Verbally abusive parenting... How far is too far? And would you ever intervene?

[Kay in Cal]

We were at Costco today, and as my dh was helping our ds 7 with condiments on his hot dog, another man was at the same counter with his aproximately 9 yo son. The man turned around suddenly and accidentally tripped the little boy. When the boy fell, the dad started yelling angrily at him, telling him he was an "Idiot!" It doesn't really sound like much when I type it out, but it was... disturbing. There was so much vitriol and anger. The little boy picked himself up, was very apologetic, and seemed really eager to please his dad.

 

I know that people have different parenting styles. I lose my temper with my kids sometimes. But does anyone really think that publicly calling your child an idiot is OK? I had to practically hold my dh back from confronting the guy, and he is not easily pissed off. My first thought was abuse. I mean, if you'll talk to your child like that in public, what might you do in private?

 

I know I don't know the whole story or anything. But it's left me feeling bad all day, so my answer has been prayer.

 

So... would you ever comment on something like this if the person was a stranger? Or just stay far away?

[Nestof3]

My temper/lack of patience is probably my worst sin -- one I have to apologize for / repent of often. I have grown quite a bit in this area -- have come quite far in my walk concerning this, but I can still improve.

 

I have said many things I regret, and I most assuredly wish I could redo all of the moments I messed up, but I have to say that I have never acted like that in public and not over something so small. I am often rather surprised at the lack of self-control parents have in public, and this is one of the things that convicted me so harshly. If I can have self-control over my frustration in public, then I can surely do the same in private.

 

I am sure I am rambling, so I apologize if this sounds muddled. I just like to be the first to admit my horrid failures.

 

I am not sure if I would ever have the nerve to say anything in public. I came very close once, and the incident was not as volatile as the one you described.

 

I was in the children's section of the library, and a child was asking her mother if she could check out a book. The mother told her to read the first sentence, which she was unable to do. The mother, clearly exasperated, yelled in a hushed tone (does that make sense?), "I am not going to get you any books if you cannot read. What is wrong with you, etc. etc.?" I so badly wanted to take that little girl and read a bunch of books to her. I was just so sad about it that I cried.

 

No, again, my heart was pricked about the times I lacked patience, but in this situation, I just wanted to tell the mom that perhaps her daughter had not been taught to read or perhaps she was not ready yet.

[teamturner]

That would break my heart too! Prayer for this little boy and his dad would be my response also. It's hard to determine if interfering could make it harder for the boy as the dad might take out his embaressment on him later at home.

 

I would have wanted to ask the boy if he was okay but I don't know if I would have. In those situations, after I've had time to think about it I've often wished I'd had done something but it's so hard to know exactly what to do in the moment.

 

I sometimes become overwhelmed with sadness when I stop and think about all the children that are in hurtful situations. Praying for them is all we can do unless we know them and understand their situation and can notify the proper authorities.

[Nestof3]

Oh, I have said casual comments before when I see a parent at the end of the rope -- something like, "shopping with little ones sure is stressful, huh?" Just something to sort of let them know that people are watching and also to let people know that others can relate to stress.

 

I think so many people are stressed beyond belief right now. No, it's not an excuse, but it is sickening to read of parents are shooting or drowing all of their children. I just have to wonder who these people have to lean on.

[LUV2EDU]

No matter how angry you get with your children, it is wrong to call them an idiot. It is degrading in the worse kind of way. I feel for the boy.

 

The boy's father probably was subjected to that kind of emotional abuse when he was a child.

[Danestress]

to witness something like this.

 

I don't want a confrontation, particularly with my children there, and I am not sure that confronting it would necessarily help the child who is being mistreated.

 

At the same time, I end up struggling for days with worry and guilt. I feel bad for not championing the child, but at the same time, I don't necessarily think a confrontation was the right thing to do. I just think that witnessing something like this puts us in a position where we have no actions that seem to really be right and sufficient.

 

It's a horrible, horrible feeling. Poor child.

 

 

 

 

 

We were at Costco today, and as my dh was helping our ds 7 with condiments on his hot dog, another man was at the same counter with his aproximately 9 yo son. The man turned around suddenly and accidentally tripped the little boy. When the boy fell, the dad started yelling angrily at him, telling him he was an "Idiot!" It doesn't really sound like much when I type it out, but it was... disturbing. There was so much vitriol and anger. The little boy picked himself up, was very apologetic, and seemed really eager to please his dad.

 

I know that people have different parenting styles. I lose my temper with my kids sometimes. But does anyone really think that publicly calling your child an idiot is OK? I had to practically hold my dh back from confronting the guy, and he is not easily pissed off. My first thought was abuse. I mean, if you'll talk to your child like that in public, what might you do in private?

