Would you encourage a kid to stop an expesive sport/class?

[Tap]

Ds14 is a competative swimmer. Ds is tall, but very thin. His physical developement is behind his fellow swimmers of the same age. Because of this he struggles to keep up in his time and age group. He is in the highest level group on a very competitive team (one of the best in the state), because of this the difference is more obvious. Swim meets are broken into age groups, not levels, so you move up, whether you are at the higher level or not. And if you 'age up' before you met a goal, like a state meet qualifying time, your goals just got harder.

 

Swimming costs us $6,000 a year, requires huge time commitments, 20+ hours a week, and takes up every other weekend for 7 months a year. I work to pay for his swimming so it is a big time commitment for me too.

 

So, here is the question. Have you ever decided to have a child quit a sport/activity because they didn't have a great talent, but still 'liked' the sport? Ds may catch up physically, or he may not. He could swim for 3 more years and get no where, or he could surprise us and get a college scholarship out of it.

 

I have asked him, in a more casual way, and he says he wants to swim. My heart says, if he is willing to put soooo much effort into something, we should just let him. But it comes at a great expense both financially and time wise to the rest of the family. It is also a trade off for him, in loosing things he enjoyed because he no long has time for them like piano, literature discussion and other activities.

 

When do you say...it is time to stop. I know that this has to be common in ballet dancers, that are great...but aren't going to preform professionally. Or wrestlers, or baseball players, musical instrument lessons or any other activity that your child has a desire for.

 

I know he will swim for one more season, we have already decided that, but after that... I don't know.

[KS_]

 

I have asked him, in a more casual way, and he says he wants to swim. My heart says, if he is willing to put soooo much effort into something, we should just let him. But it comes at a great expense both financially and time wise to the rest of the family. It is also a trade off for him, in loosing things he enjoyed because he no long has time for them like piano, literature discussion and other activities.

 

 

 

That's difficult, since he's already involved and enjoys it. But I think you do have to count the costs involved and decide how much you are willing to pay in both money and other things he loses out on. For our family (at least at this point, and my kids are younger), we don't have extra activities that are expensive and would either put a strain on our finances or we would have to somehow come up with that additional income to provide (me going back to work, or dh getting a second job). There are things that my kids have expressed an interest in doing, but it's just not financially do-able for us at this point, and the "costs" of me going back to work or working evenings while dh is home with the kids, are too high for our family.

[Danestress]

but there are limits. If your family simply can't afford it, or if you simply can't continue the time sacrifice, only you know that. But what I really hear you saying is, "I would be willing to do this if he were a really great swimmer and could get a scholardship to college, but I am thinking about suggesting he quit because he's not that good."

 

I have an 11 year old swimmer who is the slowest in his age group on his team. He's all heart, and the coaches love him, but he's skinny and just not FAST. He has time to get faster, though, and 11 is different from 14. But in my mind, we aren't doing sports to get a financial payout like a scholarship. We are doing it because the kids love it and because I personally think boys are much much easier to live with if they exercise very hard pretty much every day. Likewise, my boys have studies Suzuki violin for six years. They play nicely and are coming along, but they aren't really competitive. They don't have time for the youth orchestra, and this isn't a career thing for them or something that they will use to finance college. We do music and sports for their own intrinsic worth and not because we think anyone is going to swim or perform for a living.

 

My son *loves* simming and he's getting great exercise and good coaching experiences.

[Cedarmom]

Would he be willing to do some work (yard work for nieghbors for example) That would be part of my deciding factor. If he really wants to do it, then at age 14, he could help pay some of the costs. Or, since you are working to pay for costs, he could have more household responsibilites. If he loves swimming, then he is old enough to take a part in the cost.

[MamaT]

My daughter, who is a competitive gymnast, spends many hours a week in the gym, has to travel on weekends for meets, etc. It costs us thousands a year also. We haven't had a new car, made needed cosmetic repairs on the house, etc. in order to her to participate.

 

I keep waiting for her to "burn out" and say she doesn't want to do it anymore. Hasn't happened. She is more passionate about it than ever.

 

We have to make a decision in the next few months, because the level she is headed for in the fall would be even more time/money. We will have to hire a choreographer, pay for more one-on-one practices, etc.

 

We will probably stay with it because she loves it so much. Her coach says that if she sticks with it she can pretty much count on a college scholarship, but that's not our main reason for allowing her to continue. She just loves the sport and as long as she does I can't see taking it away from her.

[RJH]

If he loves it, and you guys can afford it, I would let him continue. My DS has a very expensive($10,000 per year easy) racing habit. It takes hours and hours a week to get the karts ready, and that doesn't include the actual racing day. It's his passion and his obsession. His 1st word was "car" not mama or dada. :lol: We do what needs to be done to allow him to race. But, if we could not afford it, or he stopped enjoying it, we would stop.

[Jenny in Florida]

Oops.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Jenny in Florida

[Jenny in Florida]

If he's doing that and is progressing, even if he's not keeping up with those at the top, I'd probably do what I could to make it possible for him to continue.

 

Even if he never earns a scholarship or goes to the Olympics, he'll get great exercise and have good experiences and learn lots of things about self discipline and time management and so on.

 

And, my personal belief is that kids who are busy with something productive and healthy are a lot less likely to find less appropriate ways to distract themselves.

