Common core standards

[Roadrunner]

Does anybody understand well what those are? We got an e-mail today from the school that CA language arts and math standards were changing to correspond to "common core standards' and all teachers were being trained. No real details, but apparently standarized testing will change greatly (according to the e-mail) because of this change. The e-mail says "Math will no longer be a “mile wide and inch deep.†That sounds exactly what I want to hear. What doeas that mean in practice? They just bought EnVision math, so are they going to be revamping things in CA??? Also, they said language arts will have a greater emphasis on critical thinking and greater non-fiction content. The last part worries me a little. My friend's kid in 6th grade has no literature program in her English class (O.K. they did read one small obsure book), but instead they are reading different arguments (the one she worked on was on video games). Does that mean even less literature and even more something else? Anybody understands all the changes or cares to discuss?

[msjones]

Does anybody understand well what those are? We got an e-mail today from the school that CA language arts and math standards were changing to correspond to "common core standards' and all teachers were being trained. No real details, but apparently standarized testing will change greatly (according to the e-mail) because of this change. The e-mail says "Math will no longer be a “mile wide and inch deep.†That sounds exactly what I want to hear. What doeas that mean in practice? They just bought EnVision math, so are they going to be revamping things in CA??? Also, they said language arts will have a greater emphasis on critical thinking and greater non-fiction content. The last part worries me a little. My friend's kid in 6th grade has no literature program in her English class (O.K. they did read one small obsure book), but instead they are reading different arguments (the one she worked on was on video games). Does that mean even less literature and even more something else? Anybody understands all the changes or cares to discuss?

 

Well, my husband (public high school math teacher) just went to a "common core standards" meeting a few nights ago. Apparently 40 states (!) are adopting these 'new' standards. (I have to say, things have changed in the world of public education if 40 states can agree on anything, let alone core standards.)

 

I haven't had time to get details from him, but he thought the training was well-done and he was happy enough with the math standards. I'll check back with this thread after I get more info from him. (He's out in the cold coaching a high school football game, so I can't ask him now.) I'm very curious about them, too.

[msjones]

http://www.corestandards.org/

 

Here's a link to the Core Standards Initiative site. I haven't read it yet, but am going there now.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Before you try to get around the core standards and then get the surprise that your district is implementing them with something they'll call "power standards" or whatever (like they do here)- try to listen to the district response before you spend any real time on it.

 

I learned this the hard way.

[Caroline]

Before you try to get around the core standards and then get the surprise that your district is implementing them with something they'll call "power standards" or whatever (like they do here)- try to listen to the district response before you spend any real time on it.

 

I learned this the hard way.

 

You can't have learned this the hard way because Common Core has not been implemented anywhere yet.

 

I agree with Ms Jones's DH's assessment. (I hope he won his football game. I love when the coaches are math teachers. We used to have a math teaching basketball coach. It was awesome!)

[Bang!Zoom!]

At the expense of a very long paste/post, what is happening here is they are implementing "powerstandards" for 11 core subjects and core standards.

 

The GLE/EALR & hoopie doo are being condensed to a more reasonable format.

 

I don't expect these to change that drastically as the core standard roll out hits. I could be wrong, I do that frequently.

 

This is a translated/non-ed speak list of all of that in four of the cores:

 

This is what our district has done with all the GLE/EALR and any of the common core items as they sit right now in progress.

 

http://mustangv.blogspot.com/p/rsd-power-standards.html

 

And again, this applies only to this district. I don't know what others will do. I think there are several "phases" to the implementation.

[Roadrunner]

Thanks for the link. My coffee is hot and off I go reading this. I am sooo very interested what teachers think about this.

[msjones]

At the expense of a very long paste/post, what is happening here is they are implementing "powerstandards" for 11 core subjects and core standards.

 

The GLE/EALR & hoopie doo are being condensed to a more reasonable format.

 

I don't expect these to change that drastically as the core standard roll out hits. I could be wrong, I do that frequently.

 

This is a translated/non-ed speak list of all of that in four of the cores:

 

This is what our district has done with all the GLE/EALR and any of the common core items as they sit right now in progress.

 

http://mustangv.blogspot.com/p/rsd-power-standards.html

 

And again, this applies only to this district. I don't know what others will do. I think there are several "phases" to the implementation.

 

I don't believe that he GLE/EALRs/power standards are the same as the Common Core Standards. I realize they sound similar, but I believe the Common Core is actually a response of sorts to the GLE/EALRs of years past.

 

Don't quote me on that, but do check out my earlier link -- it seemed to have a lot of information.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Nope, GLE, EALR and Common Core are all different animals.

