at anything that is heavily pushed at me. :glare:

 

Maybe I'm just misinformed, but I'm not going to rush right in and get the shot because someone thinks I should. We did the standard vaxes - they're OLD, they've been around for a long time and tons of people have had them. How old is this H1N1 vax? Comparatively speaking, how many people have had this vax vs. the smallpox vax? That's my concern.

 

We've never done a flu vax...but flu vaxes are nothing new. Just the strain changes , right? Sometimes the get the right flu strain, sometimes they don't.

[hornblower]

Has anyone heard of Jane Burgermeister?

 

Yes, I have. And I think she's a total crank.

[organichomemaking]

Yes, I have. And I think she's a total crank.

 

Have you read her charges that she presented to the FBI?

[hornblower]

And I am left wondering if the vaccine used in CA last year was exactly the same as the one used in the US last year.

 

The antigenic profile of the vaccines is the same. It's decided for the whole hemisphere. Canada's may have been made by a different manufacturer though. I believe our contracts are with GSK.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#2008-2009_season_.28Northern_Hemisphere.29

 

The composition of virus vaccines for use in the 2008-2009 Northern Hemisphere influenza season recommended by the World Health Organization on February 14, 2008[104] was:

 

• an A/Brisbane/59/2007 (H1N1)-like virus;

• an A/Brisbane/10/2007 (H3N2)-like virus;

• a B/Florida/4/2006-like virus (B/Florida/4/2006 and B/Brisbane/3/2007 (a B/Florida/4/2006-like virus) were used at the time).[

 

[5Youngs]

Thanks for the link. I read it.

 

But I'd assume that some risk-benefit analysis has been done, and that the risk of complications/death from this flu is greater than the risk of complications/death from the mercury in the vaccine.

 

Am I off base with that assumption?

 

:confused:

 

http://www.theflucase.com/

 

This should keep you busy for awhile~

Best of luck with your decision.

[Perry]

Have you read her charges that she presented to the FBI?

Yes. Mass genocide. If *they* (whoever they is) want to commit mass genocide there are way better ways of doing it than in a flu shot.

[5Youngs]

Yes, I have. And I think she's a total crank.

 

I guess this voids my last post.

Best of luck to you, anyway~

[hornblower]

Have you read her charges that she presented to the FBI?

 

Yes, I have.

 

There is actually no proof that she filed anything though. She SAYS she did but there is no proof of that & the only 'proof' one ever finds about her is all on the conspiracy rumour mill sites. On top of everything else, I don't actually think civilians can 'file criminal charges with the FBI'. I mean, what does that mean? Any lawyers here? I think this is all bunk. How does one file a criminal charge with the FBI? Don't criminal charges get filed by prosecutors? Honestly, I think this is all just nonsense.

 

And the rest of my assessment of her & her 'evidence' stands.

 

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone but the credibility on all this is ummmm, low.

[Perry]

Yes, I have.

 

There is actually no proof that she filed anything though. She SAYS she did but there is no proof of that & the only 'proof' one ever finds about her is all on the conspiracy rumour mill sites. On top of everything else, I don't actually think civilians can 'file criminal charges with the FBI'. I mean, what does that mean? Any lawyers here? I think this is all bunk. How does one file a criminal charge with the FBI? Don't criminal charges get filed by prosecutors? Honestly, I think this is all just nonsense.

 

And the rest of my assessment of her & her 'evidence' stands.

 

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone but the credibility on all this is ummmm, low.

 

:iagree:We've done this before.

Natural News

Preliminary Injunction to Halt Mandatory Flu Vaccination in the U.S. Has Been Issued (correction)

(NaturalNews) Editor's Note: It has come to our attention that the following article is factually incorrect. It was written by a contributing writer, then approved by an in-house editor who did not catch the significant errors in this article. As a result of these significant errors, and due to our commitment to publishing only true and accurate information to the best of our ability, we have made an editorial decision to reject further articles from this author.

 

NaturalNews deeply regrets this unintentional error, and we are brainstorming new ways to put in place tighter fact-checking oversight so that the same mistake does not happen again in the future. We thank all those who have brought this important matter to our attention, and we pledge to increase our efforts to reject stories that contain factual inaccuracies.

 

For the record, what was factually incorrect about the story (which we confirmed by phone with a clerk of United States District Court of Trenton, New Jersey) is that no such injunction has been filed. Thus, the entire premise of the story was factually incorrect.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Perry

[Amy loves Bud]

I fear ending up like my neighbor who contracted Guillain-Barre after receiving the swine flu shot in the 70's.

 

I'm a doctor, I know it's anecdotal. Totally get that. But as frequently as I have to visit her in the hospital, as often as I watch her dear, sweet husband pick her up and carry her from wheelchair to car or vice versa, as I see the many physical disabilities that cause her suffering and limit her life in ways I can't even imagine, I stop in my tracks.

 

At this point, for us, it's a moot point. Luke came down with what we presume to be swine flu yesterday (3 of his good buddies also have had it this week, two of them confirmed Type A cases - we haven't been to the doctor). I would imagine we'll all end up with it before the immunizations are available. But we were leaning away from it anyway.

