Is it possible that she has awesome insurance?

[sunshine]

As for the assumptions about money, if she was getting fertility treatment, there was money somewhere.

 

 

Maybe not. When I was in the process of buying my children (:D), Each week there were 2 women, younger than me in their twenties, each with 2 or 3 kids in the waiting room. The nurse and I know she shouldn't have, but she did, told me that they both were unmarried, using sperm donationa and medicaid was paying for the IVF. I was sickened. Because, #1, It was putting us into debt trying to do IUI's and that is a fraction of IVF, and #2 they didn't even speak to the children they had in motherly voices. There was a lot of "shut up", "I'm gonna smack you if you don't be still" etc.. talk. And there was an elderly grandmother looking woman who came every week to sit with the children while they went int their respective appointments. And both got pregnant. 2 more or more on the dole now.

[lionfamily1999]

Who is being 'torn apart'?

Some people disagree with her choices (as we believe them to be) and are voicing an opinion.

Calling someone, or alluding to them being, irresponsible, disrepectful, devious and underhanded (that would be the impression I get when it's thought that she might have planned this to get money), that's not tearing someone down? Then, we disagree on what is tearing someone down.

 

My point is that no one knows what those choices are! The 'choices' that people are debating are founded on nothing more than some reporters conjecture and opinion. Debating someone/their choices, based on someone else's opinion of the situation, the details of which they are not privy to, is rediculous, pointless and mean. Maybe if she got a t.v. show we could all love and respect her, oh and then argue for her right to privacy.

[lionfamily1999]

Maybe not. When I was in the process of buying my children (:D), Each week there were 2 women, younger than me in their twenties, each with 2 or 3 kids in the waiting room. The nurse and I know she shouldn't have, but she did, told me that they both were unmarried, using sperm donationa and medicaid was paying for the IVF. I was sickened. Because, #1, It was putting us into debt trying to do IUI's and that is a fraction of IVF, and #2 they didn't even speak to the children they had in motherly voices. There was a lot of "shut up", "I'm gonna smack you if you don't be still" etc.. talk. And there was an elderly grandmother looking woman who came every week to sit with the children while they went int their respective appointments. And both got pregnant. 2 more or more on the dole now.

How is that covered by Medicaid? That is a definite government issue.

[sunshine]

How is that covered by Medicaid? That is a definite government issue.

 

 

I have no idea. I shocked when the nurse told me, she also happened to be the doctor's wife so I believe her. Wait, I vaguely recall that if it is medical condition that causes infertility, it is covered. Hmm, maybe I should look into that... oh wait I have private insurance because the father of my children works every day. silly me.

[lionfamily1999]

I have no idea. I shocked when the nurse told me, she also happened to be the doctor's wife so I believe her. Wait, I vaguely recall that if it is medical condition that causes infertility, it is covered. Hmm, maybe I should look into that... oh wait I have private insurance because the father of my children works every day. silly me.

:lol:

 

So... as long as having kids would be difficult to impossible, the government will pay to get you more kids. Now it all makes sense :001_huh:

[Crissy]

Calling someone, or alluding to them being, irresponsible, disrepectful, devious and underhanded (that would be the impression I get when it's thought that she might have planned this to get money), that's not tearing someone down? Then, we disagree on what is tearing someone down.

 

Okay, we'll disagree.

I don't think discussing a very unique situation, acknowledging that we don't have all the facts and offering an opinion if such a thing were true is tearing someone down.

 

 

My point is that no one knows what those choices are!

Of course we don't. I made it clear in an earlier post that I am making assumptions based on news reports, not facts. I aslo acklnowedged that I have heard conflicting reports.

 

 

Debating someone/their choices, based on someone else's opinion of the situation, the details of which they are not privy to, is rediculous, pointless and mean. .

I disagree. I don't think it is pointless, ridiculous or mean to discuss a hypothetical situation based real-life circumstances.

Why is it wrong to form an opinion about someone's choices?

[camibami]

I guess for me, the "point" of the whole thing is: somewhere in California, a woman with octoplets is going to need some serious help to care for them.

 

Her number of previous children, marital status, financial solvency, moral character and fertility treatments don't really much matter now. No one can raise 8 newborns at one time, alone. They will need a legion of volunteers, and I hope they get them. Because no matter about anything else, those babies are here now and she will need help caring for them. I would hate for all this gossip and speculation (whether it is true or not) to interfere with that. I hope a If I lived on the same coast, I would.

