What's your opinion on the use of e-gadgets during dance recitals?

[Perry]

Thanks for all the replies. We didn't take it, and ds did just fine. He had to go stretch his legs a few times, but there was more whining from FIL than my boy.

 

 

2 shows. 3 hours and 20 minutes each. They just keep getting longer and longer.

[Peek a Boo]

ok, I'll add my own 2 cents.....

 

i detest most forms of live art. Or stuff that passes for art. However, the plays we've been involved in have always included direction that "not everyone in the audience is there to watch YOU, so get over that NOW. There are plenty of people there to see YOU- give THOSE people a good performance." If there are performers out there that don't get that little bit of reality, you might want to clue them in.

 

On the flip side, I've taught speaking classes to young kids and have stressed how to BE a good audience, so i understand that there is a time and a place for specific audience reaction. But as an adult, no, in general, kids doing something to get through an event they care little for doesn't bother me.

 

no, a babysitter is not always a good or valid option.

yeah, the siblings will likely just want to watch their own sibling- most of us don't attend events like this unless we have some specific interest in it.

 

if it's dark, then flashing gadgets should be at the back.

of course any e-gadgets should be noiseless.

 

Just because something is called art or someone spent a lot of time working on it does not mean that everyone must appreciate it or react the same way. If it's good, it'll GET my attention.

 

I think training a person to effectively utilize tools to pass the time is certainly appropriate.

I think that if you have a single mom who loves free plays and can't afford a babysitter w/ a child that hates them but will sit w/ his mom playing his game then it seems gracious to let it be.

 

My own kids can handle a solid hour of being a good audience. I realize that not every kid can --even w/ "proper" adult training. :glare:

 

so I'm mostly w/ Heather.

but i think the whole "it's rude to wear hats indoors" rule is stupid too, so i know we're in the minority ;)

[Peek a Boo]

 

I've been involved with theater - directly and indirectly for most of my life, and I have never heard anything phrased that way. ....in fact the actors and musicians I know do expect the audience to be there to see the performance... and to give them the courtesy of their attention.

 

and this is where we will likely simply disagree. A basic understanding of Real People dictates that NOT everyone there will like or appreciate what you do, and there will likely be distractions.

 

Performing, amateur or professional, is hard, *personal* work. It takes courage and concentration, and pieces of your own heart and being.

 

I totally understand that - BTDT w/ hundreds and hundreds of hours put into a single performance, but the world does not revolve around us, even if we ARE on stage. There are real people out there with all kinds of variables in their lives.

 

 

When we go to piano recitals, yes, we're really only interested in our kid/kids... but since the purpose of the performance is to the kids a chance to perform for an audience - to be heard and watched and all that, we give each child our full, respectful attention... if we couldn't do that, we wouldn't participate.... we'd just have our kid do his/her thing for us at home. If there is any value in participating, it has to be for more than each parent getting to hear his/her kid... it's the experience the kids get and the respect for their preparation and hard work.

 

...but part of that experience is learning to deal w/ Real People that WON't appreciate their effort. They get plenty of respect for their effort because MOST of the audience is actually paying attention. Learning that your work is respected doesn't demand that every single person be respectful of it.

 

 

No matter where it is in the house, if the house lights are down and there is light somewhere in the audience, it is a disruption to performers and audience members [house managers, directors, and professional acrots have described this from the performer's perspective - and all audience members are asked to turn off all electronic devices, either in an announcement or in the program, at every performance I've been at because it is a distraction to everyone.]

--------------------

I would ask the house manager for guidance on the theater/production/etc policies and abide by those... but *please* respect the guidelines of the organization you are visiting.

 

I do agree that if the venue itself asks for this, then we follow through. That's not what i understood the OP to be asking tho, so I'm guessing for the sake of THIS thread that no mention has been made. The handful of professional productions we've been to mostly addressed cell phones.

 

 

 

...but if you're playing a computer game, you might never notice the magic happening in front of you.

 

back to my original statement --"magic" is in the eye of the beholder. If I already know what's happening cuz I've seen the rehearsals or am familiar w/ the storyline, and I'm STILL not interested, i reserve the right to NOT look impressed or attentive if i'm truly not.

...and whether I'm interested in the performance or not, once I sit down in the audience, I owe the performers my quiet attention... if I don't like the play/concert/whatever, I can leave at intermission, but until then I've made a committment... and if I can't make that committment, I shouldn't walk in in the first place... I should watch a dvd on the computer at home instead...

 

 

many people DO opt to watch a dvd. But for many kids, it's not a matter of you seeing them eventually, it's a matter of THEM seeing YOU in the audience when they come out on stage.

 

but I disagree in principal w/ who owes whom what, and where a commitment comes into play.

 

I'll agree if it is rephrased to "effectively and appropriately" ... where we disagree is the appropriateness.

 

I'll agree that yes, this is where we disagree :D

 

I do not believe that because I *want* something, that that would justify rudeness and inconsiderate behavior. You can (and have!) argued that it isn't intrinsically rude, but I think arguing that someone will miss something s/he wants or loves is irrelevant to the issue of whether electronic entertainment devices are inherently inappropriate at a live performance.

I have missed a lot of things because my kids weren't ready to share them with me - things I love, things that nourish my heart, so I know that it can be hard and I'm not trying to diminish that reality, but I don't think that justifies inappropriate behavior.

 

yes, but again, we disagree on what constitutes inappropriate behavior. And it obviously DOES become relevant for lots of families, which is why we are having this discussion in the first place :)

 

 

I agree that not every kid reaches the same developmental landmarks at the same time... but without providing the guidance and training, it's a lot harder for kids to acquire these skills... and it doesn't just magically develop -

 

agreed.

 

I don't have any issue with hats - unless they are blocking my view of the stage. ;) I only get worked up over what seem to me issues of extreme disrespect/discourtesy....