 

The Common Core is (I think from what I know) a blanket US one size fits all set of standards to be met and measured.

 

GLE/EALR are more like individual grains of sand on someone's private (district/program/school preference) beach...if that analogy makes any sense.

 

Our district, for example said to heck with the State GLE/EALR due to complexity and redefined what they considered to be the core items of GLE/EALR **combined with** the upcoming roll-out of Common Core.

 

That's where the term "power-standards" comes from in this area.

 

(looks into coffee cup, still half full...so..take it into account k) - I *think* Common Core is somehow connected to a program called ..oh man..what is that...it's like the new NCLB...whew..oh...ow ow, turn on brain, cmon...ah..ya..

 

Race to the Top.

 

I think there is a connection there somewhere...

[Critterfixer]

The math standards look really good. The language arts standards prompted my mother to ask "What were they on when they wrote that?":D

I found out about the Common Core standards sometime this summer. Since it sounded like something I might be asked to meet in the future, I printed out copies and filed them for future reference if I need to show the state how I am handling those goals.

IMO, a good classical education should make their language arts core look like child's play in the end, but they are pretty heavy on the reading comp skills in the early grades.

[EKS]

Here's an article by Dr Wu about the Common Core math standards. http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/fall2011/Wu.pdf

[Roadrunner]

The math standards look really good. The language arts standards prompted my mother to ask "What were they on when they wrote that?":D

I found out about the Common Core standards sometime this summer. Since it sounded like something I might be asked to meet in the future, I printed out copies and filed them for future reference if I need to show the state how I am handling those goals.

IMO, a good classical education should make their language arts core look like child's play in the end, but they are pretty heavy on the reading comp skills in the early grades.

 

I am still digging through the information. So, math standards are actually looking weaker than current CA math standards. I am not liking this. This is a link to a dissnting opinion piece " Proposed math standards unteachable".

http://www.restoreokpubliceducation.com/node/643

I agree on language arts :)

[Critterfixer]

So, math standards are actually looking weaker than current CA math standards. I am not liking this.

 

Well, in my neck of the woods, the common core math standards are better than what is currently taught.

[BabyBre]

Well, you know there's something up when 40 states sign on to standards that aren't finalized. Washington state agreed to adopt the CCSS even though the preliminary math standards were actually less rigorous than our current state math standards. There's federal money involved and that's the bottom line. It amounts to selling out state soverignity. Parents and teachers already have little say in what children are learning, and when the oversight is national, they'll have absolutely none.

[Roadrunner]

Well, you know there's something up when 40 states sign on to standards that aren't finalized. Washington state agreed to adopt the CCSS even though the preliminary math standards were actually less rigorous than our current state math standards. There's federal money involved and that's the bottom line. It amounts to selling out state soverignity. Parents and teachers already have little say in what children are learning, and when the oversight is national, they'll have absolutely none.

 

 

What money? Do you know how that works?

[Word Nerd]

We talked about them at our site council meeting. The principal said they aren't much different overall than our state standards except for upper elementary math, as what is taught when will be changing. He isn't concerned because implementing the core standards will still be up to schools and districts. I'm not sure yet what I think, and I guess time will tell.

[momsquared]

Well, you know there's something up when 40 states sign on to standards that aren't finalized. Washington state agreed to adopt the CCSS even though the preliminary math standards were actually less rigorous than our current state math standards. There's federal money involved and that's the bottom line. It amounts to selling out state soverignity. Parents and teachers already have little say in what children are learning, and when the oversight is national, they'll have absolutely none.

 

That's just it. The implementation is in its infancy and suddenly everyone is jumping on board. Will it change much? I doubt it. Are they fine? Sure.

 

By the time they are well flushed out, edu-tocracy will move on to the next best flavor.

[BabyBre]

What money? Do you know how that works?

 

 

Still looking for specifics on that, but here's an article about why states (specifically Washington) should avoid the CCSS.

 

 

Reasons Not to adopt the Common Core State Standards

 

By Laurie H. Rogers, education advocate

 

 

 

• The CCSS/tests/curriculum initiatives are untested and unproved. There are no tangible, measurable results anywhere in this country, no evidence to support allegations of their efficacy. Our children and teachers are the subjects of this national education experiment. It’s irresponsible to mandate that we all rush to adopt untested products.
  
• In math, the CCSS are a lesser product. Supporters of the CCSS admit that Washington’s current math standards are better, but they claim it doesn’t matter. Who spends hundreds of millions of dollars to adopt something that isn’t as good?
  
