Bad Mom Alert: Kids self checking math and...well...please read and advise

[battlemaiden]

I haven't checked my 10yo sons math-work in a while. He is generally responsible and likes math, so it hasn't been on my radar. I have had an active radar lately.

Today I decided to get caught up and what I found in his math book was surprising and disappointing.

 

He hasn't been completing his assignments, and worse, he's been grading them as correct. I flipped through probably 3 weeks worth of workbook pages that were incomplete and marked with check marks. :glare: What was this kid thinking?!

 

:001_huh:

 

He's not a deceptive type of child. I have seen deceptive, and he would be the last of my children I would suspect. He isn't a perfectionist, so I wouldn't suspect fear of failure as the root cause. I think he has just been lazy.

 

My mind is whirling with consequences, but I thought I'd come here and ask if anyone else has seen this and dealt with it successfully...before I pop off and act rashly. :)

 

Thanks for your collective wisdom and help.

 

Jo

[Sophia]

Btdt. This very thing happened with my second dc who is by far the most honest child I have ever known.

I was soooo upset with her when I discovered what happened, and she was also crying and truly repentant.

After discussing it with dh, he felt I had placed a strong temptation in her path, and while she should have known better, I should not have given her so much freedom.

I never expected that from her as she is my obedient, people pleasing, compliant angel...but as dh said, she' s just a kid who saw an easy way and took it.

We did not give her a consequence as we saw she was truly, truly sorry.

I grade all her work now and we have assured her that we will not hold this against her, iow~we don't believe she is untrustworthy in all areas, but she can expect us to keep her accountable by regularly checking up on her (hope that makes sense.)

[Nestof3]

When Aaron was in public school in the second or third grade, he had to read a picture book and answer some questions in multiple choice format. When I checked it, none of his answers made any sense. When I pressed him on it, he admitted he had never read the story, just circled some answers.

 

I personally have always checked my children's work. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I'm just explaining why. First, school is just not that interesting for children. It's like a chore. I check my children's beds and such to make sure they have done what has been required. I just don't think at 10 that they are responsible enough to carry through for a long period of time without checkin up on.

 

I also think that giving a child the answers allows them to easily write their correct answer in without giving much thought to why a problem is wrong. See, in math, I think children learn a lot from their mistakes. They learn a lot in the process of figuring out a problem, and they learn to recognize problems they continually miss.

 

More importantly, you recognize problems they continually miss so that you can reteach as necessary. Math is one of those things that is very hard to recover from if one gets behind. I would check math work daily.

 

Now, from here on, I wouldn't stress either you or your son out over it. But, it will take some time to get him back where he needs to be.

[JFSinIL]

A sudden pop quiz on the material is in order ;)

 

If he does not do well, gee, why is that? Guess no tv (or whatever) until you study enough to redo the quiz. Maybe should have done the work in the first place.

 

And keep an eye on the work from now on.

[stripe]

I used to think it was fun to use a red pen, and marking like a teacher does seem fun. Maybe he thought it was pretend time, instead of trying to deceive you. Just a thought.

[Remudamom]

I think that's too young for that much responsibility. Mine all check/do/whatever their own work, but they're 14 and up now, and it's working well.

[Delighted3]

with different children over the years. I have also discussed with friends who have tried it. In my experience it does not work with most children. The temptation is just too great to take the easy way out. Also, I think it is valuable to the learning process for someone else to give the child feedback on his work and for him to have to go through the process of correcting things that are wrong, especially in math. As a Mom, I wish it could work because, boy do I get tired of grading math. I guess that is why every couple of years or so, I give it a try:001_smile:

 

As far as consequences, you could double his math work until he has made up what he didn't do or you could deny activities until he is completely caught up. I would decide on a consequence (probably not too severe) and then chalk the whole thing up to a lesson learned for both of you.

Joy

[Nestof3]

with different children over the years. I have also discussed with friends who have tried it. In my experience it does not work with most children. The temptation is just too great to take the easy way out. Also, I think it is valuable to the learning process for someone else to give the child feedback on his work and for him to have to go through the process of correcting things that are wrong, especially in math. As a Mom, I wish it could work because, boy do I get tired of grading math. I guess that is why every couple of years or so, I give it a try:001_smile:

 

As far as consequences, you could double his math work until he has made up what he didn't do or you could deny activities until he is completely caught up. I would decide on a consequence (probably not too severe) and then chalk the whole thing up to a lesson learned for both of you.

Joy

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Samiam]

I had a similiar situation with DS10. He does math with Teaching Textbooks, so I really don't pay too much attention to it because it self-checks/grades, and I can look at the grades at any point. I ask him daily what his grade was, and then I check every week or so myself.

