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If a woman is displaying, does that mean it is ok for a man to look?


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If a woman is openly displaying out in public, I would say then she'd better be prepared for looks. On the other hand, I believe men need to control themselves. We've had all these discussions about modesty (women's dress) but what about modesty of the eyes. That applies to both genders. Just because she's displaying doesn't mean it's right for men to ogle. Her actions don't validate his ogling...

 

I'm thinking on this one.

 

Janet

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Is the man single or married? Is he looking, or leering? Commenting?

 

Personally, I think its rude if a married man is gawking at another woman, especially if his wife is present. Its called self control.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm...well...abundantly blessed in the top. I've had men leer and make comments when I was wearing a sweatshirt...a BAGGY sweatshirt, no cleavage showing, etc.

 

For the longest time, that was my uniform. Baggy, baggy shirts and pants...until my husband complained. Now I wear things more fitted (not so I'm falling out) that show a bit (or hint at) of cleavage...or at least aren't so baggy as to try and HIDE my body. And I still get comments, cleavage or not. My husband and I once watched a guy narrowly miss walking into a pole because he was too busy staring over his shoulder at me :lol:

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If a woman is openly displaying out in public, I would say then she'd better be prepared for looks. On the other hand, I believe men need to control themselves. We've had all these discussions about modesty (women's dress) but what about modesty of the eyes. That applies to both genders. Just because she's displaying doesn't mean it's right for men to ogle. Her actions don't validate his ogling...

:iagree:This is exactly where I stand.

Mandy

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Not in a sexual way. The man needs to worry about his own self, and avoid contaminating his spirit with lust etc.

 

We are all free to look at eachother in public. A woman could wear a circus tent and men are still free to look at her, for that matter, so are women and children.

 

Should she be surprised to become an object of lust, catcalls, or creepy offers? No. If you are displaying yourself, then you should expect to get window shopped, iykwIm. That does not make it okay for men to leer/jeer (or women), but it does make it harder for others to feel the need to "rescue" the displayed girl from unwanted advances. After all, you have to wonder how unwanted they are.

Edited by lionfamily1999
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Men are visual. I've heard this over and over, and I do believe there is research somewhere to back that up. A man can take a glance, not even meaning to take a look in a sexual way, but the image can remain in his head.

 

So when you ask about a woman displaying, that implies she wants to display. Why? For people to look (unless it is an accident like a strap broke or something).

 

When you ask if it is ok for a man to look, I think a gentlemen doesn't mean to look, but sometimes they can't avert their eyes before it is too late. By then it is too late. The image is in their brain. Should they keep looking? No!

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Should she be surprised to become an object of lust, catcalls, or creepy offers? No. If you are displaying yourself, then you should expect to get window shopped, iykwIm. That does not make it okay for men to leer/jeer (or women), but it does make it harder for others to feel the need to "rescue" the displayed girl from unwanted advances. After all, you have to wonder how unwanted they are.

 

:iagree: totally.

 

I also think we have an obligation to encourage one another to right thinking by not displaying our wares for all to see. One might notice an attractive person, which I think is different than noticing ta-tas hanging over the collar.

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I also think we have an obligation to encourage one another to right thinking by not displaying our wares for all to see. One might notice an attractive person, which I think is different than noticing ta-tas hanging over the collar.

Of course we do.

 

I do worry about a cultural leaning towards justification for males leering, oogling, and gandering (lol, sorry Sweeny Todd reference). Sure, we should do our best to make it easier for others to behave as they should (that responsibility also helps keep us safe), but I do not believe that saying anything like, 'she deserves it' thereby implying 'let em look!' is right, at all.

 

Not to say you said that, I've just been thinking about this and the cleavage thread and it worries me for my ds. I mean, them leering/ogling/etc is wrong, period. I don't care if the woman is wearing dental floss and a neon sign blinking 'look,' I don't want my sons to trip over that block.

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Is the man single or married? Is he looking, or leering? Commenting?

