Moms & bikinis (slight rant, and a LITTLE tmi)

[AnneGabe]

Sweeping generalization. Lots of people aren't shallow, lots of people couldn't care less about what someone is wearing, whether or not they're fat, skinny, tall or short. Lots of people reserve their judgements for the person's character. Most of the men I know dislike super thin women, preferring the figures of those that have a. some meat on their bones, b. something "going on," and c. curves curves curves.

 

It's funny, because I do not think that someone deserves to be ogled just for existing. Now, if you're talking about some overly loud, overly obnoxious person, sure, they WANT to be ogled. Some mom, that wants to have a nice day with her family, not so much.

 

You had me in complete agreement but then lost me at the bolded part. Saying men prefer meat on the bones is just as hurtful and judgemental as saying women with too much meat on the bones shouldn't be in bikinis.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

 

If a thread starts with sarcasm and judgments, I'm often too busy trying to get my Speedo out of its knot to hear what is being said. This forum offers a wide variety of life experiences, beliefs, and opinions and I shamelessly try to take advantage of that when I can. I want to learn and I'm itching to ask questions. A harsh post (not you, Mrs. F, in general) shuts down the questioning process, for me anyway.

 

I would have liked to ask questions of the more conservative and modest moms but that doesn't seem possible now, given the direction this thread went.

 

 

I reread my original post, and I realize it did sound quite snarky, certainly opinionated, very sarcastic and maybe even a little judgemental. Ironically, IRL I shy away from controversy (hard to believe, huh?) and the word "harsh" really caught me off guard and opened my eyes. I do take responsibility for how this thread went and if anyone's feelings were hurt then I sincerely apologize. :blushing:

 

However, in my very humble defense please reread the title of this thread: "Moms & bikinis: (slight rant, and a little tmi)" It certainly doesn't excuse my language, but anyone could have guessed from the title that it wasn't going to be a piece advocating and supporting this latest trend. I feel that I did follow the unwritten board rules that were mentioned in a previous controversial thread and gave fair warning in the title. As I've been told (many, many times) on this thread, if you didn't like it than you could have looked somewhere else.

 

What I should have written instead is that I'm very tired of having to hide my children's eyes and ears in places that are supposed to be family friendly. The most recent incident was at the family pool, hence the snarky, opinionated, sarcastic, and judgemental remarks. I grew up going to the pool and beach all the time and I rarely remember my mother saying that someone was wearaing an inappropriate suite (and if you think that I'M opinionated and outspoken, then you probably don't want to meet my mother!) I never in my wildest dreams thought I would have to hide my children's eyes from the sight of other mothers. I mean, we're all supposed to be on the same "team," right? Unfortunately I've had to ask my kids to turn away more and more often lately. Maybe not due the particular mothers here, but with mothers all the same.

 

I will not apologize for my position that certain things are appropriate or inappropriate in certain places. (I shop at a military commissary, where if you walk in wearing exercise clothes or skimpy outfits they have the right to kick you out.) I can understand that certain body shapes and sizes make swimsuit shopping more difficult. Those people should be welcomed at the pool as well, and they shouldn't be mocked or ridiculed. However, if they are wearing something (such as a bikini) that will only make the difficult or voluptuous body shape MORE obvious, then I can also understand how other poolgoers might take note. I understand that everyone's interpretation of "decency" and "modesty" is different, based on culture, background, and upbringing. But there are still certain standards in certain places, and lately I've seen those standards ignored more and more lately.

 

I know some on here feel that they have the right to wear whatever they want, whenever they want. That's fine. But, as a wise hiver allluded on this thread, if you're going to give an opinion (or make a statement by what you're wearing) you should be ready to take the heat from others who don't agree. I don't think women will ever stop looking at other women's bodies and taking notes. That's just how we are. Sometimes we do it to motivate ourselves ("Wow...look how toned she is....I need to get to the gym!") Other times we do it to make ourselves feel better about our own less-than-perfect bodies. (You know what I'm talking about here. I don't need to give examples.)

 

So, again, I'm sorry if my remarks hurt anyone's feelings. I needed to vent, and I did it in an inappropriate way. I, too, shamelessly (usually) use this board to learn from others who do things differently than me and to get a different perspective on things. I should have asked bikini moms about their choices, rather than criticizing them.

 

Now, if swimmermom or anyone else would like to ask anything of this conservative, modest mom, I hope maybe now you feel that you can, if not in the thread than through PM.

[5kidsforME]

So obese people deserve to be gawked at if they dare to go out into public? An obese mother deserves to be ridiculed if she's wearing a bathing suit at the beach, where she took her kids because they begged her, just because that's the way it is?

 

Maybe that "reality" will become less so when people stop making insensitive posts like this.

 

Oh, and by the way, the fact that you used to be obese doesn't make it okay for you to discuss obesity like it's a disgusting illness. I used to be obese, then normal weight, and I'm obese again. I thought I'd never be here again, but geez, at least I remained sensitive to the struggle of obese people when I was normal weight.

 

Amen!!

[lionfamily1999]

You had me in complete agreement but then lost me at the bolded part. Saying men prefer meat on the bones is just as hurtful and judgemental as saying women with too much meat on the bones shouldn't be in bikinis.

? I'm not sure why that should be hurtful, but I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I was responding to the idea that men dislike women with any extra weight... I did not, at all, mean to imply that no men like slim, slender or even skinny women, simply that there are men in this world that prefer heavier women. The phrase 'meat on her bones' is one I hear very often, not one of my favorites, it's just the way I hear it put more often than not.

