Why be PC???

[joannqn]

Everyone is entitled to be offended at anything that is said these days. If I am pc, it is *my* responsibility to not offend. Anyone. At any time. Pc has taken personal responsibility and put it on other people's shoulders.

 

It's happened on this board. One person posts that she's offended, and if we are politically correct, we change our position or our posts to make sure she is not offended.

 

We don't have the right to never be offended, imo. I don't even think I have the right to tell someone *I* am offended. (Not that I never have, though:glare:) I may point out that I think they are incorrect or misled. Why should someone not say what they think or believe, even if it's idiotic, just to not offend me? Why are my feelings more important than someone else's right to talk?

 

I think PC has taken politeness and honesty to a different level. And not necessarily a good one.

 

JMO, of course. YMMV, IIRC, ABCDEFG, and all the other disclaimers required now from pc folks.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Elaine]

For example, kids today don't "sit Indian Style" they sit "like a pretzel".

 

Now was it really that offensive to Native Americans that students are sitting Indian Style? I consider that PC because sitting Indian style never seemed like an insult to begin with! Now, if we had to sit like "dirty savages" then yes, I think we should be more pc ... errr, I mean more decent and respectful!

 

Or, if children couldn't wear eye patches when they were pretend pirates because it upsets people who have to wear an eye patch for corrective vision reasons? That would be PC and so you see that when I think of PC, I think of it as a bad thing.

 

I think what is happening is people are confusing being PC with general, common, human decency! If someone is fat, you shouldn't ask them if they'd like a dozen doughnuts in place of their salad (not because that wouldn't be PC) but because it is rude and hurtful!

 

Insulting people and then complaining that the world is too PC is just plain wrong.

 

I know that you probably didn't mean for this post to be funny, but it really made me laugh.

 

I was once chastised on the playground, by a mother with no sense of humor, because I said to my sister about our collective children that "the natives are getting restless." :chillpill:

Edited April 15, 2009 by Elaine

[Elaine]

Pam, I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head here.

 

Everyone is entitled to be offended at anything that is said these days. If I am pc, it is *my* responsibility to not offend. Anyone. At any time. Pc has taken personal responsibility and put it on other people's shoulders.

 

It's happened on this board. One person posts that she's offended, and if we are politically correct, we change our position or our posts to make sure she is not offended.

 

We don't have the right to never be offended, imo. I don't even think I have the right to tell someone *I* am offended. (Not that I never have, though:glare:) I may point out that I think they are incorrect or misled. Why should someone not say what they think or believe, even if it's idiotic, just to not offend me? Why are my feelings more important than someone else's right to talk?

 

I think PC has taken politeness and honesty to a different level. And not necessarily a good one.

 

JMO, of course. YMMV, IIRC, ABCDEFG, and all the other disclaimers required now from pc folks.

 

If I don't use the "I agree smiley" but instead type out, "I agree" will you be offended?:D

[Jumping In Puddles]

I know that you probably didn't mean for this post to be funny, but it really made me laugh.

 

I was once chastised on the playground, by a mother with no sense of humor, because I said to my sister about our collective children that "the natives are getting restless." :chillpill:

 

:lol: well, I was trying to be ridiculous to get my point across, so I'm glad you laughed.

 

I use the phrase "the natives are getting restless" very often. I dare someone to call me on it. :boxing_smiley:

[Carol in Cal.]

To be loving.

 

We all have to balance kindness and truth, I think. So being PC is on the 'kindness' side, and 'disagreeing without being disagreeable' is on the 'truth' side. Both are quite important.

 

During the 70's everyone was taking stands all over the place, and it was a heady time.

 

During the 50's everyone was sweeping things under the rug a lot, and it was a surface-level peacefulness.

 

Balancing kindness and truth--always being both kind and truthful--balances the best of both eras, while avoiding the worst of either one, I think.

 

 

 

 

(Have not read any of the other responses).

[Elaine]

:lol: well, I was trying to be ridiculous to get my point across, so I'm glad you laughed.

 

I use the phrase "the natives are getting restless" very often. I dare someone to call me on it. :boxing_smiley:

 

Suddenly I am askeered of you! :D

[Elaine]

:lol: well, I was trying to be ridiculous to get my point across, so I'm glad you laughed.

 

I use the phrase "the natives are getting restless" very often. I dare someone to call me on it. :boxing_smiley:

 

 

You don't offend easily either, do you? I think that's why we get along so well. We are the James Carville and Mary Matalin of WTM. :lol:

[Aggie]

It's late, I'm tired and not feeling well, and perhaps a bit grouchy, but here's a fine example of pc.