 

oh! you've missed the hat threads! .... suffice it to say that a majority of the people feel as strongly about boys and men wearing hats indoors as you feel about this topic :D

 

I'm tired and incoherent... but you probably get my general feelings well enough... :) ...someday we'll shock each other and turn up on the same side of an issue, but it's always nice to hear your thoughts, Peek.

 

LOL! I thought you did a fine job. Like i said- I already know I'm in the minority, so i don't expect a big waytogo! fest....

 

And if you really have no problem w/ boys/men wearing most hats indoors, then prepare to be shocked..... ;)

[Perry]

 

 

No matter where it is in the house, if the house lights are down and there is light somewhere in the audience, it is a disruption to performers and audience members [house managers, directors, and professional acrots have described this from the performer's perspective - and all audience members are asked to turn off all electronic devices, either in an announcement or in the program, at every performance I've been at because it is a distraction to everyone.

 

 

Now... I've never been to a kids' dance recital and have no idea what is customary, potentially disruptive, or anything else...

 

I agree with much of what you say. In principle, I don't like the idea of a child not paying attention, or at least appearing to not pay attention, to the performance. But for me, the bigger issue is whether it bothers the other audience members or performers. As far as the glow from the screen, there is no way a dancer on the stage would be distracted by it or even aware of it. I don't know anything about stage lighting, so I don't know the right terms, but it was done professionally and there were lots of flashing and roving lights, which frequently passed over and around the audience. One of those lights, beamed into the audience, was incredibly intense and bright, and was so blinding that you really couldn't even watch the performance. Luckily, that light was only used for 2 or 3 dances. I found those things far more annoying than any Game Boy.

 

I'm sure all dance recitals are different and have their own flavor. Ours is a little rowdy, with a lot of very enthusiastic parents, lots of clapping and a little yelling. These are not quiet affairs. Audience involvement is encouraged.

 

If I saw a kid playing a Game Boy at a professional ballet performance, I would be horrified.

[fivetails]

Okay.. as the Mum of a special needs kiddo who sometimes *needs* to put on his heaphones and music player, regardless of what kind of event we're at, I'd just like to ask people to keep in mind that you may not know the entire story as to *why* a child has a "gadget". :)

 

(Yes, I realize that this thread wasn't really intended for that sort of situation, but I have seen a few people make some flat out statements about the use of "gadgets", period, and I figured this could use some saying.)

[katilac]

Okay.. as the Mum of a special needs kiddo who sometimes *needs* to put on his heaphones and music player, regardless of what kind of event we're at, I'd just like to ask people to keep in mind that you may not know the entire story as to *why* a child has a "gadget". :)

 

(Yes, I realize that this thread wasn't really intended for that sort of situation, but I have seen a few people make some flat out statements about the use of "gadgets", period, and I figured this could use some saying.)

 

Headphones and music player can at least be very unobtrusive (no flashing lights, and it's actually quite possible to wear your ipod almost 'invisibly').

 

While I do try to keep special needs in mind when I see these things, I would still ask the usher to intervene if someone has a gameboy or such. If it were an ipod, obviously not (because it's not bothering me, no matter what I think of it).

[Laura R (FL)]

Headphones do not bother me and my oldest wore headphones for her sister's recital. It was 3 hrs long.

 

I think the use of anything with lights is distracting to the audience. We are season ticket holders to the ballet and if someone turns on their phone with the little light, it is so distracting from the performance that I sooooo want to enjoy!

[Heather in Neverland]

While I do try to keep special needs in mind when I see these things, I would still ask the usher to intervene if someone has a gameboy or such. If it were an ipod, obviously not (because it's not bothering me, no matter what I think of it).

 

This made me giggle a little bit. :D If it were a professional ballet performance or the Detroit Symphony Orchestra...well, it wouldn't be an issue because I know my kids would not want to sit through that and since no one I know personally is performing in it, I just wouldn't go.

 

But a local dance recital? If an "usher" at our local dance recital came up to me and told me to have my son put away his QUIET e-gadget I would tell him to bug off. Politely of course. :D Perry is right, the performers cannot see one tiny light from an e-gadget on stage (stage lights make it hard to see the audience at all...I have acted on stage so I know from personal experience).

[yvonne]

I believe that if a child cannot sit politely and focus on the live performance, then s/he should not be there at all. I feel that bringing other entertainment devices along is training a kid in inappropriate behavior... and it is, imnsho, appallingly rude and disrespectful to the performers.

 

:iagree: :iagree:

[yvonne]

the performers cannot see one tiny light from an e-gadget on stage (stage lights make it hard to see the audience at all.

 

Yes, but it does bother the people around you.

 

If it were a professional ballet performance or the Detroit Symphony Orchestra...well, .... since no one I know personally is performing in it, I just wouldn't go.

 

But a local dance recital? If an "usher" at our local dance recital came up to me and told me to have my son put away his QUIET e-gadget I would tell him to bug off.

 

That's sad, Heather. To the kids performing in the recital, it is as big a deal as a "professional" performance.

 

 

What's even sadder is to model for your child that, not only is it ok to be rude to the performers and to the people who have the misfortune to sit near you by bringing some annoying toy to play with, but it's also ok to be rude to someone who asks you to put away the toy because it's bothering others.

 

Wow.

 

Leave your child at home! OR take the time to train him to at least be polite during an event. Who knows.... Maybe he'll surprise you and enjoy it. Kids tend to rise to the occasion when we help them do so.

 

(I should probably add that I'm hypersensitive to this right now because we were at a dress rehearsal for an opera last week, attended mostly by school (hs & ps) groups. I found all the "one tiny lights" glowing here and there to be very distracting. I was especially appalled at the teens texting during the performance. My 6 yo and two 8 year olds sat through the entire performance, without causing any disruptions, and actually _enjoyed_ the opera. The children with gameboys and the teens with cellphones would have had a better time sitting out in the lobby and it would have made for a more pleasant experience for the rest of us in the audience.)