 

Personally, I think its rude if a married man is gawking at another woman, especially if his wife is present. Its called self control.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm...well...abundantly blessed in the top. I've had men leer and make comments when I was wearing a sweatshirt...a BAGGY sweatshirt, no cleavage showing, etc.

 

For the longest time, that was my uniform. Baggy, baggy shirts and pants...until my husband complained. Now I wear things more fitted (not so I'm falling out) that show a bit (or hint at) of cleavage...or at least aren't so baggy as to try and HIDE my body. And I still get comments, cleavage or not. My husband and I once watched a guy narrowly miss walking into a pole because he was too busy staring over his shoulder at me

__________________

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Well, I'm the kind of person who still points out pretty girls to my husband, so I don't really care if men stare at someone who is "displaying" or not. I also don't particularly mind if someone is wearing "display" type clothing. It's up to them.

 

:iagree:

Many animals put on visual displays for the opposite sex. It's only natural to look. I try not to stare.

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Is the man single or married? Is he looking, or leering? Commenting?

 

Personally, I think its rude if a married man is gawking at another woman, especially if his wife is present. Its called self control.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm...well...abundantly blessed in the top. I've had men leer and make comments when I was wearing a sweatshirt...a BAGGY sweatshirt, no cleavage showing, etc.

 

For the longest time, that was my uniform. Baggy, baggy shirts and pants...until my husband complained. Now I wear things more fitted (not so I'm falling out) that show a bit (or hint at) of cleavage...or at least aren't so baggy as to try and HIDE my body. And I still get comments, cleavage or not. My husband and I once watched a guy narrowly miss walking into a pole because he was too busy staring over his shoulder at me :lol:

 

 

Is the man single or married? Is he looking, or leering? Commenting?

 

Personally, I think its rude if a married man is gawking at another woman, especially if his wife is present. Its called self control.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm...well...abundantly blessed in the top. I've had men leer and make comments when I was wearing a sweatshirt...a BAGGY sweatshirt, no cleavage showing, etc.

 

For the longest time, that was my uniform. Baggy, baggy shirts and pants...until my husband complained. Now I wear things more fitted (not so I'm falling out) that show a bit (or hint at) of cleavage...or at least aren't so baggy as to try and HIDE my body. And I still get comments, cleavage or not. My husband and I once watched a guy narrowly miss walking into a pole because he was too busy staring over his shoulder at me

__________________

:confused:

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Self-control.

 

If there is a $100 bill laying on the sidewalk and you know an elderly woman dropped it but didn't notice,

 

A. pick it up and give it back

b. Look around to see who is watching. Then pick it up and b1. give because you want to look good or b2. pick it up and pocket it.

 

c. take it and run.

 

Self-control--you know what is right, and you should act on it.

 

I know for my dh $100 bill is worth much more then looking at someone's books. As he says, he has his "own" to look at. However, I know he would return that bill without a doubt or second thought.

 

Men and women for that matter notice when others are not dressed appropriately. I mean come on those baggy jeans, get your attention if for no other reason then to snicker that they have to hold their pants up or are falling over themselves. However, we need to "steal" ourselves away from the thought life that could follow if we don't have self-control.

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I'm not sure where you're going with this question, but I can tell you what I am trying to instill in my son (all my kids, actually).

 

He, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. He is being taught to respect all women, no matter what they wear or what they look like. We can't control what people wear, but we can control our reaction to it.

 

I think it's been established that the idea of dressing modestly is very subjective. For some people, wearing heels with a dress/skirt is considered too seductive. There are just too many differences of opinion when it comes to modest dress. I sure don't want my son making judgment calls based on what a woman is wearing. If he does, that's his fault.

 

For me, it comes down to teaching personal responsibility. And, I'm trying very hard to do this with all my children.

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I don't think a man can help but notice if a women is putting it out there unless he's walking around staring at his feet, but yes he should have enough self control not to stare or leer at her. If a women is obviously doing her best to make her booKs a display piece and I am talking to her even I as a heterosexual female find it difficult to keep my eyes on her face, that is just where the eyes are drawn. So I can imagine it would be doubly difficult for a man.

Edited by akmommy
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However, we need to "steal" ourselves away from the thought life that could follow if we don't have self-control.