 

Dec, 2001, a young white military family boards a plane for CONUS. So one certain group of people (radical Islamic terrorists) aren't offended, the airlines insists on strip searching a 4 month old baby. To make sure his parents haven't stuffed a bomb in his diaper.

 

That is why I really hate pc. No grandmoms or babies flew planes into the towers that day, but because of political correctness and not wanting ONE group to be offended, *every* one is subject to drastic and invasive measures.

 

Why couldn't the airlines just search young men with dark skin? HUH?! Because profiling is bad? waaaaaaah Well, young Islamic men committed the crimes, so they have, by default, subjected others who *look like them* to be suspects.

 

When 4yo girls start bombing buildings, you bet I want all 4yo girls searched. Until then, leave them the *&^% alone.

 

It's a bunch of political crapness is what it is, imo.

 

{I realize this post may come off as a tad rude. However, until one is subject to gross misjustices in the name of pc, one may not realize just how ridiculous pc really is.}

[Carol in Cal.]

Something to consider, Aggie, is that if they DON'T search everyone, then someone with a different profile will become the carrier, knowingly or not. That's the nature of a blanket security policy, I think...if you KNOW that there is a group that will not be checked, then you target that group as the means to your nefarious end.

 

We could discuss this whole issue on another basis--the trade off of civil rights vs. safety, and the question of having a free society requiring a certain lack of surveillance--but I think that the example you gave might not actually be an example of PC gone crazy, tempting though it is to think so.

 

It's late, I'm tired and not feeling well, and perhaps a bit grouchy, but here's a fine example of pc.

 

Dec, 2001, a young white military family boards a plane for CONUS. So one certain group of people (radical Islamic terrorists) aren't offended, the airlines insists on strip searching a 4 month old baby. To make sure his parents haven't stuffed a bomb in his diaper.

 

That is why I really hate pc. No grandmoms or babies flew planes into the towers that day, but because of political correctness and not wanting ONE group to be offended, *every* one is subject to drastic and invasive measures.

 

Why couldn't the airlines just search young men with dark skin? HUH?! Because profiling is bad? waaaaaaah Well, young Islamic men committed the crimes, so they have, by default, subjected others who *look like them* to be suspects.

 

When 4yo girls start bombing buildings, you bet I want all 4yo girls searched. Until then, leave them the *&^% alone.

 

It's a bunch of political crapness is what it is, imo.

 

{I realize this post may come off as a tad rude. However, until one is subject to gross misjustices in the name of pc, one may not realize just how ridiculous pc really is.}

[Aggie]

Something to consider, Aggie, is that if they DON'T search everyone, then someone with a different profile will become the carrier, knowingly or not. That's the nature of a blanket security policy, I think...if you KNOW that there is a group that will not be checked, then you target that group as the means to your nefarious end.

 

We could discuss this whole issue on another basis--the trade off of civil rights vs. safety, and the question of having a free society requiring a certain lack of surveillance--but I think that the example you gave might not actually be an example of PC gone crazy, tempting though it is to think so.

 

Good points, Carol. Thank you. And I think the civil rights v safety would be an interesting conversation.:001_smile:

 

We were told (by the head dude who was in charge) at the airport that day that the main reason we were being searched was because of pc. That, of course, could have been his own opinion. I was just so irritated right then that it made sense and made me more irritated. An emotion I obviously carry with me to this day.:lol:

[Peek a Boo]

 

To me, being PC means trying to not offend (which isn't really pc, but common decency) but in a way that seems, maybe, over-the-top trying not to hurt someone's feelings.

For example, kids today don't "sit Indian Style" they sit "like a pretzel".

 

Now was it really that offensive to Native Americans that students are sitting Indian Style? I consider that PC because sitting Indian style never seemed like an insult to begin with! Now, if we had to sit like "dirty savages" then yes, I think we should be more pc ... errr, I mean more decent and respectful!

 

Or, if children couldn't wear eye patches when they were pretend pirates because it upsets people who have to wear an eye patch for corrective vision reasons? That would be PC and so you see that when I think of PC, I think of it as a bad thing.

 

I think what is happening is people are confusing being PC with general, common, human decency! If someone is fat, you shouldn't ask them if they'd like a dozen doughnuts in place of their salad (not because that wouldn't be PC) but because it is rude and hurtful!

 

Insulting people and then complaining that the world is too PC is just plain wrong.

 

for me, PC is when someone has decided to berate others w/ being offended.

 

I don't consider it very kind or polite to insist that other people change a widely-used suitable term just because you don't like its definition.

 

most instances of PC are designed to obfuscate what's really going on. THAT's what bugs me.

 

It's only a "baby/human" if it's planned and wanted. Otherwise it's a generic fetus or a clump of cells/ tissue.

