Am I a snob? Or, are these compositions a valid reason not to join this co-op?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I'm looking for a support group or co-op for 2009/10. I was interested in a certain group until I saw a blog post sharing fourth to sixth grade compositions.

 

I don't want to be a snob, here, but I admit I don't like the look of these compositions. Do the leaders of the group consider these writings to be typical for fourth to sixth grade? Are they typical? Why didn't they teach the children to correct the mistakes before publishing?

 

If my second grader made those errors in his writing, I'd correct him and he would re-copy. Am I too strict? Do I expect too much? My dc don't seem to mind...

 

Should I really dismiss a support group out of hand just because of this?

 

Edited to post examples instead of link:

 

Example #1

My sister S---- is the sibling I am going to tell about. S---- and I like to play together. S---- and I like to talk to each other. S--- and I like to read together. One of the things we like to play together is house.

Another is with our build-a-bears. We also like to play webkinz on line. We also like to play outside together. We like to ride bikes together. S---- and I like to bake together. S---- and I have a lot of fun together.

Example #2

Some things I like about A---- is he is funny and he is nice. He can always make me laugh even when I am sad. He keeps me safe. Like one time I was sleep talking and was saying, “No, no, go away. Help!” A---- woke up and heard me. He thought I was in a different room. He got up and got his airsoft gun and ran upstairs. He told mom, and she told him I was having a bad dream.

I know if something was really wrong, he would do something fast. I love my brother and he loves me. When he goes on his trips I don’t feel safe, and I feel like a piece of my heart is missing.

Example #3

I like S---- and E---- because they are fun. I know that E---- likes me because I have blue eyes. M--- W----’ light-saber is purple, which is close to blue.

E---- is really funny. His best friend is J----. S---- is sort of funny. His best friends are Q---- and N----. My favorite part about E---- is how funny he is. My favorite part about S---- is he is fun to play with. They are fun.

Example #4

I love E---- because he is one-of-a-kind, and for other reasons. He is supposed to have 46 chromosomes but he has 48, which kind of explains Downs Syndrome. I love EZ sooooo much when he does his “dancer boy.” When he does this someone holds his hands and pulls him up, so he sits. Then he does my favorite thing: his eyes get HUGE, and he smiles really big and laughs. Then he starts to swing his body from side to side, forward and back, even around in circles!

I think it’s cute when he smiles and laughs. Sometimes he has a really dull expression, but, odd enough, I think it’s cute. I love one of his noises, but I can’t explain it. If you heard it you’d think it’s cute.

I like EZ because he can’t talk…so he can’t argue with me! I know when he gets older he’ll be a sweet pea! I also just like him ’cause he’s a baby (the cutest baby!) E---- is #1!

Edited March 19, 2009 by Dulcimeramy

[Laurie]

Do you think it might be better to just cut and paste some examples, without a direct link to the blog, so that the children's names aren't included here?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Do you think it might be better to just cut and paste some examples, without a direct link to the blog, so that the children's names aren't included here?

 

Done! Thanks for the suggestion :)

[SonshineLearner]

I'm not sure; what other subjects do they do together. How much money and time does it cost? Is the social interaction something you're really wanting? Are there more academic coops in the area? Is this the "best work" that they have, or could it be on the blog because of a specific assignment. I guess what I'm trying to say, it that they are cute paragraphs, kinda.... My daughter is 10 and is doing little paragraphs. I hope they are a bit better....Hmmm

Carrie

[Ellie]

I would not bother.

 

A co-op is not necessarily a support group. Maybe you should just look for a support group and not a co-op.

[Kelli in TN]

What are you looking for? Do you like the adults involved? Do you like the children? What does the co-op offer? What does it cost?

 

My co-op is free, parent led, mostly enrichment, very social, pretty inclusive (to my church family, sounds snotty but we did not set out to form a big fancy tutorial, we just wanted to hang with each other) and perfect for our needs. I don't judge where the other kids are academically and I hope nobody is judging where mine are.

 

But if I were joining one of the big tutorials that cost in the hundreds I would be turned off by poor workmanship. I would want some bang for my buck.

[specialmama]

I would ditto Kelli... it depends what you're looking for. They aren't terrible paragraphs, but certainly nothing to aim towards IMO. Due to the variety of ages, it is possible that all the kids are being challenged *just* enough. What I mean is, if your children were to go, I'm sure they'd still be challenged to step it up a notch for them. Also, if you need the outting, the social connection with other homeschoolers, then go for it. It is good to remember that all kids are at different levels and abilities in different subjects, and perhaps they genuinely are improving at their own rate. Perhaps their science skills are through the roof? So as much as I understand where you're coming from, I'm being pulled back into reality and remembering that our own kids are not measuring up to someone else's yardstick. And that's just fine. :001_smile:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Thank you all for your input!