• The CCSS are a “minimum†AND a “maximum†standard. Our state is allowed to add up to 15% more content to the CCSS, but the costs of adding and assessing the extra are to be borne by taxpayers. It's almost certain we would get the CCSS as is. Regardless, any addition is limited to 15%.
  
• The people don’t own the CCSS. Non-governmental organizations NGA and CCSSO own the CCSS. There is therefore no public accountability for the quality of the CCSS, no public vote against them, no public control over how they will be modified, and no recourse if the people don’t like the results.
  
• Nationalization of public education. With national standards, a national test, a national curriculum, a national database – and no local control – public education is thereby nationalized. Taxpayers will not be in control of what their children are learning, in the classrooms they pay for.
  
• Initially, these initiatives will produce instability and taxpayer costs. Then, there will be continued change and costs, or national paralysis. Centralization of public education initially will cause upheaval as all districts change over – at a cost of billions of taxpayer dollars. Supporters have called the CCSS a “living document,†indicating that change is expected. If so, this will be change and costs over which our state, districts, legislators, teachers and parents have little or no control. Another distinct possibility is national paralysis, where no one wants to change anything because then everyone would have to change.
  
• These initiatives will provide less public accountability. With the national standards/tests/curriculum, public education will be turned over to people who don’t know us, and who will never talk with us. It will result in a complete loss of local decision-making, and less real public accountability.
  
  • The process used in Washington State to “provisionally†adopt the CCSS cut the public out of the process until it was all but too late. The public was told one thing, even as a completely different thing was happening. Gov. Gregoire and Superintendent Dorn signed a Memorandum of Agreement on the CCSS with no public notification. A few months later, they were pushing districts to sign on to RTTT (and the attendant CCSS) before the standards were even written.
    
  • When public input finally was solicited, it was after the CCSS had been provisionally adopted. OSPI’s public “surveys†were heavily biased toward their permanent adoption.
    
  • I’ve been trying for almost two years to get answers from the national business and political interests pushing the CCSS, and from the U.S. Department of Education. I haven’t received responses from most of these people, much less answers. The Dept. of Ed appears to be ignoring a Freedom of Information Act request about the CCSS.
    
  • The CCSS were provisionally adopted, pending a legislative review in early 2011. But in this 2011 session, legislators have not had the opportunity to vote against their permanent adoption.
    

  [*]Adopting the CCSS/tests/curriculum is a waste of taxpayer money. The money Washington State would get for the Race to the Top initiative will not pay for the costs of adopting the national standards/tests/curriculum. Ultimately, the national standards/tests/curriculum initiatives will cost more than the standards and assessments we have now.

  • Washington State taxpayers spent more than $100 million on the development and implementation of the 2008 math standards that are clearer and more rigorous than those in the CCSS.
    
  • State education agencies’ cost estimations for the CCSS often don’t take into account district costs, nor costs for materials, professional development, or the technology mandated by the new “common†tests.
    
  • The money to build current standards and assessments is already spent. There are no savings to be had – not until the state MIGHT make changes at some unknown point down the road. It’s “creative accounting†to call that nebulous assumption “saving money.â€
    
  • It isn’t better to spend “federal†money than it is to spend “district†money. “Federal,†“state†and “district†money are all taxpayer money. Taxpayers can’t afford this untested, unproved upheaval.
    
  • Even if Washington adopted the CCSS and got all of the money it could get for Race to the Top, half stays at the state level. The amount going to districts is a few dozen dollars per student per year, and there is no guarantee that ANY of it would go to classrooms.
    

No taxpayer understands spending hundreds of millions of dollars to adopt standards that are untested, expensive, and demonstrably less rigorous in math than what we have now. Yes, our public education system is weak. The answer is not to give away more control – it is to regain control at local levels, and hold those local people accountable. Something needs to be done, but not this. Not the CCSS. Not RTTT. Not the centralization and federalization of public education. Not the removal of the people’s voice and our vote. We need MORE voice, more choice, and more options for parents and teachers. Competition is good for education.

 

 

The CCSS/common assessments will add to costs, lower standards, eliminate choice, and ultimately not help children learn better. Adopting the CCSS will take our public schools in exactly the wrong direction.

[Twilight Woods]

Im in IL and I just received this email as well. I think there are a few states that are adopting these.