[Tammy]

I would probably have him do some other swimming related, less expensive thing. It is not all about him and what he wants.....YOU are paying for it...and putting in so much time.

 

I doubt I would ever go get a job to pay for my child's 'extracurricular' activities.

[Tap]

Would he be willing to do some work (yard work for neighbors for example) That would be part of my deciding factor. If he really wants to do it, then at age 14, he could help pay some of the costs. Or, since you are working to pay for costs, he could have more household responsibilities. If he loves swimming, then he is old enough to take a part in the cost.

 

Nice thought, but just not practical for us. He has 1 day a week that isn't scheduled from waking to bedtime. He does some homework on this day, but tries to keep it light. He is carrying a heavy highschool load, so between swimming and school he doesn't have any free time. He does help out around the house, without being asked to he does contribute to the household chores.

[Ali in OR]

This happened to me. I ice skated from probably age 6 to age 14. At that point, the second of my two brothers graduated from high school and was starting college. With two kids in private colleges, my parents just said that was the end. I enjoyed skating and it was good exercise but it's not like I was anything close to Olympic level. I found other ways to use my time and got more involved in other activities. I think it is okay for parents to make this call...and I think it is the parent's call to make.

 

I'm kind of amazed that so many people spend so much money on kids' sports. At $6,000 a year, you can save quite a bit of money toward your own college scholarship. Certainly enough to pay for public colleges in this state. We don't have super-athletic genes in our family, so it makes the decision pretty easy. We want our kids to be active and have fun, but there are better ways for us to invest in their future than kids' sports fees.

[Tap]

If he's doing that and is progressing, even if he's not keeping up with those at the top, I'd probably do what I could to make it possible for him to continue.

 

Even if he never earns a scholarship or goes to the Olympics, he'll get great exercise and have good experiences ....

 

 

And, my personal belief is that kids who are busy with something productive and healthy are a lot less likely to find less appropriate ways to distract themselves.

 

This is the philosophy that has gotten us through so far. We really feel that sports are about Way more than the sport itself.

 

We have also joked that the fees are cheaper than Bail :D

[Tap]

At $6,000 a year, you can save quite a bit of money toward your own college scholarship.

 

I totally hear what you are saying here. We have thought the same, but we aren't in for a scholarship...just that it could be a possible benefit in the end.

[Mommyof4ks]

Could you approach it from a 'you would have more time to do other things too' stand point? If you could find a less competitive team or something, then he could still swim and do other things as well. If you can afford it and he loves it then I would ask him what he thought, but if it is a matter of money and time that you are no longer willing to give up then be up front about the fact that you want him to enjoy his passion, but other options will need to be discussed about what team he is on.

 

I agree with others in that kids who have more to do than time to do it have less chance of choosing inappropriate activities.

[PiCO]

I'm kind of amazed that so many people spend so much money on kids' sports. At $6,000 a year, you can save quite a bit of money toward your own college scholarship. Certainly enough to pay for public colleges in this state. We don't have super-athletic genes in our family, so it makes the decision pretty easy. We want our kids to be active and have fun, but there are better ways for us to invest in their future than kids' sports fees.

 

(Before I start- this is a rabbit trail. I know Tap, tap, tap does not do these things that drive me crazy. ;))

 

I totally agree that parents should not expect their "investment" in youth sports to get their child a college scholarship. I have a gymnast and a diver, both of whom people have asked if I was hoping for a scholarship. I would hate to have my child's college education depend on where she could get a scholarship to! (And, btw- I went to college on an athletic scholarship.)

 

It also greatly bothers me when parents go into debt to fund their child's athletics. I remember a couple winter olympics ago there was a news story about a family of 4 living in a one-bedroom apartment so their daughter could be an Olympic ice skater. The daughter's bedroom was the closet. I don't even remember where the son slept- on the couch I think. Dad was working two jobs, mom working one. They had moved accross the country to train with a specific coach.

 

The daughter did not make the Olympic team.

 

The health of the family has to come first, people!

[Reya]

$6000 a YEAR????????????????????

 

Um. That would be a NO. Not unless he's placing in state and has a good shot at a scholarship.

 

Sheesh. My 6-o-y is about to join swim team, and it's $235 for the year at his level. I hope there aren't a lot of hidden travel fees....

 

(I wouldn't make him quit, if he isn't that good, he wouldn't be hurt on a cheaper, less competitive team.)

[Jenny in Florida]

(The daughter did not make the Olympic team.

 

The health of the family has to come first, people!

 

Well, I think there's financial health and emotional health. And they aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

A family of six living in a one-bedroom apartment isn't necessarily unhappy. And, if it were my kid, I'd probably spend a lot of time thinking about which I would regret more: spending a few years living in a small apartment or spending the rest of my life knowing I didn't make it possible for my child to follow a dream.

 

I'm not saying I think this particular family did the right thing. I don't know enough about it to express an opinion. However, I don't think it's always a bad idea to make sacrifices of this kind.

 

Truthfully, we could be living much higher on the hog around here if we put the kids in public school and sent me back to work. We've chosen to sacrifice that income in order to give our kids the best education and childhood we could manage.

 

And, nowadays, we're spending a not-insignificant chunk of money sending our daughter to college. If she'd waited and gone locally, or even just waited until she was a more traditional age, it would probably have cost us less. But we weren't willing to hold her back and make her unhappy and spend the rest of our lives wondering if we'd done the right thing.