[Mrs Mungo]

Um....I was kidding. Just trying to lighten the mood. I've resigned myself to the fact that those on the "bikini side" will always think they are right and my family and I will just have to live with their freedoms.

 

I apologize if you felt you were being lighthearted, it didn't come across that way to me.

 

I think my mistake was attaching the word moral to the whole thing. If I had said "conservative" I don't think everyone would have been so upset.

I think taking any word and claiming it for yourself is tricky. When you start slapping labels on yourself you also label *others* as something they may not see themselves as. I know lots of moms who consider themselves *very* conservative who don't think showing their belly is against conservative values.

 

And I think if we weren't "wrapped in a cloak of anonymity" you and I might actually be friends. You see....we're also a Christian, military, homeschooling family.

Entirely possible. Like I said, I'm friends with other women who I know disapprove of bikinis. I told the story of my one friend who puts out swimwear guidelines before her pool parties. However, she's never tried to tell me what I should or shouldn't wear outside of that environment.

 

I don't like tankinis because I have a long torso. They tend to have lower-cut tops and they tend to ride up, showing my belly, anyway, in the most unflattering way possible. I'm with Tami. I wear a bikini top and a swimskirt. I'd rather show my belly than extra boob and butt.

 

I don't think moms should be "more wholesome" because they are moms. How do you think we became moms, lol?

 

I think Martha *truly* hit at the heart of this thread when she said:

that said, the age is not relavent to me. If it's not appropriate for a woman to wear a bikini then it's not - age and size is not an issue if this is a question of modesty/morals.

and this:

The notion that they are "asking for trouble" is flat-out insulting and hateful. Exactly what kind of trouble do you think a mother going swimming with her kids is asking for?

This thread hasn't been about swimsuits. It's about who has "a right" (for lack of a better word) to wear a bikini and who doesn't. That's tearing women down, judging them and trying to keep them in the box *you* would like them in.

 

Great post, Danestress.

 

I will assure you, Mrs. F, I'm not wearing my bikini to the commissary. I still don't think I'm immodest or non-conservative just because you like to label me that way. And you *do* label me that way when you call yourself "modest and conservative" and place me in opposition to yourself. As I noted earlier in this post, that is what irritates people the most, sticking labels on them that they don't claim for themselves.

[KingM]

I think Martha *truly* hit at the heart of this thread when she said:

and this:

This thread hasn't been about swimsuits. It's about who has "a right" (for lack of a better word) to wear a bikini and who doesn't.

 

I also agree. I think a damaging trend in our society has been an increasingly narrow view of what it means to be beautiful, when the reality is that standards of beauty are very subjective, and that somehow being beautiful is a virtue and not largely the result of accident.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

[quote name=Mrs Mungo;1056154

I will assure you' date=' Mrs. F, I'm not wearing my bikini to the commissary. I still don't think I'm immodest or non-conservative just because you like to label me that way. And you *do* label me that way when you call yourself "modest and conservative" and place me in opposition to yourself. As I noted earlier in this post, that is what irritates people the most, sticking labels on them that they don't claim for themselves.

 

I'm very sorry....what more can I say. I can't force anyone to accept my apology, but I do truly regret starting this.

 

Ok, I won't call myself conservative. Is it fair to say I view myself to be a little more modest because I choose to wear a suit that on my body provides more coverage? I am not labeling anyone else modest or immodest, but this is just an opinion of myself.

 

For the record, another poster said that she wanted to ask "modest and conservative" moms some questions. I put myself in that category, that's why I offered. It wasn't my intention to dictate who fell into that category...I was just using her words.

 

What more can I say? :confused: I will try to be more careful with my comments.

[SherryTX]

I don't want to turn this into a spiritual debate, but I consider myself a happy follower of Christ who absolutely believes that there are balances to every part of life. I am 5' tall and 105# and I AM a mom of 4 who wears a bikini. Is my body exactly like I want it? No, it never was. Do I have marks of childbirth? Yes, but I do have children. I don't walk around, strutting in my bikini, but I will lay out in it at the beach or a resort. I don't think there's any shame in being in a bathing suit that's appropriately worn at the appropriate place. I too have girls who I am trying my best to raise to be Godly women, but that's not just in my bathing suit that I choose. There are so many other aspects that involve raising girls to be virtuous that I can't solely nit-pick one thing. When I choose my suit I involve my entire family. We are usually all together anyway, but I try it on and let dh and my girls see me in it before I buy it. I want their opinion on it. If my girls think it's too revealing then I don't get it, but they usually don't because you can be appropriate in a bikini. I workout at least 5 days per week, I watch what I eat (with the exception of some cereals), and I always have. Just because I'm 36, a mother, and a Christian, doesn't mean that I can't wear a bikini appropriately. I just felt like I had to put a shout out for the moms who do wear bikinis, but still have morals!:D

 

I have no problem with anyone - mother or not - wearing a bikini if they have the body to pull it off. Why not?

 

I just bought a new bathing suit - a one piece - and it was really hard to find a decent one for a large Marge like myself that didn't make me feel like I was 80 years old that was decent. It is a modest one - I am very over weight after all - and I am sure that the site of my blinding white flabby thighs will scare many a small child at the pool when we go later this week. However, I think it is clear I am not trying to pull off any sexy fat momma out fit here - it is an appropriate suite for where I am going to be.