Edited May 4, 2009 by yvonne

[Heather in Neverland]

Yes, but it does bother the people around you.

 

 

 

That's sad, Heather. To the kids performing in the recital, it is as big a deal as a "professional" performance.

 

 

What's even sadder is to model for your child that, not only is it ok to be rude to the performers and to the people who have the misfortune to sit near you by bringing some annoying toy to play with, but it's also ok to be rude to someone who asks you to put away the toy because it's bothering others.

 

Wow.

 

Leave your child at home! OR take the time to train him to at least be polite during an event. Who knows.... Maybe he'll surprise you and enjoy it. Kids tend to rise to the occasion when we help them do so.

 

No, what's sad is that your definition of rude and my definition of rude are different and you can't accept that.

 

If you and your small child were sitting next to me and your child was being very still and very quiet and simply playing with something the emitted a tiny amount of light, I would be grateful that you brought something to occupy him. I would NOT judge you for it and I certainly would NOT "call the usher over to handle it". Give me a break.

 

We are talking about a little kid not an adult. If an adult were talking loudly on a cell phone during a performance I could see why you would be upset but we are talking about a little kid making no noise at all. Relax for goodness sake. Maybe you shouldn't be so easily "bothered".

[Laura R (FL)]

This made me giggle a little bit. :D If it were a professional ballet performance or the Detroit Symphony Orchestra...well, it wouldn't be an issue because I know my kids would not want to sit through that and since no one I know personally is performing in it, I just wouldn't go.

 

 

 

After I read this...there are different instances. I am much more tolerant in my head at our school dance recitals than I am at professional ballet performances. At a family recital I expect little kids and the extra noise, etc so I lighten up. But the young girls sitting close to me talking through the first act of our professional production of Romeo and Juliet with a live orchestra certainly made my blood pressure go up a bit! :lol:

[yvonne]

No, what's sad is that your definition of rude and my definition of rude are different and you can't accept that.

 

I would NOT judge you for it and I certainly would NOT "call the usher over to handle it". Give me a break.

 

We are talking about a little kid not an adult.

 

Relax for goodness sake. Maybe you shouldn't be so easily "bothered".

 

 

Heaven forbid anyone judge anyone else and, especially, dare to point it out! Some things are just, plain rude.

 

Yep, he's a little kid. Leave him at home and let everyone else enjoy the performance.

[Perry]

Yep, he's a little kid. Leave him at home and let everyone else enjoy the performance.

 

But if we leave them at home, they never have a chance to learn how to enjoy the performing arts. I agree that if they are going to play the toy the entire time and never look at the performance, they may as well stay at home. But I'm not sure it's rude to take an occasional game boy break from time to time during a 3 hour performance, as long as the light isn't distracting to others.

 

I would prefer my kids didn't do it. The light would bother me if it was right next me. But it wouldn't bother me as much as a whining, wiggling, restless kid. At 11 my kid better not act like that, but I don't know too many 5 year old boys that would be able to sit quietly that long. But if we want them to learn to sit quietly during a performance, we're going to have to actually bring them to some performances, and not leave them at home.

[Heather in Neverland]

Heaven forbid anyone judge anyone else and, especially, dare to point it out! Some things are just, plain rude.

 

Yep, he's a little kid. Leave him at home and let everyone else enjoy the performance.

 

I agree. Some things ARE just plain RUDE.

[Heather in Neverland]

But if we leave them at home, they never have a chance to learn how to enjoy the performing arts. I agree that if they are going to play the toy the entire time and never look at the performance, they may as well stay at home. But I'm not sure it's rude to take an occasional game boy break from time to time during a 3 hour performance, as long as the light isn't distracting to others.

 

I would prefer my kids didn't do it. The light would bother me if it was right next me. But it wouldn't bother me as much as a whining, wiggling, restless kid. At 11 my kid better not act like that, but I don't know too many 5 year old boys that would be able to sit quietly that long. But if we want them to learn to sit quietly during a performance, we're going to have to actually bring them to some performances, and not leave them at home.

 

I agree and what's being assumed by many is that the very second the lights go down, out come the e-gadgets and they stay out until the lights go back up. Not so. my 5yo ds WILL watch for a while...and then he'll start getting bored (3 hours is a long time)..and I will do my best to keep him still and quiet...but then he'll get REALLY bored and that's when the e-gadgets come out.

 

We could all stand to be a little more tolerant of each other. If I saw some other mom letting her young child play with an e-gadget I would smile and think "Boy, I have been there!" I would NOT turn up my nose at her and think "How rude! She must not have taught her children ANY manners. I am calling the usher over!!!"

[yvonne]

But if we leave them at home, they never have a chance to learn how to enjoy the performing arts.

 

Thanks, Perry. I do agree with the fact that little ones have to start somewhere.

 

When we started, we would go to a performance and stay as long as the children were polite and interested. If/when one started to get antsy, we would leave. Sometimes, I was fortunate to have my husband with me so that one of us could leave with the antsy one so the others could stay and enjoy the rest of the performance.

 

Yeah, it's kind of a bummer to lose the ticket money when we couldn't stay all the way through, but I don't think it's fair to ask every other person in the audience to pay for my training my child, kwim?

 

yvonne

[Perry]

but I don't think it's fair to ask every other person in the audience to pay for my training my child, kwim?

 

yvonne

 

I wouldn't dream of asking for every other audience member to be involved in training my child. I wouldn't want to inconvenience even one person, let alone a whole audience! If I did allow my kid to play the Game Boy, it would only be under the condition that no one was bothered by it- he'd have to sit in the last row, or go to the lobby.

 

This has been an interesting conversation. I appreciate all the viewpoints.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Generally speaking, I think it's rude but there are always exceptions. :)

 

3+ hour recitals, parents who have no other options but still want to go – these would be exceptions, so I try not to let it bother me when I see it.

