for pete's sake . . .

[gardenmom5]

maybe they should go and look at their curriculum instead. . . .

 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/18821/ca-educator-algebra-civil-rights-issue-get-rid-it-hank-berrien?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=051717-news&utm_campaign=dwtwitter

 

 

[nixpix5]

This may as well have been a spoof article in the onion. I cannot believe this is a legitimate article. Wow! If the rigor of an education is put into place early and stepped incrementally then most anyone can learn to pass Algebra. This isn't about getting an 'A' they just need to pass it for crying out loud.

 

I think more rigorous science should be added to a bachelor's requirement regardless of the focus and you would need more than Algebra for that. This continual removal of the basic tenants of an education just floor me.

 

My 10 year old niece is visiting right now. She is a typical kid, no learning challenges and goes to public school in an affluent neighborhood in Washington State. She could tell my kids loads of worldly social things since being here 3 days but doesn't know the difference between a state, country and continent. She asked me what "grammar" meant when she saw it on our curriculum and she still writes in a mix of upper and lower case letters. This is unacceptable. I wouldn't be upset about it if her report card reflected this but she gets straight A's.

 

Ok...backing away from my phone with my hands in the air. Clearly this article triggered me in a way that made me go a bit cray cray.

[Arcadia]

This may as well have been a spoof article in the onion. I cannot believe this is a legitimate article.

I think he meant to drop college algebra as a requirement and substitute with statistics or other math.

 

From NPR http://www.npr.org/2017/07/19/538092649/say-goodbye-to-x-y-should-community-colleges-abolish-algebra

"At American community colleges, 60 percent of those enrolled are required to take at least one math course. Most — nearly 80 percent — never complete that requirement.

 

Oakley is among a growing number of educators who view intermediate algebra as an obstacle to students obtaining their credentials — particularly in fields that require no higher level math skills.

 

Their thinking has led to initiatives like Community College Pathways, which strays away from abstract algebra to engage students in real-world math applications.

...

We are piloting different math pathways within our community colleges. We're working with our university partners at CSU and the UC, trying to ensure that we can align these courses to best prepare our students to succeed in majors. And if you think about it, you think about the use of statistics not only for a social science major but for every U.S. citizen. This is a skill that we should have all of our students have with them because this affects them in their daily life."

[goldberry]

This is a math professor who recommends that for those NOT pursuing calculus, college algebra be replaced with something with more direct applications.  He has some valid points.  The argument against college algebra has been around for quite some time.  It's never (to my knowledge) been about eliminating the math requirement, but allowing a substitute with more real world applications.

 

https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2016/06/a-meaningful-math-requirement-college-algebra-or-something-else/

 

College algebra is important. The mathematical ideas it treats and the mathematical language and symbolic manipulation it uses to express those ideas are essential for students who will progress to calculus.

But for students who aren’t calculus-bound, CA is not a good way to enhance their quantitative literacy or instill some appreciation of what mathematics has to offer.

 

He recommends courses that focus on evaluating data and understanding models.

 

The point of these courses is to enable students to be able to evaluate quantitative information, so  they can make logical deductions and arrive at reasonable conclusions. Such skills are crucial in today’s world.

For example, we are barraged with studies suggesting that this or that food or medication is good or harmful to our health. What are we to make of those studies, especially since they often contradict each other? Students need to be able to evaluate the data accompanying such studies and understand the underlying models on which they are based. That’s knowledge they get from Introduction to Mathematical Modeling.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by goldberry

[AngieW in Texas]

I am a high school science teacher. I have no problem with the idea of allowing students to replace college algebra with statistics.  Statistics is going to be far more useful to most students.

 

I also don't think high school students should have to take algebra I, geometry, and algebra II. I think statistics should absolutely count as one of the required math courses. I also think a financial literacy class that focuses on things like calculating paychecks, insurance costs, rent costs, credit card costs, ... should count as one of the required math courses.

 

I don't see any reason why it has to be specifically algebra I, geometry, and algebra II.  My state does allow math models to count as one of the required math courses and it does cover a lot of financial literacy topics, but that is not its focus. If I remember right, I think maybe 40% of the TEKS (knowledge and skill set requirements) are based on financial literacy.

 

[goldberry]

maybe they should go and look at their curriculum instead. . . .

 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/18821/ca-educator-algebra-civil-rights-issue-get-rid-it-hank-berrien?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=051717-news&utm_campaign=dwtwitter

 

Yeah, I think that headline is misleading honestly.  He's not saying get rid of it because it's a civil rights issue.  He's says:

 

What we're saying is we want as rigorous a course as possible to determine a student's ability to succeed, but it should be relevant to their course of study. There are other math courses that we could introduce that tell us a lot more about our students.

 

That argument has been around a long time actually, by a variety of proponents.