 

I absolutely do not approve of parents pushing a child into fulfilling the parent's dream. And I do believe that parents should try to encourage reasonable goals and expectations. In other words, if your child isn't going to have a realistic shot at the Olympics, I think it's wrong to encourage him or her to focus on that.

 

But, if this is child led and something the child in which the child has an abiding interest and a real passion, I'd always rather err on the side of too much support rather than too little.

[dalynnrmc]

Would he be willing to do some work (yard work for nieghbors for example) That would be part of my deciding factor. If he really wants to do it, then at age 14, he could help pay some of the costs. Or, since you are working to pay for costs, he could have more household responsibilites. If he loves swimming, then he is old enough to take a part in the cost.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

When I was 12 I auditioned for and was accepted to a prestigious choir... 2 hours from my home. My mother drove me back and forth one weekday plus Saturdays every week. After a year I moved into the highest "level" of choir and rehearsals were twice weekly plus Saturdays. (That year, I was able to get out of my 7th period class for the two days weekly because punctuality was a requirement for the highest choir. Previously, I'd been being about 20 minutes late - my school let out at 3 and choir started at 4:30. LOL)

 

The cost was high; semester tuition plus you had to have the uniforms hand made because of regulations like the hem being 3" below the knee... and each level of choir added an outfit to the uniform wardrobe. (There were 5 levels. I skipped the last half of the first and the first half of the second. The 5th was an elite that only had 2 dozen spots; I made it to the 4th.)

 

Anyway. After 2 years of doing this very excellent choir, I had to quit because of cost and time commitment on my parents. I was 14 at the time - and probably wouldn't have been too happy to be told I had to work to contribute to the cost, but I would have done it if it meant staying in the choir and I truly think it would have benefitted me to stay. Another couple of years and I could have driven myself, taken my younger siblings with me (we were friends with other families by that time and I'd bet Mom could've made arrangements for childcare with them), and supported the activity on my own.

 

 

But, I was good. Really good - and went to college on scholarship for music.

 

If one of my kids wanted to do an activity that was going to cost $6K/yr, I can tell you right now, they'd be flat outta luck. I'd offer him to continue after this season if and only if he can contribute to the cost of it and to the household to free you up more. If he's not willing to work to stay in the activity, he's not interested enough to continue the time and financial restraint of the activity in the first place.

 

IMHO :) Cool thread! hehehe

[JFSinIL]

My friend's dd was in gymnastics for years, and the mom worked in part to pay for it. Once the kid reached high school age she switched to cheer leading at school - a lot less $$$ and time, and the girl was ok with switching since she was not Olympic material. Could your ds find some other swimming outlet? And put the $$ towards his college fund?

 

I agree with other poster who thinks he should find a job to help pay for it if he wants to continue.

 

My youngest (12) is at a $2,400/year martial arts studio, working towards her black belt. Yes, it is pricey, but the best in our area - in business over 50 years! - and NO OTHER of my four kids has done any sport, so I feel we have gotten off cheap ;)

Edited March 25, 2009 by JFSinIL

[mooooom]

I have two kids fencing. I haven't even added up the cost for a year - I'm afraid to. When they were younger, they showed a great deal of potential, they had a terrific coach who also gave me a discount for helping out around the place.

 

7 years later... that fencing club went out of business. The boys have been moved twice (the first place became too far to drive to, and the coach paid them zero attention) each time with the prices rising... And they are no longer doing that well, they are just average - we've seen other kids they started with greatly surpass them.

 

But how do you tell them they have to stop doing something that they still look forward to and enjoy?

 

It complicates things more because my dd is now passionate about her 4H dog club, enough so that we got her an AKC puppy that she hopes to train and start showing at AKC events and do agility with. This child is passionate. She spends time every day working with our dogs (only occasionally being reminded), started studying for this summer's tests the day the subjects were announced (last fall), faithfully follows every 4H detail. This child I would not cut off unless we were destitute. She has a passion.

 

It's just not like the boys at all who seem more interested in "hanging out". I have a part time job to help pay for it all. Neither dh or I come from families where sports meant anything, we spent months with our mouths hanging open when the boys turned out to be athletic. We haven't felt qualified to deal with it - maybe we've messed up their chances somehow.

[Colleen]

Swimming costs us $6,000 a year, requires huge time commitments, 20+ hours a week, and takes up every other weekend for 7 months a year. I work to pay for his swimming so it is a big time commitment for me too...My heart says, if he is willing to put soooo much effort into something, we should just let him. But it comes at a great expense both financially and time wise to the rest of the family.

 

I am one who believes no one activity should consume such a phenomenal amount of a family's time and resources. I perceive that kind of life as very unbalanced. So, while I've never been in shoes and will never be in your shoes, I would encourage you to consider restructuring; moderation is a good thing.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Colleen

[bettyandbob]

If I could afford it, then I'd let him.

 

If the only misgiving about the activity is my own assessment of the child's ability, I don't really consider that a reason to drop the activity.

 

Reasons to drop:

1.really can't afford (meaning if he was obviously good, we'd still couldn't do it)

2. bad coaches

3. bad social influences

4. interferences with academics.

5. child doesn't like it--even if he is really good.

 

But if child likes the activity and I wouldn't question other issues if he was good then I wouldn't question other issues if he was not so good.

 

Your child may be getting benefits you don't. A strong work ethic. Perseverance. Learning what his best coping mechanisms are under stress. More.

