ereks mom Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Me too. She shouldn't be displaying anything, but even if she does, he shouldn't be looking. Two wrongs don't make a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Any time I leave the house, I do so knowing I could be looked at. As long as someone isn't rude, cross into my personal space, make comments, etc., I can't control their behavior and don't feel it's really my concern. I do think that I'm less likely to be stared at in a low cut shirt than I would be if I went out in modest dress with my head covered, at least in the Metro Atlanta area. Either way, though, it's not my job to worry about who looks. I don't wear anything obscene or that would embarrass my kids, and that's where my obligation to others stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You are my new hero! And that just made my entire day. My kids have been telling me how rotten I am all day and my dh is out of town. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 And that just made my entire day. My kids have been telling me how rotten I am all day and my dh is out of town. Thank you. I hope you don't mind but I just sent this to the superintendent and the other principals at my school (I work at a christian school and we have these mdesty debates all the time). They liked it a lot and want to use it in chapel next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have lots more to say on this issue but I have to other things do right now and promiss to add more when I return, I don't think staring is appropriate - it never is. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Any time I leave the house, I do so knowing I could be looked at. As long as someone isn't rude, cross into my personal space, make comments, etc., I can't control their behavior and don't feel it's really my concern. I do think that I'm less likely to be stared at in a low cut shirt than I would be if I went out in modest dress with my head covered, at least in the Metro Atlanta area. Either way, though, it's not my job to worry about who looks. I don't wear anything obscene or that would embarrass my kids, and that's where my obligation to others stops. What is this new trend with mocking head-covering and/or modest wearing women in comparison to what, showy/ half-dressed women? Geez. We all make choices and none of us modest wearing gals ever ridiculed your choices. For the record, then no, the looks and stares we get dressed up is not comparable to the looks and stares you get then looking sexy or attractive. We might get hateful looks, but not desirous looks and that is sort of our purpose. I don't care if the whole world looks at me; since I am dressed and covered according to my belief-system, then their looks are notnones of sexual interest and hey, then my purpose is achieved! Please dress and coment on your own dress-code, but don't drag people into your defense who are not even targeted to read the thread. That's just plain bad style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 If a woman is openly displaying out in public, I would say then she'd better be prepared for looks. On the other hand, I believe men need to control themselves. We've had all these discussions about modesty (women's dress) but what about modesty of the eyes. That applies to both genders. Just because she's displaying doesn't mean it's right for men to ogle. Her actions don't validate his ogling... I'm thinking on this one. Janet Contrary to what people imagine, then this is the explicit stand in Islam too. So, both genders are expected to dress modestly -with women covering more since they have more to cover- but none of them is allowed to stare or look more than the first *accidental* time. Just clarifying even though I feel like I ma hijacking this thread, but hey, some might appreciate it and I don't want to feel as if I am afraid to state my viewpoint.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Look? How can he avoid it? Is anyone else tired of seeing male rumps protruding from pants sagging around the mid-thigh? I don't want to see these men's rumps on display, nor do I care to know what brand or color of under-drawers they wear. I don't want to look, and when I catch sight of them I feel mildly nauseous. It's gross. I'll be darned if I'm going to fault my husband for looking at some tacky broad squeezed into something three sizes too small and displaying 3 or more bra straps. She looks goofy. It's not sexual, it's a parody of sexuality that went beyond the ridiculous a long time ago. It's not like a man wants to see these visual train-wrecks everywhere he goes, they're just there. They're like chunks of sludge on the floor of a movie theater, you have to look in order to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm confused too. I think she meant to quote, and posted her response in the title bar. It took me awhile to catch on. I was wondering if there was one person accidentally showing two identities (which sure didn't seem like the person I "know" on here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowcat Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't think it is a big deal to look at people. I don't think it is very nice to stare at them (for any reason) in such a way that it is very obvious. I assume if a woman is provocatively dressed, she wants people to notice her. In fact, she might be a little disappointed if nobody does! I also don't think it is our job as women to protect men from themselves. That notion kind of cracks me up to be honest. I agree completely. I am responsible