 

I know I don't know the whole story or anything. But it's left me feeling bad all day, so my answer has been prayer.

 

So... would you ever comment on something like this if the person was a stranger? Or just stay far away?

[Peek a Boo]

Oh, I have said casual comments before when I see a parent at the end of the rope -- something like, "shopping with little ones sure is stressful, huh?" Just something to sort of let them know that people are watching and also to let people know that others can relate to stress.

 

I think this is the best bet.

 

However, i filed for divorce precisely because the verbal abuse to the kids escalated way out of hand.

 

many cell phones have a video feature. learn to use it.

I would probably videotape the incident and maybe quietly follow them to/thru the parking lot. get the license plate.

 

however, I'd hesitate before USING such footage: I know our own situation was/ seems resolved by actions *I* took, w/o involving CPS. but by videotaping at least you'll FEEL empowered, for the time being anyway.

 

it's almost a lose-lose situation.

[Peela]

I cant think of any actual benefit to confronting the person. Perhaps just staring lets them know they are being watched- or catching the boy's eye and giving him a concerned and loving look? .

Its hard enough to get people to change when you live with them and you have lots of opportunities to show them the error of their ways, let alone when you meet them on the street.

My dh has called his oldest daughter (my stepdd) an idiot at times when he has lost his temper. It's not right, its not good, I have tried to get him to change, yes he was called that a LOT when he was a child, according to his mother (by his father).....but it doesnt make him a bad person or a bad father overall. He has only done it once or twice to our children and I hauled him over the coals, roasted him alive, for it.

[mom4him]

Depending on the situation but I feel that you can say something in some of these situations. I had a young lady and her little person living with us for a while. She was imature to say the least. She wanted to be a good mom but if you have never had it moddled to you in your life it is sometimes hard to know what is right or wrong. Anyway, we were in a Sam's club once and the little person was tired and not being his best. She was being very impatient and grabbed him by the arm and yanked him up off of the floor. I had been picking up things way down the way. I saw what was happening but was to far away to help instantly. Another dear lady stepped over to her and asked if she could help her. She was very nice about it, not at all threatening. My young lady snapped at her that they were all right but it did give me another opportunity to talk to her about her baby and how she possibly needed to be thankful that the lady offered to help instead of calling DSS.

I don't think she ever treated him like that again in public at least.

We all get tired, overwhelmed and just plain frustrated at times. I do believe that there should be a line drawn as to how you talk to your children and what words you say. Stupid, dumb, idiot are all on the 'you don't say that to or about someone else' list at our house.

I too will be praying for this little boy and his father. As another poster said, it is probably how he was treated. Unless we have learned new patterns, we truly will treat our children in the same way that we were treated.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, it sounds pretty bad to me. I would generally write the yelling off as simply that the guy is stressed for whatever reason. Also, a LOT of people respond to fear with anger. He was probably scared at first the kid was hurt and then freaked. It's the "idiot" part that gets me. That IS abuse (unless done in silliness around the house and even still could be worrisome).

 

I wouldn't have stepped in in this situation (or most). I have never called CPS in a store (despite me thinking that parents act like undisciplined toddlers, I've only seen what is legally abuse once) and this most certainly wouldn't warrant it.

 

In many situations, I feel for the parent (as well as the child). If I am close and the situation is right, I might say something like, "sometimes it's just so __________(frustrating, exhausting, etc)." Or I might engage the parent or child in another way, just distracting the situation. A LOT of the time I walk away though. Usually, it's best to mind my business and yet I don't want to hear it.

 

Actually, last week, in the parking lot at Walmart (in the morning so during school hours), I yelled at my son. It was probably 5 sentences so quite a tirade. I have *never* yelled at my kids like that in public and have rarely done so at all. Because of this, I have a little more sympathy for the parent. I mean, EVERYONE can have a bad situation happen.

 

In our case, there was much more to it (as obviously it'snot the dynamic of our household). My daughter was driving. She's actually a VERY good driver but I've been working with her to tweak a few things. Instead of appropriately anticipating and pre-coaching or just waiting til after the situation to give her an alternative way to handle something, I TWICE in a row gave her directions I expected her to follow RIGHT then. The first time, the driver in front of her had different (stupid) plans causing a bit of a problem. My son, the peanut gallery, had something to say about each situation. When we got out of the car, my daughter felt defeated and handed me the keys (she never hands me the keys willingly these days). My son had a comment. I layed into him.