 

Now, if you are dragging him to practice, having to remind him, forcing him out of bed. Even if he says he loves it. Whether or not he is good, I'd quit.

[Tap]

There are no other less expensive swimming opportunities? What about the Y or the Boys and Girls club? I know both of those places here have swim teams. I also know it doesn't cost anywhere near $6000 a year. They are probably not of the same caliber as the program your son is involved with, but he could still get his swimming fix.

 

We were on a less expensive team, but it wasn't serious enough. There were kids there goofing around and kids who came once a week. That isn't the environment He wants to swim in. He wants the serious team, with the serious coach. He left his old team, to follow a coach to another team. He doesn't want to be on a recreational team.

 

This thought makes me realize how much he wants to do this though. That he left the 'fun' team for the team where all the kids are serious about the sport. This is a kid who doesn't like change, so for him to change teams was a major deal.

 

Swimming does get more expensive as you get to higher levels. Kids are expected to swim 5-8+ practices a week, and the coaching fees go up with that. Clinics are not necessarily optional any longer, and there are equipment charges almost every month. Meets are not just local fun meets but require travel and several days of expenses. We don't go, but our team also does two optional meets in other states (requiring flights) a year.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Tap, tap, tap

[In The Great White North]

What state do you live in? Can he swim on the local high school team? A lot of our swimmers swim high school only in the winter. Not ideal,not as much pool time, but MUCH cheaper and a lot less time commitment (ie. bus to meets).

 

The fastest way to cut expenses is to eliminate an "away" meet (ie. hotel, gas, restaurants, etc). Could you talk the coach out of a few of those? We have several swimmers on our team who rarely, if ever, do meets that require hotels.

 

Equipment charges every month? After swimming for years? What on earth does he still need? I'm amazed.

 

He's 14, right? Next year, he can start life-guarding and help pay for it.

[Tap]

If I could afford it, then I'd let him.

 

If the only misgiving about the activity is my own assessment of the child's ability, I don't really consider that a reason to drop the activity.

 

Reasons to drop:

1.really can't afford (meaning if he was obviously good, we'd still couldn't do it). We can afford it, I would work no matter what, the money would just go somewhere else.

2. bad coaches Great coach, ranked in the top 3% of the US

3. bad social influences This is the most supportive and encouraging group of kids I have ever seen.

4. interferences with academics.It does do this, but he is maintaining a 3.5+ in highschool with an advanced academic load

5. child doesn't like it--even if he is really good. He does.

 

But if child likes the activity and I wouldn't question other issues if he was good then I wouldn't question other issues if he was not so good.

 

Your child may be getting benefits you don't. A strong work ethic. Perseverance. Learning what his best coping mechanisms are under stress. More.

 

Now, if you are dragging him to practice, having to remind him, forcing him out of bed. Even if he says he loves it. Whether or not he is good, I'd quit.

 

 

I think you and other posters have really helped me to flush out two points that I keep going back to...

 

1. He wants to do this. He asks to do this. He puts the effort in. He makes sacrifices to do this.

 

 

2. I think I put too much into the 'goals'. I don't push him in swimming...ever. I told his coach when we started, that I will encourage him, but all the pushing was up to him. I push for school, it is his responsibility to coach. I am a goal minded person. I will push myself to meet a goal. If I wasn't meeting my goals..I would quit and make new goals.

 

This line of thinking may be the most eye opening...If the only misgiving about the activity is my own assessment of the child's ability I think this is it for me right now. I wonder why he is willing to give up so much for something that he is good at, not great at. I agree that he gets way more out of swimming that just meeting goals or winning races. I just need to get over my own reasons why I would do it (if I was the swimmer), and look just at his.

[In The Great White North]

Ds14 is a competative swimmer. Ds is tall, but very thin. His physical developement is behind his fellow swimmers of the same age. Because of this he struggles to keep up in his time and age group. He is in the highest level group on a very competitive team (one of the best in the state), because of this the difference is more obvious.

 

For another perspective...

 

It's not all over, if he's not at the Olympics by 14. If your ds is on the highest level of a very competitive team, he's probably better than 90% of the 13 -14 year olds in the country. And because he is still thin and hasn't "filled out," he has a lot of potential still in him.

[Tap]

What state do you live in? Can he swim on the local high school team? A lot of our swimmers swim high school only in the winter. Not ideal,not as much pool time, but MUCH cheaper and a lot less time commitment (ie. bus to meets).

 

The fastest way to cut expenses is to eliminate an "away" meet (ie. hotel, gas, restaurants, etc). Could you talk the coach out of a few of those? We have several swimmers on our team who rarely, if ever, do meets that require hotels.

 

Equipment charges every month? After swimming for years? What on earth does he still need? I'm amazed.

 

He's 14, right? Next year, he can start life-guarding and help pay for it.

 

We are in Washington. He can't swim on a highschool team because he is in public school funded/ homeschool hybrid. They don't have a team and we live in a different district, so the schools can't coordinate across district lines. He doesn't want to swim on a PS team because they aren't as serious of a team, and he doesn't want to deal with the PS garbage. He wants to swim year round, so if he did this for part of the year he would be on two teams, and have two schedules to keep up with and two sets of coaches telling him to do different things. It really isn't an option of one or the other for him.