 

...about modesty that pretty much followed this train of thought.

 

I mentioned Noah's sons (the ones who backed in and covered him when he lay there naked) as possible examples of what we should do as Christians. Look someone in the eye, direct our attention elsewhere, etc.

 

Our sons aren't going to get the rest of the world to dress so that they're comfortable. They're going to have to learn coping mechanisms for scantily dressed women, because...the scantily dressed women aren't going anywhere, lol. ;-)

 

I don't care for my girls dressing in a way that bares more than I think is proper. But I don't lay down a lot of rules because I want their mode of dress to reflect their self-image, and I think that's built, not put on from the outside (no offense meant to groups who have "dress codes"; your practices illustrate your beliefs, just as mine illustrate what I embrace).

 

I have a personal belief that women/girls who are looking for sexual attention in an inappropriate way have something else going on, inside**. The answer to that isn't shaming them, it's finding out what's causing it. As a Christian, obviously, I believe love and Christ are the answers, but I'm sure there are non-Christians out there who share my view and believe that strengthening girls' self-image in ways that showcase their worth in a non-sexual sense is the most permanent, and helpful answer.

 

JMO.

 

**This shouldn't be taken to mean that I believe every woman who's showing some booK fits into this category. I have shirts that other women would consider immodest; this is referring to what I see, in my mind's eye, when someone says lots of cleavage.

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There's a big difference between glancing, looking, ogling, or leering. The first two are fine. I look (discretely) at people who are especially fit, who have a striking hair color, who are wearing something interesting, or have an unusual tattoo. Why would noticing that they are attractive or shapely be taboo?

 

Ogling or leering, however, is uninvited and inappropriate, in my opinion.

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I'm not sure where you're going with this question, but I can tell you what I am trying to instill in my son (all my kids, actually).

 

He, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. He is being taught to respect all women, no matter what they wear or what they look like. We can't control what people wear, but we can control our reaction to it.

:iagree:

 

I have only daughters so I can't say it from a perspective of raising a male child, but I think you hit the point. At the end of the day, it all comes to down to self-control.

Self-control might be challenging at times. But it doesn't mean it's a random woman's "fault" if she passess and you can't not to stare.

To cite my husband, "An animal can't help its behavior and impulses. A man can, and should, and should work on being able to."

 

Even though I personally dress rather conservatively (not out of religious reasons, simply a personal preference), and prefer other people to respect their bodies and personal space as well, I don't think I should have a problem with the ways of other people as long as they don't harm me.

Of course, now we can get into a long discussion of what "harm" actually means and whether they do harm or not, on the long run, the moral health of the society on the whole and thus me too, but that would be way off-topic. And if we got into that discussion, I admit I probably would word some things differently (as in, I don't think it's okay to walk the street scantily clothed - even though I give other people the right to do it - and I do think that on the long run more and more indifference to that, and that becoming a norm, harms the society, but I will always hold that the principal thing here is self-control, not blaming other people for your lack of it).

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I'm not sure where you're going with this question, but I can tell you what I am trying to instill in my son (all my kids, actually).

 

He, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. He is being taught to respect all women, no matter what they wear or what they look like. We can't control what people wear, but we can control our reaction to it.

 

I think it's been established that the idea of dressing modestly is very subjective. For some people, wearing heels with a dress/skirt is considered too seductive. There are just too many differences of opinion when it comes to modest dress. I sure don't want my son making judgment calls based on what a woman is wearing. If he does, that's his fault.

 

For me, it comes down to teaching personal responsibility. And, I'm trying very hard to do this with all my children.

 

Thank you.

 

Janet

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Should super-obese people, people with handicaps or large families expect to be on display due to their differences?

 

Glancing can't always be helped. Staring is rude, regardless of the circumstances.

 

Well, I'm definitely a "person of size" :tongue_smilie:, kinda disabled (Limpy from RA) and although I don't have a large family, I have a puzzling one. I'm 38, my husband is 30 but looks 20, my daughter (his stepdaughter) is 13 but looks 18, and we have a four year old. People are never quite sure how we fit together, and sometimes they have the audacity to ask!