 

I think Stephanie brings up a good point - there is a time and a place for a bikini. If you have a body where you can wear one, why not? The pool or beach, or any where else it is socially acceptable to wear some sort of bathing gear is the appropriate place. Or your back yard. I would take umbrage with the ones that walk their little poodle dogs in a bikini while wearing high heels though. Those woman I do want to smack.

 

Regarding men wearing little bathing suits that most of us refer to as Speedos - what is the issue there? Again, if they have the body for it - by all means...why not? They aren't thongs or anything (which I do hate for everyone...but that is just me I guess...)

 

 

I think it is easier on the eyes - really, I think kids can see that people come in all shapes and sizes without haven't to see all of the back fat flopping around from some chick in a bikini - but I don't think it is immoral for that person to wear a bikini, but a case where a crime against fashion has been committed. But what are we going to do about the fat men that wear very modest swimming trunks but no shirts? My goodness - if my husband ever gets man boobs he will not be going to the beach without a tank top on - for the love of humanity!

 

All this being said though - I would not take my kids to a nude beach (not because I think the human body is disgusting or anything - but I don't think at their ages they could just focus on being a the beach and I don't want to put myself through all the gaping, giggling and gasping, etc. or the additional sunburn potential), but you know...if I keep shielding their eyes from a guy walking by in a Speedo or woman in a slinky bikini they are always going to view the body as something sinful to look at. Really - where does that get them?

Edited July 7, 2009 by SherryTX
To add to my tangent

[SquirrellyMama]

To the OP: Maybe they are comfortable with their bodies, warts and all and don't really care what other people think about them??

 

Great! I'm glad people feel comfortable with their bodies but please be decent. I don't need to see cleavage, butt cracks, bra straps or underwear neither do my kids or husband.

[lionfamily1999]

Regarding men wearing little bathing suits that most of us refer to as Speedos - what is the issue there? Again, if they have the body for it - by all means...why not? They aren't thongs or anything (which I do hate for everyone...but that is just me I guess...)

 

 

I think it is easier on the eyes - really, I think kids can see that people come in all shapes and sizes without haven't to see all of the back fat flopping around from some chick in a bikini - but I don't think it is immoral for that person to wear a bikini, but a case where a crime against fashion has been committed. But what are we going to do about the fat men that wear very modest swimming trunks but no shirts? My goodness - if my husband ever gets man boobs he will not be going to the beach without a tank top on - for the love of humanity!

 

All this being said though - I would not take my kids to a nude beach (not because I think the human body is disgusting or anything - but I don't think at their ages they could just focus on being a the beach and I don't want to put myself through all the gaping, giggling and gasping, etc. or the additional sunburn potential), but you know...if I keep shielding their eyes from a guy walking by in a Speedo or woman in a slinky bikini they are always going to view the body as something sinful to look at. Really - where does that get them?

I would have to say that, for the most part, Speedos are a little more revealing than your average bikini, but then, women have parts that are a little easier to conceal. I don't care if guys wear them, but I can see where some might be a bit uncomfortable.

 

We have had some 'fun things kids say in public' over a speedo clad man. MOM LOOK YOU CAN SEE HIS -----! Yeah. Good times.

 

As for man boobs..... I put that with big girl back rolls. It's a part of life, and a part that doesn't necessarily HAVE to be covered.

 

I've told my ds (dd seemed to understand this without needing an explanation), that it is hurtful to say someone does not look good, if you can't compliment keep your yap shut. The few times he's pointing out women with moustaches, men with boobs, or anyone particularly huge, I've asked him to reflect on how he would feel if it was HIM being pointed at.

 

Oh, and I definitely dislike the Miss America contestants walking their dogs... we have one that jogs, JOGS, in flip-flops and a bikini... That seems, imo, to be screaming for attention, but (shrug) it's her life.

[Ginevra]

Sheesh, the way this thread has gone. I can't believe it and I'm one of those bikini-wearing-but-otherwise-conservative moms.

 

For what it's worth, I don't feel offended that Mrs. F or anyone else doesn't like bikinis, or doesn't think moms should ever wear them. I wear them, but I know they are not for everybody. There are people who would look better in my bikinis and there are some who would not look as good, but I don't think about that at all when I wear one. I know some people wouldn't like my choice of beachwear and I am certain there are some people whose beachwear I don't like. So what?

 

To answer a question in that OP, waaaay, waaaayyy back there on page one, yes I do believe it is a trend that is more accepted now than it once was for moms to wear bikinis or other clothes that were once regarded as strictly Pre-Mom. The era of "hot moms" is quite definitely here. The magazine Brain, Child had an article several months ago entitled "The Mom Job", which noted that the fastest-growing demographic of women having cosmetic surgery is mothers in their 30's who are done having kids. Many mothers have come to feel that there is no need for their "glory days" to be all in the past because their bodies have done the job of bringing new humans into the world. I have never had cosmetic surgery, but I tend to think that way myself. There was a time when it was not even acceptable for a woman my age to have hair as long as mine is, but that era is, thankfully, over. I don't want a "mom haircut" and I plan to keep my long hair until I'm ridiculously old.

 

Just two weekends ago, I saw a woman in a bikini who looked to be in her mid-fifties or possibly early sixties. It was something of a curiosity to me and I looked and looked. She was very fit, although you could tell she was older by her skin elasticity. I really didn't know what to make of it and I thought it over a while. Should she wear a bikini? Is she too old? Ultimately, she did not mind, so why should I?