 

At my dd's school play (pre-k to grade 8) ,which lasted about an hour - it was Pocohontas, my ds was with me, dh was at work (as my dd had a very, very small part; basically she ran across the stage in an indian dress :) ), my ds was fine with watching the play but another kid in our row had a video game thing with him and my ds was fascinated (although he has seen them before and never showed any interest) and kept poking me and looking at this kid play this game so I was really wishing this kid didn't bring it because it was distracting to my ds.

[KidsHappen]

No, what's sad is that your definition of rude and my definition of rude are different and you can't accept that.

 

If you and your small child were sitting next to me and your child was being very still and very quiet and simply playing with something the emitted a tiny amount of light, I would be grateful that you brought something to occupy him. I would NOT judge you for it and I certainly would NOT "call the usher over to handle it". Give me a break.

 

We are talking about a little kid not an adult. If an adult were talking loudly on a cell phone during a performance I could see why you would be upset but we are talking about a little kid making no noise at all. Relax for goodness sake. Maybe you shouldn't be so easily "bothered".

 

I absolutely agree with you here Heather. If my child was playing quietly and the gadget itself was quiet I would find it very rude indeed if someone asked me to stop them or to call the usher on me. I am bothered by a lot of things in life but that does not give me the right to go around asking the rest of the world to conform to my standards. You enforce your standards for your child and I will enforce my standards for my child. Many people here seem to be more upset by the very concept than the fact that it is causing a real disturbance and IMO that is their problem.

[Margaret in GA]

Wow. This is a great and, in my case, timely thread. My 9 yo has been begging to get a DS all weekend after having a friend over with one. You all have reminded me why I had such a firm stand against these things for years for the older ds (now 12). I can't imagine sitting through a 3 hour recital. And I won't judge people that resort to these things there. BUT, in a restaurant? In the car? At family gatherings? I think it gets to be too much plugging into crap and tuning out of life.

 

The worst case of over-use was the parent that told me "the only way" she could get her 10 yo to her friend's (my sister in law's) wedding was to allow him to bring his DS. It was a short service and the kid played that thing the whole time. He even played it during the reception. My kids were dancing and having a blast with all the other kids and this poor guy sat in a corner, never interacting with anything but this toy. Sad.

 

Margaret

[katilac]

But if we leave them at home, they never have a chance to learn how to enjoy the performing arts. I agree that if they are going to play the toy the entire time and never look at the performance, they may as well stay at home. But I'm not sure it's rude to take an occasional game boy break from time to time during a 3 hour performance, as long as the light isn't distracting to others.

 

I would prefer my kids didn't do it. The light would bother me if it was right next me. But it wouldn't bother me as much as a whining, wiggling, restless kid. At 11 my kid better not act like that, but I don't know too many 5 year old boys that would be able to sit quietly that long. But if we want them to learn to sit quietly during a performance, we're going to have to actually bring them to some performances, and not leave them at home.

 

Yes, they need to learn, but a much better way to teach them is to start with short, lively performances and gradually increase the time and attention required.

 

There are also tons of other training oppurtunities in day to day life; a child can pick up the "still and quiet" skills needed for a live performance by first learning to be fairly quiet in other situations: in the grocery store, in church, while visiting with groups that have varying conversations going on, etc etc.

[katilac]

I absolutely agree with you here Heather. If my child was playing quietly and the gadget itself was quiet I would find it very rude indeed if someone asked me to stop them or to call the usher on me. I am bothered by a lot of things in life but that does not give me the right to go around asking the rest of the world to conform to my standards. You enforce your standards for your child and I will enforce my standards for my child. Many people here seem to be more upset by the very concept than the fact that it is causing a real disturbance and IMO that is their problem.

 

Do you guys just completely discount the idea that a lighted screen in a dark theatre IS a disturbance and a distraction to many people trying to enjoy a performance?

 

The 'concept' does disturb me, but that's my problem. I will only ask an usher to intervene if the device is actually bothering me. Hence, as a I said in another post, I would not call them over for an ipod, but I would call them over for a gameboy.

 

There are certain accepted standards when in public, and I think it's more than fine to ask someone in authority to intervene if those standards are not being met. In a restaurant, I call for the wait staff if someone is disturbing me, whether it's an adult using inappropriate language or a child who won't stop screaming. I don't see this as any different.

[katilac]

This made me giggle a little bit. :D If it were a professional ballet performance or the Detroit Symphony Orchestra...well, it wouldn't be an issue because I know my kids would not want to sit through that and since no one I know personally is performing in it, I just wouldn't go.

 

But a local dance recital? If an "usher" at our local dance recital came up to me and told me to have my son put away his QUIET e-gadget I would tell him to bug off. Politely of course. :D Perry is right, the performers cannot see one tiny light from an e-gadget on stage (stage lights make it hard to see the audience at all...I have acted on stage so I know from personal experience).

 

Again, not just the performers but other audience members are bothered by the light. If a device is not bothering me, I say nothing. But a lilghted screen in a dark area does very much bother me; it's very annoying and distracting, and I would say something. If I could hear the ipod, I would also say something

 

But a local dance recital? If an "usher" at our local dance recital came up to me and told me to have my son put away his QUIET e-gadget I would tell him to bug off. Politely of course.

 

Again, I think it's very sad that so many adults think that politeness at a performance is somehow linked to the price of the tickets, the fame of the performer, or whether you are related to them. And ignoring a polite request from an usher? Not behavior I'd want to model to my children, but to each his own.

[Mommy22alyns]

I think it's extremely rude, no matter what the age of the child is. Kids need to learn to show respect for the performers and the parents need to find quiet, non-distracting ways to keep a very young child happy. If necessary, the very young should be removed from the theater (I'm thinking 4 and under here).

 

And I have a young child, so I'm not just spouting nonsense.

 

We do have Leapsters and one DS that the girls and I share. Use is carefully monitored and restricted and while I wouldn't hesitate to use them in a doctor's office, I refuse to use them as a crutch in situations like dance recitals, weddings, church (if we went), etc.