 

I do have people stare at me for the fat/limpy combo. I've even heard people say things about me being too fat to walk, never considering the fact that maybe my illness is what caused me to become so big (years of prednisone and severe hypothyroidism). Nor do they consider the fact that they could probably just shut the hell up.

 

There was a time when I was quite the cutie pie. I was also large chested. It didn't matter if I was wearing a big tshirt and hoodie or a va-va-voom dress, I got stared at, catcalled, and treated like I was a vapid bimbo. I've even been grabbed at in public, while wearing a uniform that included a full apron. That is not okay ever.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is while it is rather silly for a woman to serve the girls up on the halfshell and then whine that no one remembers the color of her eyes, simply being pretty and/or having large breasts and wearing normal human clothes does not automatically make a woman a whore or an idiot, anymore than being fat and handicapped makes me dumb and lazy. I have experienced both of these prejudices and as often from women as from men.

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Men are visual. I've heard this over and over, and I do believe there is research somewhere to back that up. A man can take a glance, not even meaning to take a look in a sexual way, but the image can remain in his head.

 

So when you ask about a woman displaying, that implies she wants to display. Why? For people to look (unless it is an accident like a strap broke or something).

 

When you ask if it is ok for a man to look, I think a gentlemen doesn't mean to look, but sometimes they can't avert their eyes before it is too late. By then it is too late. The image is in their brain. Should they keep looking? No!

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

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I haven't read all the other responses, nor have I been following the cleavange threads, so forgive me if I'm way off base with this response.

 

I heard an interesting analogy regarding modesty of dress the other day. The man who related it told how he had been travelling in South America and his friend took him fishing for piranha. To attract and catch the piranha, the guide threw raw meat into the water. The piranha travel in schools, and would basically go into a feeding frenzy when they found the meat, and could be easily scooped out of the water with a net. The man telling the story noted the difference in baiting technique between this and the way he usually went fishing for trout in the Rockies, which requires rather a different type of bait as well as a more intelligent, patient technique.

 

The point being made at the time was that if you dress in a manner that gives others the impression that you are "raw meat", you should not be surprised when all you can catch is a school of piranha. And also that if you DON'T want to end up with a school of piranha, you should use the type of "bait" that will attract the sort of person you DO want to be with instead, because a trout will not be interested in raw meat.

 

The original question on this thread, though, approaches the issue from the other direction. If someone throws raw meat in the water, is it ok to go into a feeding frenzy? And it seems to me that the answer would be only if you want to be a piranha. If that's not the kind of person you want to be (whether you are male or female), then no, you should not. If you do behave like a piranha, then you should not be surprised if people who want trout (such as a significant other) are no longer attracted to you. Even just looking longingly at the raw meat in the water without actually "eating" any is piranha behavior, not trout behavior, and will demonstrate to others what kind of "fish" you really are. Then you can hardly blame them for remembering that there are lots of fish in the ocean, and looking for a more preferred species.

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MamaSheep-I think that makes a lot of sense. My husband was downright offended when I talked to him about the many modesty threads, given the underlying assumption that men cannot control their thoughts or behaviors. When he sees a woman dressed overly scantily he's always saying "what the heck is she wearing?!" Not "oh my, I'd better avert my eyes, lest I be tempted."

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Is the man single or married? Is he looking, or leering? Commenting?

 

Personally, I think its rude if a married man is gawking at another woman, especially if his wife is present. Its called self control.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm...well...abundantly blessed in the top. I've had men leer and make comments when I was wearing a sweatshirt...a BAGGY sweatshirt, no cleavage showing, etc.

 

For the longest time, that was my uniform. Baggy, baggy shirts and pants...until my husband complained. Now I wear things more fitted (not so I'm falling out) that show a bit (or hint at) of cleavage...or at least aren't so baggy as to try and HIDE my body. And I still get comments, cleavage or not. My husband and I once watched a guy narrowly miss walking into a pole because he was too busy staring over his shoulder at me

__________________

Hottie? Not in my opinion...just unfortunate enough to be way oversized in the chest, and to have run into incredibly crass and rude men.