 

Anyway, I think partially because of celebrities and partially reality shows and even other cultural anecdotes (remember the Bowflex purple bikini grandmother?) have led the general tide of the nation to no longer regard mothers as has-been matrons. Lots of moms like to "still look good". I count myself as one of them, but I know it's not for everyone.

 

Can't we all just get along? :)

[AnneGabe]

? I'm not sure why that should be hurtful, but I am sorry I hurt your feelings. I was responding to the idea that men dislike women with any extra weight... I did not, at all, mean to imply that no men like slim, slender or even skinny women, simply that there are men in this world that prefer heavier women. The phrase 'meat on her bones' is one I hear very often, not one of my favorites, it's just the way I hear it put more often than not.

 

Oh no, don't worry- you didn't hurt my feelings- I'm not skinny. lol

 

And I too know many men who prefer women with "meat on their bones". It's just the way you said "most men", that's all.

A very close friend of mine is too skinny (according to her) and cannot gain weight no matter how much she eats. She's extremely self conscience about her weight and I know she'd probably be really hurt reading your response (and I really do know you meant nothing harmful by it, your response sounds like the exact thing I would've said to a thread like this last year), but after becoming aware of my friend and her body image issues I'd refrain from talking about what most men prefer.

 

Really, I didn't read your response as cruel :grouphug: just wanted to point out the chance a thin women reading this thread may have body image issues and be hurt.

[lionfamily1999]

Oh no, don't worry- you didn't hurt my feelings- I'm not skinny. lol

 

And I too know many men who prefer women with "meat on their bones". It's just the way you said "most men", that's all.

A very close friend of mine is too skinny (according to her) and cannot gain weight no matter how much she eats. She's extremely self conscience about her weight and I know she'd probably be really hurt reading your response (and I really do know you meant nothing harmful by it, your response sounds like the exact thing I would've said to a thread like this last year), but after becoming aware of my friend and her body image issues I'd refrain from talking about what most men prefer.

 

Really, I didn't read your response as cruel :grouphug: just wanted to point out the chance a thin women reading this thread may have body image issues and be hurt.

(I did qualify it with most men I know, in my defense :) )

 

I've known men and women that were painfully thin and couldn't gain weight. Ironically, I'd have to say that is a harder position than being overweight. They eat like horses (dh is like this) and people ASSUME some of the worst things about them, because they don't gain.

 

You're right, though. I was so into responding to the idea that heavy women were disturbing in swim wear I overlooked that.

[mommaduck]

Oh no, don't worry- you didn't hurt my feelings- I'm not skinny. lol

 

And I too know many men who prefer women with "meat on their bones". It's just the way you said "most men", that's all.

A very close friend of mine is too skinny (according to her) and cannot gain weight no matter how much she eats. She's extremely self conscience about her weight and I know she'd probably be really hurt reading your response (and I really do know you meant nothing harmful by it, your response sounds like the exact thing I would've said to a thread like this last year), but after becoming aware of my friend and her body image issues I'd refrain from talking about what most men prefer.

 

Really, I didn't read your response as cruel :grouphug: just wanted to point out the chance a thin women reading this thread may have body image issues and be hurt.

 

I used to be this woman. Several guy friends told me that I didn't have enough on me for their taste. I was 5'7" and 105lbs. I could stuff my face and not gain an ounce. It took lots of Ensure just to maintain weight. 8 pregnancies later, I can't get below 170lbs...though I'm down to a size 12/14 on the bottom half and 16 on the top half (to fit the books, I can't fit the shoulders or waist; to fit the shoulders and waist, I can't fit the books). And yes, being on one side is JUST AS DIFFICULT as being on the other.

[AnneGabe]

Can't we all just get along? :)

We really should, we're women though and women get emotional (like me last week, thank you menstruation :lol:)

 

I don't wear bikinis, never have, it's a personal modesty standard of mine, but when I see a woman, with what a lot of people would call flaws, in a bikini I typically admire her for the confidence it takes.

 

When I see women in many shapes, sizes, and colors at pools and beaches it makes me feel happy that my children will be exposed to ALL body types.

[secular_mom]

Great! I'm glad people feel comfortable with their bodies but please be decent. I don't need to see cleavage, butt cracks, bra straps or underwear neither do my kids or husband.

 

 

I've stayed out of this so far, but bra straps? :confused: Seriously? We can't allow people to know that we're wearing underwear? I'm thinking more people would have problems with women not wearing bras at all, than seeing a bra strap.

[SherryTX]

I used to be this woman. Several guy friends told me that I didn't have enough on me for their taste. I was 5'7" and 105lbs. I could stuff my face and not gain an ounce. It took lots of Ensure just to maintain weight. 8 pregnancies later, I can't get below 170lbs...though I'm down to a size 12/14 on the bottom half and 16 on the top half (to fit the books, I can't fit the shoulders or waist; to fit the shoulders and waist, I can't fit the books). And yes, being on one side is JUST AS DIFFICULT as being on the other.

 

Can I just say until this thread I had never heard to "the girls" referred to as "the books"? Amazing what one can learn here haha.

