The turkey I served for 2012 Thanksgiving had been in deep freezer since November 2011. No one had anything but compliments. Usually if the price is low enough, I stock up on a year's worth of turkeys in November.

You've always been lovely at any size, Renee.

I think that the stars are supposed to be given based upon quality or relevance of the thread content, not as a measurement of personal feelings toward other members.

Pdalley, my children and I had a discussion recently about the impact of changes in social policy for dealing with severe mental illness, particularly those cases where people live in fear of their mentally ill loved one. Do you believe that we should reopen more of the closed state mental hospitals and relax the standards for involuntary commitment? All of us were leaning in that direction but our concern was whether the horrific abuses of past would crop up again and how to make certain that the hospitals were truly treatment centers, not human warehouses. I wonder how these cases are dealt with in the universal healthcare systems of westernized countries. ETA: Sorry, did not intend hijack. Should have started new thread.

:iagree: Also, I get a little nervous when there is talk of government intervening in family size control (either direction) beyond assistance to offset costs of raising children and access to affordable family planning methods. It NEVER bodes well for women. Perhaps this thread boils down to people have more choices than ever before, and some people disagree with other people's choices.

Sadly, I see.

It would be normal for my family's culture in regards to buying holiday gifts.

Wonderful! I always a good bargain find story.

I do not understand why there is concern about "fertility collapse" in the U.S. which has an all time high population of 311 million.

I don't know what is inherently admirable either way about the number of children a woman has. The number of childrent does not necessarily correlate to the quality of family life.

I do not understand. If anything, recent legislation has limited women's access to birth control. Are there public or private assistance programs that require a recipient use birth control? Birth control gives us choices that our female ancestors did not have. Is it that you are disappointed with the choices women make?

A food treat is consumable and leaves no clutter. Homemade would be even better.

I used NFP for seven years and generally was content with it until it became increasingly difficult to read fertility signals due to certain changes in body as I aged. However, I knew quite a few women who allegedly used barrier methods if they decided to have relations during fertile times. Without getting graphic, others managed to have physical relations in a manner that would not result in pregnancy. NFP is wonderful for teaching about the awareness of the body's fertility; my own daughters learned it in homeschool health class even though it may not ultimately be their choice of contraception. Of course fertility control methods fail. Not much in life is a certainty. Birth control fails when it is used conscientiously but a pregnancy results anyway. Assuming a woman does not desire pregnancy, using bc once in awhile or not at all and hoping for luck is carelessness and would not be considered an accident. However,I do not think anyone should be inquiring whether a pregnancy was intended or not except a healthcare provider. Frankly I am grateful that women now generally have access to family planning methods so they do not have to be celibate or have to limit their sexual activity to acts that will not result in conception. I was born into a time and place where women did have to abstain from physical intimacy to avoid pregnancy. Nowadays women with health problems for whom a pregnancy would be dangerous can continue to be sexually active with their husbands. Women who for any reason don't want to conceive can continue sexual activity if they desire with a low probability of conception. Most people do not cease driving because of they want to avoid serious auto crash at all costs. In a country where widespread public transportation is not available, they prepare by learning driving skills, getting licensed, not driving while impaired, not driving in inclement weather, etc. I suppose they could bike or walk to work but that is not always feasible either. Life is risky. People having children they cannot afford? As I said earlier, the human reproduction system functions regardless of the responsibililty level of the couple involved. Who in their right mind would not prefer that children are born into families who can meet their basic needs for love, nutrition, shelter, and education? The couple are the ones who have to deal with the stress (and rewards) of unintended reproduction. Frankly I do not fret about whatever public assistance a child born into struggling family uses. I do not consider that government waste but rather an investment in our future.

Using birth control is common sense if you do not want a pregnancy yet wish to continue in a non-celibate marriage.

Have you considered having your child volunteer at a local animal shelter or humane society? Our humane society has volunteers who work to socialize semi-feral kittens and walk dogs. Don't bunnies, ferrets, and chincillas all need large cages plus outside-the-cage time? We had two bunnies in a tri-level cage that was 5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. One of them chewed baseboards terribly during his out of cage time even though he was supplied with toys and boxes for play. I babysat a ferret once and overall the experience was negative because it was a biter/scratcher. I have no experience with chinchillas except that I know they're awfully cute.