 

instead of having reverse discrimination we have affirmative action.

 

most darker skinned Americans are neither black nor African-American, anymore than i am White or Caucasian ;)

 

we aren't s'posed to call them "Mexicans" [even if they did come here directly from mexico] we are to use the term "Hispanic."

 

shoot, we can't even ask what sex the baby will be --we have to use GENDER now.

 

the politician didn't LIE or screw up- he had a temporary lapse of judgment.

 

if you are married, the guy you are married to is your husband. Even if you DO consider him your partner. and guess what? since dh and I are now legally divorced, we are officially shacking up. better known as....cohabitating :D

 

one list:

[many of these I would deem "extreme marketing" vs true PC]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_examples_of_political_correctness

 

or from this list:

[many of which i think falls under the "better term, not PC" label! but there's a few PC gems....]

http://www.languagemonitor.com/politically_correct

 

The Best: Misguided Criminals for Terrorist

 

Device for master and captured device for slave in computer networking terminology

 

Non-same sex marriage, for marriage used in Democratic Presidential Primaries

 

more here:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-420729/Book-reveals-people-fall-foul-PC-police.html

[Jumping In Puddles]

Suddenly I am askeered of you! :D

 

:smilielol5: Maybe I should have put a wink smilie after the fight one?LOL

 

You don't offend easily either, do you? I think that's why we get along so well. We are the James Carville and Mary Matalin of WTM. :lol:

 

 

:001_wub: but wait, ack! We are agreeing in this thread, right? (right?) :lol:

 

 

 

It's late, I'm tired and not feeling well, and perhaps a bit grouchy, but here's a fine example of pc.

 

 

 

This does seem ridiculous but instead of thinking the guard was being PC, it seems he was lacking in all common sense and decency.

 

for me, PC is when someone has decided to berate others w/ being offended.

 

I don't consider it very kind or polite to insist that other people change a widely-used suitable term just because you don't like its definition.

 

most instances of PC are designed to obfuscate what's really going on. THAT's what bugs me.

 

 

Peek, great post, I agree on all points and that Daily Mail article was hilariously ridiculous and sad at the same time.

 

That's why PC is such a negative term for me. I don't ever want to be PC, but I hope I act courteously and respectful toward other people. (OK, but not to the extent that I want to call terrorists "misguided criminials!"):lol:

 

If I tell someone that they went to a Mickey Mouse school, that is not me putting all political correctness aside, that is me being an insensitive jerk.

 

Politically Correct is not something I think that anyone would want to be. Being upset that kids want to sit Indian Style is not meant to offend Native Americans or Indians, sheesh. It's not insensitive or cruel and is a widely used saying. Humpty fell off the wall and couldn't be put together again -- now changing that story so he can be put together again is against all common sense. If you have a child that is so sensitive to that, then DON'T read/recite it to them but leave the nursery rhyme alone for most others who can handle it. ;) (Some violent fairy tales or nursery rhymes can be updated for very sensitive children without the PC police all over them because some of them are actually very violent but... Humpty?)

Edited April 15, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Jenny in Florida]

Something to consider, Aggie, is that if they DON'T search everyone, then someone with a different profile will become the carrier, knowingly or not. That's the nature of a blanket security policy, I think...if you KNOW that there is a group that will not be checked, then you target that group as the means to your nefarious end.

 

Exactly. If I were bent on causing death and destruction (which I'm not, by the way, just to be clear), and I knew that only a certain "type" of person was being searched, I'd make darned sure not to look like that kind of person.

[Danestress]

I really think we are at a point in our culture where people actually struggle with why they should choose words with care so as not to unnecessarily offend. We value individual freedom to the extent that any suggestion that we should learn to use self control or take care with what we say (or God forbid, sometimes just choose to listen and not feel compelled to spew our own opinions) is met with friction. We have a right to speak. We can say what we want. As long as we are honest, why not insist that our words are always useful and really must be heard?

 

I'm not even sure I know what "politically correct" means. Usually when I hear that word, there is a certain mocking contempt for someone suggesting that a certain way of speaking is offensive to others. When you start with contempt, it shuts down the conversation anyway. When I watch talk shows on TV (and I have flipped around and think surveyed what is out there and not just liberals or conservatives) there is this really ugly contempt for others that is just so striking. Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Hannity, Keith Olbermann - they all have it. It's sort of horrid and I wonder if we will ever have a country again in which people actually listen more than they talk and actually think about how their words might be received.

[Jenny in Florida]

We value individual freedom to the extent that any suggestion that we should learn to use self control or take care with what we say (or God forbid, sometimes just choose to listen and not feel compelled to spew our own opinions) is met with friction. We have a right to speak. We can say what we want. As long as we are honest, why not insist that our words are always useful and really must be heard?