[AnneGabe]

(I did qualify it with most men I know, in my defense :) )

 

I've known men and women that were painfully thin and couldn't gain weight. Ironically, I'd have to say that is a harder position than being overweight. They eat like horses (dh is like this) and people ASSUME some of the worst things about them, because they don't gain.

 

You're right, though. I was so into responding to the idea that heavy women were disturbing in swim wear I overlooked that.

:grouphug: this is so me, I see a lot of my thoughts and responses in yours.

[AnneGabe]

Can I just say until this thread I had never heard to "the girls" referred to as "the books"? Amazing what one can learn here haha.

Me either! The first time I read it I had to stop and consider it for a second. Thank goodness someone who typed it put it "booKs"- the capital K clued me in :D

[Milseain]

I am still saddened at the words, ideas, assumptions and descriptions in this thread.

 

I didn't leave my sexuality in the labor room. I see no need to bifurcate my sexual side and my "mom" side. It's all me.

 

The continued emphasis on "family" pools or "pure" children baffle me.

 

I have sex. I wash clothes. I have a few paid for jobs and many paid in hugs, kisses and love notes. I sleep, participate on message boards (dowb to 2 after all these years). I write. I dream of publishing a book on parenting and cashing in the Main Event.

 

I am not responsible for keeping glimpses of my mommy body from your son or as a role model to YOUR liking for your daughter. I am not less Godly, less of a mother.

 

I am currently at one of my jobs in a polo shirt and pants; several men think I am "all that" in spite of my size, frizzy curls and age. I feel good and fine about that and my husband loves it.

 

You know, I immersed myself in motherhood and wifedom for 10 years. I might have shared some of the less extreme but modest sentiments in this thread back then.

 

Today? No thanks. I'll take my fun, flirty, happy whole woman self and be a terrific sister, mother, daughter, wife and Christian.

 

And you can keep your arbitrary standards; they are meaningless to me.

 

:iagree:

I love your post....;)

[Mrs Mungo]

Me either! The first time I read it I had to stop and consider it for a second. Thank goodness someone who typed it put it "booKs"- the capital K clued me in :D

 

That is one of our unique WTM-boardisms. :lol:

[mommaduck]

Me either! The first time I read it I had to stop and consider it for a second. Thank goodness someone who typed it put it "booKs"- the capital K clued me in :D

 

Yep: booKs, booKshelves, shelving the booKs, Tea, making tea, etc...this board definitely has it's own lingo :)

[lionfamily1999]

Yep: booKs, booKshelves, shelving the booKs, Tea, making tea, etc...this board definitely has it's own lingo :)

... but, pancakes are just pancakes ;)

[OnTheBrink]

... but, pancakes are just pancakes ;)

 

I'm really glad to hear that. I was really trying to figure out how pancakes could be a euphemism for...well anything! LOL

[5kidsforME]

I'm really glad to hear that. I was really trying to figure out how pancakes could be a euphemism for...well anything! LOL

 

 

Well sometimes booKs turn into pancakes.....:001_huh:

[lionfamily1999]

... or socks with oranges in em' :lol:

[mommaduck]

Well sometimes booKs turn into pancakes.....:001_huh:

 

I was thinking the other end LOL!

 

ball in sock syndrome is what we used to call flabby booKs. Of course some of us get the socks without the balls :lol:

[5kidsforME]

I was thinking the other end LOL!

 

ball in sock syndrome is what we used to call flabby booKs. Of course some of us get the socks without the balls :lol:

 

Well there is that too..:lol:

[HRAAB]

And I totally agree about the maternity suimsuits. Heaven help the 9 month mom who needs to pee every 30 minutes because I have no idea how they get those maternity suits off in time!:lol:

Not only pregnant women, but middle aged women who have been pregnant a few times. Now don't worry; nobody has to look at my stretch marks. I do wear a two piece with a longer top, though. If not, there are times I would be in a world of trouble.

 

 

Side note after glancing at a few of the back pages...

 

How the blue blazes did the Virgin Mary and the Roman Catholic Church get dragged into this?!:blink:

 

I don't even want to know. I mean, I don't think Jewish women of Jesus' time went swimming, did they???

 

Janet

[mommaduck]

Not only pregnant women, but middle aged women who have been pregnant a few times. Now don't worry; nobody has to look at my stretch marks. I do wear a two piece with a longer top, though. If not, there are times I would be in a world of trouble.

 

 

 

 

I don't even want to know. I mean, I don't think Jewish women of Jesus' time went swimming, did they???

 

Janet

 

Yes, some did. And it was usually in the nude. Throughout history and cultures, people have swam, typically in the nude and in segregated settings.

[wildflower]

thanks for the great laugh & yes i do agree. i'll listen to the ramones in my volvo wagon. wear tight jeans. wear way too much black clothing. but, i would never, ever, wear a bikini this side of 30 or motherhood! the only artwork i have to display comes from BF 2 kids & a low slung shirt (which are never bought that way, just happen when dd2 needs something to eat!) sorry if that was way tmi!

;)

[HRAAB]

Yes, some did. And it was usually in the nude. Throughout history and cultures, people have swam, typically in the nude and in segregated settings.

 

So, if we're using Mary or Jewish women of her time as the model to follow, we would be swimming in the nude? I'm assuming it wasn't co-ed swimming?

 

Everyday I learn something new. Thanks.

 

Janet

[mommaduck]

So, if we're using Mary or Jewish women of her time as the model to follow, we would be swimming in the nude? I'm assuming it wasn't co-ed swimming?