for what I do, including how I dress, but I am NOT responsible for how someone reacts to that. If I dress sexily, I don't mind being looked at. That doesn't make it okay to make comments or to touch me, though. I frankly think the OP's premise is false--or at least not as universal as it sounds, not once you get from looking to harassing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) What's the big deal? If my dh looks at another woman's chest or rear, it does not detract from me. It is not a reflection of his feelings toward me. If I show some skin and another man looks, I'll take it as a compliment. now, if he comments or touches - nope (course, that has never happened to me). What the man does in the privacy of his own head after he looks at me is really none of my concern. Two beautiful paintings can hang side by side and be admired by millions. One's beauty does not detract from the other. Edited October 9, 2009 by MeanestMomInMidwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 What is this new trend with mocking head-covering and/or modest wearing women in comparison to what, showy/ half-dressed women? Geez. We all make choices and none of us modest wearing gals ever ridiculed your choices. For the record, then no, the looks and stares we get dressed up is not comparable to the looks and stares you get then looking sexy or attractive. We might get hateful looks, but not desirous looks and that is sort of our purpose. I don't care if the whole world looks at me; since I am dressed and covered according to my belief-system, then their looks are notnones of sexual interest and hey, then my purpose is achieved! Please dress and coment on your own dress-code, but don't drag people into your defense who are not even targeted to read the thread. That's just plain bad style. I know we're of different faiths; however, I could not agree with you more. :001_smile: As far as the OP, whose question was: If a woman is displaying, does that mean it is ok for a man to look? Here's my answer: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. Matthew 5:27-30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 What is this new trend with mocking head-covering and/or modest wearing women in comparison to what, showy/ half-dressed women? Geez. We all make choices and none of us modest wearing gals ever ridiculed your choices. For the record, then no, the looks and stares we get dressed up is not comparable to the looks and stares you get then looking sexy or attractive. We might get hateful looks, but not desirous looks and that is sort of our purpose. I don't care if the whole world looks at me; since I am dressed and covered according to my belief-system, then their looks are notnones of sexual interest and hey, then my purpose is achieved! Please dress and coment on your own dress-code, but don't drag people into your defense who are not even targeted to read the thread. That's just plain bad style. I think you completely don't get the point. Where am I ridiculing modest dress? My point is that you can invite looks by leaving the house in any way, ANY WAY, that is deemed different from the "norm." I don't think it's the responsibility of a modestly dressed woman to keep from "offending" someone who doesn't want to see women wearing head covered. They aren't obligated to dress to a social norm and it doesn't make any comments or opinions by others their fault. You say yourself that modest dress can get negative attention directed towards it. People, not just men, will look at anything that is outside the realm of normal, whether it's a whole lot more skin or a whole lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I think she meant to quote, and posted her response in the title bar. It took me awhile to catch on. I was wondering if there was one person accidentally showing two identities (which sure didn't seem like the person I "know" on here). I'm only Imp. I have enough issues without MPD being in the mix! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I hope you don't mind but I just sent this to the superintendent and the other principals at my school (I work at a christian school and we have these mdesty debates all the time). They liked it a lot and want to use it in chapel next week! Oh gosh, I don't mind at all, but it's not original. Let me see if I can find where I heard it so you can give the right guy credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Oh gosh, I don't mind at all, but it's not original. Let me see if I can find where I heard it so you can give the right guy credit. Ok, I remembered where I heard it. It was in this presentation for youth at BYU Education Week: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=3878 (It's very LDS content, but much of it is also very relevant to Christians of other faiths. I don't know if an LDS source would be a problem at your school, but I would suggest being up front about it because some people feel blind-sided when they hear something they like and then later discover it came from a Mormon and I wouldn't want to put you off on the wrong foot with them.) Anyway, the piranha part starts at about 39:20 on the video. I've extrapolated a bit from what he said, and I also remembered wrong about the trout--in the video it's salmon. Whatever...lol. The guy giving the speech is named John L. Hilton III, but he says the "parable of the piranha" is from his friend Anthony Sweat (I have no idea whether I've spelled that correctly since I'm taking it from the audio and there doesn't seem to be a transcript listed for this one.) The speaker makes some other really good points about modest dress in there as well. Prior to the modesty part is a section on chastity in which some very good points are made, though again it is definitely directed to an LDS audience. Anyway, hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm only Imp. I have enough issues without MPD being in the mix! :lol: Once you replied I looked back and saw her title line....... Lol, all I could think of (at first) was... Impish does NOT seem like the kind of person to have an alternate identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Once you replied I looked back and saw her title line....... Lol, all I could think of (at first) was... Impish does NOT seem like the kind of person to have an alternate identity. I have a hard enough time remembering my kids names half the time, let alone another internet identity! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have a hard enough time remembering my kids names half the time, let alone another internet identity! :lol: You hear "J-And-Lu-KID" all the time over here ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevergrace Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 You can't be serious! I really thought this was a joke, after all the responses to the cleavage problem. Why would you ask the same question w/different wording? Did you read the cleavage files, people were bashing each other left and right. Myself included. Is it to early to pass the hooch? Forevergrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I have 2 boys and this is how we are raising them. It's natural to look and a glance is hard to control but stares always are and it isn't polite. We teach empathy at the same time. "Would you like people staring at you?" It's not a lesson that's learned over night but I hope, with persistance, I will raise good, respectful men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) You can't be serious! I really thought this was a joke, after all the responses to the cleavage problem. Why would you ask the same question w/different wording? Did you read the cleavage files, people were bashing each other left and right. Myself included. Is it to early to pass the hooch? Forevergrace *pulls out The Captain...you have the Cola to go with him? Who has the glasses and ice? Anyone with an extra Mike's on hand?! PS Men look whether you are displaying or not...whether you headcover or not...whether you're a plain as PA Dutch or a smoking hot mamacita. Some men just notice, others look, and a few leer. And just to be honest...women do it, too. Edited October 9, 2009 by mommaduck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretchen in NJ Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I say....if a woman is putting it all out there....then yes....don't get mad when men (or anyone) look. :iagree:Isn't that why she's wearing what she is wearing or is barely has wearing in this case?:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I don't think it is ever a good thing for a man to look at a woman as if she is nothing but a sex object instead of a person. Sure, some women may present themselves in a way that makes it extremely tempting, but decent men will try to control themselves. (I am talking about long, leering, suggestive looks here, not brief looks of interest/appreciation/sheer shock!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I don't think it is ever a good thing for a man to look at a woman as if she is nothing but a sex object instead of a person. Sure, some women may present themselves in a way that makes it extremely tempting, but decent men will try to control themselves. (I am talking about long, leering, suggestive looks here, not brief looks of interest/appreciation/sheer shock!) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I kinda think of as Look once, shame on you. Look twice, shame on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forevergrace Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 *pulls out The Captain...you have the Cola to go with him? Who has the glasses and ice? Anyone with an extra Mike's on hand?! Hey, I got tired of hooch. Just went up to Exxon and got me a "Mike's HARDER lemonade." I got an extra and am sending it your way!!! What do you know, everything looks much better, now! Forevergrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organichomemaking Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Is it okay for him to look? What happened to lowering the gaze nowadays? First look is pardoned (we're human). Second, however, different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Brief looks of appreciation or natural interest allowed. Hey, I point out to my husband sometimes, and I look too. Always thought women are the fairer sex. Dh says he appreciates a show now and then because (to him) it's so rare. We're both visual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 hmm If a woman is "displaying" (whatever that means?!) then men who have eyes that can see will see what is displayed. The seeing is not what is wrong. Good men, will see more than just what she is displaying, rather than linger only on the obvious surface of one locale on her person. Whether a man has virtue or not, is not dependent on the acts of others. It is a quality of the man to overcome his temptations, whatever they might be. (and what some woman on here considers "displaying" some men might not even register, while what someof you think modest could be a real fantasy maker for some men.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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