 

You've said that really well. Thank you.

 

I wonder frequently why it is more important to some people to be "right" than to be kind.

 

When I watch talk shows on TV (and I have flipped around and think surveyed what is out there and not just liberals or conservatives) there is this really ugly contempt for others that is just so striking. Lou Dobbs, Glenn Beck, Hannity, Keith Olbermann - they all have it. It's sort of horrid and I wonder if we will ever have a country again in which people actually listen more than they talk and actually think about how their words might be received.

 

I hope so. When I feel helpless and sad about it all, I just try to remember to do my part to make it better.

 

Fortunately, there are others like you who are doing the same thing.

[Haiku]

{I realize this post may come off as a tad rude. However, until one is subject to gross misjustices in the name of pc, one may not realize just how ridiculous pc really is.}

 

How about gross injustices in the name of profiling? Such as the time when my three-year-old nephew was separated from his father (my BIL) at an airport because my BIL looks Arabic (he's not) and my nephew doesn't (he's not) and my BIL was suspected of taking my nephew hostage??

 

Gross injustice is gross injustice no matter what banner it flies under, and strip-searching a 4-month-old is not PC, it's hysteria, which this country has been guilty of for a long, long time, under many, many guises.

 

And yes, your post did come across as rude, because you are stating that innocent people should be subjected to injustice based on someone else's fear, not based on any actual evidence.

 

Tara

[Jumping In Puddles]

I

I'm not even sure I know what "politically correct" means. Usually when I hear that word, there is a certain mocking contempt for someone suggesting that a certain way of speaking is offensive to others.

 

I think that is what the problem is -- the definition of "politically correct". I think of it as negative, throwing all common sense out the window. I would say, that it is common sense to not call someone a retard, because no matter how innocent the origins of the word, it now means something very derogatory and mean. If I see a child on the playground with special needs, I wouldn't say, "go play with the retard" because it is mean, rude, and disrespectful and it is deplorable to hide behind the "sheesh, everyone is sooo PC now, I can't even call someone mentally retarded." You can't do that, not to because you should be PC, but because you should be respectful and kind.

 

Some people are equating PC with good manners, common decency and respect. If that is the case then PC would be a good thing.

 

Ideas and differences can be debated and discussed without being rude or mean spirited and these talk show hosts are counting on people to defend them against "the PC police". I think there is a general lack of respect for differences of opinion.

[Jumping In Puddles]

How about gross injustices in the name of profiling? Such as the time when my three-year-old nephew was separated from his father (my BIL) at an airport because my BIL looks Arabic (he's not) and my nephew doesn't (he's not) and my BIL was suspected of taking my nephew hostage??

 

Gross injustice is gross injustice no matter what banner it flies under, and strip-searching a 4-month-old is not PC, it's hysteria, which this country has been guilty of for a long, long time, under many, many guises.

 

And yes, your post did come across as rude, because you are stating that innocent people should be subjected to injustice based on someone else's fear, not based on any actual evidence.

 

Tara

 

This is, once again, a lack of common sense on the part of security. If the security saw something that didn't look right, I don't think it should be ignored, but how about a few simple questions to clear it up? Direct to the kid a few questions then to the adult. If something is not right, then submit the information to the police as a precaution without detaining the family. When were the tickets purchased?, does the child look afraid of the adult? does the adult look like a specific someone on a poster? I'm sure any good police officer/security guard could size up the situation WITHOUT the strip search of a 4 year old!

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

If you want to feel really sick to your stomach, try this- ask people how race has impacted their life. Most white people will say it hasn't. It's no shock to me that a lot of people don't understand some of the reasons for using PC terminology.

[Stacy in NJ]

I think courtesy is a good thing, but it can become condecension. Speaking in a particular way so as not to offend others assumes that they'll be offended by what we have to say. Possibly people aren't as delicate or easily offended by our ideas as we assume. Also, sometimes folks look for reasons to be offended. Should we indulge their manufactured outrage?

 

Soo, sometimes I speak in ways that I know may offend some. I actively try not to self censor because to have control or "own" our language is to "own" the ideas behind the language. Our speech reveals our ideas; I want to be clear about my ideas.

 

For example, when speaking of social-welfare programs, I usually reference the socially destructive aspects of them as well as the necessity for some.

 

Also, speaking in a particular way lets other know we're part of the "club", that we're socially acceptable, that we're like-minded.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Margaret in GA]

 

"most darker skinned Americans are neither black nor African-American, anymore than i am White or Caucasian ;)"

quote]

 

 

My dad calls African Americans "Coloreds". Are you OK with that? I happen to think it's offensive, and generally the people he's referring to do, too. Is there something wrong with calling people by the term they want to be called by? The thing I hate about "PC" is that it is somehow a dirty word associated with "Big Libs" and "Femi Nazis"-- their terms, not mine. And while I don't think a 4 year old should be strip searched (by the way, I don't even believe they would do that in the middle of an airport), I do believe that a terrorist could strap a bomb to a 4 year old.