 

We walked into Walmart, went to the restroom. In the bathroom, I apologized to my daughter and told her what I should have done instead in the two situations we were in. When we got out of there, I apologized to my son for yelling like that. They were both a bit mopey so we went back to the car. They each eventually stated how they were wrong in the situation and we cheered up and went to do our shopping peacefully.

 

But things happen! I've managed 16yrs of parenting without yelling at a kid in public (and very rarely doing it otherwise) but....

 

So though I know there are a lot of parents yelling, hitting, or being otherwise obnoxious, I don't think we can judge someone as a horrible parent based on ONE situation. Maybe this guy is generally an ogre....or maybe he was dealing with severe pain, found out his mother is dying and released himself on his kid in a situation inappropriately just this one time. There is NO way to know.

 

That "idiot" thing still really bugs me though. I have no tolerance for namecalling.

Edited April 8, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[katemary63]

I mean, if you'll talk to your child like that in public, what might you do in private?

 

I know I don't know the whole story or anything. But it's left me feeling bad all day, so my answer has been prayer.

 

So... would you ever comment on something like this if the person was a stranger? Or just stay far away?

 

You can be sure this child receives verbal abuse at home if he gets it in public. It's a no-brainer.

 

I pray daily for these children, unknown to me, but obviously hurting deeply from unloving parents. It makes me sick.

 

I have been thinking of what could have been said. It's hard. Maybe something addressed to the boy like, "Oh, it's okay, honey, I trip over big shoes when they are just laying in my hallway!" I don't know...... But then maybe that father would take out his embarasment on the kid later, so....no....that wouldn't work. :crying:

[Guest twiceblessed]

HI Folks!I just got back on this forum after a year or so away. I just wanted to comment that I feel for you, witnessing something wrong is a yucky feeling for sure. I oftentimes wish I said something only later to wrack myself with guilt about it. But what I want to say is...the best thing you could do is pray for them. Sometimes God puts those people in your view just so you can pray for them, that day and maybe even for as long as you can. Sometimes I want to say something, but I haven't been gifted with that sort of courage or ability. But what I can do is pray. That has helped me alot when I feel confused over what I saw or unsure if I acted in the best way. Prayer is the best solution. You never know if it is YOUR prayers alone that change the life of that sad and hurting little boy. What is sad too is the anger his father had for his son's apparent scare of falling and tripping. No compassion, just anger and how sad to see how eager that little boy was to please, not even assuming his dad would care for his own needs. It's sad to think how much scarring will go on because of this. If we all lift him up in a prayer together, maybe he will be led to a different living situation or maybe his father will have a major life change.

Edited April 8, 2009 by twiceblessed

[Danestress]

I think confrontation might just make the situation worse, so I probably would pray and hope that is enough.

 

But there has to be a line somewhere. I wouldn't want to be the child who is abused my whole life and who can think of a lot of people who witnessed the abuse and did nothing but later said, "well, I prayed for you." Sometimes a helpless child needs more than prayer. Sometimes he needs someone stronger to defend him or speak up for him.

 

I don't know where the line is. In this case, I would do what Kay did.

[mnllj7]

That is such a horrible thing. If someone called me an idiot in public, it would be so humiliating. I'd want to run and hide in a closet.

 

I dont know if I would say something, it depends on the circumstances. I have said things in the past. But when it is a man, I feel it would be better if my husband was there for him to speak out. If it was another mom, then I would say something, probably like what someone mentioned in a previous post. Children can be hard to deal with when we are out. Or they sure wear us out at times dont they. Or something to the affect they were seen.

 

That is a terrible thing, If someone would do that in public, That little boy needs prayer to what is being done in private. He will grow up to do the same thing to his children. and we wonder why so many Public School kids act the way they do. As scripture says paraphrased greatly. you are what you hang around. nancyt

[Peek a Boo]

I think confrontation might just make the situation worse, so I probably would pray and hope that is enough.

 

But there has to be a line somewhere. I wouldn't want to be the child who is abused my whole life and who can think of a lot of people who witnessed the abuse and did nothing but later said, "well, I prayed for you." Sometimes a helpless child needs more than prayer. Sometimes he needs someone stronger to defend him or speak up for him.

 

I don't know where the line is. In this case, I would do what Kay did.

 

i agree.

speaking up might not help the situation the boy is in, but it might do a lot for his spirit. he needs to hear from SOMEwhere on some level that this kind of stuff is NOT ok and that SOMEone is at least trying to watch out for him.

[Tree House Academy]

I would not have confronted the parent, myself. It is his child and you have absolutely no idea what had happened prior to this or why this man was so upset. It is possible he is a great dad and just lost his job and therefore lost his temper. He may have turned to his son 5 minutes later and sincerely apologized. You just don't know until you walk in his shoes.