[Roadrunner]

My understanding is also it will cost a lot of money at a time when money is so tight. I guess the best thing to do is ask teachers what they think will change in their classrooms because of those standards. By the way, parent teacher conferences are coming up, so we will have a chance to get couple of questions answered. Should we start a new thread on parent teacher conferences? :001_smile:

[Twilight Woods]

My understanding is also it will cost a lot of money at a time when money is so tight. I guess the best thing to do is ask teachers what they think will change in their classrooms because of those standards. By the way, parent teacher conferences are coming up, so we will have a chance to get couple of questions answered. Should we start a new thread on parent teacher conferences? :001_smile:

 

We had our PTC 2 weeks BEFORE the announcement. Very convenient. :glare:

[Arcadia]

I am still digging through the information. So, math standards are actually looking weaker than current CA math standards. I am not liking this.

 

I'm too lazy to start a new thread. This part would likely interest you from the Nov 10th, 2014 article in EdWeek Q&A: Behind the Math Standards. It would be bad if high schools treat it as a free pass to stop at algebra 2.

 

"Barbara Oakley, an engineering professor at Oakland University in Rochester, Mich., recently wrote in The Wall Street Journal that math teachers are focusing too much on students' conceptual understanding in math, which is a key tenet of the common standards. The key to expertise in math, she said, is not conceptual understanding but practice. What's your response to that?

 

I think she's completely right that people are overemphasizing conceptual understanding. But the common core balances conceptual understanding and procedural fluency.

What's interesting to me is that both the supporters and the critics of the common core, I think, are overemphasizing conceptual understanding—and understandably because everybody's always demanded procedural fluency, and the conceptual understanding is what's new. But that doesn't make the other requirement go away.

In some sense, previous waves of reform have swung back and forth between one or the other, but the common core strikes a balance.

 

What's your response to the criticism that the math standards don't go far enough? That they don't prepare students who want to pursue a career in math?

 

That's a complete red herring. Standards never did that. It's always been true that if you wanted a career in math and science, you take more math than kids who don't. It's always been true that the standards for college acceptance for a general wide variety of majors is Algebra 2, and it's always been true that if you want go into a STEM career or math major or physics major, you take calculus in addition. Or if you want to get into Harvard or Stanford, you take calculus.

There's nothing new there. The standards don't describe calculus because there's already a national standard for that, which is the AP [Advanced Placement] curricula.

Fundamentally, this is a confusion between college readiness and STEM readiness. Some people want to define college readiness to be the same as STEM readiness. That's fine if that's their opinion, but it's not traditionally the definition that most people have used. And it's not the one that we use. We use the definition of college readiness as ready for credit-bearing courses in college."

[Roadrunner]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/marina-ratner-making-math-education-even-worse-1407283282

 

 

I don't know if this article was ever discussed. It's interesting.

[Tsuga]

Well, you know there's something up when 40 states sign on to standards that aren't finalized. Washington state agreed to adopt the CCSS even though the preliminary math standards were actually less rigorous than our current state math standards. There's federal money involved and that's the bottom line. It amounts to selling out state soverignity. Parents and teachers already have little say in what children are learning, and when the oversight is national, they'll have absolutely none.

 

1. Our state isn't sovereign. When we joined the union, we were joining a 41-state union.

 

2. The standards are not less rigorous than in Washington state--they are less rigorous than our honors courses, but more rigorous than our floor. This is a floor not a ceiling and we have raised the floor.

 

3. If our state did things for federal money, we would have caved to the feds on NCLB, but we did not and we lost funding for the sake of academic freedom.

 

4. I'm  not sure if you know what's going on in school districts, but I pay very close attention. Just today I got an e-mail from the math teacher saying that they'd worked ahead in math, and had decided to spend the day on an art project with the art teacher. How is that not academic freedom?

 

 

In my area, that means the families pay, or their high school child sits in study hall. Want math after Alg.2? Must be taken DE..only exception are students on free lunch who get a waiver. Same for FE4 and 5.

 

Heigh Ho, you live in a seriously effed up state. Here, Alg 2 is offered to 100% of children who get in--for free. Most children take it in 9th or 10th grade. Up to Calc II free, and if you go beyond that, Running Start classes can be taken at community college for free. You do have to qualify for Running Start with a good GPA. There is no financial qualification. You can also do Running Start if you are on-track but choose to do college courses.

 

Please do not generalize your messed up area to the entire country.

 

It is possible to have educational excellence when a community commits to it financially. No standards are preventing that from happening. We are living proof.

 

The fact that Americans really cannot distinguish between "minimum standards" and "maximum effort" is proof that something in our educational system must change now. I mean it is not complicated. "Everyone has to learn to read" does not mean "Everyone can ONLY learn to read."