[yvonne]

If I did allow my kid to play the Game Boy, it would only be under the condition that no one was bothered by it- he'd have to sit in the last row, or go to the lobby.

 

 

Exactly.

[Heather in Neverland]

Again, not just the performers but other audience members are bothered by the light. If a device is not bothering me, I say nothing. But a lilghted screen in a dark area does very much bother me; it's very annoying and distracting, and I would say something. If I could hear the ipod, I would also say something

 

But a local dance recital? If an "usher" at our local dance recital came up to me and told me to have my son put away his QUIET e-gadget I would tell him to bug off. Politely of course.

 

Again, I think it's very sad that so many adults think that politeness at a performance is somehow linked to the price of the tickets, the fame of the performer, or whether you are related to them. And ignoring a polite request from an usher? Not behavior I'd want to model to my children, but to each his own.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Being so easily irritated that I would tattle to an usher is definitely not a behavior I would model for my child. I teach them to be a little more patient and accepting.

[Heather in Neverland]

There are certain accepted standards when in public, and I think it's more than fine to ask someone in authority to intervene if those standards are not being met. In a restaurant, I call for the wait staff if someone is disturbing me, whether it's an adult using inappropriate language or a child who won't stop screaming. I don't see this as any different.

 

Could I have a copy of this "standards" book? Because there are A LOT of things I see in public that I don't PERSONALLY find acceptable but others have no problem with.

[TN Mama]

I've been to several performances where it was announced over the intercom system to please power off all electronic devices. :thumbup: I do have to say, for the most part this has been a very nice conversation and at the same time I am surprised (should I be? probably not) at how ruffled some feathers are getting.

[teamturner]

3 hours is outrageously too long!!! I don't think any dance studio should ever have a recital of that length. When my dd did dance, her studio had 3 separate recitals about 45 minutes (or less) long and they were back to back so people didn't have to watch every single class do their routine. I was thankful that we didn't have to watch the older girls do their, imo, inappropriate dances/costumes. I would find a different studio next year and this year let my dh take the boy/s home after his sister performs. SHEESH!!! That's crazy!

[mommy2be]

Can I just say to those of you that believe that there are certain ways they expect everyone to act in public and complain or make a fuss if someone isn't acting how they would like - that's just one of those things that you have to learn to live with!

 

If you go to a movie you should almost expect either a crying kid, a persons cell phone ringing, someone sitting near you who has to comment on everything - whatever. You should know better as an adult that you won't have a perfect experience every time! There are too many different types of people in this world, who have all been raised differently to expect them all to act how YOU see acceptable.

 

Same goes for eating out - you should almost expect a rude person next to you, a kid making a mess, a rude waiter or waitress... whatever it may be.

 

My point is that as a mature adult you should accepted the fact long ago that things are not always how we would like them to be, and life is too short and precious to get your panties in a wad everytime something isn't going how you would like it to. Worry about your own family...

 

I agree - it would be nice to have a good time and everything go nicely everytime we go out to do something in public - but we don't live in Pleasantville and we're not all 'Stepford Wives' so just take a deep breath and turn your head! Pick your battles - it's not important to make a big fuss over something like that! You will most likely never see these people again in your life - so why try to teach them some sort of lesson? There's no sense in getting yourself all in a tissy over something so silly!

 

Not trying to be rude or offend anybody... but do things how you want and accept the fact that not everybody else does things your way...

 

:chillpill:

[TN Mama]

Can I just say to those of you that believe that there are certain ways they expect everyone to act in public and complain or make a fuss if someone isn't acting how they would like - that's just one of those things that you have to learn to live with!

 

If you go to a movie you should almost expect either a crying kid, a persons cell phone ringing, someone sitting near you who has to comment on everything - whatever. You should know better as an adult that you won't have a perfect experience every time! There are too many different types of people in this world, who have all been raised differently to expect them all to act how YOU see acceptable.

 

Same goes for eating out - you should almost expect a rude person next to you, a kid making a mess, a rude waiter or waitress... whatever it may be.

 

My point is that as a mature adult you should accepted the fact long ago that things are not always how we would like them to be, and life is too short and precious to get your panties in a wad everytime something isn't going how you would like it to. Worry about your own family...

 

I agree - it would be nice to have a good time and everything go nicely everytime we go out to do something in public - but we don't live in Pleasantville and we're not all 'Stepford Wives' so just take a deep breath and turn your head! Pick your battles - it's not important to make a big fuss over something like that! You will most likely never see these people again in your life - so why try to teach them some sort of lesson? There's no sense in getting yourself all in a tissy over something so silly!

 

Not trying to be rude or offend anybody... but do things how you want and accept the fact that not everybody else does things your way...

 

:chillpill:

 

Heaven forbid someone is annoyed by a crying baby or ringing cell phone in the movie theater. Why should I have to accept people's rude behavior? By the way, while I disagree with allowing a electronic gaming device during a performance I don't consider it the same thing as someone being rude with their crying baby or cell phone in a movie theater. I wouldn't complain to the ushers at the movie theater, unless it was repeatedly happening, but for the life of me I cannot understand why I should EXPECT people to be rude. IMO, this is exactly what is wrong in our culture today. We don't expect people to act right, so why in the world should they?

[Perry]

 

On the one hand, I think your distinction is very reasonable - the atmosphere is different, audience expectations are different, and performer expectations are different... on the other hand, I think the principles are the same, if that makes any sense. (If I hadn't thought so I'd have stayed out of the thread altogether since I have no experience with dance recitals!)

 

 

 

I'm wondering if people are bothered mainly because they would find the light from the screen distracting, or if they are more bothered by the principle of the thing. Would it be different if the child was coloring or playing Sudoku or quietly reading a book?