 

Well, he had a chapter quiz...was really struggling, ended up with a 73. I am wondering how that is possible when he got all 95's or better on the lessons?????

 

WELL, here is what happened. Earlier in the year, we had made a deal on the amount of problems he had to work. I agreed to every other problem, because I knew that out of the 20-30 problems per lesson, it was usually 2 of this kind, 2 of that kind, 2 of this kind, etc...so if he did every other, he would get at least one of every type. And the agreement was, if he got one wrong, then he had to do the next one as well to make up for it. Fine. Well, I went back to look at his lessons for this chapter, and come to find out, he took it upon himself to do just the FIRST half of the problems, instead of every other. The problem lies in the fact that many of the first problems in each lesson are reviews of previous chapters. So that means you mostly did review problems, and very little problems from this actual chapter. No wonder you had no clue on the chapter test.

 

I wasn't mad, really. I kind of thought I should have known better. It's not that I can't trust him. I think it is more that they are at this age where it's natural to kind of push the lines to see what happens, how we will react, but not even so much to be naughty, but just kind of how their mind is working. Just kind of a "pre-teen boy thing".

[katemary63]

After discussing it with dh, he felt I had placed a strong temptation in her path, and while she should have known better, I should not have given her so much freedom.

I never expected that from her as she is my obedient, people pleasing, compliant angel...but as dh said, she' s just a kid who saw an easy way and took it.

 

Exactly what happened to us. My MOST trustworthy child. Not only that, she did it three times over the years. You'd think I would learn huh? But the thing is, it just isn't her responsibility and I should never have left it to her. Especially AFTER the first incedent. Mom's need to correct, if not everyday, at least every week, even up into high school, in my opinion. I learned that the hard way. I never held it against my DD, she just wasn't ready for that responsibility and I should have known it. Don't feel bad, it has happened to most of us I think. Just live and learn, don't punish the kid, just make him start over at where you know he did the work honestly and take it from there.

[Starr]

Even SWB talks about this. He isn't the first. I'd laugh and get back on track. :)

[PollyOR]

Yes, it was also my most trustworthy child. She was doing R&S math which has a lot of problems. She was overwhelmed and started copying answers without doing the work. I suspected it when I found the correct answer on a test that could not have been worked in her head. She was very scared when I figured out she was cheating.

 

I took the away the temptation/answer books and lessened the # of problems she needed to complete. Being ashamed and scared seemed to be punishment enough.

[newlifemom]

I have/am doing this with dd 10. However, 1-she is working at the table across from me. 2-she shows me her work at the end of the day. 3-I correct the tests. It has taken me a while to work out a system that satisfies my needs(I have 2 first graders that take up most of my morning) and doesn't put too much temptation to cheat/not do the work fully/give up. Plus I like to think that I have taught her, and I truly feel that she gets it, it isn't about getting them all right. It is about learning. Now my younger two? I don't know if I will ever let them correct their own stuff. :lol: Different children you know.

[Christine]

Well, I've had this happen a couple of times. . . and apparently, I'm not near as nice as many of you.

 

I make the child go back to where I perceived the first offense, and they have to start from scratch. To top it off, I generally, have more work available to me to give as extra "re-enforcement", and I hand it out rather liberally (in this instance I have a math worksheet program).

 

Then, they also get grounded for cheating / lying.

 

This happened with each of my older boys when they were about 10-ish. I haven't had a repeat (thankfully).

 

Now, our older boys have remarked that I'm ever so much "nicer" to our younger set (they claim "age, and I "wisdom"), so we shall see what happens when / if they hit that stage.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Exactly what happened to us. My MOST trustworthy child. Not only that, she did it three times over the years. You'd think I would learn huh? But the thing is, it just isn't her responsibility and I should never have left it to her. Especially AFTER the first incident. Mom's need to correct, if not everyday, at least every week, even up into high school, in my opinion. I learned that the hard way. I never held it against my DD, she just wasn't ready for that responsibility and I should have known it. Don't feel bad, it has happened to most of us I think. Just live and learn, don't punish the kid, just make him start over at where you know he did the work honestly and take it from there.

 

JO you are not alone and apparently (thank goodness) neither am I.

When I discovered she had been writing 2 or 3 word answers in geography, I did have her begin the book again half way through the year. The I noticed in Daily Grams she had skipped stuff pretty much daily so I went back and added skipped stuff to daily assignments.

We had had a long discussion about what my expectations for 7th grade were and full and complete sentences were part of the deal.

I chose to have her redo because she knew the consequences for what she had chosen to do. I told her if it wasn't her best that she was going to do it over. So, we won't finish "on time" but natural consequences to poor choices will hopefully make an impression.

And, once again, we are back to my checking everything, daily, just to hold both of us accountable.