[Tsuga]

I read what you wrote--I have read many of your posts.

 

We are not "lucky" we don't have New York's poverty problem. We VOTED IN the highest minimum wages in the country on purpose. That is not "luck". We consistently have voted against waiving the minimum wage for tipped workers. You get your $10/hr no matter what.

 

It is not LUCK that voters uniformly and consistently vote in school levies. It is goodwill.

 

http://www.capitalregionboces.org/taxlevycap/

 

More importantly, New York spends more per pupil than we do. You also have a higher GDP per capita than we do.

 

Somehow, we manage. Even in rural schools, which my sister lives in, they have AP Calc offered remotely, for free.

 

If you are not in NY, then apologies--several other policy remarks led me to believe you were.

[Reefgazer]

The states still don't actually agree with standards; they were lured (or bribed) by the prospects of boatloads of cash from the federal government.  The cash was to nudge them into accepting the standards because they wouldn't have been adopted otherwise.

Well, my husband (public high school math teacher) just went to a "common core standards" meeting a few nights ago. Apparently 40 states (!) are adopting these 'new' standards. (I have to say, things have changed in the world of public education if 40 states can agree on anything, let alone core standards.)

I haven't had time to get details from him, but he thought the training was well-done and he was happy enough with the math standards. I'll check back with this thread after I get more info from him. (He's out in the cold coaching a high school football game, so I can't ask him now.) I'm very curious about them, too.

 

[Reefgazer]

You won't get your questions answered at the PTC, for a variety of reasons.  You'll need to do your own sleuthing on them, which is preferable anyway, because then you can read them in their unfiltered state.  If you can, get your hands on a copy of the teacher manual for a Common Core approved textbook and flip through it to reach your own conclusions.

My understanding is also it will cost a lot of money at a time when money is so tight. I guess the best thing to do is ask teachers what they think will change in their classrooms because of those standards. By the way, parent teacher conferences are coming up, so we will have a chance to get couple of questions answered. Should we start a new thread on parent teacher conferences? :001_smile:

 

[Reefgazer]

What is tested is taught, nothing more.  Therefore, the floor becomes the ceiling. 

 

The standards become the curriculum when standard writers also have financial stakes in the textbook companies, test-prep companies, and are the standardized test makers.

1. Our state isn't sovereign. When we joined the union, we were joining a 41-state union.

 

2. The standards are not less rigorous than in Washington state--they are less rigorous than our honors courses, but more rigorous than our floor. This is a floor not a ceiling and we have raised the floor.

 

3. If our state did things for federal money, we would have caved to the feds on NCLB, but we did not and we lost funding for the sake of academic freedom.

 

4. I'm  not sure if you know what's going on in school districts, but I pay very close attention. Just today I got an e-mail from the math teacher saying that they'd worked ahead in math, and had decided to spend the day on an art project with the art teacher. How is that not academic freedom?

 

 

Heigh Ho, you live in a seriously effed up state. Here, Alg 2 is offered to 100% of children who get in--for free. Most children take it in 9th or 10th grade. Up to Calc II free, and if you go beyond that, Running Start classes can be taken at community college for free. You do have to qualify for Running Start with a good GPA. There is no financial qualification. You can also do Running Start if you are on-track but choose to do college courses.

 

Please do not generalize your messed up area to the entire country.

 

It is possible to have educational excellence when a community commits to it financially. No standards are preventing that from happening. We are living proof.

 

The fact that Americans really cannot distinguish between "minimum standards" and "maximum effort" is proof that something in our educational system must change now. I mean it is not complicated. "Everyone has to learn to read" does not mean "Everyone can ONLY learn to read."

 

[SKL]

I have decided that, from a personal selfish perspective, I don't care what the standards are, as long as they train the teachers AND communicate with the parents, before expecting the kids to meet said standards.  I'm in favor of real educational challenge and I'm willing to work with my kids to shore up their weaknesses over time.  The key word being "time," which I don't really see getting a lot of respect in the transitions.

 

I'm lucky to know of this forum, where I get ideas for helping my kids get from point A to point B, however ridiculous it seems at first.  I also try to buy a copy (or practice companion) of whatever texts they are using in the more frustrating subjects at school.

 

Of course many kids whose parents can't/won't help will be screwed.  I wish I could do something about that.

[vonfirmath]

You won't get your questions answered at the PTC, for a variety of reasons.  You'll need to do your own sleuthing on them, which is preferable anyway, because then you can read them in their unfiltered state.  If you can, get your hands on a copy of the teacher manual for a Common Core approved textbook and flip through it to reach your own conclusions.

