jenn- Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Does your state have a homeschooling loophole that allows public schools to deny services to kids? My boys currently receive speech services through the school district as preschoolers. As of this coming school year they will be old enough to go to school as Kindergartners. I just got a call from their speech teacher telling me that unless they are enrolled in either a public or private school that the district is not required to provide services. Now why the would provide them for private school students that they make no money off of, vs homeschoolers they make no money off of, I have no clue. I have already told our speech teacher that they are going to be considered preschoolers next year, and we had every intention of holding them out the extra year because of their date of birth, not because we intend to homeschool. The agreement I have with my DH is that we are using next year as our experiment for them. If I can get them doing K work and show progress by the end of the year, we will consider homeschooling them. If I can't get them to a point we are happy, they will enter the public school as Kindergartners in 2010. So does anyone else have to jump threw legal red tape to get their kids services? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 the speech teacher is in error, most likely unknowingly I hope. FEDERAL law mandates via the IDEA program that every child who's parents want special services have access to those services. I could be wrong, but this is my understanding from chatting online with other mothers from states other than mine. Someone please correct me if I am wrong? HSLDA might be able to help if the district is being obtuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I've heard the same thing as Martha; you might want to do a search on the special needs board...seems to me there was a discussion of this very thing not too long ago. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylk in tx Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It appears that districts do NOT have to provide services to students were are not enrolled in public schools. The LEA’s obligations to parentally placed private school children with disabilities are different from its responsibilities to those enrolled in public schools or to children with disabilities placed in a private school by a public agency (rather than by parents) as a means of providing FAPE. Parentally placed children with disabilities do not have an individual entitlement to services they would receive if they were enrolled in a public school. Instead, the LEA is required to spend a proportionate amount of IDEA federal funds to provide equitable services to this group of children. Therefore, it is possible that some parentally placed children with disabilities will not receive any services while others will. For those who receive services, the amount and type of services also may differ from the services the child would receive if placed in a public school by the parents or in a private school by a public agency. http://www.rrfcnetwork.org/images/stories/FRC/IDEA/idea.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 it might depend on what area you are in..have you thought about getting a special education services parent advocate? My friend hired one to go in with her when setting up her son's isp. She has since pulled him out and I am homeschooling him. She was told that they could not deny her services, but that they were not required to give her services if the district couldn't afford it.:001_huh: and guess what...they couldn't afford it... okay then. We are in Ca..so we enrolled him in a public homeschool charter, and that school is providing some services...not the whole cart and pony show the regular ps school was giving, but it seems between the homeschooling and the new scaled-down services, his needs are finally being met. good luck. I do recommend an advocate, they know the laws and can help you navigate your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Actually, things changed within the last year. The Federal government has stopped funding these services, and many states have stopped covering them as well. I know that this is true for New Mexico, and I believe I heard that a similar thing happened in New York. I don't know how many states are affected with the change. Around here, the school district just this year announced to folks that they would no longer be receiving those services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It looks to me like it depends on whether your state considers a home school to be a private school. From an HSLDA Illinois case: The issue of whether home-educated students are eligible to receive special education services had already been acknowledged at a federal level. In federal reports regarding issues surrounding those eligible for IDEA, the Federal Director of Special Education in a letter procured by HSLDA stated: "The determination of whether a home education arrangement constitutes private school placement must be made on the basis of state law. Thus, if home education constitutes enrollment in a private school under state law, then the requirements of Regs. 300.403 and 300.452 apply when deciding whether to provide special education or related services to a child with disabilities who is being educated at home." The above report makes it crystal clear that if the state recognizes a home education program as a private school in that state, then those home-educated students are eligible for the services. In WA, home schoolers can get special ed services even though we aren't considered a private school. It is just provided. The state provides special ed funding from a different fund than the general education fund so the school still gets money from the state for the services your child receives. However, based on what I know, having a parent advocate with you any time you deal with IEP stuff, is always a good idea. Sometimes, schools will tell you bull because they can. An advocate knows