 

I'm not sure what to do. As I said in my OP, I don't really have a handle on skill levels for various age groups. If these compositions are within the range of normal, then that is fine with me. Average is fine, below average is not as fine.

 

I am still thinking it through, but I believe our main goal for next year is to make friends with local homeschoolers. Stellar writing skills are not a prerequisite for friendship, I know!

 

On the other hand, we live in an extremely poor school district. Our local schools only graduate 19% of high school seniors. My sons have good friends at church, but I have recently become aware that my boys are hiding their literacy skills in Sunday school. When asked by his teacher if he had ever memorized a Bible verse, my 8yo. lied and said he hadn't because none of the other children had ever memorized a verse. My two oldest sons dropped out of LTC (Leadership Training for Christ) because they were embarrassed by the dumbing down of the program. So little is expected of the kids, even compared to when we joined three years ago.

 

They like to get together for socializing with their church friends, but I think they also need some like-minded people to encourage their academics a bit.

 

We've been homeschooling for 9 years but I've never joined a formal group before. We had homeschooling relatives and friends nearby, but they all moved away. I think maybe I'm just nervous!

[Ria]

I have been involved in (as a parent) and taught in (as a parent and teacher) various co-ops for the past 15 years. The writing you posted would have made me happy in my last assignment - as a high school English teacher. Let's not go there.

 

Join a co-op only if you are content to provide the education your kids receive when you are at home. If you expect the kids to get education at the co-op, you might very well find yourself looking at your kids' writing compared to...well....what you saw. While that might not be bad for elementary school, it's a darn shame in high school.

 

Join a co-op for social reasons only. Do the academics that count at home. Anything they get at co-op is gravy, and you won't lose sleep over it.

 

Ria

[JoyfulMama]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as though you are looking for a co=op for enrichment/friendship, and not academic. If so, then I wouln't worry about it! However, if you are investing your time and money on an academic co-op to teach something you aren't comfortable teaching, then I would think again if you are not satisfied with what your children might complete for assignments.

[Laurie4b]

In my experience, including tutoring immigrant kids who are below grade level, paragraphs 1 &3 are below grade level. I'd guesstimate about 2nd grade writing level. Paragraphs 2 & 4 are grade level and definitely show some potential . Part of what you would need to know to evaluate the quality of the writing instruction is where the kids were starting from. If from nada-zero-zilch, then P's 1 & 3 are a step in the right direction.

[Cathy in SoCal]

don't look terribly impressive to me. I found when we were a part of a co-op, I ended up doing much more than I wanted to outside the home and had less energy and time to give to teaching my kids at home. We ended up finding great outside social/extra-curricula stuff with a group of families on our own as time went by.

[Hillary in KS]

Former 4th grade teacher here. I'd consider the paragraphs you posted *generally* average to below average for a 4th grader. (At least from what I had in our district> yours may be completely different.)

 

I would have read them and thought, "Hokay! We have some work to do this year," but I wouldn't have been alarmed at all.

 

Now, if these are from 6th graders, then yes, I think they're below average.

 

BUT!!! If you're joining the co-op because you want social interaction, I wouldn't let the essays stop you. The writing class isn't your focus. I'd look more at the management of the group: behavior, interactions between children and teachers,etc.

[Murphy101]

This is why I'm not in an academic coop.

What I demand is far ummm more rigorous for lack of a more polite term.

#4 was the only one near acceptable for a 4th grader, imo.

I too would have insisted on editing of it prior to publishing.

 

If you join that coop - do it for reasons other than academic.

[Mommyof4ks]

:iagree: If you are looking for socialization, then don't worry about it. We attend a co-op with many class offerings, and though there are some academic choices my dd usually picks fun classes. That is fine by me, because we were looking for more opportunities for her to be with her friends and practice social skills with peers. We do have the kids in other activities that we expect a certain level of achievement, but not coop.

 

My 3rd grader writes like a couple of those kiddos, and I consider her behind in writing. She is a great reader and artist, but writing is not her strong suit. I am not a certified teacher, so take that for what it's worth.

[Cindyg]

If my child had written #2, I'd be delighted! (Not the gun reference, but the love for the sibling.)

 

Quite frankly, these look like compositions that the kids did totally on their own in a single effort. I have no idea what my 5th grader would come up with if I locked him in a room with a pencil and paper and told him he couldn't come out until he had written a composition. It would probably be pitiful.