 

I know that I have gotten angry with my kids before and ended up aplogizing for something I have said...particularly with my 9 year old. I had him when I was 19 and, unforutnately, we have sort of "grown up" together. Am I proud of it, no. Do I make a habit of name calling, absolutely NOT. But I can't say that I have never let something fly and been sincerely regretful later.

 

Prayer is the way to go and I pray with you that this man realized that his behavior was hurtful and inappropriate to the situation. And also that whatever was on his heart or burdening him at the time to make him react this way will also lift. Peace be with you as the witness to this as well. :grouphug:

[joannqn]

The man turned around suddenly and accidentally tripped the little boy....The little boy picked himself up, was very apologetic, and seemed really eager to please his dad.

 

This is what caught my eye the most. You said that the dad tripped the boy not that the boy tripped. If this is the way it actually happened, the dad should have apologized to the boy for tripping him.

 

The other thing I noticed was how you described the boy as acting. Children in abusive homes apologize a lot and try to please in order to be accepted and loved by their parents only to never get/feel that approval. I think the boy's response is the most telling here.

 

I have been thinking of what could have been said. It's hard. Maybe something addressed to the boy like, "Oh, it's okay, honey, I trip over big shoes when they are just laying in my hallway!"

 

:iagree:

 

I don't usually think quick enough to do more than give the parent an angry look but this is what I think is a good response. Perhaps ask the boy if he's ok and then tell him that he is not an idiot when he trips, and especially not when someone else trips him. He needs to hear that he's not an idiot because if he hears this enough growing up, he'll believe it and it will take years to undo the damage, if he's lucky enough to realize he needs to seek help. Then make the comment to the dad that shopping with kids can be so frustrating and ask if he needs any help.

 

i agree.

speaking up might not help the situation the boy is in, but it might do a lot for his spirit. he needs to hear from SOMEwhere on some level that this kind of stuff is NOT ok and that SOMEone is at least trying to watch out for him.

 

:iagree:

 

I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional home and was sexually abused by a neighbor. It wasn't until I was an adult that one of my neighbors told me that they thought things were weird and asked what was going on when I was a kid. I was flabbergasted when I realized that they "knew" all wasn't right but did nothing.

[OnTheBrink]

A public confrontation could be taken out on the child later at home. I've lived that, so it's very possible.

 

In that situation (described by the OP), I'd not have said anything to the dad. I might have asked the child if he was ok, but not addressed the name-calling. Sometimes, just someone responding peacefully can diffuse the situation.

[laughing lioness]

I did use my cell phone once to call in a women who was verbally abusive to her child in a stuffmart parking lot. It was disturbing, yes. I felt violated and it wasn't even directed at me. It was so very wrong what how the mom was behaving and what she was saying to this little person.

I've also called in a parent who deliberatly tripped their dd in order to "teach them to tie their shoes." The kid literally fell on their face on a concrete sidewalk. The kids also came to our kids group frequently with odd bruises, "stove burns" etc weekly.

I'm not into gov intervention but anger management and parenting classes can change/save lives.

[3lilreds in NC]

I"m removing my response because I didn't read the OP carefully. Never mind.

[Kelli in TN]

I routinely do two things when in this situation.

 

1) If I have a child or children with me and the verbal abuse is especially bad, I will physically draw my children to me and verbally affirm them, fairly loudly so that the out of control parent can hear and perhaps see the contrast.

 

2)I openly watch the out of control parent, boldly. If the parent makes eye contact with me, I meet that eye contact head on and refuse to look away until he/she does. It's almost like a dare; like a message that I am watching and others probably are too and we all recognize that he/she is a loser.

 

Now if it is just a frazzled mom who cannot handle her 4 year old. touching. one. more. thing. on. the shelf. then I make eye contact and smile sympathetically because I've been there!

 

In the case of the boy in Costco I might have run up to the boy after he tripped and asked him "Are you okay? Did you hurt yourself when you fell?"

 

I really think store employees ought to be trained to intervene in really volatile cases.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I didn't mean to suggest I would never or have never called CPS. I haven't in regards to something in a store, but I have called CPS a few times for various reasons. I just can't imagine calling with one incident of yelling at a child. There are, no doubt, a few parents who have never yelled at their kids, but I would guess it isn't the majority.

 

I do hope this was a one time incident for this child. I also hope that if it's not, his family will work to protect him.

[PineFarmMom]

I routinely do two things when in this situation.

 

1) If I have a child or children with me and the verbal abuse is especially bad, I will physically draw my children to me and verbally affirm them, fairly loudly so that the out of control parent can hear and perhaps see the contrast.