the laws and can prevent that from happening. Sometimes just having the advocate with you is enough to keep the school officials in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy2BaMom Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (I'm copying this from my Special Ed textbook from my M.S. Ed program): "According to IDEA, all students, regardless of disability, are entitled to a free and appropriate public education (FAPE), including access to the general education curriculum." IDEA applies to educational institutions that receive public funding. It does not apply to parents/children outside the institution. There are other principles of IDEA, but they all apply to what & how the school district is supposed to operate. Sometimes it is confusing because there is discretionary funding provided through IDEA for young children (ages 0-3) who have disabilities to receive services. Also, most county governments fund programs - such as ChildFind - that provide services for preschoolers. Sometimes these different sources of money are thrown into a big pot & services are provided through the school district (as it is more efficient to pool the resources). Your children, however, have to fall under IDEA regs in order to receive services once they are school-age. Private schools are normally exempt from IDEA, so the comment you received re: this is confusing. However, I'm wondering whether the private school(s) throw some money into the pot, too, in order to have access to the same services. I have not run across this situation before, so I'm swinging in the wind here, but it's the only reason I can think of why that might happen. Anyway, I think your idea of keeping them registered as preschoolers for another year due to their birth date is a good one. That should enable you to have another year of services - however, you might want to clarify as to who is providing funding for the services your boys currently receive & what the requirements are. Hope that helps - Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 In NC, the school system is required to provide testing services to all families who make a written request, including homeschool families. For therapeutic or tutoring services, the available funds are allocated first to students who are enrolled in school. If there are sufficient funds, homeschool and private school students can receive services, but I don't think there are ever enough funds to allocate services to students not enrolled in ps. I have had friends who were offered a 2 hour consultation once a month or quarter, but that's the most generous offer I've heard of in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Coming out of lurking here to say it sounds like they are trying to get rid of you. Every denial of services means $$$ to the school district's bottom line. So the default position is often "no." As someone who has had a lot of experience dealing with IEPs. I would urge you to: 1. Study the Federal IDEA law and all applicable laws from your state. Don't rely on the word of teachers or administrators. 2. Be the squeaky wheel. Parents who know their rights and are willing to make a fuss are more likely to succeed. 3. Document everything! Make important requests in writing and ask for written responses. When you talk to teachers, therapists and/or administrators be sure to take notes. 4. If necessary, get a special education advocate. Check out the Council of Parent Attorneys and Advocates website to locate one in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheerMom Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 My son is in the special ed preschool program also. I was told that homeschooled and private school kids will only get services if there are funds left after their first priority, public school kids. We are going through Scottish Rite. They receive services all year round, until age 7. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Actually, things changed within the last year. The Federal government has stopped funding these services, and many states have stopped covering them as well. I know that this is true for New Mexico, and I believe I heard that a similar thing happened in New York. I don't know how many states are affected with the change. Around here, the school district just this year announced to folks that they would no longer be receiving those services. I think this might be what is getting us. She said it was just added this past year that they were not covering home schooling students. I hope I am able to get by with calling them preschoolers one more year. If they want they can go interview a bunch of experienced K teachers and tell them they are "twin boys, born in May, with pretty severe speech delays" and see how many of them would automatically suggest holding them out an extra year without ever meeting my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niffercoo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We're in GA, and fall under the "Parentally-placed private school and homeschooled students" clause. The amount of services we're able to access for our special needs kids is based on a formula, and was around $1600 per year, the last time I inquired. It didn't seem worth it to me to get the school system involved in my lives for so small an amount. If your children fall under the compulsory attendance age for your state, though, you should be under a different portion of the IDEA act! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommylaw Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I find lots of special ed info at: http://www.wrightslaw.com/ "Parents, educators, advocates, and attorneys come to Wrightslaw for accurate, reliable information about special education law, education law, and advocacy for children with disabilities." HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita in NC Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm in NC and when my son was 4 he went to special ed. preschool through the public school so that he could get speech therapy 4 times per week. When it was time for Kindergarten I was told he would only receive services if he was enrolled in public school and I was offered services 3 times per week. In the end I homeschooled him. When I pushed them for services for a homeschooler they said I was entitled to services that were funded by Federal dollars and offered me 15 minutes once per month. I declined. I was forced to have to pay for private speech therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 It depends on what state you are in. Some states will provide services for homeschooled children, but it's not common as far as I can tell. I know our state (Michigan) does not. You can obtain the services by enrolling the child in public school. Otherwise, you pay on your own. It has been that way as long as dh has taught here (10 plus years.) Our last state didn't either (Ohio,) although some individual school districts would provide services anyway. It's one thing you give up by making the choice to homeschool, but there is so much to be gained, I think it comes out a win. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 In MD, it's not a "loophole". Maryland law used to explicitly leave it up to the local school systems as to whether to include homeschoolers in public school-based services. That has recently changed to explicitly exclude homeschoolers, from what I understand. In a way, the change may be beneficial because the discretionary part of it caused insurance companies to refuse coverage of private therapies, unless they had a letter from the local school system stating that the school system could not provide what was needed. Of course, in order to get to that place, you need to enroll your child, get an IEP, yadda, yadda, and then you're technically refusing services by homeschooling... it was a huge, convoluted mess. Hopefully, this will help loosen the ties that have certain health services inextricably linked to public school... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hopefully, this will help loosen the ties that have certain health services inextricably linked to public school... I seriously doubt that since I could still choose to send my kids to school for free and still receive free services. Why would the insurance companies agree to pay for something I could get for free elsewhere. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaTanya Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We knew our ds needed speech services. Many in Alabama do not begin to officially homeschool until their dc is 7 (mandatory school enrollment age), but we signed up under an umbrella (private school) at 5. The ps speech teacher came to the homeschool group to provide services to those students, just like to private school students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I believe this has changed in Florida as well as I recently spoke to our home education lobbyist about this issue. Can you file under an umbrella school so that you are a private school on paper, but still a homeschooler in effect? HTH, Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 DD is under an umbrella school and I would gladly add the boys to the school this year if I have to. I just don't know if that will actually help as almost all homeschoolers here fall under the umbrella school laws for homeschoolers (in other words most of us use them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Jenn, I do not have time to read all the responses. I just wanted you to know that each state interprets IDEA differently. In NY services were dropped last year due to reinterpretation of IDEA. According to what I have read approx. 1/2 the states provide sp. ed. and 1/2 do not. Plus in some of the states (NY for example) it looks like they have put laws into effect that will now provide the services, but maybe at a very high cost to the hs family (in terms of their ability to decide what is best for their child). Sadly, I am not receiving services now and really do not want to for the simple fact that I want my dh and I to be the ones to decide how our ds is educated. It seems to be a slippery slope and I do not want my son who is bright and wonderful, but impulsive, distractable, possibly on the spectrum to be put in a school where he will not (not bad enough) to get the one on one that he needs to succeed. KWIM? HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Here it's by county. Each school district decides if they will offer services to homeschoolers. My district does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 In Missouri ps must offer all IEP students the same services they would receive in public schools even if they homeschool. Until I got on these boards, I thought that was true nationally, but now I know I am just lucky :001_smile: That doesn't mean everyone chooses to use the ps for services, many would prefer to keep away, but at least it is an option. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I seriously doubt that since I could still choose to send my kids to school for free and still receive free services. Why would the insurance companies agree to pay for something I could get for free elsewhere. :glare: That's true, but since the law has changed to not leave inclusion to the discretion of the public schools, it may help force the insurance companies doing business in the state to cover occupational services that they have previously put off on the schools. I honestly don't know what the outcome will be. Here, there are school based health and dental services as well, that public school families have to opt out of, and they will bill your insurance if you have it and allow your children to be seen in the school based program. The same could be true for therapeutic services, if they would just make that provision, and it would probably help cut the taxpayer cost of the services being provided as overhead in the public schools. I have written to all state representatives about this in the past, though I don't know if there has been any legislative discussion about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.