Tips for conversing with non-homeschoolers?

[Beebalm]

I finally completely understand what my dds (13 & 15) deal with all the time. At most of our outside activities (church, tennis, music, etc.), my girls are surrounded by public school acquaintances. I say acquaintances because it always seems there's a barrier to deeper friendship...they're always placed apart. They often don't understand the conversation because it's about some teacher at school, another student, a school policy, a football game, etc. and wind up just kind of standing there feeling weird. For years I've harped about how they should listen more carefully, glean info so as to be able to participate in the conversation, ask questions about their friend's interests, and TRY harder to mesh. Tonight I got my comeuppance. I just had three couples (non-homeschool) and their kids over for dinner tonight. (I'm trying to teach my kids to be more social AND I genuinely like these folks...all from church, nice kids.) However, I just spent four hours listening to them discuss the upcoming school year, the supplies and clothes needed, the teachers, the courses, how much they hated AR reading, the horrors of science fairs, band practice, the problems of motivating their kids, texting, texting, texting, and more texting, cell phones being taken up in school, some more stuff about texting......oh my gosh. I felt so unnecessary. (By the way, my kids don't text....we're dinosaurs, they have cells, I just despise what I see happening to many teens with texting. Talk about socialization issues! They don't talk..they write...continually....with no spelling....and gossip about other kids sitting right there...can you tell I have a problem with texting?) So after all that long spiel, WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR MAKING MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION WITH NON-HOMESCHOOLERS? Do I have to learn to text to fit in? How do you teach your kids to fit in? By the way, my dds are great. They have manners and are quite socially okay as I see it. But they don't always fit in so great. And I really saw tonight exactly how it feels. If I could, I'd give myself a swift kick for all the words of wisdom I've espoused over the years on this issue. I just didn't get it. The reason I'm telling all this is an attempt to come up with real solutions. How do you teach your kids to participate in conversation that continually excludes them? People don't mean to be rude. They don't even realize what they're doing.

[TheLisa]

Well, from experience, I can tell you what NOT to do.

 

Don't say "Why don't you just homeschool?" when they are complaining about some unfair policy, teacher, or homework.

 

Also, don't say "That's why I homeschool."

[dangermom]

I am around for a lot of these conversations, and I usually manage to contribute something useful, but it's taken a lot of listening and keeping up with local school issues. Happily I'm interested anyway, but it's certainly true that I end up hearing a lot about the local school. It does convince me that I prefer homeschooling--I think my friends spend at least as much energy on school as I do.

 

Last night I went to a baby shower where about 2/3 of the women there talked mostly about their kids' school (which is starting next week, and there's a lot of anxiety and uncertainty because of the budget cuts and bigger classes and all sorts of things--no one even knows teacher assignments yet). The other women were teachers, since the guest of honor is a teacher. So yeah, lots of school talk!

[Beebalm]

Thanks, Kinsa. I think that maybe I was supposed to see how wrapped up people are in their children's schooling, no matter where that might be. Sometimes I feel like the lone ranger in this homeschooling business, but tonight I realized that these folks are doing a lot of schooling themselves, whether they call it homeschooling or not. Their lives pretty much revolve around school activities. Since I often feel like homeschool rules MY family's world, it was good to see that we're actually pretty normal. And I never go to someone else's house and 'talk shop', if you know what I mean, because I don't want to appear self-absorbed. Like I said, these folks are well-meaning. But they sure taught me a lot tonight about empathy. For others and for my kiddos.

[TheLisa]

I know what you mean about the kids. I've watched my kids have less and less in common with their friends. There are no other homeschoolers in town. My kids do end up being left out of conversation or activities, not purposely. People aren't trying to be mean. They just live in one world and we live in another, isolated world.

 

On the other hand, when people actively try to include me in conversation, I get really tired of explaining Homeschooling Basics over and over!

