elizabeth Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_holocaust_museum_shooting_suspect I think this is precisely the type of group referred to in the recently maligned Homeland Security warning . How very, very sad. The document that outlines the concerns and was used by some to agitate conservative persons into thinking they were being referenced. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:NoVMKyGOQdcJ:www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf+homeland+security+memo+on+right+wing+groups&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 :confused: The shooting is sad, but I don't understand the point of this post. My guess is to re-agitate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 We decided to go to the American History one instead. Gave me a start when I heard about the shooting today (it's all over the news today, of course). Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 :confused: The shooting is sad, but I don't understand the point of this post. My guess is to re-agitate? Oh my ,not at all my point is that when one reads the document it is obvious that those who distorted the clear meaning were doing so to drive ideological wedges between citizens . I find it insulting to my intelligence that so often both ends of the political spectrum distort and twist what a document said apparently assuming that people will not bother to read the darn thing and see exactly what it really says. To my mind there is nothing more denigrating to another person than to assume that they will not read something and come to their own conclusion . It happens on all sides of the political spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_holocaust_museum_shooting_suspect I think this is precisely the type of group referred to in the recently maligned Homeland Security warning . How very, very sad. The document that outlines the concerns and was used by some to agitate conservative persons into thinking they were being referenced. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:NoVMKyGOQdcJ:www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf+homeland+security+memo+on+right+wing+groups&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Some conservatives felt the warning missed the obvious. Like the recruiting station shooting suspect. Much less covered by the press, just as many shot, just as hateful and looney as this guy. This shooter today reminds me of certain foreign leaders we're in a hurry to talk with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. I am so sorry, Bill! :grouphug: That has to be awful :( If you don't mind, prayers and thoughts for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. Oh wow. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. Oh Bill. I'm so sorry. It must have you reeling. That is so personal. I can't imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Gosh... I'm so sorry. How horrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am so sorry, Bill! :grouphug: That has to be awful :( If you don't mind, prayers and thoughts for your family. Thank you! I appreciate it very much. I've haven't been able to reach my dad yet and it's not helping one bit. My father is one of those rare people whose decency and nobility of spirit would never allow him give up on a friend. No matter how disturbed that friend turned out to be. And Jim Von Brunn is about as disturbed a person as one could find. I can't hold back the tears thinking of how badly this news will hurt my father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I'm so sorry, Bill!:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Bill, I'm very sorry for your father and your family. I admire your father's steadfastness when it comes to friendships. I wish there were more people like him in the world. Thanks for sharing your connection, and my thoughts and prayers are with all affected. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. I'm so sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Oh my ,not at all my point is that when one reads the document it is obvious that those who distorted the clear meaning were doing so to drive ideological wedges between citizens . I find it insulting to my intelligence that so often both ends of the political spectrum distort and twist what a document said apparently assuming that people will not bother to read the darn thing and see exactly what it really says. To my mind there is nothing more denigrating to another person than to assume that they will not read something and come to their own conclusion . It happens on all sides of the political spectrum. I'm glad your intent was not to stir the pot! Sorry I misread it. :) I read that you were "sad" with the fact the memo was distorted and used in a political manner rather than the tragedy of the shooting. Such documents should never be published with the implication that one particular group is being watched over. Government can never watch all members groups such as this, especially given that they are a bunch of similar-minded but extremely fragmented individuals or small groups under one generalize name. It also places more focus on just one group, rather than having society be cautious about any unusual activity...which in turn can become misplaced false security and unnecessary stereotyping. And it makes the media go overboard, which gives me hives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Oh Spy, (said with affection), I'm so sorry. I'm glad you can offer support to your df. Wow--this is the third time in as many days that I've been shown connections between people in surprising ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Bill, I'm very sorry for your father and your family. I admire your father's steadfastness when it comes to friendships. I wish there were more people like him in the world. Thanks for sharing your connection, and my thoughts and prayers are with all affected. :grouphug: My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I can't hold back the tears thinking of how badly this news will hurt my father. I'm truly sorry Bill. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Thank you to all for the kind words. I finally reached by father, and not that he took the news "well" but better than I had feared. But I'm sure these kind of shock take awhile to process. My father was friends with Jim Von Brunn all through childhood and they were fraternity brothers in college. And he popped up. Usually in crazy ways. Jim went to prison for carrying a gun into an attempted "citizens arrest" of the Federal Reverse Board and served 6.5 years in a Federal prison. He was (is) a dangerous person. He used to send "hate-packages" of his writing to my father (who would be absolutely mortified). I guess my father wasn't entirely surprised, but deeply saddened. He did a lot of recounting of when they were young, and Jim Von Brunn for all the world appeared to be a handsome, healthy, leader among men. What goes wrong? I do not understand what makes people hate. This man, unfortunately, is lost in his hatred. What a shame. Bill Edited June 10, 2009 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Thank you to all for the kind words. I finally reached by father, and not that he took the news "well" but better than I had feared. But I'm sure these kind of shock take awhile to process. My father was friends with Jim Von Brunn all through childhood and they were fraternity brothers in college. And he popped up. Usually in crazy ways. Jim went to prison for carrying a gun into an attempted "citizens arrest" of the Federal Reverse Board and served 6.5 years in a Federal prison. He was (is) a dangerous person. He used to send "hate-packages" of his writing to my father (who would be absolutely mortified). I guess my father wasn't entirely surprised, but deeply saddened. He did a lot of recounting of when they were young, and Jim Von Brunn for all the world appeared to be a handsome, healthy, leader among men. What goes wrong? I do not understand what makes people hate. This man, unfortunately, is lost in his hatred. What a shame. Bill I feel awful about this. Is it true that Von Brunn is a decorated WW2 veteran? Could some kind of damage from the war have started him on this awful path? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I feel awful about this. Is it true that Von Brunn is a decorated WW2 veteran? Could some kind of damage from the war have started him on this awful path? I know he commanded a PT Boat. But I think his disturbances began before the war. My father recalled him making threats against the British should anything happen to another fraternity brother (who went to war shortly before Jim and my father did). The fraternity brother was (of course) going off to fight the Germans and aid the British. No matter. I think the madness had already begun (if it wasn't fully understood). Jim Von Brunn was German (as was my Grandmother's side of the family, but we carry an English family name) and was part of the St Louis German community. I think somewhere during the depression as Hitler rose to power he began to fall for appeals to German pride and Nazism. And being named Von Brunn didn't help as the showdown (and eventually war) with Germany came to pass. But there were lots of Germans in St Louis and across the nation who didn't fall for the evils of Nazism. Why him? That I don't know. It is strange. I was looking through family albums recently with my family and the Von Brunns out on camping trips, by the lake, fishing, boating. It looks so normal. But how does one go so wrong? Edited June 10, 2009 by Spy Car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Bill, I'm really sorry. No other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heart'sjoy Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 It's perhaps even harder watching someone dear to you take a heavy blow in an area of their life you greatly admire. I've watched this with my father too. Why is there such suffering? How do we get intwined in a hate-filled mental illness? This is one of the most important questions in life to grapple with.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Bill, I am so sorry that this tragedy has touched your family in a deeply personal and painful manner. There are some things that we can never understand . I am glad your father chose to continue to show compassion and mercy for his old friend . What a painful and tragic day for many people. elizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Oh Bill. My heart is just aching for you and your family right now. I wish I had the answers to your questions. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Now comes the dreadful news that a security guard, Stephen T. Johns, was killed in this attack. If there was any consolation in this terrible ordeal, it was that no one was killed. Now that is gone. I'm heart-sick :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Oh Bill...I am so sorry for you and your father. There are some things in this world that I will never begin to understand. :grouphug: Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Oh Bill...I am so sorry for you and your father. There are some things in this world that I will never begin to understand. :grouphug: Jane Thank you Jane. I just spoke with my father again. Those old friends from St Louis who are still living have been in contact, and the news of the death of the security guard had reached him. The initially "calm" reaction has (as I feared) begun to wane. It's hard to hear ones father sob. I knew this would be hard on him. I thought for a moment it might be less bad than I imagined. But I know him well. This will be very difficult. And I can't imagine what the family of Stephen Johns is going through. I wish there was something I could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Bill, I'm so sorry for you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUV2EDU Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 I am in a state of shock! Jim Von Brunn (the shooter) and my father were best friends in childhood. His parents and my Grandparents went on vactions together and were the closest of friends. I've met Jim Von Brunn. Unfortunately is is a deeply sick man. A violent racist and anti-semite with an infirm grip on reality. How am I going to tell my father? This news will break his heart. He always left a window open for Jim (while telling him how wrong his thoughts were) and tried to let the love of their early friendship though. This is going to be devastating news. In my own way I'm praying for the people who were shot. What a tragedy, and one that is too close to home. What makes people hate so? I'm in tears. Sorry to hear this.