Well, I'm definitely a "person of size" :tongue_smilie:, kinda disabled (Limpy from RA) and although I don't have a large family, I have a puzzling one. I'm 38, my husband is 30 but looks 20, my daughter (his stepdaughter) is 13 but looks 18, and we have a four year old. People are never quite sure how we fit together, and sometimes they have the audacity to ask!

 

I do have people stare at me for the fat/limpy combo. I've even heard people say things about me being too fat to walk, never considering the fact that maybe my illness is what caused me to become so big (years of prednisone and severe hypothyroidism). Nor do they consider the fact that they could probably just shut the hell up.

 

There was a time when I was quite the cutie pie. I was also large chested. It didn't matter if I was wearing a big tshirt and hoodie or a va-va-voom dress, I got stared at, catcalled, and treated like I was a vapid bimbo. I've even been grabbed at in public, while wearing a uniform that included a full apron. That is not okay ever.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is while it is rather silly for a woman to serve the girls up on the halfshell and then whine that no one remembers the color of her eyes, simply being pretty and/or having large breasts and wearing normal human clothes does not automatically make a woman a whore or an idiot, anymore than being fat and handicapped makes me dumb and lazy. I have experienced both of these prejudices and as often from women as from men.

I sooooooooooooo know and agree with this. Its exactly what I was talking about in my previous response.

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I'm not sure where you're going with this question, but I can tell you what I am trying to instill in my son (all my kids, actually).

 

He, and he alone, is responsible for his thoughts and actions. He is being taught to respect all women, no matter what they wear or what they look like. We can't control what people wear, but we can control our reaction to it.

 

I think it's been established that the idea of dressing modestly is very subjective. For some people, wearing heels with a dress/skirt is considered too seductive. There are just too many differences of opinion when it comes to modest dress. I sure don't want my son making judgment calls based on what a woman is wearing. If he does, that's his fault.

 

For me, it comes down to teaching personal responsibility. And, I'm trying very hard to do this with all my children.

 

I love this. Beautifully said. If there was an applause smiley, I would use it here.

 

ETA: Here you go :hurray: (Thanks Julie!)

Edited by melissel
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I say if a woman is "displaying" then she shouldn't get upset when men look.

 

Absolutely. To feel otherwise would be absurd, imo. You should not purposely go into public choosing to show parts of your body that you don't want people looking at. (Obviously things that cannot be covered up are a different thing completely.)

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I haven't read all the other responses, nor have I been following the cleavange threads, so forgive me if I'm way off base with this response.

 

I heard an interesting analogy regarding modesty of dress the other day. The man who related it told how he had been travelling in South America and his friend took him fishing for piranha. To attract and catch the piranha, the guide threw raw meat into the water. The piranha travel in schools, and would basically go into a feeding frenzy when they found the meat, and could be easily scooped out of the water with a net. The man telling the story noted the difference in baiting technique between this and the way he usually went fishing for trout in the Rockies, which requires rather a different type of bait as well as a more intelligent, patient technique.

 

The point being made at the time was that if you dress in a manner that gives others the impression that you are "raw meat", you should not be surprised when all you can catch is a school of piranha. And also that if you DON'T want to end up with a school of piranha, you should use the type of "bait" that will attract the sort of person you DO want to be with instead, because a trout will not be interested in raw meat.

 

The original question on this thread, though, approaches the issue from the other direction. If someone throws raw meat in the water, is it ok to go into a feeding frenzy? And it seems to me that the answer would be only if you want to be a piranha. If that's not the kind of person you want to be (whether you are male or female), then no, you should not. If you do behave like a piranha, then you should not be surprised if people who want trout (such as a significant other) are no longer attracted to you. Even just looking longingly at the raw meat in the water without actually "eating" any is piranha behavior, not trout behavior, and will demonstrate to others what kind of "fish" you really are. Then you can hardly blame them for remembering that there are lots of fish in the ocean, and looking for a more preferred species.

 

You are my new hero!

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