Just finished Deconstructing Penguins...

[Sunshine State Sue]

WHINE ALERT!

 

I attempted to read How to Read Literature Like a Professor, but couldn't make myself finish it.

 

I actually liked DP, but it just made me feel incompetent. The authors hold books discussions with a group of parents and children. They know their literature.

 

I need to do literature analysis with an only boy child who could summarize any book in 3 sentences. I don't know what I'm doing.

 

We have read most of the books in DP, and I would never in a million years have figured out on my own what the books were REALLY about. Most of the books that they talk about, I didn't even like :eek:

 

Quotes from the end of the book:

"No one needs an advanced degree in English literature or forty hours a week of free time to be able to effectively discuss a book with a child." I would need more than 40 hours a week of free time to do just that.

 

"You have to have an idea of what you want to say, what you want the child to walk away with, and how you are going to get there. You have to be able to identify questions or answers that lead only to dead ends or superficial observations (so that you can steer away from them) and manage the discussion in such a way as to make steady, identifiable progress that the children can follow." I have absolutely no clue how to do this with any book.

 

So, any suggestions for how a literature-challenged mom can give her ds a decent education about literature? :confused:

 

This is one of the things that I loved about SOTW. SWB laid it out beautifully for this history-ignorant mom to give my ds a love and knowledge of history almost effortlessly.

 

I need to find a SOTW for junior high literature. Does it exist?

[Kate in VA]

NNNNOOOOO!!!!

I just finished the first chapter and was really looking forward to "learning" how to do this!!!!! AAAHHHH :eek:

 

So, it really didn't do it for ya hun?

 

I even bought it! :(

 

looking forward to seeing what others have to say:)

 

Kate

[Sunshine State Sue]

I have read good things about Lightning Literature and Teaching the Classics. I'm thinking about using one or the other next year. Maybe they will hold my hand well enough?

[Karen in CO]

Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus? or the junior great books? or even Five in a Row? Once you get used to talking about books in a "literary" way, it gets easier.

[Laura Corin]

It's written to the child and I'm learning too. LL7 is a good place to start.

 

Laura

[Sunshine State Sue]

Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus? or the junior great books? or even Five in a Row?

 

Seems like I have seen Royal Fireworks Press somewhere lately. Suppose ... covers a lot of literature. Do you know where I could see a sample?

 

We used FIAR back in K and 1st and enjoyed it.

[Karen in CO]

Seems like I have seen Royal Fireworks Press somewhere lately. Suppose ... covers a lot of literature. Do you know where I could see a sample?

 

We used FIAR back in K and 1st and enjoyed it.

 

Rainbow Resources has a one page sample of the K-2 book, but I haven't seen any sample of the higher books. I did find a page that lists the books used in each grade Suppose Book lists

[Linda...inOwasso]

"How to Read a Book" by Mortimer/Adler. Check out the reviews at amazon.com. It's the BEST book on literary analysis I've ever come across and I consider it a MUST HAVE on your bookshelf if you truly care about reading comprehension.

[Lori D.]

And I *did* take English Lit -- AND Film Theory/Criticism in college, so you'd think I'd be able to discuss lit, having had analysis in TWO forms of media! But when I read DP, all I could think was, whoa, I would never have seen all that in those books!

 

Just by way of encouragement, Sue, we just talk about what we read here -- and a lot of it at this early stage is compare and contrast with other books or with movies or TV (Star Trek, Star Wars, Batman Begins, and Lord of the Rings are referenced a lot! lol!) If we have a guide with some questions or prompts, that helps. But if not, sometimes we just stop in the midst of reading aloud and someone will say "hey, that sounds like..." (fill in the blank with some other book, a movie, a recent political or current event, whatever) and we'll be discussing.

 

- Having gone through Lightning Lit. was a big help.

- Doing Fallacy Detective/Thinking Toolbox helped (sparks critical/logical thinking).

- Doing Lit. Lessons from the Lord of the Rings this year; it's been great for sparking discussion.

- We go over 2-3 lit. elements a week briefly using Figuratively Speaking, so that also gives us ideas of things to look for in the lit. we're reading.