[Beebalm]

TheLisa....:lol: Too funny! I don't even MENTION the H word! (But I sure think it ;))

 

Dangermom...how do you keep up with school issues? Do they seem receptive to your input? I understand the school start-up anxiety...I've been chockful of it for about a month now...I just thought about what they might think if I began telling them of my struggles and deliberations over texts, curricula, scheduling, financing, testing, lab supplies, which great books to tackle, motivation, etc, etc. Then they'd really think I was a little strange!

[Beebalm]

TheLisa....I know what you mean about the kids struggling for common ground. We've done the coop thing to have more exposure to other homeschoolers, but it really added a lot more stress than pleasure. We also felt it was a little contrived...we decided to just live in our 'normal' circles and make friends along the way. (It really should work that way.) The kids do have friends, just not as close and completely accepting as they'd like. You know, I think a lot of people are a little intimidated and/or mystified by the whole HS phenonemon. Maybe they don't ask questions because they just don't know what to ask. As far as basics, the only thing I'm ever asked about is whether or not I have to report to someone. (Then I go into the testing bit...they always look confused like it couldn't possibly be so simple. How could I, a mere mom handle my kids' education?!) Maybe our kids will be tremendously gracious, empathetic people and reach out more to others as a result of this life experience.

[dangermom]

Well, maybe it helps that I live in a small city? And also, I have run a program for school kids at the library for several years now, so I'm somewhat familiar with the district office and several teachers. I've lived here about 9 years now (my kids are 9 and 6) and have had time to get to know something about most of the local elementary schools (like which ones have high scores, the demographics, which have special programs like GATE or open structure, etc.).

 

When my friends talk about school, I'm sympathetic and interested--I mean, I don't have to pretend about that. I can't say that I can keep track of every teacher that gets mentioned, but I know that the guy K teacher is really great, and Mrs. K. gave little M. a pretty hard time, and so on. Right now there's a lot of upheaval and I'm interested, so I participate. It's not hard to agree with the kvetching. :tongue_smilie:

 

For example, I have a friend whose little girl is very quiet and shy in class (not at home!). She keeps getting seated next to 'difficult' kids to keep things quiet, and then she spends all her energy on that instead of her schoolwork, and she comes home exhausted and with terrible papers. I can discuss that issue as well as anyone, I guess. (If this year's teacher isn't very good for her, they will homeschool.)

 

Also, since I follow a lot of curriculum stuff, people do ask me sometimes about things. A year or so ago a friend emailed me with "The district is piloting two math programs for next year--have you heard of Everyday Math?" :scared: So I got kind of involved with that and even went to the parental curriculum review and argued with a math teacher. I was one of 3 parents who showed up, but the district had not exactly advertised the opportunity...

 

Anyway, most of these folks are very good friends of mine, and it's not like there are any other classical homeschoolers around here to be friends with. Maybe I put in the effort because I haven't got a choice! I love my friends, though, and they are even pretty good about listening to me get excited about Classical Writing every once in a while. We have lots of other stuff in common.

[Rosie_0801]

My kids aren't old enough for it to matter, but I didn't fit in at school so I'm quite familiar with the issue. I went elsewhere for conversation. There's only so much point trying to bang a square peg into a round hole, I figure. The other thing is to avoid mixing friends who have nothing else in common.

 

Rosie

Edited August 8, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[ElizabethB]

Maybe you could help out at a local elementary or middle school with some math or reading tutoring, that will give you more insight into the schools and some common ground.

 

AR is a bad thing the way it's implemented in most school districts, especially if the lists are full of books packed with sight words (and most are, and most don't include much quality literature.)

 

Here's my thread about how to volunteer, while it's written for one-on-one work, you could also teach a small class, my how to tutor page has step by step instructions that were used for a class I taught with the help of volunteers from my church.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76393

[elegantlion]

I agree it was kind of rude (even if not intentional) to exclude the hostess from the conversation. I usually try to steer the conversation toward our commonalities.

 

I can do okay until someone remarks how excited they will be when the kids start back to school so they'll be gone all day. :confused:

[LaxMom]

I agree it was kind of rude (even if not intentional) to exclude the hostess from the conversation. I usually try to steer the conversation toward our commonalities.