 

Everyday I learn something new. Thanks.

 

Janet

 

That's what I said :) In the nude and segregated (women separate from men).

 

 

 

In Rome, they eventually had to pass and enforce a law segregating the Roman baths due to scandals (and as the article stated: scandals that would have been expected given men and women bathing together with little to no covering").

[Renthead Mommy]

Well do to the fact I've had nothing really to do the past two days, I've read all the posts on this thread. Now let me say, I'm about as liberal, non conservative, live and let live, love the body you got, or do something to make it better type person.

 

But what has shocked me the most is the amount of skin people are talking about. Not the showing of it, I could care less what you wear, or how you look. I'm just extremely surprised so many people are out in the sun with so little cover. I expected this thread to turn into a "I used to do the bikini thing, but now I try to limit my sun exposure" type of thing.

 

I gew up on a lake. You had all kinds in suits. I, (and many others) still ended up in a tee shirt because your shoulders just get burned eventually if you are out there for 12 straight hours.

 

Now I've got a rashguard/UV shirt. I was wearing it, (with an old bra under, others wear a bikini top) and trunk shorts. They worked great for snorkling and gave plenty of sun cover when floating on your stomach for a few hours. And it seems like everyone in Okinawa had one as well.

 

I had cute $100 suits, that I was never getting to wear unless we went to the pool much later in the evening, and that just never happened. I also felt VERY subconcious about the rashguard and shorts. I hated how I felt about how I looked in it. But I just couldn't be out in the sun for long without it, especially in Okinawa.

 

Now I wear the rash guard, under the cute suit top. Yes it looks a little dorky. Yes some people will think it looks stupid. But you know what? I don't care. I'm not there to put on a fashion show for anyone. But it's the only way I can invision spending any real amount in the sun, and yet be comfortable in a suit that I look good in.

 

I guess I'm just surprised. It seems like we end up talking about things like sunscreen, UV rays and skin cancer and things like that so much on here. Maybe the 'non-modest, happily bikini wears, who also avoid the sun' just aren't weighing in this thread.

 

Maybe it's my two years in Okinawa. There everyone seems to wear rashguards. Even long sleeve ones to avoid the farmer's tans. The japanese are VERY into covering from the sun. It's not a modesty thing, it's a sun thing. They sell long gloves at all 100 Yen stores (dollar stores) and the girls wear them with short sleeve tops while outside (often with the fingers cut off at the palm). Especially driving in the cars. I often saw women getting into their cars, and as they got in, they'd slip on an oversized men's dress shirt backwards. It protected them from the neck line up and their arms while in the cars. And everyone wears hats. I've seen tour guides and others who have uniform type pull overs, with rashguards underneath to protect thier chests and necks when they are outside for long periods.

 

I guess in the years before Okinawa, when I had a super white young child, (along with a super white husband!) we just didn't do much 'out in the sun' stuff. We had to change that for Okinawa (or we'd never have been able to leave the house!).

 

I guess I thought the cover up from the sun thing was a huge trend everywhere. Maybe it was just OKinawa.

 

I'd love to have a bikini body. I don't. But even if I did, I'd only be able to wear it at night!

 

I actually just joined the town pool today. Tomorrow afternoon we'll probably be there. The kiddo in his rash guard and shorts (less area to battle him getting sunscreen on!) and me in my rash guard with cute suit over. I don't even have to rely on a 7yo putting suncreen on my back that way!

 

Renthead Mommy

aka - Mom to the human lobster family if left outside to cook too long!

[stripe]

I must confess that my real problem lies more with grandpas and speedos. Especially grandpas who need a bikini wax.

[Mrs Mungo]

Eliana-As always, you are lovely and don't come across as judgmental or critical. I'm not sure how someone swims in the ocean in something like the swimsuit you posted, it seems like you would constantly be dragged around by the waves. Is that a problem? What about watersports? My girls sail and surf (not as experts or anything but they attempt it!), I'm just trying to imagine how that would work from a practical standpoint. Is that a concern? I mean...I know you live in Seattle where it's cold but if you lived elsewhere. Not judging your choices, I'm just curious. :)

 

Renthead Mommy-Ah, but see in Okinawa white skin is considered beautiful. here in Hawaii dark skin is considered beautiful. Both perspectives are based on what is considered beautiful in a particular culture. Most women here wear bikinis in order to maximize their tan. Yes, we (they, everyone) still wears sunscreen because the sun is tropical and strong. We wear rashguards during certain watersports but not all the time. We often see Japanese girls on the beach fully clothed, it's as normal as bikinis. It's a diverse place. :D

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

I must confess that my real problem lies more with grandpas and speedos. Especially grandpas who need a bikini wax.

 

 

Not to pick on you, Stripe, but why is it ok for this to be said, but I can't say that bikinis and moms don't mix? You're obviously being silly, but a Speedo-wearing grandpa might take offense. Aren't you

 

judging them and trying to keep them in the box *you* would like them in.

 

Obviously the grandpas in Speedos like their bathing attire just fine, and if there are any on this board reading this I'm sure they'd have "their speedos in a knot" (to quote another hiver.)

 

I have to say....I'm a little bothered by the double standard.

[Barb_]

I never in my wildest dreams thought I would have to hide my children's eyes from the sight of other mothers. I mean, we're all supposed to be on the same "team," right?