 

I think I'm losing the thread of this conversation. What questions are not answered at a parent-teacher conference? Because I've had all the questions I've asked answered there. Sometimes not just in the 15 minutes or so of the conference. But the teacher gets back to me after finding answers.

[vonfirmath]

Of course many kids whose parents can't/won't help will be screwed.  I wish I could do something about that.

 

I believe this is always and will always be the case. Children whose parents do not care about education have a MUCH harder row to hoe. Some will make it regardless (They have the inner drive to succeed) but the barriers are higher without the support and encouragement at home.

[SKL]

I believe this is always and will always be the case. Children whose parents do not care about education have a MUCH harder row to hoe. Some will make it regardless (They have the inner drive to succeed) but the barriers are higher without the support and encouragement at home.

 

Well, philosophically, I think school should be the kids' responsibility and it should be the norm that parents are mostly hands-off.  It was that way for most successful kids when I was young.  Support and encouragement used to mean making sure you had breakfast in the a.m. and a time and place to do homework in the p.m.  Not "learn the new math so you can teach it after dinner."

[Tsuga]

The tl;dr here is please speak for your own community. What you are saying is not the case with my community and it is offensive that you continue to post this as if it is an inevitable development that comes with any kind of educational oversight, because it implies that my community is as corrupt and messed up as the communities where indeed, they are using standards as a way to kill public education.

 

 

 

What is tested is taught, nothing more.  Therefore, the floor becomes the ceiling.

 

1. This assumes that the people in the school district have an incentive system attached to test scores. In our state, teachers' pay are not linked to test scores, nor are principals' pay or advancement. Improvement is monitored but only over a population.

 

2. Common core does not introduce standardized testing, so how could it introduce a new floor? We already had a test (everyone did). But some schools never stopped teaching art and music. How is that possible, if tests determine the floor? Wouldn't then every nation with a national system, have a curriculum which went no higher than its floor standards? We have had standardized testing, all of them together, for over a decade and it hasn't stopped people from teaching AP Calc II, art and music. Why didn't they stop teaching music when they introduced the SAT?

 

3. This assumes that we all live in states in which corruption is the norm and in which there is no citizen oversight. It is just so insulting to constantly hear people in corrupt or god knows what is wrong with your states, insist that that is the norm and happens everywhere. Yes we have problems. Many, many problems. And we had testing issues and we are still resolving them. Nobody is perfect. But we are not giving up and what has happened in your areas, according to you, is not happening here, at least not without a fight and yes there is a big fight but we are going to win.

 

The floor-becomes-ceiling here won't happen here I won't let it. Me. That's right, I'm going to take personal responsibility for this. One person. Starts here. Right here, right now. I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen or die trying.

 

Luckily I share this attitude with many of my neighbors.

 

There are other like-minded people around who haven't given up, either. Yay!

 

Recently, some of our high schools refused testing. They didn't have to refuse standards to refuse testing. They refused testing. They took a principled stand and they aren't alone.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/11/teachers-refuse-to-give-standardized-test-at-seattle-high-school/

 

You may be shocked but so far no storm troopers have come in to arrest everybody. Actually, the movement has gained traction.

 

What, people effecting change? What is this thing you are talking about? A community taking responsibility?

 

Our system is not perfect. Nobody is saying it is. But insisting that one program is going to cause the end of calculus instruction in our public schools--well we can let that happen or we can participate in a system so that it does not happen. And I do believe it is possible and I will be the one to make sure it happens if necessary. Taking a non-combative, participatory stance helps.

 

I'm very proud of our local high school which is one of the top 150 most challenging in spite of the fact that 53% of children speak a language other than English at home and 41% qualify for free or reduced lunch. Please do not tell me we succeed here because we do not have poverty. It's a lie.

 

Here are some more stories of people standing up and making hard decisions:

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022125372_edlabwhitecenterxml.html

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/education/2023848965_edlabtoppenishxml.html

 

Suppose the parents had all sat back and said, "well I guess now the floor is the new ceiling"? What if people didn't dedicate their lives to these children?

 

I realize there are parts of the country where education is so completely messed up, and the entire government is so incredibly corrupt, that this is not happening. And I am sorry.

 

But the problem there is not standards. The problem is not the fact that government exists. The problem is corruption. End corruption, not education. End graft, not standards. Be the change.

 

I mean what is the alternative here? No tests? No standards? No public schools? Only people who can survive on one income can educate their children? Is that really an option?

 

And I'm sure someone will come back to me and say, "Well I do participate in my community but it still sucks."