 

I can do okay until someone remarks how excited they will be when the kids start back to school so they'll be gone all day. :confused:

Yeah, I think this has more to do with common experience than how to engage with non-homeschoolers. In both situations, the "other" people share common ground and their conversation naturally drifts toward that. The same would hold true if you had three vegan couples and you were the only non-vegan, or three couples (or kids) from one church (that had some sort of major thing going on) and you attended another.

 

In any event, you can either throw in your insights (i.e. "wow! I often wonder how the budget cuts are affecting school families!") or you can arrange the social situation differently, more one on one, so that there is other common ground.

 

Unfortunately, as rude as it is to exclude the hostess from the conversation, it is just as rude for the hostess to dictate which topics are "acceptable". You know?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Smaller groups can help that. You simply may have been outnumbered. One or two couples may have changed that dynamic.

 

 

I know what you mean about the teens, though. Unfortunately, many teens these days are clueless on conversation and only able to text a bunch of unimportant junk. Sad state of societal affairs.

 

Take the lead in conversation and bring up a movie, something at church, or something you read in the paper. Be sure to take the initiative in starting conversation.

 

Finally, as hard as it seems, you dc will find more affluent persons with whom they can enjoy viable conversation a bit later in life. I wouldn't encourage them to be a part of the nonsense. They'll be better off in a few years when the "friend pool" expands.

 

:grouphug:

[Remudamom]

Conversing with non homeschoolers? Use small words and short sentences.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Conversing with non homeschoolers? Use small words and short sentences.

 

Not nice...but really funny (for a home schooler) :lol:

[OnTheBrink]

Conversing with non homeschoolers? Use small words and short sentences.

 

:lol::lol:

 

I have no advice for the OP. Everyone my dd is friends with homeschools, so we're very rarely around PS families. I'm sorry you felt left out in your own home. :grouphug:

[Ellie]

Empty-nesters have the same problem. :-)

 

These folks weren't being rude. It's just normal for 6 or more people who are having the same life experience to talk about that life experience, especially at such a momentous, simultaneous time in their lives.

 

You just have to enter in. "No, really? It cost that much? I had no idea! When do the dc start? DC, did you hear that? Count your lucky stars!"... and so on. :-)

 

IKWYM, though. Once we invited two couples over for supper: neighbors from across the street who had a 12yo dd, and a man Mr. Ellie worked with and his wife and their 12yo dd. They didn't know each other but we thought the dds would hit it off and all. Goodness. Turns out they had both attended the same church but at different times and they knew many of the same people, and their dds had joined some pony club or other, and, well, 3 years later the dds are best friends and *they* see each other all the time.:glare: Anyway, Mr. Ellie and I had a few moments during the meal where we just exchanged glances across the table because the others were chatting away so happily.:glare:

 

So you see, that kind of thing happens, and it doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling vs not homeschooling. It might be awward for a minute, but it's ok. You just keep smiling and comment when you can. You might even be able to turn the discussion to other real-world things if you work it right, lol.

[Brooke3193]

When you and/or your kids are "different," it can make it much easier to recognize who your true friends are. Once you find one true friend, it just clicks for you....aha, this is the type of person I'm looking for. I'd say that 95% of the time I can spend 5 minutes with a person and know if they are sensitive, caring, giving, understanding, and compassionate. Most people are not. And that's OK. I can still say hi and have a conversation in passing. But, I don't need to put in the work it takes to develop a real friendship because that will never happen.

 

I actually find it to be one of the blessings of having kids who are different....I've become friends with some really neat people. It kind of forced me to set the bar a little higher.

 

You just have to decide how much of your time you are going to give to the people who are incapable of being your true friend. (This is not to say that they are bad people. Everyone needs something different from a friend and they will surely be a good match for someone else. But, if you are "different," you need your friends to be accepting and accommodating of people who are different.)

[gingersmom]

The majority of my daughters friends are on her skating team. So she immediately has something in common with them to bond over.

 

Are your kids on any sports team? Or band?

 

All her public school friends are jealous that she is going to be homeschooled. They want me to convince their parents to let them be homeschooled.