 

That was a really nice apology that maybe should have stopped at the apology. I think the above quote illustrates the gist of the problem. It assumes too much. Mothers aren't a team at all. Each of us must decide for ourselves and our children what makes us comfortable. The only thing mothers have in common is having borne (and adopted) children. Nothing else. Mothers are not and have never been wholesome by definition. There have always been alcoholic mothers, abusive mothers, drug addicted mothers, adulterous mothers, bored or unstable or mentally ill mothers. The only difference is, nowdays we have more latitude to practice individuality, not just with our swimwear choices, but with our career choices, the number of children we have (or don't), when we get married (or don't), the type of music we listen to, our interests and our friends. You cannot make assumptions about values, taste, politics, perspective, etc and I would not have it any other way. In learning about others we grow.

 

Barb

[Renthead Mommy]

 

Renthead Mommy-Ah, but see in Okinawa white skin is considered beautiful. here in Hawaii dark skin is considered beautiful. Both perspectives are based on what is considered beautiful in a particular culture. Most women here wear bikinis in order to maximize their tan. Yes, we (they, everyone) still wears sunscreen because the sun is tropical and strong. We wear rashguards during certain watersports but not all the time. We often see Japanese girls on the beach fully clothed, it's as normal as bikinis. It's a diverse place. :D

 

No get the Japanese thing about white skin. That makes perfect sense.

 

But it's the Americans that were always in the rash guards. Truthfully the only beach we ever went to was an American military resort, so I can't say what the Japanese actually did on the beach. The gloves and backwards shirts where what you'd see out in town.

 

I guess I thought the 'protect yourself from the sun' was an American trend going on in America as well.

[5kidsforME]

That was a really nice apology that maybe should have stopped at the apology. I think the above quote illustrates the gist of the problem. It assumes too much. Mothers aren't a team at all. Each of us must decide for ourselves and our children what makes us comfortable. The only thing mothers have in common is having borne (and adopted) children. Nothing else. Mothers are not and have never been wholesome by definition. There have always been alcoholic mothers, abusive mothers, drug addicted mothers, adulterous mothers, bored or unstable or mentally ill mothers. The only difference is, nowdays we have more latitude to practice individuality, not just with our swimwear choices, but with our career choices, the number of children we have (or don't), when we get married (or don't), the type of music we listen to, our interests and our friends. You cannot make assumptions about values, taste, politics, perspective, etc and I would not have it any other way. In learning about others we grow.

 

Barb

 

Are you saying that we can't make assumptions etc. about others?

[Mrs Mungo]

I guess I thought the 'protect yourself from the sun' was an American trend going on in America as well.

 

And I think it is to some degree. Two of my kids are *white*, they take after their dad. One of my kids has my darker skin. We all wear sunscreen, two kinds even (as I noted on the sunscreen thread)! My son is *super* white. He wears a rash guard nearly all the time and often wears a sun hat. But I think a lot of that really depends on where you live. Most people in Hawaii are sun-worshipers, locals and tourists alike. It is *not* uncommon for locals to spray burned tourists with sunscreen without even asking them if it's ok, so, there is definitely some effort to protect oneself from the sun. This just doesn't translate to how much they are covered, generally speaking. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

I have to say....I'm a little bothered by the double standard.

 

I noted on the other thread that it doesn't really bother me. But again, I lived in Germany for 5 years. It's is *incredibly* normal there, so, it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary to me. Even now, we live in a very touristy place. We see triathletes, swimmers and old (mostly)European men in speedos all the time, it's not an unusual occurrence.

 

I can't see a reason to really get up in arms about knocking old men in speedos when there *aren't any here*. It is a bit different than telling a group of moms whom you don't really know that you are sick of moms wearing bikinis to a "family pool" and implying they have loose morals. Do you see the difference?

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

 

To answer a question in that OP, waaaay, waaaayyy back there on page one, yes I do believe it is a trend that is more accepted now than it once was for moms to wear bikinis or other clothes that were once regarded as strictly Pre-Mom. The era of "hot moms" is quite definitely here. The magazine Brain, Child had an article several months ago entitled "The Mom Job", which noted that the fastest-growing demographic of women having cosmetic surgery is mothers in their 30's who are done having kids. Many mothers have come to feel that there is no need for their "glory days" to be all in the past because their bodies have done the job of bringing new humans into the world. I have never had cosmetic surgery, but I tend to think that way myself. There was a time when it was not even acceptable for a woman my age to have hair as long as mine is, but that era is, thankfully, over. I don't want a "mom haircut" and I plan to keep my long hair until I'm ridiculously old.

 

Anyway, I think partially because of celebrities and partially reality shows and even other cultural anecdotes (remember the Bowflex purple bikini grandmother?) have led the general tide of the nation to no longer regard mothers as has-been matrons. Lots of moms like to "still look good". I count myself as one of them, but I know it's not for everyone.

 

Can't we all just get along? :)

 

Thank you for FINALLY answering my original question. I really think I do live in a cave sometimes. I certainly don't believe the "glory days" are over. (although I do have the "mom haircut" ) I have no problem with cosmetic surgery...to a certain extent. (when your face is so tight that you can't smile normally and the booKs are by your chin, it's time to stop.) I must have just missed the memo on the bikini-thing. I certainly won't be running out to buy one....nooooo, that ship has sailed, my friend. But I understand it a little better now. Even though I still don't agree, understanding is nice.