 

Good for you and I'm sorry your community sucks--I really am. My heart breaks for Florida.

 

Feel free to tell us about what has happened in your schools. Do not presume to tell us that this is the inevitable result of standards everywhere.

 

Clearly, standards have not caused the floor to be the ceiling in Finland. "Every school has the same national goals and draws from the same pool of university-trained educators."

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/#fAEXGOVKiV7uvoRv.99
 

No, they do not teach to the test. But again, again, again, let me repeat--the common core does not in and of itself require testing.

 

Just because some want to attach a minimal standard to testing does not mean that it is inevitable. People have refused. People are refusing.

 

Stop buying the line that we can't do anything about it. It's too easy. Honestly, if I were a conspiracy theorist I'd say your reaction is exactly what they want: drop out, give up hope.

 

But that nagging feeling that they want me to give up and stop fighting is exactly why I keep going.

[Reefgazer]

You won't get straight answers about Common Core questions because in many cases the teachers themselves are uninformed about Common Core, because a quick PTC answer cannot give the level of detail necessary to completely answer a questions, and because in some schools, the only answers the teachers can give are those that the school district has approved (which may or may not answer what you ask, or may or may not be truthful and complete).  Regarding Common Core:  You are better off reading through the standards yourself, finding the answers on your own rather than relying on a district's answer to your questions, reading the associated RTTT regulations that accompany the Common Core, and looking directly at the teacher manual/classroom materials of a Common Core aligned textbook or two.   

I think I'm losing the thread of this conversation. What questions are not answered at a parent-teacher conference? Because I've had all the questions I've asked answered there. Sometimes not just in the 15 minutes or so of the conference. But the teacher gets back to me after finding answers.

 

[Reefgazer]

Your state (and my state, and my parents state) isn't special and above it all; don't kid yourself.  No state has accepted the reading and math Common Core standards without also accepting RTTT funds, because those funds were the bribe to get states to accept the standards.  I will continue to post against the common core and offer my point of view on it and not pretend certain states are exempt from the regulations and "above it all".  You are free to be offended by my posts; There is an ignore feature on this board for posts you can't stomach. 

 

Regarding your response:  They do have an incentive attached; tying teacher pay to Common Core approved tests is mandated when a state accepts RTTT funds (no state has adopted Common Core without also taking the RTTT funds).  Since RTTT funds and Common Core are tied together because no state has adopted Common Core without the funds, standardized testing is also mandated.

 

I admire your active involvement with your educational system, but you no longer have a say in what is implemented.  Accepting RTTT funds meant your state is obligated to teach the standards, accept the standardized testing, tie teacher pay to test scores, keep and report longitudinal data, and abide by every other regulation in the RTTT contract or *return the funds*.  Let me know if your state returns the funds because you might not be happy with how things are going.

 

I am not advocating "giving up"; quite the contrary.  I do believe your control of education can be returned to you, but that would require voting in people at the state level who are willing to reject boatloads of federal money that has been earmarked for education and the states funding education solely themselves.  I don't believe that will happen in my children's school lifetime.

 

 

 

The tl;dr here is please speak for your own community. What you are saying is not the case with my community and it is offensive that you continue to post this as if it is an inevitable development that comes with any kind of educational oversight, because it implies that my community is as corrupt and messed up as the communities where indeed, they are using standards as a way to kill public education.

 

 

 

1. This assumes that the people in the school district have an incentive system attached to test scores. In our state, teachers' pay are not linked to test scores, nor are principals' pay or advancement. Improvement is monitored but only over a population.

 

2. Common core does not introduce standardized testing, so how could it introduce a new floor? We already had a test (everyone did). But some schools never stopped teaching art and music. How is that possible, if tests determine the floor? Wouldn't then every nation with a national system, have a curriculum which went no higher than its floor standards? We have had standardized testing, all of them together, for over a decade and it hasn't stopped people from teaching AP Calc II, art and music. Why didn't they stop teaching music when they introduced the SAT?

 

3. This assumes that we all live in states in which corruption is the norm and in which there is no citizen oversight. It is just so insulting to constantly hear people in corrupt or god knows what is wrong with your states, insist that that is the norm and happens everywhere. Yes we have problems. Many, many problems. And we had testing issues and we are still resolving them. Nobody is perfect. But we are not giving up and what has happened in your areas, according to you, is not happening here, at least not without a fight and yes there is a big fight but we are going to win.

 

The floor-becomes-ceiling here won't happen here I won't let it. Me. That's right, I'm going to take personal responsibility for this. One person. Starts here. Right here, right now. I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen or die trying.