 

Our method of doing compositions is to do them together. We spend one day planning, next day draft, next day revise, next day proofread, next day publish. Of course his compositions look much more polished than those.

 

But if he had to write a composition on his own in a single pop...hmmm...I'd probably be happy with what you've got there.

 

And beyond the writing "skills," some of those compositions reflect very nice children!

[Karen in CO]

There is a lot to be said about finding more information about the kids and the parents. I was part of a co-op just for social reasons. Later, I found that many of the parents considered the co-op to be the most academic part of their homeschooling. We were at different ends of the educational spectrum. I couldn't talk academics with them because we had nothing in common - no shared definitions of education to work with. My kids made friends but quickly found that the friendships weren't very deep because they didn't have things in common - no shared interests.

 

Look at the co-op as a whole. Look at how it will fit you socially. Look to see if these people could be friends with your kids. Don't look to them to teach your kids, but do make sure that you share some sort of educational philosophies.

[Karen sn]

Well, I'd join just cause they sound like real nice kids!!!!!!

"A piece of my heart is missing" that is too sweet!

And the last one - that baby is loved!

Edited March 19, 2009 by Karen sn

[Bess]

Well, I'd join just cause they sound like real nice kids!!!!!!

"A piece of my heart is missing" that is too sweet!

And the last one - that baby is loved!

 

I agree... they might not have been "grade level", but they were most definitely sweet. I'd take sweet over grade level any day!

[Jenny in Florida]

First, as others have asked, is this something you'd be doing for social reasons? Or academic? Although, to be honest, if you're unimpressed with those samples (and I am, by the way) and joining the co-op would mean having your child sit through classes that produced them . . . I'd think twice.

 

Also, are these being "shown off" as examples of the work kids in this co-op do? If so, and that's the best they've got . . . I'd think three or four times.

 

Now, if this is primarily a social outlet and these are just snippets from a newsletter kind of thing that the kids put together for fun, then it might not put me off. The last time my kids and I tried a support group, my daughter volunteered to edit the group newsletter. We solicited submissions from all the kids, of all ages, and made a committment from the beginning not to edit submissions beyond recognition. So, she corrected spelling and punctuation mistakes, but often chose to leave questionable grammar intact. If these are from something like that, well, it's a different story.

[Reya]

These are appalling. No way would I accept that for a 4th or 6th grader! For 2nd grade, it'd be pretty good.

 

Check out the TAKS tests scoring guides for 4th grade:

 

http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/resources/release/taks/2006/g4sg.pdf

[Peela]

I have one reluctant writer- I would have considered those pieces of writing adequate for him at those ages.

is it a "classical" coop? Many homeschoolers are gentle in those years and dont pick up the pace (and start panicking, often) until the teenager years.

It depends on why you are going. I agree, they sound like sweet kids.

[MyThreeSons]

and therefore the parents are ultimately responsible for the what the students learn and do. We can't possibly teach everything in the short time we have them each week.

 

So, in this case, while other students' parents may be content with the writing samples you posted, you would be encouraged to help your students write to the level you require for them.

[Stacey in MA]

FYI, there is still a mention of one's child's name in your original post. Thought you'd want to know and eliminate it....

[Bee]

I loved example #4.Maybe I just have an active imagination or maybe I just wish my reluctant writers would write something like that. Writing is a skill that takes time and effort to develop.Not all parents or children are willing to work at it. Sometimes the parents really try but the child simply resists it. I agree with Ria.Co-ops, because of the variety of people they serve, are better suited for socialization than any serious learning. (Which isn't to say that real learning can't take place there, it's just that not everyone there will share your goals.)

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Thank you all so much for your comments! I've been mulling it all over.

 

I agree that the children seem so sweet, especially the girl who thinks her little brother is #1! That's not reason enough to join a co-op, though. We already have nice friends and relatives.

 

I think a co-op is probably not right for us after all. I'm going to re-focus my search toward social and service groups for the older boys, and play groups for the younger boys.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

FYI, there is still a mention of one's child's name in your original post. Thought you'd want to know and eliminate it....

 

I fixed it! Thanks.

[SonshineLearner]

If you want a really great writing co-op, you could try the IEW site to see if they list coops going on....I really like IEW in a coop situation. The writing isn't perfect, but even my 11th grader has really enjoyed the process of going through IEW. She's a good writer, already, but says that IEW has given her points to think about in constructing her papers.

Classical Conversations has a short time each week to converse about IEW/ writing. At least in our CC group, there are a majority of families who pursue academics in an organized fashion.

Carrie:-)