 

 

And we do it together, so we're learning how to analyze together! I think that's key. Maybe look at Deconstructing Penguins as encouragement for that -- taking a book journey together. Your family will get something completely different out of those books -- and that's good! The authors just got to put into print what themes *they* garnered from the books.

 

Hey, maybe we can "book club" it together here! : )

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[JennW in SoCal]

I'd recommend the Well Educated Mind. I always felt kind of dense about literary analysis because the elements never leapt out at me, were never obvious. But a lightbulb went off in my head when I read WEM, I finally understood that it matters **how** you read a book, that when you approach it in a more logical and organized manner the literary elements become apparent. The book breaks down exactly **how** to read at 3 different levels already familiar to you -- grammar, logic and rhetoric and there are specific tasks that you, the reader, must do in each level. There are specific questions to help you start dissecting the text. By the way, the grammar, logic and rhetoric levels don't mean age level, but the depth at which are reading and analyzing.

 

And, WEM applies to all kinds of books, not just the ones listed in it.

 

Hope that makes sense -- I'm typing this while American Idol is on!

[Sunshine State Sue]

I'm stopping my the library today for more books.

[8filltheheart]

Sue, I love lit analysis and I still don't simply do it on my own with my older kids. If you google book titles online, you will usually find tons of websites with discussion questions, cliff notes/spark notes which help with the symbolism, background, etc. Many teachers have their info online even with research/essay questions posted.

 

I don't think it is a reflection on your ability to analyze a book!! Personally, I think doing it on your own without a source is sort of like reinventing the wheel.....you don't need to!! I do read ahead of my kids and read all of the analytical info ahead so that when it comes to discussions I do exactly what you described from DP......I know the questions I want to ask and the direction I want our discussions to go. I simply didn't have to get there on my own!!! :)

 

BTW.....I second the LL from LOTR suggestion. My kids love the program and they are learning a lot of lit ana.

 

HTH

[Sunshine State Sue]

Personally, I think doing it on your own without a source is sort of like reinventing the wheel.....you don't need to!!

 

Thanks! That DOES help a lot. I would love to do LLfLOTR eventually. It's my favorite book of all time. I could discuss it all day long :D

[angela in ohio]

I don't knwo if someone has said this already, but...

 

start with the books in DP! They are already done with you. After a few of those, you should feel comfortable doing some on your own. I assumed that is why the author included such details on each book: so that you could model your first few books after that and get your feet wet.

 

After that, Teaching the Classics is excellent.

[prairiegirl]

I am so relieved that someone else feels the same way about this book. I just finished DP and I loved it! But I now feel so inadequate in doing literary analysis with my kids. The part that really got me was when the author said that there was always somone in their classes who had ideas that were far, far from the actual theme. Well, that would be me. I always read way too much into a book. I get carried away with symbolism and pull things out that are just not there. I don't want to take my kids down these roads if they are not right.

 

When the authors were discussing the books that had many choices for protagonists and antagonists, I felt so lost in trying to figure out the right one. It's all overwhelming to me. And how did they get those themes? Some of them was so convoluted, I would never have figured that out on my own.

 

I think, though, the one thing I did get out of this book was discussion over a book is important. You can learn and teach many things through literary discussion. Even if, at the beginning, discussion is simplified to 'What was your favourite part of the book?" "What did you like about this character?" Starting out with simple discussion might lead to more confidence in striking out in deeper areas.

 

 

Julia

mom of 3 (8,7,5)

[MIch elle]

1. Use DP and read the books they read and discuss it just like they did in DP.

2. Use Christian Light Education reading to get a basic understanding of lit. analysis in reader/workbook form and then you'll "see" these things in books yourself so you can point them out to your dc

3. Use PASS LA units 6

 

I read DP and How to Read Like a Lit. Prof and took notes. Then while I read with my dc, I can point out things they don't see. How to Read Like A Prof. also confirmed the importance of being familiar with Greek mythology, Bible, and Shakespeare to be able to "see" the allusions to these earlier works.