 

As I was looking around the audience yesterday, I saw a few kids quietly playing their DS. I have to admit, while I could see the faint glow of the screen, I didn't see them unless I was looking for them, and if I were looking at the stage, I couldn't see them at all. I asked my girls if they could see them from the audience and they said they couldn't see anything because of the stage lights.

[mommy2be]

Heaven forbid someone is annoyed by a crying baby or ringing cell phone in the movie theater. Why should I have to accept people's rude behavior? By the way, while I disagree with allowing a electronic gaming device during a performance I don't consider it the same thing as someone being rude with their crying baby or cell phone in a movie theater. I wouldn't complain to the ushers at the movie theater, unless it was repeatedly happening, but for the life of me I cannot understand why I should EXPECT people to be rude. IMO, this is exactly what is wrong in our culture today. We don't expect people to act right, so why in the world should they?

 

It would be wonderful if everyone in this world acted as we saw fit - but it's just not realistic... My point is that you shouldn't get in a tissy over something you really can't control... That's all!

[TN Mama]

It would be wonderful if everyone in this world acted as we saw fit - but it's just not realistic... My point is that you shouldn't get in a tissy over something you really can't control... That's all!

 

Well, I agree with you there. I do try not to get in a tizzy about much. However, I certainly don't expect rudeness, nor do I write if off just because it isn't "realistic" to expect more from others.

 

After reading my previous post, I want to clarify that I'm not ranting at YOU, but at situations that seem to have become the norm. Saddens me.

[scrappyhappymama]

I just read through this entire thread, and while I can appreciate the sentiments of the parents who feel it is too much to expect a young child to sit through a three hour performance without other (specifically electronic) distractions, I don't think it changes the fact that many people consider playing games or texting or listening to other music in these circumstances to be rude.

 

Every family has the right to decide what the standards are for their own families, but we don't get to decide what appears to be rude to other people. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder so to speak, we cannot simply demand acceptance of our 'rude' behavior because we feel it is justified. If circumstances demand it, perhaps simply acknowledging that "yes, I realize some people will consider this to be rude, but in my circumstance I choose the well being of my child over the good opinion of others." There are certainly circumstances where I have found myself making this choice, BUT I do try to remove myself and my child from the situation as soon as is practicable to avoid continuing to inconvenience others.

 

Three hours is incredibly long, but there are just some things that take that long! How about graduation ceremonies? Or a showing of Lord of the Rings at the theater. Somehow, I think most 10 year olds could manage to sit through LOTR without some other distraction, if that is their kind of movie. And that's where the principle comes in. It's not polite to sit through 3 hours of some form of entertainment that you do like, but refuse to do so for another that doesn't interest you as much. For me, a 3 hour long graduation ceremony, of which about 1-2 minutes actually personally interests me, is pretty much torture, but I do it for people I care about.

 

And that kind of behavior has to be learned, not just expected to magically materialize at an appropriate age. Where do we think the teenagers with their feet on the stage or who text on the front row come from? Or the adults who take cell phone calls in the middle of performances or text through an entire movie, not knowing or not caring how distracting their "one little light" is in a darkened theater? Somehow, these folks got the idea that their personal entertainment is more important than the comfort of the people around them, and that there is no value in learning to selflessly give of your time for the benefit of others.

[Heather in Neverland]

Every family has the right to decide what the standards are for their own families, but we don't get to decide what appears to be rude to other people. Rudeness is in the eye of the beholder so to speak, we cannot simply demand acceptance of our 'rude' behavior because we feel it is justified. If circumstances demand it, perhaps simply acknowledging that "yes, I realize some people will consider this to be rude, but in my circumstance I choose the well being of my child over the good opinion of others."

 

You are right...rudeness IS in the eye of the beholder and while you assert that I cannot simply demand that you accept my "rude" behavior, I would posit that I do not have to simply accept your definition of "rude".

 

The sentence might read "yes, I realize some people will consider this to be rude, but I also know just as many people who do NOT consider this rude and in my circumstance I choose the well-being of my child over the good opinion of others."

 

And FTR, I will ALWAYS choose the well-being of my child over the opinion of others.

 

There are so many things in life to be upset about as a "matter of principle". Is this really the hill you want to die on?

[scrappyhappymama]

You are right...rudeness IS in the eye of the beholder and while you assert that I cannot simply demand that you accept my "rude" behavior, I would posit that I do not have to simply accept your definition of "rude".

 

The sentence might read "yes, I realize some people will consider this to be rude, but I also know just as many people who do NOT consider this rude and in my circumstance I choose the well-being of my child over the good opinion of others."

 

And FTR, I will ALWAYS choose the well-being of my child over the opinion of others.

 

There are so many things in life to be upset about as a "matter of principle". Is this really the hill you want to die on?

 

LOL. Is it the hill I want to die on? No. But it is a matter of principle. Have you looked at the results of the poll? Folks overwhelmingly consider this to be rude behavior.

 

Of course you do not have to accept my definition of rude. :D But that means you can look around at folks and determine whether you consider them to be rude. Or whether you consider your own child's behavior to be rude. But still, it doesn't effect whether many of the rest of us will consider it to be rude.

 

And just to clarify, when I say the well being of my child- I wasn't just referring to their health or safety. OF COURSE that comes before looking rude to others. But would you really choose their comfort, their preferences, or their wishes always over general common courtesy toward others? I honestly doubt that.

 

The thing is- there are lots of options in this situation. No one is forced t attend these functions and our children are not compelled to be there. If it is such a burden on the child, then don't go. Or stay for the performance you came to see and then leave or step out to the lobby or go for a walk and come back. It doesn't have to be the 'learning to deal with boring situations' opportunity, but there are other options than one that many see as rude. Or not. It's ultimately your choice.

[Audrey]

Have you looked at the results of the poll? Folks overwhelmingly consider this to be rude behavior.