 

The equipment charges are for various things. The most recent is that they use bands in the pools, attached to the swimmer and to the pool, to add resistance, and thus swim in place. These kids do spinning classes 3x a week and also do land practice and get video training. You also have the typical goggles, practice suits, team suits, team sweats, caps, etc that all need replaced as the get worn or too small. $25 for goggles at 4 per yr, $25 for practice suits 4/yr, $4o for team suits 1/yr (boys are cheaper than girls $75), $15 caps 2/yr...it all adds up over the year.

 

We don't have to go to meets, but that is why they swim. We do opt out of the two out of state meets per year. Also, it is just an expense of the sport. You go not only for you but to support the team.

[Tap]

 

I am one who believes no one activity should consume such a phenomenal amount of a family's time and resources. I perceive that kind of life as very unbalanced. So, while I've never been in shoes and will never be in your shoes, I would encourage you to consider restructuring; moderation is a good thing.

 

I can understand this sentiment. I never thought I would be where I am. I used to think parents were nuts to spend this much time/money and energy into a single endeavor. But then we started and I see such Huge benefits to him, that I allowed it to start, thinking along the way that it would stop at a 'rational' level.

 

Your family does 4H. You probably don't see that as just as consuming, because it is your way of life. But if your kids didn't already live on a farm, you may see the huge financial/time commitment it takes. It is just your way of life. If they sell the animals the kids can make a profit, but not everyone does. I assume you see a huge benefit to them doing 4H each year, because it doesn't seem like you enjoy the commitment it takes from you every summer. Fair week for you isn't usually spoken of as a lovely place to be.

 

I know you only allow the kids to do recreational soccer, but if they didn't have any farm responsibilities what would they do with their time? We live in the city, so if they aren't involved in some activities, there isn't much to do that is constructive for a teenager. You can answer..volunteer work or anything else, but then you are just substituting one thing for another.

 

I think a lot of teens do like to try and do a lot of little things. DS did this too. But then he decided to let go of the little things (piano, and literature discussion, etc) to really focus on one thing that he liked the most...swimming. At his level, it isn't a couple day a week pass time anymore, just like your boys 4H isn't. The older you get the more competitive and the more commitment it takes.

[joannqn]

I agree with letting him continue swimming but somewhere else, something less expensive and time consuming.

 

My son, though MUCH younger than yours, is passionate about taekwondo. He goes 10 hours a week and practices at home (and everywhere else) constantly. He wants to do 3 hours a day Monday through Friday, but we've drawn the line for the sake of family dinner time. He wants to be on the demo team. The master and instructor have talked about wanting him on the demo team/ Demo team requires perfect attendance, shows, and additional uniform costs. It meets on Saturdays from 12-3pm, effectively making it impossible to do anything else on Saturdays. Because we like having Saturdays open for family time, outings (field trips), and park days, we've said no to demo team. We just aren't willing to make the entire family sacrifice Saturdays for demo team.

[KRG]

With just skimming the other replies--

 

if it is a financial hardship on the family, then yes, it would have to stop. If it causing both of you stress and he wanted to quit then yes, it would stop.

 

I'm all for fulfilling commitments and exposing children to different activitis but sometimes less stress and more money to put somewhere else make everyone happy.

 

We recently went thru part of this with viola lessons. Ds was frustrated and every week was a battle. He was stressed, we were stressed and his private lesson teacher was not a good match(and the only one available for lessons).

 

So standing back and realizing that ds had very little talent in the way of playing a viola and was getting stressed out over something that didn't need to cause stress, we allowed him to quit. I thought we would regret the decision but we haven't. Music is not where his strengths and talents are. It's so much easier to encourage him where he does soar than trying to make something happen.

[Colleen]

I can understand this sentiment. I never thought I would be where I am. I used to think parents were nuts to spend this much time/money and energy into a single endeavor. But then we started and I see such Huge benefits to him

 

But who's to say he wouldn't incur huge benefits from other activities? Or from having more free time rather than a ridiculously packed schedule? (I consider six days a week with every waking hour spoken for to be ridiculously packed.) You've mentioned several times that he wants to do this, he works hard at it, etc. That's great! But he's still just one person. I can't connect with one person's activities dominating a family's finances and schedule. That to me that'ss a disservice to all parties, not a benefit.

 

Your family does 4H. You probably don't see that as just as consuming, because it is your way of life. But if your kids didn't already live on a farm, you may see the huge financial/time commitment it takes. It is just your way of life. If they sell the animals the kids can make a profit, but not everyone does. I assume you see a huge benefit to them doing 4H each year, because it doesn't seem like you enjoy the commitment it takes from you every summer. Fair week for you isn't usually spoken of as a lovely place to be.

 

No, 4H isn't even remotely as consuming as what you've described. It typically requires a few days a month, aside from fair week ~ and it costs us virtually nothing.

 

I know you only allow the kids to do recreational soccer, but if they didn't have any farm responsibilities what would they do with their time? We live in the city, so if they aren't involved in some activities, there isn't much to do that is constructive for a teenager. You can answer..volunteer work or anything else, but then you are just substituting one thing for another.

 

I hear you, but I don't agree that young people need to have their every hour scheduled. I also place a lot of importance on work and volunteerism. No, I don't consider that substituting one thing for another. For one thing, variety is the spice of life. For another, service is not the same serving oneself. And when people suggested your son earn a bit of money to help pay for his swimming, you immediately said that won't work because he's too busy. That's a red flag to me.