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Some conservatives felt the warning missed the obvious. Like the recruiting station shooting suspect. Much less covered by the press, just as many shot, just as hateful and looney as this guy. This shooter today reminds me of certain foreign leaders we're in a hurry to talk with. Bingo. There are actually quite a few of us who DID read the document and still considered it distorted in itself. I especially thought it did a darn poor job defining the ILLEGAL immigration issue and leading readers to believe it was simply an IMMIGRATION issue. Divisive? That document had DIVISIVE written all over it. Almost literally. and then we come back to looking at who's REALLY in the top ten most wanted and the disparity between RW and LW terrorism alerts: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95593&highlight=fbi "non-violent cyber attacks" my a$$. drive ideological wedges between citizens indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Thank you to all for the kind words. I finally reached by father, and not that he took the news "well" but better than I had feared. But I'm sure these kind of shock take awhile to process. My father was friends with Jim Von Brunn all through childhood and they were fraternity brothers in college. And he popped up. Usually in crazy ways. Jim went to prison for carrying a gun into an attempted "citizens arrest" of the Federal Reverse Board and served 6.5 years in a Federal prison. He was (is) a dangerous person. He used to send "hate-packages" of his writing to my father (who would be absolutely mortified). I guess my father wasn't entirely surprised, but deeply saddened. He did a lot of recounting of when they were young, and Jim Von Brunn for all the world appeared to be a handsome, healthy, leader among men. What goes wrong? I do not understand what makes people hate. This man, unfortunately, is lost in his hatred. What a shame. Bill :( Oh that is so tragic!! I'm so sorry for you and your father. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Bingo. There are actually quite a few of us who DID read the document and still considered it distorted in itself. I especially thought it did a darn poor job defining the ILLEGAL immigration issue and leading readers to believe it was simply an IMMIGRATION issue. Divisive? That document had DIVISIVE written all over it. Almost literally. and then we come back to looking at who's REALLY in the top ten most wanted and the disparity between RW and LW terrorism alerts: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95593&highlight=fbi "non-violent cyber attacks" my a$$. drive ideological wedges between citizens indeed. Goodness. First I agreed with nestof3 on a couple of issues, now I'm agreeing with Peek. The world is a strange place. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Goodness. First I agreed with nestof3 on a couple of issues, now I'm agreeing with Peek. The world is a strange place. don't worry, we'll part ways soon enough, I'm sure.... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Much of the "reports" controversy also involved the refusal to call many muslim terrorists by the name terrorists.... but then turned and used the word on prolifers, right to bear arms, and other conservative collared groups. Hate is hate... without a right & left. The "report" only looked to the right and tiptoes around the terminology for the left. That brought out a huge cry of bias & corruption of Ms. Napolitano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Rev Wright isn't helping either. http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1619011,w-jeremiah-wright-obama-jews-zionist-061109.article Now Zionists are controlling Obama. :001_rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Much of the "reports" controversy also involved the refusal to call many muslim terrorists by the name terrorists.... but then turned and used the word on prolifers, right to bear arms, and other conservative collared groups. Hate is hate... without a right & left. The "report" only looked to the right and tiptoes around the terminology for the left. That brought out a huge cry of bias & corruption of Ms. Napolitano. I completely agree. The fact that only American citizens can be called 'terrorists' is extremely disturbing. The whole thing was really disturbing... not to mention the fact that our Federal government can hop right past our local governments and give OUR police warnings against us. Granted, most of the cops out here fall into the possible terrorist catergory, so we weren't too concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Bill, I am so sorry. It is always so tragic when something happens, and we think about triggers and where it all went wrong. It seems to me, you are the nicest, most peaceful guy and this has to be a horrible shock to you and your family. My prayers to you and your family, may God grant you serenity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hate is hate... without a right & left. Too True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Rev Wright isn't helping either. http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1619011,w-jeremiah-wright-obama-jews-zionist-061109.article Now Zionists are controlling Obama. :001_rolleyes: I missed that, and it happened right in my back door at the Hampton Minister's conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.