[lionfamily1999]

Okay, we'll disagree.

I don't think discussing a very unique situation, acknowledging that we don't have all the facts and offering an opinion if such a thing were true is tearing someone down.

 

 

 

Of course we don't. I made it clear in an earlier post that I am making assumptions based on news reports, not facts. I aslo acklnowedged that I have heard conflicting reports.

 

 

 

I disagree. I don't think it is pointless, ridiculous or mean to discuss a hypothetical situation based real-life circumstances.

Why is it wrong to form an opinion about someone's choices?

I think that is worse than tearing someone down. Because you are questioning their actions without any knowledge of them or their true situation. IOW, the comments are negative and they are made against a person that is not known, neither is their real situation. Being negative about someone with nothing to support that negativity other than gossip... how can that not be tearing them down?

 

Because this is not a hypothetical situation. It is a real situation with a real woman and her real children. It's not wrong to form an opinion, but it is wrong to form an opinion about someone about whom you know nothing.

[Crissy]

It's not wrong to form an opinion, but it is wrong to form an opinion about someone about whom you know nothing.

The difference is that I am forming an opinion about circumstances not about a person.

[TravelingChris]

I don't think it is wrong at all to form an opinion. She had six children under 8 with one who is autistic. SHe is unmarried and through some kind of artificial means, got pregnant with 8 more. I find that extremely irresponsible. My newspaper had a longer interview with her mother where her mother said that her daughter has an obsession and while a counselor advised the mother to throw the daughter and children out so she can learn responisiblity, she didn't take that advice. Now there are 8 more mouths to feed. Mentally ill people have rights but the babies have rights too. If any doctor assisted her in this crazy scheme, I think his judgement should be questioned.

[Crissy]

Edited: It's going nowhere. I'll let it go.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Crissy

[Colleen]

Edited: It's going nowhere. I'll let it go.

 

Crissy, I believe you did a fine job of addressing the circumstances without lambasting the individual. You made clear that you don't own the facts to the case. You emphasized that you were merely sharing your opinion on the circumstances. To that end, I agree wholeheartedly with this comment you made previously:

 

If one cannot support a large number of children it is my opinion that they should find a way to make peace with the fact and probably not have eight more. Barring that, they should find a way to support such a large family before it becomes a reality.

[TwinMominTX]

I am Pro-Life, too (and anti-death penalty in case anyone is wondering) and my answer to this:

 

She/doctors/we/humans shouldn't be making embryos in a lab.

 

This is ridiculous. IVF (and embroys made in a lab) is the only way we would have children. You have likely never faced the pain and sadness of infertility.

[asta]

This is ridiculous. IVF (and embroys made in a lab) is the only way we would have children. You have likely never faced the pain and sadness of infertility.

 

No. Some people do face it. Babies are a gift, not a right. Not everyone is given the same gifts in this life / this world.

 

Perhaps if more people looked at children as gifts (vs desire, need, right), humanity would not be facing the problems that it is.

 

JMO

 

 

asta

[sunshine]

No. Some people do face it. Babies are a gift, not a right. Not everyone is given the same gifts in this life / this world.

 

Perhaps if more people looked at children as gifts (vs desire, need, right), humanity would not be facing the problems that it is.

 

JMO

 

asta

 

I believe most of the people who go through the trauma of fertility treatments do realize that children are a gift. Another gift to women is the biological desire to have children. It is not only a mind desire it is a heart and body and soul desire. I have friends who say they would like to have children but they are okay with not having them. and then the ones like me who are overwhelmed with sadness each month, a heartache with every cycle. If you do not feel that then no you don't understand. Only someone with that unasked for grief truly understands. Its like migraines, people who have headaches can sympathize but others who have migraines understand that it can get to a point where you are truly considering suicide to end the pain. Unless you have it you don't really understand the depth of the pain. And I understand that you and some others don't and that's okay. I don't need to rationalize fertility to anyone but myself, my dh, my dc and most importantly my Lord.

[Karen sn]

No, you're not dictating lifestyle. You're calling her irresponsible with nothing more that he-said-she-said 'facts' to back it up. You're questioning her decisions without knowing anything that led up to them.