[Nan in Mass]

Our boys are in gymnastics. It eats up lots of time and money. We don't eat dinner as a family and other nice things like that. Our boys aren't Olympic material. They don't want to belong to a rec team that isn't serious, though. So - they compete and lose. Or they train and don't qualify to compete. Mine are now old enough that I can see the benefits of doing a sport seriously even if you aren't good at it. My 21yo just got through a tough training period at the beginning of college and we all know that it was his gymnastics training that gave him the self-discipline to do it. My 18 year old has been on trips where he had to walk an average of 15 miles a day for three months in a strange country, and my youngest (14) just began doing that. Gymnastics has taught them so much more than just to flip or swing around a bar. If you don't mind working to support it, then perhaps you should let your son keep doing it. If losing begins to depress him or affect his self-estime (mine don't care much), or your working is too much of a burden, or he decides it is no longer fun, or the coaches refuse to train him anymore, then I would stop, but as long as he wants to do it and you can manage it without undue sacrifice, then I wouldn't worry too much about whether he is competative or not. It is nice to have the extra parenting help a coach gives, especially as boys get older.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

These are in no particular order:

 

They like being strong.

They like being stronger than their friends.

They like that their bodies will do just about anything they ask them to do.

They like looking good.

There is a certain prestige that goes with being a competative athlete, even one that loses.

They like the single-mindedness that training that hard gives them.

They like how peaceful they feel the rest of time. (When their gym collapsed mid-June, we thought we'd wait until fall to find a new one, but by the end of one single week, the boys hated themselves. They said they felt like they were crawling out of their skin and they couldn't concentrate and they were going crazy. I put them straight in the car and we drove to the YMCA and signed them up for the gym team there. My normally calm children were wild-eyed and desparate. Yikes! Obviously they were working off major amounts of teenage aggression and angst that none of us even knew they had!)

They like having a trainer (their coach).

They like having a mentor (their coach).

They like being part of a team and training with the team every day.

They like having teammates.

They like the self-discipline they have learned. They know they can make themselves do something if they want to, even if they don't feel like it.

They have actually said all these things themselves; they aren't things that I'm just guessing at or assuming.

There is much more to being an athlete than just liking to win, I guess. : )

-Nan

[Liza Q]

Nan-

 

I found your list of benefits wonderful and I am printing it out in case my son is one who turns out to need all that!!

[Tap]

No, 4H isn't even remotely as consuming as what you've described. It typically requires a few days a month, aside from fair week ~ and it costs us virtually nothing.

 

Wow, so who feeds the animals? Who pays the vet bills? Who buys the animals? Who pays for feed, vaccinations, grooming supplies? Trucks and trailers to haul the animals to the arena? Even if the animals are bred on your farm, there are surprise breech calves that require a vet for delivery, etc.

 

I have friends who have goats that they bottle fed, round the clock as kids. Cows that broke through fences. Horses that required expensive vet bills.

 

Saddles, leads, and boots....it is all part of the cost. Especially to city kids, who don't already own anything resembling rubber boots.

[Colleen]

Wow, so who feeds the animals? Who pays the vet bills? Who buys the animals? Who pays for feed, vaccinations, grooming supplies? Trucks and trailers to haul the animals to the arena? Even if the animals are bred on your farm, there are surprise breech calves that require a vet for delivery, etc.

 

We'd own our dairy cows ~ and incur the costs of owning them ~ regardless of whether or not our boys were in 4H. The added costs of 4H are minimal. We own a trailer to haul animals ~ and again, we'd own it regardless. The fairground is 3 miles away. If we didn't own dairy cows, our boys wouldn't be involved with 4H dairy.

[Nan in Mass]

The problem is that on cheaper, less competative teams, sometimes the coaching isn't good (risking injuries) and the training isn't that intense, all-consuming training that sometimes boys, even ones that aren't good, crave.

[Tap]

 

We'd own our dairy cows ~ and incur the costs of owning them ~ regardless of whether or not our boys were in 4H. The added costs of 4H are minimal. We own a trailer to haul animals ~ and again, we'd own it regardless. The fairground is 3 miles away. If we didn't own dairy cows, our boys wouldn't be involved with 4H dairy.

 

I understand that, but don't your kids have any responsibilities on the farm? Do they not participate in the upbringing of the animals? I don't think that your farm is a big 4H project. LOL. But I assume they are part of the process, and if they are like most farm kids I know, they are a Big part of the process. Teens often have a couple hours a day of chores, 7 days a week.

 

 

How much time a day does your teen spend doing chores, that a teen who lives in the city wouldn't have.

 

Ds does 30 minutes a day doing dishes. We don't have pets so he doesn't have pet duties. He watches his sisters for me...I'll guess 2 hours a week. So, ds14 has 5 1/2 hours a week of chores/family duties. I would guess that is pretty typical based on his friends responsibilities.

[Tap]

The problem is that on cheaper, less competative teams, sometimes the coaching isn't good (risking injuries) and the training isn't that intense, all-consuming training that sometimes boys, even ones that aren't good, crave.

 

Yep! Exactly. You do get what you pay for in coaches! There are always exceptions to the rule, but in our circumstance, this is absolutely true.

[NCMom]

If we didn't have the money he wouldn't be doing it. If we did then maybe I'd be ok with it.