[Karen sn]

Can anyone honestly tell me why they would "want" to be PC??????

 

What purpose does it serve?

 

Does it get a point across?

 

Or does it serve as a means to be well-liked?

 

Seriously...I want to know. No snark intended. I just do not understand.

 

Maybe I am just thick-headed????

 

What would the world be like if we were just.................honest??

 

 

If we were honest.....

Well, when I chime in on a secular thread and am honest about how I teach religion and history and what I believe and why - I get attacked by people who feel that my beliefs invalidate their own or that I am simply speaking my mind in order to offend them or cause them to stumble.

 

I find that I actually edit alot of what I say here in order to be more PC because it just isn't worth the hassle to be open.

[Karen sn]

Oh, okay, I think I understand what you are saying.

 

Kind of like how I politely drink my dad's coffee when I want to say, "For crying out loud, Dad -- one scoop per CUP, not one scoop per POT! Please, for the love of all that is decent and right in this world, learn to make a decent cup of coffee!".

 

Or, "Geriatric rights aside, if you can't see over the steering wheel, you shouldn't be on the road!"

 

Like that? :tongue_smilie:

 

Hm.

 

I really can't think of a situation where I feel like I have to choose between being honest and being accepted. I have been blessed to be on the receiving end of consideration and respect from folks (many on this board, in fact) whose world view is vastly different from my own. There is a mutual carefulness in how we express our views, though. If that is being "pc", then it's working for me. ;)

 

But you could ask dad if you can hold your cup under the machine in the beginning and get some of the strong coffee......

[Karen sn]

It's late, I'm tired and not feeling well, and perhaps a bit grouchy, but here's a fine example of pc.

 

Dec, 2001, a young white military family boards a plane for CONUS. So one certain group of people (radical Islamic terrorists) aren't offended, the airlines insists on strip searching a 4 month old baby. To make sure his parents haven't stuffed a bomb in his diaper.

 

That is why I really hate pc. No grandmoms or babies flew planes into the towers that day, but because of political correctness and not wanting ONE group to be offended, *every* one is subject to drastic and invasive measures.

 

Why couldn't the airlines just search young men with dark skin? HUH?! Because profiling is bad? waaaaaaah Well, young Islamic men committed the crimes, so they have, by default, subjected others who *look like them* to be suspects.

 

When 4yo girls start bombing buildings, you bet I want all 4yo girls searched. Until then, leave them the *&^% alone.

 

It's a bunch of political crapness is what it is, imo.

 

{I realize this post may come off as a tad rude. However, until one is subject to gross misjustices in the name of pc, one may not realize just how ridiculous pc really is.}

 

Right on sister!

[Danestress]

There actually are no "pc police" monitoring what you say, and our law has very very few restrictions on free speech. So you actually are free to be offensive if you want.

 

If your will to say what you want the way you want feels thwarted, it's probably because on some level, you DO care if you offend someone, even if you wish they wouldn't be so easy to offend.

 

Your example is a perfect one. I was (nicely but quite directly) called on using the description, "mentally retarded" recently. I am still not entirely sure how I feel about it. I certainly meant no offense, though I also understand that an easy variation ("retard") is thrown around with the intent to hurt.

 

Anyway, it's a free country, and I am free to say "mentally retarded" if I want and no one can stop me and no one is going to stop me. But another living, breathing, beloved of God woman brought this up, and it leaves me with a choice. I can use whatever words I want. And in fact, I can justify the use of the words I used. I could write an essay about why "mentally retarded" is not an offensive term and why people should :chillpill: about it.

 

But you know what? I don't want to offend people. I didn't want to offend this particular woman. If I try I can sort of understand why that term might be offensive, and if I honestly don't know, I could always ask her to explain it. But meanwhile, I will choose to exercise my own decision not to use the term again - not because the PC police came to the door or because I have thrown out common sense, but because I personally do actually care. I understand that I have a "right" to use whatever word I want, and I do wish that people were a bit thicker skinned. But I know that in exercising that right, I might be perceived as ignorant or small minded to others. And frankly, I want other to think well of me and to enjoy our conversations.

[Karen sn]

If you want to feel really sick to your stomach, try this- ask people how race has impacted their life. Most white people will say it hasn't. It's no shock to me that a lot of people don't understand some of the reasons for using PC terminology.