[theresatwist]

That was a really nice apology that maybe should have stopped at the apology. I think the above quote illustrates the gist of the problem. It assumes too much. Mothers aren't a team at all. Each of us must decide for ourselves and our children what makes us comfortable. The only thing mothers have in common is having borne (and adopted) children. Nothing else. Mothers are not and have never been wholesome by definition. There have always been alcoholic mothers, abusive mothers, drug addicted mothers, adulterous mothers, bored or unstable or mentally ill mothers. The only difference is, nowdays we have more latitude to practice individuality, not just with our swimwear choices, but with our career choices, the number of children we have (or don't), when we get married (or don't), the type of music we listen to, our interests and our friends. You cannot make assumptions about values, taste, politics, perspective, etc and I would not have it any other way. In learning about others we grow.

 

Barb

 

I agree!

 

I do think this is a difficult issue though. I want my daughter to be comfortable with and proud of her body type. I still struggle with this issue because I am worried about confidence issues. With girls today that's such a huge problem thanks to magazines and all that that give them unrealistic expectations. There are big women out there who can dress and show skin and do so with class and with confidence, whether in a bikini, or in a summer dress, or whatever. There are also people who either just completely lack a sense of what's appropriate or choose to ignore that sense.

 

In any case, you see so many young girls walking on the beach, whether in a bathing suit or in a bikini, all hunched over because they're embarrassed by their body type/ developing womanly features. I think some of the girls who wear t-shirts over their bathing suits cover also do so out of a lack of confidence. It hurts my heart.

[Leah]

Bravo! Very classy reply!

[5kidsforME]

I noted on the other thread that it doesn't really bother me. But again, I lived in Germany for 5 years. It's is *incredibly* normal there, so, it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary to me. Even now, we live in a very touristy place. We see triathletes, swimmers and old (mostly)European men in speedos all the time, it's not an unusual occurrence.

 

I can't see a reason to really get up in arms about knocking old men in speedos when there *aren't any here*. It is a bit different than telling a group of moms whom you don't really know that you are sick of moms wearing bikinis to a "family pool" and implying they have loose morals. Do you see the difference?

 

So its ok to judge people that aren't listening or aren't around? FTR I think speedos on men are gross. :D I would say that to their face too. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

So its ok to judge people that aren't listening or aren't around? FTR I think speedos on men are gross. :D I would say that to their face too. ;)

 

I don't think it's OK, it's just not the hill I'm going to die on. I'd rather argue against judging people who can "hear" you. :lol: Also, there is *zero* implication from anyone that it's an *immoral* choice which makes it different.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

I noted on the other thread that it doesn't really bother me. But again, I lived in Germany for 5 years. It's is *incredibly* normal there, so, it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary to me. Even now, we live in a very touristy place. We see triathletes, swimmers and old (mostly)European men in speedos all the time, it's not an unusual occurrence.

 

I can't see a reason to really get up in arms about knocking old men in speedos when there *aren't any here*. It is a bit different than telling a group of moms whom you don't really know that you are sick of moms wearing bikinis to a "family pool" and implying they have loose morals. Do you see the difference?

 

No, I don't. Just because they aren't here doesn't mean we have the right to make fun of them. Maybe it doesn't bother you, but a number of people on this board have mentioned their dislike of old men in speedos. Heck, there's a whole thread about it!

 

The only opinion you like is your own, and you'll only pay attention to others who agree with you. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are insulted, called "unchristian" or worse.

 

Well, I don't agree with you. Apparently you are ok with people wearing whatever they want, whenever they want. I think that's wrong, and it's my right to say so. Your insults or criticisms will not change my opinion, just like nothing I say will change yours.

 

I am tired of the double standard.

 

ETA: And for the record, talking and making fun of people when they aren't around to defend themselves does make me question their morals!

Edited July 8, 2009 by Mrs. Frankweiler

[Mrs Mungo]

No, I don't. Just because they aren't here doesn't mean we have the right to make fun of them.

 

I didn't say it was right, I said it wasn't the hill I was going to die on. I didn't engage in it and don't see how I can be held responsible for it.

 

The only opinion you like is your own, and you'll only pay attention to others who agree with you. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are insulted, called "unchristian" or worse.

I'd like you to point out where I insulted *anyone* or called *anyone* un-Christian. I think you are confusing my posts with someone else's posts.

 

Well, I don't agree with you. Apparently you are ok with people wearing whatever they want, whenever they want.

That isn't what I said at all, you're putting words in my mouth.

 

I think that's wrong, and it's my right to say so. Your insults or criticisms will not change my opinion, just like nothing I say will change yours.

I said before, you absolutely have a right to your opinion. But if you are going to state a strong opinion you need to be ready to defend it.

 

I am tired of the double standard.

 

ETA: And for the record, talking and making fun of people when they aren't around to defend themselves does make me question their morals!

And where did *I* engage in that? Edited July 8, 2009 by Mrs Mungo

[Mrs Mungo]

The suits at the site I linked (and the ones at Wholesome Wear) are designed so the skirts on the jumpers can be snapped closed for being in the water.

 

Interesting, it's good that they have lots of options!

 

I

...and I thought someone mentioned that observant Islamic women have used Burqinis when competing in the Olympics - so I assume they work well in more athletic settings.

I had not seen that mentioned. When we visited Egypt we saw many Egyptian women wearing something similar to the beach and it seemed to work fine. But those seem less loose and...err...flowy? than the other link. Thanks for the info!