[Marylou]

Mercola is not based in peer -reviewed research, so anytime anyone throws out Mercola as their source, I pause. Greatly.

 

My family has never gotten a single flu vaccine, so do not assume anything.

 

"Peer-reviewed" doesn't awe me as much as it did when I was in college :glare:. And I don't think I'm in the minority there!

[LibraryLover]

"Peer-reviewed" doesn't awe me as much as it did when I was in college :glare:. And I don't think I'm in the minority there!

 

 

The rumor mill is not more credible, however. ;)

 

Not that I don't love a good conspiracy theory...for comedic value.

[LibraryLover]

I fear that this is an attempt to cause many deaths all over the world. Has anyone heard of Jane Burgermeister? She's an Austrian journalist (originally from Ireland) who filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN), and others. She was fired from her job as European Correspondent of the Renewable Energy World website after taking this on, without being explained why she was being fired.

 

Her personal blog: http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/

 

Her website dedicated to this: The Flu Case: www.theflucase.com

 

This is her document that she has presented with the criminal charges: http://www.theflucase.com/downloads/Microsoft_Word__Criminal_Charges__Swine_flu_edits_v2_1_.pdf

 

It's quite a download but a must read for everyone.

 

 

Didn't we have this conversation here...or maybe it was another site. At any rate, my opinion is that she a crackpot.

[hornblower]

"Peer-reviewed" doesn't awe me as much as it did when I was in college :glare:. And I don't think I'm in the minority there!

 

I could easily say that 'conspiracy theories' don't awe me as much as they did when I was in college. But that's beside the point......

 

So, what process do you propose for scientists to continue conducting their research? How do you suggest they should continue to add to the body of knowledge of science which leads to greater understanding of the world?

 

It's not that there aren't problems in the system; it's slow (unbearably and unacceptably so given the speed of internet communication this day) and I think there's always a bit of a bias towards a conservative (I'm using the non-political meaning of the term) view.

 

I'm hard pressed to think of a good substitute. Each individual cannot be an expert on all realms of science. We all need use the products of scientific knowledge daily - the design of our cars, medicines, food additives, insulation, the computer screen you're reading this on - it's endless. We need a good way of determining our best understandings of scientific concepts. How else can these decisions be made?

 

Surely some tv personality looking to pump up ratings is not the best source? Similarly, large chunks of the internet are populated by totally insane people who just happen to know how to type.

 

And surely whether someone is in a minority or a majority is irrelevant to whether a point is valid. Majorities - even scientists - have made mistakes.

[Marylou]

And surely whether someone is in a minority or a majority is irrelevant to whether a point is valid. Majorities - even scientists - have made mistakes.

 

Exactly

 

ETA: I can think of one "Big" science theory that the majority of scientists vehemently defend . . . . but that's that other thread(s).

Edited October 10, 2009 by dmmosher

[Marylou]

 

Surely some tv personality looking to pump up ratings is not the best source?

 

 

I would much rather be treated as an adult and have a tv personality present me with BOTH sides of an issue than to be treated like a child who needs a LECTURE (from other tv personalities).

 

Maybe that's why their ratings are high?????

Edited October 10, 2009 by dmmosher

[LibraryLover]

My 10 yr old has never had antbx, either, so this flu worries me because it looks like young people with the strongest immune systems are more dramatically affected.

 

I have no idea why we rarely (knock wood) get sick. We also don't have cavities.

 

We eat organic, local as much as we can, and lots of garlic and herbs. We are parsley people, too, and these things are anti bacterial and anti viral. We eat some junk food, but not lots.

 

I think it's the garlic, although people don't tell us we smell. lol It could also be just luck and /or access to clean water.

 

Please tell me what you eat that everyone stays so healthy!

 

We do get flu shots, and plan to get the H1N1 because:

 

1. My son, after an illness this year, has the early signs of MS.

2. My daughter is hit very hard by respiratory illness, and we suspect has JRA.

 

I didn't know about the mercury. I'll have to read about that.

[Katiebug_1976]

Ignorance and propaganda is what we don't want. People want research, people want to be given ways to care for themselves without the need of injecting themselves with something that hasn't been researched for more than a few weeks (if even). Government officials, these makers of the vaccine, are trying to scare people into taking a vaccine that hasn't been tested. Things are being blown out of proportion over this so-called 'swine-flu'. Our government wants us to trust them, blindly follow them, and believe in something that health officials themselves are cautioning us to avoid. How can we trust something that has such an awful history? A history that no one denies and that caused the government to suspend the program in 1976, not long after it started, after many injuries (including Guillain-Barre syndrome) and death.

 

:iagree:

[Scarlett]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. But I don't understand the fear/skepticism related to the flu vaccine.

 

I haven't read the many flu threads, or the vaccination debate threads. I've decided that my kids will get the vaccine. We have friends with little babies, pregnant friends, and friends whose children have chronic health issues. And, we'd just like to avoid the flu if we can.

 

But, my question is this:

What are the specific risks of having a flu shot? What are the risks related to this particular flu shot?

 

Links to relevant articles would be appreciated, if you have them.

Thanks.

 

Haven't read any responses, but I am not comfortable deliberately injecting poison into my body or my sons.