[MamaT]

This happened to me as well. It was years ago, and I made my son start back where I knew he had learned the material. He got to do math all summer. He has always been my most compliant child and is very sensitive, so the shame of getting caught and my disappointment (along with doing math all summer:001_smile:) was punishment enough.

 

I never, never let anyone check their own math anymore. I do it daily so that we catch it quickly if they do not understand something.

[Janice in NJ]

I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. It's a bummer. But it's all part of the parenting process.

 

Don't freak out.

 

Find a way to address the issue without letting your emotions get the best of you. (You'll be a step ahead of me! :001_smile:)

 

And make a mental note that this little man needs a net. My kids certainly did - and STILL do. I've mentioned this before - If I knew that someone was going to SEE the bottom of my bedroom closet, I might be inspired to clean it up. But the heaps are crammed in the back because no one is checking. And if someone did see it, I would be overflowing with allllllll kinds of excuses - defense, defense, defense - I can hear them in my head even though I know that it's LAME! :001_smile: Weak huh? How many of the bits would slide off our plates if we knew that no one (not even our kids) could see us? Learning how to do what we must even when we don't want to is a life-skill. Takes a while to learn and even I don't do everything that I know that I should every time. I've learned how to handle the big stuff. I'm training my kids; they'll figure it out too - eventually. :001_smile:

 

Keep on parenting! It's the toughest part of this job. :001_smile:

 

PEACE!

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[charmama4]

I thought just giving my boys the solutions manual after doing their assignment to check their work would be alright. Well, it's not that they weren't being dishonest, it's just *easier* to just erase and put down the correct answer instead of working the problem out again.

 

I realized they weren't really learning anything so I change it up on them. They now do their assignment, I check it by circling the wrong answer, they re-work their problems by referring back to the lesson (we use Saxon) then we sit down and they tell me their corrected answer. If they get the answer right we move on. If the get a corrected answer still wrong we go over it together.

 

I may change it up again next year and have them correct each others assignments then I'll go over it with them individually. I think kids still need accountablity and ease into some independence when integrity has been learned. I don't believe your DC is being dishonest just showing that he still needs to show some accountablity, just my humble opinion.

[Frontier Mom]

Yep, I am also a member of this club. Now I either check their math myself or have them check each others. If I am behind, I let them check each others and, since my guys are very competitive, they love to miss less than their brothers.

[Cedarmom]

I think he is too youg to self-check. My son (17)now self check his latin. He has never self checked Latin.However, I still look at his notebook weekly, and make sure he has done the corrections he needed. When you do allow to self correct, they need to know mom is still going to look at their work. Otherwise, it is too tempting .

[Garga]

I love this board. My ds's are 6 and 4 and now I know how to avoid this problem in the future. I love this board!!

[bkpan]

In fact, we are at this moment catching up on several spelling tests that were supposedly completed weeks ago.:glare: And, I have btdt with my other kids as well, sad to say. And yes, I do think that it is my own fault for not staying on top of things better. So, I will go back to checking the dcs work on a daily basis. I do require my dc to catch up the work. As they spend their weekend here in the house working on school, instead of playing soccer, they will feel the pain. :D

 

Kim

[Nestof3]

I thought just giving my boys the solutions manual after doing their assignment to check their work would be alright. Well, it's not that they weren't being dishonest, it's just *easier* to just erase and put down the correct answer instead of working the problem out again.

 

I realized they weren't really learning anything so I change it up on them. They now do their assignment, I check it by circling the wrong answer, they re-work their problems by referring back to the lesson (we use Saxon) then we sit down and they tell me their corrected answer. If they get the answer right we move on. If the get a corrected answer still wrong we go over it together.

 

I may change it up again next year and have them correct each others assignments then I'll go over it with them individually. I think kids still need accountablity and ease into some independence when integrity has been learned. I don't believe your DC is being dishonest just showing that he still needs to show some accountablity, just my humble opinion.

 

This is EXACTLY what we do.

[katilac]

Honestly, I think that my 'consequence' would be having to go back and do the work, having to do some extra each day to catchup. I'd try not to let my frustration and disappointment get the better of me.

 

I have a very responsible, honest 10-yr-old (we're always joking that she's ready to move out and get her own apartment), and it would never occur to me to go 3 weeks without looking at her math - - self-teaching and self-correcting for long periods of time is too much to expect of a child that age, imo. Believe me, sometimes I fall into the trap of expecting way too much from her, and I have to remind myself that, while it's mighty convenient for me when she acts like a mini-adult, she's still just a kid and entitled to act as such.

 

On the math issue in particular, even if a student can be trusted to self-correct, it's very important for us to see what problems are being missed, is there a pattern, etc.

 

So, yes, you need to correct the situation, he needs to complete the work, but I wouldn't approach it in a punitive way at all.