 

2)I openly watch the out of control parent, boldly. If the parent makes eye contact with me, I meet that eye contact head on and refuse to look away until he/she does. It's almost like a dare; like a message that I am watching and others probably are too and we all recognize that he/she is a loser.

 

 

 

I have been in situation and seen things that disturbed me. I like your formula. I am one of the ones who stand there not knowing at all what to do, then if I do say something I second-guess myself. If I don't say anything, I'll suffer guilt and doubt later for that also. I like your way of handling it.

 

Teresa

[Stacy in NJ]

Well, I'm a confronter. I have and will in the future confront people when they seem out of control. I usually use humor first. People usually respond quite well to this. Sometimes it's difficult to think of something to say that lightens the situation and still points to the problem.

 

On several occasions I've said things like, "forgot your coffee this morning?" or "you need to reschedule that anger management class."

 

I've gotten a few hostile looks and angry comments, but I'm fine with that. I've had a few folks actually seem grateful for the commentary. I try to follow up the wise crack with a little conversation.

[Jenny in Florida]

Well, I'm a confronter. I have and will in the future confront people when they seem out of control. I usually use humor first. People usually respond quite well to this. Sometimes it's difficult to think of something to say that lightens the situation and still points to the problem.

 

On several occasions I've said things like, "forgot your coffee this morning?" or "you need to reschedule that anger management class."

 

I've gotten a few hostile looks and angry comments, but I'm fine with that. I've had a few folks actually seem grateful for the commentary. I try to follow up the wise crack with a little conversation.

 

The one thing I'll say about this is that I've heard that parents who feel they have been embarassed in public may blame the child and come down even harder at home.

 

So, I've been known to try a bit of sympathetic humor, but I do try to tread very, very carefully. The last thing I want to do is make the situation worse.

[jenL]

My temper/lack of patience is probably my worst sin -- one I have to apologize for / repent of often. I have grown quite a bit in this area -- have come quite far in my walk concerning this, but I can still improve.

 

I have said many things I regret, and I most assuredly wish I could redo all of the moments I messed up, but I have to say that I have never acted like that in public and not over something so small. I am often rather surprised at the lack of self-control parents have in public, and this is one of the things that convicted me so harshly. If I can have self-control over my frustration in public, then I can surely do the same in private.

 

I am sure I am rambling, so I apologize if this sounds muddled. I just like to be the first to admit my horrid failures.

 

I am not sure if I would ever have the nerve to say anything in public. I came very close once, and the incident was not as volatile as the one you described.

 

:iagree: My frustration with my children is something I struggle with daily. I grew up with parents like the one described in the opening post, and seeing parents act like that in public breaks my heart and infuriates me at the same time. Even though I came from lots of yelling/degrading, it does not mean I need to continue that same trend with my own children. Although I struggle and have issues with patience and anger, I can say I will not humiliate my child in public as this man did. It may take every ounce of self-control sometimes to keep myself in check, but it is essential to me to keep my frustrations inward rather than dehumanize my child. Despite my issues, I am a work in progress, and with every mistake, I have the chance to repent and try again. A parent like this is not looking a the whole picture of his child to see the emotional damage being done.

[Pamela H in Texas]

On several occasions I've said things like, "forgot your coffee this morning?" or "you need to reschedule that anger management class."

 

And how would you feel if you heard something like this when you're stressed beyond all belief, know you rarely have a moment like that, etc?

 

Honestly, had you said that to me the other day when I had my *only* bad public moment, I probably would have cried...at some point, I probably would have gotten smart and just gotten angry at "Must be nice to be perfect" you. Then I'd feel sorry for you for being so judgmental. And THEN I'd finally get over it.

 

And I think it's a consideration that 1) you don't have the right to judge others and 2) you could make it worse on the poor kid if they really ARE abusive people, not just not perfect.

 

Of course, maybe most people are just less sensitive than me. BTW, I wouldn't have said a word in front of you. I would have scurried off and hopefully hid my tears as I did.

[Harriet Vane]

And how would you feel if you heard something like this when you're stressed beyond all belief, know you rarely have a moment like that, etc?

 

Honestly, had you said that to me the other day when I had my *only* bad public moment, I probably would have cried...at some point, I probably would have gotten smart and just gotten angry at "Must be nice to be perfect" you. Then I'd feel sorry for you for being so judgmental. And THEN I'd finally get over it.

 

And I think it's a consideration that 1) you don't have the right to judge others and 2) you could make it worse on the poor kid if they really ARE abusive people, not just not perfect.

 

Of course, maybe most people are just less sensitive than me. BTW, I wouldn't have said a word in front of you. I would have scurried off and hopefully hid my tears as I did.

 

Well said.