 

Actually - my mom was more qualified for a job and didn't get it because she was white.

We were broke. Electricity getting turned off all the time.....

 

But she was white and so did not get the job.

 

 

I needed foodstamps when I was pregnant with dd and my black skinned case worker NEVER cooperated with me AT ALL, and she was a rude brat. After 2 months of this I finally got wise and called her supervisor, the supervisor's supervisor, the one above her, AND the one above her.

 

It was a white woman who finally said that she would take care of it and I got my VERY MUCH NEEDED foodstamps the very next day. Was it because I was white that I was not getting them earlier?

 

Be assured that poor white people understand race discrimination in a financial way.

Maybe rich white people understand it socially, I don't know......

 

All I know is that racism works more than one way.

[LisaNY]

If I don't use the "I agree smiley" but instead type out, "I agree" will you be offended?:D

 

Well, if you aren't, *I* will be. I've always been highly offended by those who use :iagree: instead of "I agree", because it tells me that they really don't care enough about what I've said by taking the extra time to type out the words. :crying:

[Plucky]

If we were honest.....

Well, when I chime in on a secular thread and am honest about how I teach religion and history and what I believe and why - I get attacked by people who feel that my beliefs invalidate their own or that I am simply speaking my mind in order to offend them or cause them to stumble.

 

I find that I actually edit alot of what I say here in order to be more PC because it just isn't worth the hassle to be open.

 

I haven't seen you attacked much. I've seen you attack others more often. So I'm really befuddled by this post.

[secular_mom]

I tell my own children that I refuse to negotiate with terrorists when they (my children) are demanding their own way.

When we were participating in a co-op at a Catholic church, one of the women told a story about the patron saint of actors and how he was an atheist at first. He infiltrated the Christian folk in order to learn about them so he could write a play making fun of them. But when it was time to perform this play for the King, he suddenly believed in God. My response was, "So, he went native eh?". :)

 

FTR, my dd sat 'criss cross applesauce' when she was in K.

 

I don't think people here go around looking for a reason to be offended, really. I think some people are 'on guard', because they feel they are a minority-thinker. I said before that I think raising awareness is a good thing. That doesn't mean that everyone who is 'made aware' will change their speech, some may even continue to use the 'offensive' speech just to prove their own point. I wouldn't want to take the bait. ;)

Some will continue to use the 'offensive' speech because they just don't find it to be offensive.

Edited April 15, 2009 by secular_mom

[Jenny in Florida]

That doesn't mean that everyone who is 'made aware' will change their speech, some may even continue to use the 'offensive' speech just to prove their own point. I wouldn't want to take the bait. ;)

Some will continue to use the 'offensive' speech because they just don't find it to be offensive.

 

See, here's what I don't get: If I were stepping on someone's toes and didn't notice it, and the person said, "Hey! You're stepping on my toes! Ouch!" I'd move. I wouldn't want to hurt the person if there were a perfectly good option.

 

So, I truly don't see how, once hurtful speech is pointed out to the person using it, they can continue to use those words and expect to be considered kind.

 

But maybe that's just me.

[Stacy in NJ]

See, here's what I don't get: If I were stepping on someone's toes and didn't notice it, and the person said, "Hey! You're stepping on my toes! Ouch!" I'd move. I wouldn't want to hurt the person if there were a perfectly good option.

 

So, I truly don't see how, once hurtful speech is pointed out to the person using it, they can continue to use those words and expect to be considered kind.

 

But maybe that's just me.

 

 

Speech and language are power. They communicate ideas. If you alter your speech to soothe hurt feelings you give power to the offended. Sometimes that's harmless (refering to Native Americans as opposed to Indians). Sometimes people abuse that power and try to control what are considered acceptable ideas via this censorship. That is the real meaning of "PC", the censorship of ideas via the censorship of words.

 

For example, the insistance that the words God and Bible always be capitalized regardless of the religious beliefs of the writer is PC. If the writer then does capitalize them, she's asquiescing to the beliefs of the critic and imparting meaning in her writing that she may not necessarily agree with herself to ease the feelings of the critic.

 

So, altering your speech to be kind isn't necessarily all that kind.

[Karen sn]

Speech and language are power. They communicate ideas. If you alter your speech to soothe hurt feelings you give power to the offended. Sometimes that's harmless (refering to Native Americans as opposed to Indians). Sometimes people abuse that power and try to control what are considered acceptable ideas via this censorship. That is the real meaning of "PC", the censorship of ideas via the censorship of words.

 

For example, the insistance that the words God and Bible always be capitalized regardless of the religious beliefs of the writer is PC. If the writer then does capitalize them, she's asquiescing to the beliefs of the critic and imparting meaning in her writing that she may not necessarily agree with herself to ease the feelings of the critic.