[EKS]

You could ask questions about what's wrong with AR reading and science fairs, or whatever. That would do two things--it would get you somewhat involved in the conversation and it would remind them that you know nothing about the school stuff and that maybe a change of subject is in order. Then again, maybe not.

[Dirtroad]

BeeBalm,

If that is fitting in.... then I will stay an outcast!

 

Your kids have each other... & if you can find other homeschoolers in your area, then that might give you some extras. My kids have just learned to "go with the flow" (but they are not quite teens yet!). We do not deal with many PS kids but lots of private school kids with money & every gadget under the sun... and some have superior attitudes to go with the gadgets.

 

If you feel it is essential to have them with lots of kids of the same age..... put them in some sports or activities to give them casual aquaintances. (tennis, swimming, target shooting are all local sports that individual kids can enter since team sports are more difficult). Clubs like 4-H and Scouting offer great chances to meet kids "with common interest". The issue here is that your kids & these PS kids don't have common interests... the PS kids don't sound like they have any interest.:confused:

 

You have to find people with COMMON Ground... that is the key! (and better manners!)

 

Friendships will develop on common ground. I had some friends growing up but we lived on a farm & way out of town... I never did all the "hanging out or group things" with the others. I REALLY developed TRUE friendships in college.... we were all mature enough to know our basic interests and had so many people to meet from everywhere!

Edited August 8, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Dirtroad]

I know what you mean about the kids. I've watched my kids have less and less in common with their friends. There are no other homeschoolers in town. My kids do end up being left out of conversation or activities, not purposely. People aren't trying to be mean. They just live in one world and we live in another, isolated world.

 

On the other hand, when people actively try to include me in conversation, I get really tired of explaining Homeschooling Basics over and over!

 

Ah, are we isolated... or are they? WE get to experience a world of books, field trips, and places that they will never get! They get HUGE issues of peir pressure, all dress alike/talk alike/buy same gadgets, and don't dare think outside of the box.

 

I would say they are imprisoned in the social structure of conformity & you have the LIBERTY to be someone who can pursue any interest or visit any new idea with out the restrictive walls!

 

So.... perhaps they are ISOLATED in those walls of conformity. I would beat my head against the wall if all I could talk about was ball, texting, and how evil my spanish teacher is!:lol:

[Elizabeth Conley]

We find that it's best to have a social life that revolves around common interests. We're active in the local Republican Party, we socialize in our Civil War Re-enactment Unit, we belong to a dinner/lecture club, and we belong to a strategy gamer's club. We also attend some social activities with our home school co-op, and we do go to church.

 

We find that the key to social comfort for us is to have a wide range of friends from all age groups and walks of life. There are many social settings where we consider most of the other participants to be acquaintances or connections, not friends. This doesn't mean we think less of these people, but we don't expect much of these relationships. We simply do our best to make these people comfortable and happy, then look to our more long term relationships for the more intimate give and take of true friendship.

 

The rudest, most inconsiderate people we've ever had to cope with are the members of our previous church and our local civic league. There's really no avoiding this sort of problem. Our solution is to be gracious and kind, but draw the line at tolerating abuse. We no longer belong to either group, but we are unfailingly gracious toward them. Frankly, your dinner guests didn't sound abusive to me. It sounds like you did a good job as a hostess. They relaxed and talked about the things closest to their hearts. You did great!

 

If we were in your place, we'd simply define what we hope to get from the relationships, and whether the results we hope for are achievable. If they're your neighbors, and all you hope for are smooth, gracious interactions, then your dinner party was probably a real success. If they're people you've been friends with for decades, and your differences in lifestyle are a recent development, then perhaps you need to rethink the type of social event you host for them. For instance, if you all used to bowl together BC (Before Kids :tongue_smilie:), then maybe you should all meet at the bowling alley. If you hiked the entire Appalachian Trail together on summer breaks, them maybe you could get all the families together for camping. If these people are business associates, then it's wonderful that they had such a great time at your dinner party. Don't expect these relationships to meet your need for deeper friendship. That's rarely practical.

 

Hope this helps!