 

Luckily I share this attitude with many of my neighbors.

 

There are other like-minded people around who haven't given up, either. Yay!

 

Recently, some of our high schools refused testing. They didn't have to refuse standards to refuse testing. They refused testing. They took a principled stand and they aren't alone.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/01/11/teachers-refuse-to-give-standardized-test-at-seattle-high-school/

 

You may be shocked but so far no storm troopers have come in to arrest everybody. Actually, the movement has gained traction.

 

What, people effecting change? What is this thing you are talking about? A community taking responsibility?

 

Our system is not perfect. Nobody is saying it is. But insisting that one program is going to cause the end of calculus instruction in our public schools--well we can let that happen or we can participate in a system so that it does not happen. And I do believe it is possible and I will be the one to make sure it happens if necessary. Taking a non-combative, participatory stance helps.

 

I'm very proud of our local high school which is one of the top 150 most challenging in spite of the fact that 53% of children speak a language other than English at home and 41% qualify for free or reduced lunch. Please do not tell me we succeed here because we do not have poverty. It's a lie.

 

Here are some more stories of people standing up and making hard decisions:

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022125372_edlabwhitecenterxml.html

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/education/2023848965_edlabtoppenishxml.html

 

Suppose the parents had all sat back and said, "well I guess now the floor is the new ceiling"? What if people didn't dedicate their lives to these children?

 

I realize there are parts of the country where education is so completely messed up, and the entire government is so incredibly corrupt, that this is not happening. And I am sorry.

 

But the problem there is not standards. The problem is not the fact that government exists. The problem is corruption. End corruption, not education. End graft, not standards. Be the change.

 

I mean what is the alternative here? No tests? No standards? No public schools? Only people who can survive on one income can educate their children? Is that really an option?

 

And I'm sure someone will come back to me and say, "Well I do participate in my community but it still sucks."

 

Good for you and I'm sorry your community sucks--I really am. My heart breaks for Florida.

 

Feel free to tell us about what has happened in your schools. Do not presume to tell us that this is the inevitable result of standards everywhere.

 

Clearly, standards have not caused the floor to be the ceiling in Finland. "Every school has the same national goals and draws from the same pool of university-trained educators."

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/#fAEXGOVKiV7uvoRv.99
 

No, they do not teach to the test. But again, again, again, let me repeat--the common core does not in and of itself require testing.

 

Just because some want to attach a minimal standard to testing does not mean that it is inevitable. People have refused. People are refusing.

 

Stop buying the line that we can't do anything about it. It's too easy. Honestly, if I were a conspiracy theorist I'd say your reaction is exactly what they want: drop out, give up hope.

 

But that nagging feeling that they want me to give up and stop fighting is exactly why I keep going.

 

 

[Tsuga]

You did not reply to the very specific points I made of people in my state actually doing just that--namely, not caving to the very same NCLB requirement (funding based on test score linked teacher reviews) as well as school revolts again testing.

 

You also did not respond to the fact that we already have standardized testing and standards and we still have music.

 

I will also say our high unionization as well as recent small victories by unions supported by teachers (they stood by our grocery workers) suggests they are gearing up.

 

My state is not a special snowflake but someone has to go first. We lost the NCLB waiver and we also have a huge funding issue. We are in a unique situation which could lead to a strike very soon, so let's see. Voters inWA recently did approve a proposal that would require legislature to fully fund education--that was after losing the waiver. So we shall see.

 

As for ignoring you, thanks burn case you could not tell, I'm not one to stick my head in a hole.

 

You won't get rid of me that easily.

 

Apologies for typos I'm on the app on my phone.

[pwicks]

I live in NJ and we are one of the 10 states left who are still doing the PARCC testing (and we parents are fighting hard against this)....

 

this is the BEST link I have seen to discuss the Common core Math standards it is by Maria from Mammoth math:

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/common-core.php

 

She sums up my opinion better than I could have... My district is "in bed with Pearson" so it is all my kids see at school (I afterschool them in math to ensure they have a second view of it). I have seen some of these crazy math problems.... the Pearson math curriculum has some word problems with words my 1st grader could not read (mind you she reads at a 2nd grade level!). Pearson has moved to fast too hard and its just sloppy.

 

ANyway... I am concerned about how my district is going to handle highschool math.... because there are a lot of optional topics which schools don't have to teach. But I am so far from that (my oldest is in 1st grade)... I'm going to give it another few years before I worry about that.

 

I don't know enough about english but I think I need to start looking into that.