 

So, altering your speech to be kind isn't necessarily all that kind.

 

YES! And the fact that I don't capitalize god is not at all because I want to offend - it's just because I don't feel the need to capitalize it. I probably would capitalize Yahweh or Eloheinu or Olam....the ACTUAL names of that god.

[Jenny in Florida]

Speech and language are power. They communicate ideas. If you alter your speech to soothe hurt feelings you give power to the offended.

 

It's not a matter of "soothing" but of understanding that words do have the power to hurt. And, if you know words hurt and there's a perfectly good alternative, why not use it?

 

Going back to my stepping-on-toes analogy: While I would not prostrate myself at the person's feet and offer to buy him/her an ice cream cone to make up for my mistake, I would apologize and try harder not to step on anyone's toes in the future.

 

What I would not do is to look that person in the eye, acknowledge that I was stepping on their toes and refuse to move. That would be selfish and cruel.

[Karen sn]

I haven't seen you attacked much. I've seen you attack others more often. So I'm really befuddled by this post.

 

Really?

Last week when I posted MY beliefs IN A SECULAR THREAD no less....

I was accused of trying to piss all the Christians off.

Some people on this board feel that if another has a different belief they are purposely trying to corrupt them or tell them they are wrong.

 

After being raised in the church/school - I finally stepped out and looked at all of the stories FROM MY OWN ADULT PERSPECTIVE and realized that there is no way I can go along with that religion.

 

Last night I was told here that I have no right to quote scripture!!!!!

Ummmmmm....I was quoting that FROM MEMORY!!! And because I was FORCED to memorize so much of that book, I feel it is appropriate to quote it whenver I see fit.

 

FUNNY THING - the quote was about love!!!!!!

Instead of calling it "God" - maybe people should call it "Love"....but then how can one fight and argue over a deity called LOVE.............

 

Last night a secular thread was locked because the Christians came in and were all pissed off. I don't pop in on a CC thread and then get pissed off that folks are discussing their god. Why don't secular threads get the same respect that CC threads are given? The OP of last nights thread was dissed on many levels by folks who thought she was anti-religion. Well, if you are a Christian - stay out of secular threads or respond with respect.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Karen sn

[Plucky]

Really?

Last week when I posted MY beliefs IN A SECULAR THREAD no less....

I was accused of trying to piss all the Christians off.

Some people on this board feel that if another has a different belief they are purposely trying to corrupt them or tell them they are wrong.

 

After being raised in the church/school - I finally stepped out and looked at all of the stories FROM MY OWN ADULT PERSPECTIVE and realized that there is no way I can go along with that religion.

 

Last night I was told here that I have no right to quote scripture!!!!!

Ummmmmm....I was quoting that FROM MEMORY!!! And because I was FORCED to memorize so much of that book, I feel it is appropriate to quote it whenver I see fit.

 

FUNNY THING - the quote was about love!!!!!!

Instead of calling it "God" - maybe people should call it "Love"....but then how can one fight and argue over a deity called LOVE.............

 

Last night a secular thread was locked because the Christians came in and were all pissed off. I don't pop in on a CC thread and then get pissed off that folks are discussing their god. Why don't secular threads get the same respect that CC threads are given?

 

I thought it was closed because you were yelling at everybody the way you are yelling at me now.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I haven't seen you attacked much. I've seen you attack others more often. So I'm really befuddled by this post.

 

Okay, regarding PC....you know that term, "well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle...." I know it is fitting, but is it PC or not?

[Plucky]

Okay, regarding PC....you know that term, "well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle...." I know it is fitting, but is it PC or not?

 

Look, it's Meanest. LOL

[ClassicMom]

I believe there is a line and at some point we all know where it is. It's that point where we all become uncomfortable. I also believe that some people just push that line too far one way or the other.

 

The PC culture has taken this too far (IMO). For instance, my son is mentally retarded, and sometimes, even I don't know how to reply when asked his condition. He IS mentally retarded. BUT, it is crossing the line when another child will call him "retard" in a derogative way. I am offended when people go around using the word "retard" for a person that did sometihing not so smart. And if done over and over again, I will say something and why. But mental retardation is a physical disability and to put a different label on it doesn't make it different from what it is.

 

We need to make sure that we aren't hurting the feelings of others, but I don't think that we need to change every term and name of everything to make it "feel good". Things are what they are. :001_huh:

[secular_mom]

Okay, regarding PC....you know that term, "well, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle...." I know it is fitting, but is it PC or not?

 

Well, I never thought of it that way. It very well could be that they were using the word black as an insult because they considered 'black' people to be inferior. Wow.