 

A great little book is Writing About Literature, Edgar Roberts. I have the used Brief Tenth Edition from Amazon.

[kalanamak]

Get one for a book you've read recently and brush up on the background and common thoughts about it. You don't have to sound like a critic for some high brow magazine. Once you get some of the idea of what should be gleaned, the next book gets easier, and so on and so on.

Just a thought.

[Tonia]

I felt the same way about Deconstructing Penguins and I was left with the feeling that they really didn't lay out the formula for "here is how to do this" (which is why I read the book in the first place! I wanted someone to lay it out for me). But I went back through the book and made an outline of the steps they went through in their book analysis. I'd be willing to send it to anyone who wants it.

 

Another thing to remember - their method only works with books that have an obvious antagonist and protagonist (not all books do!)

[Grace]

The author of Teaching the Classics have Teachers Guides for a few books on the web site. They have The Bronze Bow for free and a few others you can purchase. I have not used them but feel I will need them when I start analyzing literature. (not to self....add that to next years list!)

 

http://centerforlit.com/teacherguides.htm (if link doesn't work)

 

http://http://centerforlit.com/teacherguides.htm

[Trivium Academy]

I agree with Linda, read Adler's book first and then read SWB's Well-Educated Mind (I did this). Teaching the Classics is nice but I like having books to reference, Teaching the Classics is "my" school for the next 12 months, to watch and pull all I can out of it, esp. since discussing literature is the crux of our homeschool.

[Lori D.]

I think Deconstructing Penguins leaves a slightly mistaken impression that there is ONE right "interpretation". Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the new insights the authors have, and it's great they came up with things to consider, as in their analysis of "Animal Farm", that there is MORE than just the traditional interpretation. But, it's important to realize that each of us would come up with other things, too, if we were part of a book club.

 

As long as you can support it from the text itself, you will find more than one interpretation of all works that we call classics, or Good Literature. That's what keeps each new generation coming back to certain works. That's what causes us as readers to re-read certain works -- we find new themes and ideas to wrestle with as WE change and have more experience, we have more tools with which to approach a work.

 

We're doing Lit. Lessons from the Lord of the Rings right now, and there are numerous ways to interpret the trilogy, all of which you could back-up with examples from the books:

- ecology viewpoint: technology vs nature, or the loss of environmental balance

- spiritual viewpoint -- example of the growth of a Christian's walk of faith, or temptation to sin and responses

- political viewpoint -- commentary on totalitarianism and the need to stand against it even though the effects of war are devastating (Sauron as ultimate evil dictator)

- social viewpoint -- reaffirmation of social classes and aristocratic social structures (character of Sam, a servant, elevated to mayor, a leader, by the end of the book)

- feminist viewpoint -- reaffirmation of patriarchal authority structure dominance of male roles and concerns (lack of female characters; character of Eowyn who ultimately chooses a traditional wifely role)

- Freudian viewpoint -- attempts to use, control, or submerge sexual potency and desire (the ring as symbol of sexuality)

- literary viewpoint -- the importance of myth and storytelling in inspiring ourselves and others; self-reflexive nature of literature (Frodo and Sam on the steps of Cirith Ungol, speaking about themselves as characters in a book)

[Laura in VA]

I think Deconstructing Penguins leaves a slightly mistaken impression that there is ONE right "interpretation".

 

I don't want to force feed my children certain ideas about the books they read and I'm not saying that anyone here wants to do that either. I may lead them to certain insights, but I think it's important for them to be able to discuss their own ideas as well. :)

[Rhondabee]

you can even use some of the questions during your discussion times.

 

I really like WEM better than DP because you don't just "brainstorm and then put your guesses together", but you walk logically through a series of questions that almost immediately pinpoints the climax of the book, and then you branch out to find the really cool stuff.

 

I always fill out the answers to our books using the grammar and logic stage questions, and I always get that tingly feeling when I get to the last question and everything just comes together and I'm like, "Oh, man, why didn't I see that before? EVERYONE should read this book!" (Of course, I'm seeing more now than I was 6 months ago!)

 

:)