 

My issue would be the time. I think that is too much time spent training at too early an age. It is not typical of even the very best teams here. I've noticed that the northern and western teams do tend toward this though.

 

We do live near 2 VERY competitive teams. MAC, that produced Ricky Berens, among many others, and YSSC (check out the number of Top 16 girls they have!). Neither of these teams requires meets you have to fly to and/or things like spinning classes for dryland. It just seems like a lot of expensive extras.

 

So I have to ask - how many Jr. Nationals does your team field in a year? My girls swim on a competitive team, but it's very small, so we get maybe 1 a year. Is your son getting triples/ quads or jr. national cuts? We do have 5 or so state champions (1st in the state) in the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups and 1 Top 16 swimmer on our team. No one in 13-14 is allowed to swim more than 5x a week and no one in that group does dryland, except at regular practice, yet.

 

I guess my point is that I would want to see a payoff for such a large time commitment. Otherwise I would find a competitive team that was not quite so expensive in terms of money or life hours. :001_smile:

 

We have plenty of graduate swimmers from our team each year who walk on at various colleges with middling to good times and who love what they do but I've not seen any who have made that level of commitment. Last year I think 3 people were recruited off our team (1 to Emory) and again none had that much invested at all. Olympic bound swimmers maybe, for us anyway, not so much.

 

Jmho and not worth much!

Georgia

[katemary63]

I would probably have him do some other swimming related, less expensive thing. It is not all about him and what he wants.....YOU are paying for it...and putting in so much time.

 

I doubt I would ever go get a job to pay for my child's 'extracurricular' activities.

 

This is me. If I had a kid in a sport and that kid seemed to be a super shining star with gobs of natural talent, I *might* think about going the extra mile to let him be involved in a competitive team. But probably not. And if they LOVED it but were just ordinary at it? No way. I would get them in some seasonal, regular, less expensive option.

 

I would never consider working just to put a kid in a sport. I would never make our family life revolve around a kid's love of sports. Just no way. Sports are great, but there is more to life for us. I know others feel differently.

 

I know a family with a DD in competitive soccer. The whole family, including mom and 4 other siblings are slaves to this one DD's schedule. DH thinks she's exceptional and wants her to compete at the highest level. "She might get a scholarship!" So what! Why are 4 other lives being sapped and drained because 1 kid loves soccer and might get a scholarship? Dumb.

Edited March 26, 2009 by katemary63

[katemary63]

 

I'm kind of amazed that so many people spend so much money on kids' sports. At $6,000 a year, you can save quite a bit of money toward your own college scholarship. Certainly enough to pay for public colleges in this state. We don't have super-athletic genes in our family, so it makes the decision pretty easy. We want our kids to be active and have fun, but there are better ways for us to invest in their future than kids' sports fees.

 

:iagree:

[74Heaven]

Ds14 is a competative swimmer. Ds is tall, but very thin. His physical developement is behind his fellow swimmers of the same age. Because of this he struggles to keep up in his time and age group. He is in the highest level group on a very competitive team (one of the best in the state), because of this the difference is more obvious. Swim meets are broken into age groups, not levels, so you move up, whether you are at the higher level or not. And if you 'age up' before you met a goal, like a state meet qualifying time, your goals just got harder.

 

Swimming costs us $6,000 a year, requires huge time commitments, 20+ hours a week, and takes up every other weekend for 7 months a year. I work to pay for his swimming so it is a big time commitment for me too.

 

 

I know you didn't ask this, but could you cut back and still participate. I imagine some of the money is travel to swim meets. Could you cut back on the meets by 20% or something? I am just wondering if you can support your son's interest/commitment and yet, balance that with family and time and money commitments. It is possible too that if he was swimming less and had other interests, he might find something he also likes and that might pull his interest/commitment to swimming.

 

Initially this may look impossible, but if you decide what your priorities are (i.e. only one swim meet a month in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb or something that can be realistic for your team's schedule), you might be able to carve some much needed down time into your family's life.

 

Lisaj, who has kids on a less competitive level of swim team

Edited March 26, 2009 by 74Heaven
typos

[Tap]

 

My issue would be the time. I think that is too much time spent training at too early an age. It is not typical of even the very best teams here. I've noticed that the northern and western teams do tend toward this though. Practices in the pool, for his age group, in our area is 5-8 depending on the team. Most teams do some form of dry land training, 3-4 days a week. Ds14 is in the pool 5-6 days, spinning/dry land 3, video 3 days (used to fill a rest break between dry land and swimming. He has 9-11 hours pool time, 5 1/2 video/land and 6 hours of commute as his team is 30 minutes away.

 

 

So I have to ask - how many Jr. Nationals does your team field in a year? I think they expect to be sending 3 or 4 this year. One placed in the top 10 at nationals last year, two in the top 15. I was curious how we fall so I checked out a few stats. We have 70 swimmers in 6 different brackets, from the very beginning swimmer level. We sent 41 to state, 24 to sectionals, 19 to Far West, and 3 to Senior Sectionals. The team has been in existence for maybe 5-7 years.

 

 

 

His practice schedule is a common schedule here. He saves Wednesday night and Sunday for church and family. If there is no church activity on Wednesday, he swims. He swims the least amount of practices of anyone on the senior sectional team.

[Tap]

These are in no particular order:

 

They like being strong.

They like being stronger than their friends.