 

But truthfully, all of my pots are stainless steel, and I don't have a kettle right now, but the last one I had was Red enamel, LOL. It's definitely an outdated figure of speech.

[Karen sn]

I thought it was closed because you were yelling at everybody the way you are yelling at me now.

 

If you are that sensitive - please put me on your ignore list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Well, I never thought of it that way. It very well could be that they were using the word black as an insult because they considered 'black' people to be inferior. Wow.

 

But truthfully, all of my pots are stainless steel, and I don't have a kettle right now, but the last one I had was Red enamel, LOL. It's definitely an outdated figure of speech.

yeah, I got in trouble once because I really, truly thought it was offensive.....

 

My pots and kettles are all very reflective. I like shiney things. :)

[Karen sn]

yeah, I got in trouble once because I really, truly thought it was offensive.....

 

My pots and kettles are all very reflective. I like shiney things. :)

 

But they were all cast iron when this came into being.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Karen sn

[Plucky]

If you are that sensitive - please put me on your ignore list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm not being sensitive, Karen. You are yelling and it's not appropriate to do so and then complain that others are attacking you when they are not.

[AuntPol]

Well, actually I have considered getting a mac to avoid the viruses.

[secular_mom]

Well, actually I have considered getting a mac to avoid the viruses.

 

I have been on pins and needles about these viruses lately.

I would love to have a Mac, but we'd also keep our PC.

I can't watch Netflix Instant View movies without IE. And I ONLY use IE to watch those movies. I really wish I could just use FF to view them.

 

But, I still refuse to give in to temper tantrums thrown by my DC. ;)

[Stacy in NJ]

It's not a matter of "soothing" but of understanding that words do have the power to hurt. And, if you know words hurt and there's a perfectly good alternative, why not use it?

 

If changing your words doesn't change the meaning of your ideas, then fine change your words. But sometimes changing words can implicitly change meaning. Because words also have the power to communicate ideas. If you alter your words you maybe giving them a meaning you don't necessarily agree with.

 

 

Going back to my stepping-on-toes analogy: While I would not prostrate myself at the person's feet and offer to buy him/her an ice cream cone to make up for my mistake, I would apologize and try harder not to step on anyone's toes in the future.

 

What I would not do is to look that person in the eye, acknowledge that I was stepping on their toes and refuse to move. That would be selfish and cruel.

 

While I wouldn't necessarily want to agressively insult someone, I don't think it's selfish to insist I have the right to express myself in a way that imparts the true meaning of my thoughts/ideas. In fact, I think it's a very respectful thing to do. It assumes that the other individual is capable of understanding MY ideas as well as there own.

 

 

:001_smile:

[AnnetteB]

:lol: well, I was trying to be ridiculous to get my point across, so I'm glad you laughed.

 

I use the phrase "the natives are getting restless" very often. I dare someone to call me on it. :boxing_smiley:

 

I have a little Cherokee blood in my veins and I use "the natives are getting restless" and "sitting indian style" myself. No offense taken :D

We teach the dc to make little indian noises into their hands when they are babies, too.

[OnTheBrink]

Well, actually I have considered getting a mac to avoid the viruses.

 

It took me a minute to figure out what that had to do with this thread. :lol:

 

As a long-time Mac user, I've never had a virus. :001_smile: I use a PC at my job and I curse it every. single. time.

 

Is it un PC to say PCs stink? I hope so! :D

[LizzyBee]

Well, I never thought of it that way. It very well could be that they were using the word black as an insult because they considered 'black' people to be inferior. Wow.

 

But truthfully, all of my pots are stainless steel, and I don't have a kettle right now, but the last one I had was Red enamel, LOL. It's definitely an outdated figure of speech.

 

I always picture cast iron pots when I hear or say that phrase. Isn't that where it originated from?

[AnnetteB]

To be loving.

 

We all have to balance kindness and truth, I think. So being PC is on the 'kindness' side, and 'disagreeing without being disagreeable' is on the 'truth' side. Both are quite important.

 

During the 70's everyone was taking stands all over the place, and it was a heady time.

 

During the 50's everyone was sweeping things under the rug a lot, and it was a surface-level peacefulness.

 

Balancing kindness and truth--always being both kind and truthful--balances the best of both eras, while avoiding the worst of either one, I think.

 

 

 

 

(Have not read any of the other responses).

I like what you say :) In my own life, I have to deal with the temptation to go against political correctness on the issue of the acceptance of gay marriages. Please don't bite my head off....my own grandfather was a homosexual who married my grandmother hiding his inclinations and it led to disaster and the damage didn't stop with one generation...I struggle with keeping my opinions to myself on the issue of gay rights and adoption because of my family's experience. Being PC all the time has its own pain.