 

 

LOL! I just looked at the results for the first time after voting. Glad to see I'm in the majority for a change. But, you know... Heather disagrees and sure, she can do that. She can also let her kids bring their gadgets and play away while the rest of us are trying to be good audience members. And, we can thank her later when we use her kids as the example in that teaching moment she provided for us on how children should NOT behave in an audience. :D

[Heather in Neverland]

Have you looked at the results of the poll? Folks overwhelmingly consider this to be rude behavior.

 

.

 

Yes I have seen the results, but we tend to be a pretty opinionated bunch here on the WTM boards. :D I know PLENTY of people who wouldn't blink an eye at it and these are well-educated, well-mannered, nice people you would probably really like. They just don't sweat the small stuff, ya know?

 

Besides, I think the use of electronic devices in certain social situations is too young of a topic to have such a definitive viewpoint. Times change. It used to be considered rude (and in some places illegal) to curse in front of a woman or child. Now the women and children curse themselves. Also, cursing has been around for thousands of years and NOT cursing in certain situations IS something that you could have a definitive viewpoint on (but we won't agree on ALL the situations...this topic has already been discussed).

 

But all these gadgets are so new to our lives. Who decides when it is rude to use them and when it is not? Some things are obvious....loud conversations on your cell phone during the sermon in church is probably an obvious no. But what about text messaging in a restaurant? It isn't bothering anyone...is that rude? What about surfing the net in a restaurant? If it is then why do these places brag about their wifi capabilities?

 

laptops, cell phones, ipods, gameboys, Kindles, who knows what is next....we are a digital world now like it or not and what is "acceptable" behavior and what is not is going to change faster than some of us may be able or willing to keep up with.

[Heather in Neverland]

And, we can thank her later when we use her kids as the example in that teaching moment she provided for us on how children should NOT behave in an audience. :D

 

Wow Audrey. Do you REALLY want to go there?

[Happy]

Yes I have seen the results, but we tend to be a pretty opinionated bunch here on the WTM boards. :D I know PLENTY of people who wouldn't blink an eye at it and these are well-educated, well-mannered, nice people you would probably really like. They just don't sweat the small stuff, ya know?

 

Besides, I think the use of electronic devices in certain social situations is too young of a topic to have such a definitive viewpoint. Times change. It used to be considered rude (and in some places illegal) to curse in front of a woman or child. Now the women and children curse themselves. Also, cursing has been around for thousands of years and NOT cursing in certain situations IS something that you could have a definitive viewpoint on (but we won't agree on ALL the situations...this topic has already been discussed).

 

But all these gadgets are so new to our lives. Who decides when it is rude to use them and when it is not? Some things are obvious....loud conversations on your cell phone during the sermon in church is probably an obvious no. But what about text messaging in a restaurant? It isn't bothering anyone...is that rude? What about surfing the net in a restaurant? If it is then why do these places brag about their wifi capabilities?

 

laptops, cell phones, ipods, gameboys, Kindles, who knows what is next....we are a digital world now like it or not and what is "acceptable" behavior and what is not is going to change faster than some of us may be able or willing to keep up with.

 

If you are with other people who are attempting conversation with you at the coffeeshop or restaurant, then texting or surfing or chatting on the phone or internet is rude. If you are alone, then surf or text to your heart's content. I think a joint viewing of a performance or a movie counts as a social contract with other viewers and should be honored as such.

 

One of my newest pet peeves is people, teens or adults, who feel they must text someone else during dinner, a conversation, or a sermon, for crying out loud. There are a few people I feel I'm not allowed to actually speak to, if I want their attention, I feel I've gotta go electronic to do so. Sheesh.

[Audrey]

Wow Audrey. Do you REALLY want to go there?

Heather, you already did. People disagreed with you and you went on the offense. You are perfect and your children can do whatever they want. When people disagree with you they must be completely wrong.

 

I'm just not afraid to say that's hogwash. We're all entitled to disagree with you, just as you're entitled to disagree with us. The difference is that everyone you cranked at was NOT getting in your face -- you just took it that way because *Gasp!* they kind of said they thought the kind of behaviour that you allow in your kids is behaviour they would classify as rude.

 

If *I* saw your kids doing that in public *I* would use it as an example of how not to treat others in public. And I'm quite sure you'd find plenty of things about ME to point out to your kids, too. I could think of 10 or 20 to get you started even. :D

 

And you know what? I'm cool with that, too.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Audrey

[Guest Chaine]

I cannot answer this poll as it does not have an answer. I was a professional ballerina and have been teaching ballet for about 15 years now. My opinion on dance recitals could make many people more than slightly upset, so I will not go there. However, I will say this. Recitals "should" demonstrate a portion of what the class has accomplished over the course of the year so the audience should be respectful of this. But the dance school itself should be respectful of the fact that there are many young children as well as adults in the audience who do not wish to sit through hours of pieces performed by dancers they do not know. It is the school's responsibility to split the performance up in a way that is not only tolerable to the audience but also educational. If it were done this way, there would be no need for this poll.

[Heather in Neverland]

Heather, you already did. People disagreed with you and you went on the offense. You are perfect and your children can do whatever they want. When people disagree with you they must be completely wrong.

 

I'm just not afraid to say that's hogwash. We're all entitled to disagree with you, just as you're entitled to disagree with us. The difference is that everyone you cranked at was NOT getting in your face -- you just took it that way because *Gasp!* they kind of said they thought the kind of behaviour that you allow in your kids is behaviour they would classify as rude.

 

If *I* saw your kids doing that in public *I* would use it as an example of how not to treat others in public. And I'm quite sure you'd find plenty of things about ME to point out to your kids, too. I could think of 10 or 20 to get you started even. :D

 

And you know what? I'm cool with that, too.

 

 

No Audrey. You are wrong (although you'll never admit it). This has been a passionate discussion with people discussing it from different viewpoints. Yes I vehemently disagree with many posters on the TOPIC. But at NO POINT did I EVER directly attack someone's CHILDREN or say I would "use them as an example of bad behavior". That's going too far and you know it. Or at least you should. You want to attack me, fine. But leave my kids out of it. You say I could use YOUR children as an example too. Well, here's the difference...I would not do that. And YOU are trying to tell ME what is rude?