I clicked on the smiley but the icons do not appear so picture an "I agree" placard held by a round yellow head. Re food stamps. There is more than enough humiliation built into the acquisition process itself. If a person qualifies according to government standards and purchases only what is allowed, then they have followed the rules. I do not know for certain, but I am guessing that the food stamp may provide recipients with nutrition tips and cooking tips. However, many struggling families do not have the discretionary time, knowledge, facilities, or backup funds to purchase in bulk and cook from scratch to cut costs. Whether they buy soda or cake just seems like too minor a thing to raise much concern. Most people on food stamps do indeed work, often at two or more jobs just to make ends meet. Many of soldiers with families qualify for food stamps. Even if the recipients are not employed, in this harsh economy, the willingness to work hard does not always transpire into a job.

Marriage can provide warmth, closeness, and many more benefits besides childbearing. You seem to be advocating celibate marriages unless a pregnancy would be welcome. Personally I appreciate the scientific advances in contraception, including NFP and surgical sterilization, that allow fertile humans to still enjoy benefits of physically intimate relations but have some semblance of control over their family size. I guess in the end it all comes down to risk management and what level of risk one is willing to undertake. Some forms of birth control allegedly can provide up to over 99% contraception rate. There is a wide continuum between uncontrolled fertility and abstinence. Some people may totally avoid engaging in certain desired activities because of possibility of unwanted outcomes. Others will mull over the situation with a risk/benefit analysis, and, should they choose to engage in activity, take whatever steps appropriate for them to reduce risk to a manageable level and develop a backup plan to handle any unintended consequences. Some people decide that cooking in a lead crockpot or driving a car, even without limiting physical and mental conditions, is too risky for their comfort. For others, skydiving or mountain climbing may be the cutoff.

I agree. My first guess would be rushing to restroom to avoid urinary incontinence.

Delaying of gratification is generally considered virtuous by some of the same people who consider it selfish when applied to human reproduction. I agree with the poster pages back who stated essentially that the planners in life are the ones more likely to hold off until they feel they are ready mentally, financially, and emotionally to start a family, whatever their parameters are for readiness. Also we are shaped by our personal history. Living among third world rural (very remote region) and urban poverty conditions in a wealthy country can have a profound impact upon a woman's reproduction decisions. Yes, it can indeed convince her to delay reproduction until (1) she gets a functional education that will result in marketable skills so that she will be able to care for her children in event of divorce or widowhood (2) finds a man who has the means, desire and commitment to support the size family they both desire (3) can move out of a zip code that is not always in the top 20 for violent crime in the U.S. I guess number 3 could be loosely interpreted as delaying childbirth for "wanting real estate." Sure, bad stuff can still befall the family but they've reduced the odds against them. The reasons listed above, for some women, will outweigh the fact that fertility declines and disorders increase in childbirth in 30s and beyond. For some women, simply wanting a family is not reason enough to start one. Seeing certain things leave a permanent mark on one's psyche: malnourished infant with distended stomach, naked toddlers outside in cold weather, women's bodies worn out by uncontrolled reproduction and malnutrition, kids dying from tooth infections that spread to heart, kids dying from sinus infections that spread to brain, kids with vitamin deficiency diseases, kids with whopping cases of internal parasites, families living in shacks with no indoor plumbing or heating, snow blowing through the cracks in the boards, women who have no options to leave unfulfilling marriages because they cannot support the children they have and because they have no education or marketable job skills, generational familial retardation, domestic violence. Of course, these conditions are not because of children, but the children nonetheless are the ones that suffer. Plenty of these families had love; some of them had only dysfunction because they did not have fortitude to endure generational soul-sucking poverty. Fortunately nowadays birth control is generally available to those women who wish to use it. Fortunately citizens and our government do not get a say in when women decide to reproduce. The human reproduction system functions regardless of a couple's circumstances. Weaver_67579, assuming I am correctly interpreting your position on public assistance, I disagree with it. Once the baby is here, I truly believe that the concept of fairness goes out the window. We need to do whatever we can, both as a government and as an extended family member, to insure that all children have access to adequate nutrition, shelter, and education. Whether parents behaved in a responsible manner (according to whatever authority would decide what constitutes responsible - that's a scary scenario) should not have impact on the assistance a child receives.

No.

Thanks, Scarlett, for the posting the questions about potential marriages. I shared them with my young adult children, and it sparked a long, interesting conversation about what they expect from marriage and any potential partners. Even though none of the kids are religious, the questions and article still were a useful tool for them.

Two different neighbors a couple doors down from us have electrical contractors do their exterior lighting decor. One is spectacular multicolored display while the other is what most would consider more tasteful and understated. We now have tradition of drinking hot chocolate on porch Wednesday night before Thanksgiving to gaze at the display as the decorators finish the job on the house cattycorner from us.

Two of my kids told me last week that I reminded them of Barefoot Contessa/Ina Garten. I had to google her because I had never heard of her.

I truly enjoyed reading your unique love story.

Oh, poor kitty. Feral cats lead short, dangerous lives.