[Guinevere]

I value the algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2 chain not for the sake of the math, but for developing thinking skills.  

 

That said, it's not a terrible idea, IMO, to allow students to take statistics instead.  Maybe they could understand news articles.

[Guest]

The only thing on the stats substitution......upper level stats can get difficult. More difficult than college algebra. I have to wonder if someone who can't pass college algebra can pass a semester or two of stats? Unless they dumb down the stats courses. Isn't stats already a requirement for most degrees? I guess they could do a high school intro version or something.

[Caroline]

The only thing on the stats substitution......upper level stats can get difficult. More difficult than college algebra. I have to wonder if someone who can't pass college algebra can pass a semester or two of stats? Unless they dumb down the stats courses. Isn't stats already a requirement for most degrees? I guess they could do a high school intro version or something.

I agree. When I took stats I needed lots of algebra and calculus. I know not everyone does stats at that level, but, yes, stats can be conceptually difficult. I do think people in general need better stats education.

[FaithManor]

I agree. When I took stats I needed lots of algebra and calculus. I know not everyone does stats at that level, but, yes, stats can be conceptually difficult. I do think people in general need better stats education.

I don't think even basic stats can be fully understood without the brain understanding some algebra.

 

The answer to the education woes of this nation is not to keep cutting down subjects that cause the brain to mature and think critically.

[luuknam]

The only thing on the stats substitution......upper level stats can get difficult. More difficult than college algebra. I have to wonder if someone who can't pass college algebra can pass a semester or two of stats? Unless they dumb down the stats courses. Isn't stats already a requirement for most degrees? I guess they could do a high school intro version or something.

 

 

I took the simplest statistics course they had in university because it was one of the two possible stats courses I could take meet the requirements for a neuroscience major (the other was stats for psych majors), and I had a heavy course load (Calc II, neuroanatomy, a few other things) and this course seemed like an easy A to fill credits 17, 18, and 19 for the semester. Which it was, btw. That said, everybody else thought it was HARD, and there were a LOT of people in that class who were taking it for the 2nd or even 3rd time (as in, more people who were retaking it than people taking it for the first time). I think high school algebra was probably all it would've needed as far as prereqs were concerned (as in, you should be able to manage an A in that class if you knew your high school algebra, paid attention in class, and did your homework), though iirc the university ended up making College Algebra a prereq because of the very high failure rate (fwiw, since this was at a 4-year institution, everybody needed at least College Algebra and Intro to Stats... that was pretty much the easiest math combination to get a bachelor's degree). So, anyway... not convinced that replacing College Algebra with Intro to Stats is going to improve graduation rates. Yes, the average person could benefit from having a clue about statistics and probability. The average person could also benefit from better math education in elementary, middle, and high school. 

[gardenmom5]

three of my kids got their first year of calc in high school. one really struggled with math - and took statistics.  had a very good teacher.   later started studying math independently - and concluded the school's math curriculum sucked. (it did.  BIG TIME.   turns out - other districts were getting sued over the curriculum.)

 

so- kid who hated/struggled with math, went and did independent online study to be able to take a college placement test into calculus. he's now 3rd year engineering student. (and loving every minute of it.)

 

I think if kids are having this much trouble - they really need to examine how they are teaching it, because I've seen a lot of sucky curriculum.  so has my friend the high school math teacher.

the teacher from stand and deliver had the same conclusion -it was how it was being taught.

[nixpix5]

I don't think even basic stats can be fully understood without the brain understanding some algebra.

 

The answer to the education woes of this nation is not to keep cutting down subjects that cause the brain to mature and think critically.

Yes! This! I am a neurobiologist but my classics minor has been beyond useful for critical thinking, predictive politics and just having a deeper understanding of humanity. The ridiculous amounts of lit classes I took had nothing to do with my degree and career but it was immensely beneficial. Breadth requirements exist to make a more rounded individual and while kids used to get this in high school, now college is often the only place this is happening. I just do not agree that someone can understand statistics without Algebra unless we are talking very basic statistics.

 

More than ever we need people who can think critically, flexibly, mathmatically. I guess I will have to agree to disagree with this.

Edited July 21, 2017 by nixpix5

[TravelingChris]

I took a number of stat classes with one in my college and more when I was getting my master's in criminology and did my coursework for my doctorate.  A few years ago, I taught high school students statistics.  The prerequisite was algebra.  I guess I should have put done well in Algebra.  Not all the kids had issues but most did.  Unless it is a non math stat class- let's discuss statistics, I don't see how substituting stats for algebra would work. My limited observations was that if someone has problems with Algebra, they will have problems with stat too. 

 

[Arcadia]

It is official now.

 

"Beginning in the fall of 2018, students whose majors aren’t math or science heavy will be able to fulfill their math requirements without slogging through intermediate algebra first — part of a larger effort to increase graduation rates.