They like that their bodies will do just about anything they ask them to do.

They like looking good.

There is a certain prestige that goes with being a competative athlete, even one that loses.

They like the single-mindedness that training that hard gives them.

They like how peaceful they feel the rest of time. (When their gym collapsed mid-June, we thought we'd wait until fall to find a new one, but by the end of one single week, the boys hated themselves. They said they felt like they were crawling out of their skin and they couldn't concentrate and they were going crazy. I put them straight in the car and we drove to the YMCA and signed them up for the gym team there. My normally calm children were wild-eyed and desparate. Yikes! Obviously they were working off major amounts of teenage aggression and angst that none of us even knew they had!)

They like having a trainer (their coach).

They like having a mentor (their coach).

They like being part of a team and training with the team every day.

They like having teammates.

They like the self-discipline they have learned. They know they can make themselves do something if they want to, even if they don't feel like it.

They have actually said all these things themselves; they aren't things that I'm just guessing at or assuming.

There is much more to being an athlete than just liking to win, I guess. : )

-Nan

 

:D

[Rosy]

I love your comment about it being cheaper than bail! :)

 

I don't have high schoolers yet, but I think the fact that he has found a healthy, positive activity that he enjoys that you're able to make work is enough reason to keep doing it. My high school had one of the top marching band programs in the state, and it was pretty all-consuming for me. During marching season we had evening and weekend practices, band camp, competitions, football games, etc. that probably took 20+ hours a week. We practiced at home. I spent 2 periods a day in band (zero pd. before school, starting at 6:30 for Jazz Band). I also spent my summers competing with a Drum & Bugle Corps. I performed before 1000s of people. I played solos. I learned leadership and teamwork. I made friends that I still have almost 20 years later.

 

I didn't get a music scholarship...I haven't even touched my trumpet since graduation (except once, which was a huge mistake!!). But those years shaped me. They were absolutely worth the time I put in--and we didn't spend that much $$, but we did spend quite a bit, and theoretically I probably would have done my last two years of high school at the community college if I wasn't so invested in what I was doing with band. Most of my friends from high school will say that they had the most squeaky clean backgrounds of their current acquaintances (not that we were perfect, but we did stay out of trouble for the most part).

 

My hope is that my kids can find something like that--preferably something that will have career/college benefits, but I think even if an activity doesn't lead directly to a job or scholarship, the character development benefits are likely to lead to greater success in life.

[SherryTX]

I agree - I would try to find other swimming related activities. Is there a swimming club that is non competitive that he could join that is cheaper? Or find another physical activity he may enjoy you can afford.

It is hard, but this could be an important lesson for him - you are not giving up on him, but you have to make a decision based on the facts. If the costs is just too much, have a sit down with him and explain the situation. You may be surprised - he may be disappointed very much, but he also may understand and accept it.

 

Having a job just to pay for one kids activity can be rough. I don't think it is wrong, and I admire the fact you have been able to do this for so long. However, you have to weigh the pros and cons.

 

One other alternative: could he just take 3 to 6 months off and save you some money? He could still go swimming so he doesn't get completely out of shape. However, maybe the break would give him a breather, (and you), and if you can afford it he can go back in.

 

By the way, I never realized swimming was that expensive!

[Mom2boys]

Is your son's swimming having a negative impact on your daughters (lack of family together time, or lack of time for your 10 year old to pursue her interests)? If not, then I would let him keep swimming with this team based on everything you have said.

[Tap]

Is your son's swimming having a negative impact on your daughters (lack of family together time, or lack of time for your 10 year old to pursue her interests)? If not, then I would let him keep swimming with this team based on everything you have said.

 

 

Dd10 doesn't mind him swimming, in fact sometimes it ends up with her getting more one on one time, because he is busy. Dd10 takes her own classes and has her own interests, and they don't overlap, so it really doesn't affect her.

 

Dd2, is in bed when I am picking the boys up at night (I do the pick-up part of carpool), so she misses only about 15 minutes a night with me.

 

For meets, dh and usually split days, so dd10 doesn't have to usually go, we avoid having the toddler there.

 

The only thing it really affects is when we take vacations, we have to be respectful of the meet schedule.

 

I am away from the house 20 hours a week for work. Part of my paycheck does go to swimming, but I would work anyways. I always have. I need to work, for my own mental health. The money would just go to something else if swimming wasn't in the picture. My paycheck has always paid for classes, tutors, lessons etc, any thing that was optional. If he stopped swimming, he would pick up his other activities, that while they weren't as expensive...weren't cheap either.

 

So, really it doesn't affect them too much.

[Jenny in Florida]

I didn't get a music scholarship...I haven't even touched my trumpet since graduation (except once, which was a huge mistake!!). But those years shaped me. They were absolutely worth the time I put in--and we didn't spend that much $$, but we did spend quite a bit, and theoretically I probably would have done my last two years of high school at the community college if I wasn't so invested in what I was doing with band. Most of my friends from high school will say that they had the most squeaky clean backgrounds of their current acquaintances (not that we were perfect, but we did stay out of trouble for the most part).

 

My hope is that my kids can find something like that--preferably something that will have career/college benefits, but I think even if an activity doesn't lead directly to a job or scholarship, the character development benefits are likely to lead to greater success in life.

 

Thanks for sharing this. That's the kind of story I hear over and over about kids who have intense interests in somehting during their teen years.