 

It WAS an interesting discussion but when someone has to ruin it by coming on and acting completely without class and attacking a poster's children, I refuse to participate any longer. Have fun.

[amy g.]

I have a friend who is teaching Freshman English at UT after years of teaching mostly graduate classes. Her students were honestly SURPRISED that she asked them not to text during class discussions. She said that they are nice kids. They are smart kids, but they have never been taught what used to be considered common courtesy.

 

So for me, the decision not to allow my kids to use electronic devices when they are in an audience, is not because it might offend a stranger, but because I want my children to practice being patient what it is difficult to do, and caring more about other people than their own comfort.

 

With a toddler, I might have to take her out in the lobby for a break, and then come back in, and practice sitting for a period before taking another break. I realize this could be more disruptive than just letting her play her DS, but I believe it is an important skill that I need to teach her.

 

With a 3 or 4 year old, I would allow her to have a sketch book to draw or "write" about what she sees on the stage. With an older child, I would just clearly state my behavioral expectations before arriving, and then I would heap praises on her afterwords for behaving so well.

 

If I had a child that I just knew could not behave, I would split up, and have one parent go to the performance, and one stay home with the younger child.

 

When I see other people's children, using electronic devices during live performances, I assume that the parents have tried every other possibility under the sun before allowing it. It does not in anyway lessen my enjoyment of the event.

[BonAmy]

we are in a big dance studio in Dallas... 2 of our dancers were on So You Think You Can Dance last year, one was in the previous year.

 

Typically on Saturday we are at the rehearsal for 10 hours.... with lots of little brothers and sisters there to watch. It's a full-blown dress rehearsal, lights out, costumes, make-up, etc.

On Sunday, the day of the actual recital, Act 1 lasts 3 to 4 hours. Small intermission with no food available...

then Act 2 lasts 3 to 4 hours. Many dancers have performances in both Acts. There are little kids there for both days...

I have no problem at all with them watching little dvd's, or playing gameboy, etc. It keeps them quiet, they are respectful, there is no running around..

What bothers me at dance recitals are the older folks who can't sit there that long (it's hard!!! I know!!!) and are getting up and down during dances.

 

If the recitals lasted only an hour, I would expect that most kids should be able to sit thru it and pay attention. But upwards of 7 to 10 hours?? no way!

 

It doesn't bother me a bit.

[Peek a Boo]

I think a joint viewing of a performance or a movie counts as a social contract with other viewers and should be honored as such.

 

 

This is another area where i completely disagree.

 

and I'll reiterate-- I am aware that Heather and I [and a couple others] are in the minority. I'll add that Heather's last response to Audrey is one I can agree with.

[TN Mama]

No Audrey. You are wrong (although you'll never admit it). This has been a passionate discussion with people discussing it from different viewpoints. Yes I vehemently disagree with many posters on the TOPIC. But at NO POINT did I EVER directly attack someone's CHILDREN or say I would "use them as an example of bad behavior". That's going too far and you know it. Or at least you should. You want to attack me, fine. But leave my kids out of it. You say I could use YOUR children as an example too. Well, here's the difference...I would not do that. And YOU are trying to tell ME what is rude?

 

It WAS an interesting discussion but when someone has to ruin it by coming on and acting completely without class and attacking a poster's children, I refuse to participate any longer. Have fun.

 

I honestly don't think anyone has attacked anyone else's children in this thread. And I certainly have used an other child's misbehavior as a lesson for my own. I'll even say that I've used one of my own child's misbehavior to teach a lesson to my other child. Is this wrong?

 

 

This is not an attack, but a plea for you to perhaps take a step back and look at this discussion as just that - a discussion - not an attack, because it's just not.

[Margaret in GA]

Yes I have seen the results, but we tend to be a pretty opinionated bunch here on the WTM boards. :D I know PLENTY of people who wouldn't blink an eye at it and these are well-educated, well-mannered, nice people you would probably really like. They just don't sweat the small stuff, ya know?

 

Besides, I think the use of electronic devices in certain social situations is too young of a topic to have such a definitive viewpoint. Times change. It used to be considered rude (and in some places illegal) to curse in front of a woman or child. Now the women and children curse themselves. Also, cursing has been around for thousands of years and NOT cursing in certain situations IS something that you could have a definitive viewpoint on (but we won't agree on ALL the situations...this topic has already been discussed).

 

But all these gadgets are so new to our lives. Who decides when it is rude to use them and when it is not? Some things are obvious....loud conversations on your cell phone during the sermon in church is probably an obvious no. But what about text messaging in a restaurant? It isn't bothering anyone...is that rude? What about surfing the net in a restaurant? If it is then why do these places brag about their wifi capabilities?

 

laptops, cell phones, ipods, gameboys, Kindles, who knows what is next....we are a digital world now like it or not and what is "acceptable" behavior and what is not is going to change faster than some of us may be able or willing to keep up with.

 

Yes, I remember when cell phones got to be really common I was waiting tables (ca. 1992). I was shocked that people would be sitting with family and friends at a restaurant and talking on their cell phones. When I was a kid, we didn't answer the telephone at my house during dinner and suddenly I became aware that people were talking on the phone during dinner out. Of course, even though I thought it was rude I didn't say anything. And I wouldn't say anything to anyone about a DS at a performance. But I still think it's not something I'm going to do.

 

We just finished Farmer Boy (again) with my 9 yo. Poor Almanzo used to have to sit still all day long on Sunday. He actually looked forward to chores so that he could get up and move. Yes, times are changing. I still think it's important to be able to sit still and have some self-discipline. But, I'm not making my kids sit still all day long on the Sabbath. ;)

 

Margaret