“What that means for students is they have more choices,†said Christine Mallon, CSU’s associate vice chancellor for academic programs and faculty development.

 

By 2025, CSU wants 40 percent of its freshmen to earn a degree in four years, almost double the current figure. One of the holdups is remedial math education. Right now, nearly 40 percent of freshmen admitted to a CSU campus have to take remedial math or English classes that are time consuming and expensive but don’t actually count toward a degree." http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/01/no-intermediate-algebra-no-problem-csu-ditches-tricky-math-prerequisite/

Edited August 2, 2017 by Arcadia

[Guest]

I would rather see it replaced with a class that taught the math needed to understand mortgage amortization charts, compounding loan interest, budgeting with variables, and so on...

[The Governess]

I would rather see it replaced with a class that taught the math needed to understand mortgage amortization charts, compounding loan interest, budgeting with variables, and so on...

Amortization and compounding interest was taught in my business calculus class.

[wapiti]

Basic compounding interest, as in A = P(1 + r/t)^nt, was taught in my middle schooler's algebra 1 class.

[Guest]

Amortization and compounding interest was taught in my business calculus class.

It was mine as well for a couple of days...the rest of the class (or most of it) was useless unless I was going into business.  (I took it because I failed trig 2x and couldn't get into a regular calculus class :)  There are personal applications in most math classes, but you shouldn't have to take every one of those classes just to get the very relevant, personal applications.  I personally think they should be consolidated into a single class, in college - not high school.

 

[Guest]

Basic compounding interest, as in A = P(1 + r/t)^nt, was taught in my middle schooler's algebra 1 class.

 

I don't ever recall having a compounding interest problem until community college.  But then again, my own homeschool education was lacking in many ways.

[Arcadia]

I don't ever recall having a compounding interest problem until community college. But then again, my own homeschool education was lacking in many ways.

It was in my kids K12 inc middle school math curriculum. My kids were with a public charter that use K12 materials.

E.g. from Kuta Software prealgebra https://cdn.kutasoftware.com/Worksheets/PreAlg/Simple%20and%20Compound%20Interest.pdf

 

NCTM's high school activity sheet Predicting Your Financial Future https://illuminations.nctm.org/Lesson.aspx?id=2765

 

Texas 7th grade math

"PFL Math 7.13E calculate and compare simple interest and compound interest earnings

Texas Essential Knowledge and

Skills (Target standards)" http://economicstexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Grade-7-Lesson-5-r.pdf

 

It is also in CTY JHU's prealgebra course http://cty.jhu.edu/ctyonline/courses/mathematics/prealgebra.html

[momacacia]

I think a journalist got bored and made the whole thing up.

[Chris in VA]

Um,when I clicked on the link, it took me to an article about a woman who changed things in her daughter's princess book. 

What am I missing? 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Um,when I clicked on the link, it took me to an article about a woman who changed things in her daughter's princess book. 

What am I missing? 

 

I couldn't find it either, but frankly, I don't think I'd take any article from that first site seriously. You might take a look at some of the other links provided. Arcadia posted a recent update on the issue.

 

I'm a little torn on this. I went to a good, large state U over 20 years ago, and while I placed into needing remedial math in my college placement exam, because I was going into a social science major, I didn't actually need to take any college math, remedial or otherwise. In high school, I took algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and trig (no calculus, I left school a year early and went right to college). How does college algebra differ from what I took in high school? 

 

In spite of not taking any college-level math--and not even having taken calculus in high school--I've managed to stay gainfully employed (worked in non-profit, then as a research and production editor for years, and now I work in insurance billing). I can read and understand statistical analysis well enough to understand the articles I read in books and magazines, and even most scholarly journal articles. I learned all of that in high-school level math, and I can honestly say I've never once been hampered by not having learned math beyond trigonometry. I never had a plan for any math- or science-related major, so it never held me back in my education. It may hold me back in teaching my DD, unfortunately, but we have good CCs here, and access to good online classes too. 

 

So I'm not sure I'm convinced that kids who've had a solid foundation in high school-level math and who will be heading into majors/careers unrelated to math and science will be impaired without even more math. (And the comments under the San Jose Mercury News article did nothing to convince otherwise. I don't know why I even bothered to look for reasoned, intelligent discourse there  :rolleyes:)

[bethben]

And we wonder why more and more businesses are making some college/a college degree a leg up in hiring even for very basic entry level jobs?!? I would hope that students entering college would at least have algebra figured out well enough! Just that so many aren't able to finish a math requirement in college that they had to change the rules is a little telling of their high school education.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JumpyTheFrog]

I'm beginning to see why non-tech business supposedly like to hire math and science majors. They probably figure their college courses were still college level.