 

It seriously bothers me that people would question/tear down/disparrage someone with absolutely no knowledge of this person. For all anyone knows the reporters chose a random neighborhood and started bugging some insane cat lady for comments.

 

 

How much more do we need to know?

Does anyone here REALLY think she did this au natural?

 

I suppose we could find out that she has millions in the bank and top notch chefs, maids, and nannies to assist her in this endeavor and insure that each child is fed and loved *and feels loved*. If so - I will eat crow. Otherwise I agree with Christy.

[TwinMominTX]

No. Some people do face it. Babies are a gift, not a right. Not everyone is given the same gifts in this life / this world.

 

Perhaps if more people looked at children as gifts (vs desire, need, right), humanity would not be facing the problems that it is.

 

JMO

 

 

asta

 

 

Well I faced the pain and agony of infertility for many many years. Have you? Our infertility was the result of cancer. Are you saying that because my husband had cancer we shouldn't be gifted with children?

 

I see my twins as the wonerful God-given blessings that they are. I've never forgotten and never will forget that my children are gifts. To suggest otherwise is crazy.

 

Infertility is agonizing.

[mommaduck]

Well I faced the pain and agony of infertility for many many years. Have you? Our infertility was the result of cancer. Are you saying that because my husband had cancer we shouldn't be gifted with children?

 

I see my twins as the wonerful God-given blessings that they are. I've never forgotten and never will forget that my children are gifts. To suggest otherwise is crazy.

 

Infertility is agonizing.

 

There are those that have experienced infertility AND are against IVF.

 

Also, NO ONE is saying that children conceived through IVF aren't blessings. They are...every single one of them.

[Murphy101]

This is ridiculous. IVF (and embroys made in a lab) is the only way we would have children. You have likely never faced the pain and sadness of infertility.

 

pain and sadness does not make anything right or wrong.

it just makes it painful and sad.

As some others have said, I too believe that making embryos in a lab is wrong.

That doesn't mean I can't comprehend why people do it or understand that they love their babies resulting from IVF

It just means I don't think their reason to be enough to justify making embryos in a lab.

 

the ones like me who are overwhelmed with sadness each month, a heartache with every cycle. If you do not feel that then no you don't understand. Only someone with that unasked for grief truly understands.

 

grief is almost always unasked for.

who wants to go looking for it?

again, emotion alone does not make something right or wrong.

it just means we are feeling humans.

as such, I can feel sadness at your heartache and still not agree with IVF.

 

I understand that you and some others don't and that's okay. I don't need to rationalize fertility to anyone but myself, my dh, my dc and most importantly my Lord.

 

Agreed.

Although I obviously have my own beliefs on IVF, I don't walk up to people asking how and why their children were conceived and then blasting them if they say IVF.

 

And this woman out in California doesn't have to rationalize why or how she had any of her children either, imo. Neither do her drs. They presented the information, risks, and she being a grown person made her decision and they provided the neccessary care. So far, sounds like they did their job to me. As one of them said, it's not their job to decide family size. If the woman was willing to risk her health to have those children, then I suppose she should be allowed to make that choice for herself, not the doctors.

 

As for the woman's mother.

 

Frankly, all I can muster is two sentiments:

#1 She needs to get over her martyr act. If she doesn't want to assist or let them live there - then kick them out or shut up already.

#2 I'm glad she's not my mother. Seriously, the woman is rude and insulting even if what she says is true. What a hateful way to talk about ones own daughter. Even if it's true, why would a mother air such dirty comments to reporters?

[Aggie]

When we first moved to NY, in the late 90's, infertility treatments were covered by either the state or federal gov't for women on welfare. I'm guessing that hasn't changed, except to expand the roles.

[Rose in BC]

You have likely never faced the pain and sadness of infertility.

 

I have cried many tears over the loss of fertility in my dh and my life. In fact, in some ways I still have sadness over infertility. We don't believe in IVF.

 

I say this very carefully, knowing the pain associated with infertility and the desperation surrounding it. I know it. Believe you me. I am 43 yrs old, married 21 yrs, happily surrounded by three adopted children who are huge blessings, but I still understand the feeling of loss of control over this area of our lives we feel entitled to have control over.

 

I'm not picking a fight with anyone who's made different choices, just pointing out another view point.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Note to a couple board members.

 

I am ignoring all requests for information on how to get fertility meds online. I would really hate to be a party to that. Responsible parents see a doctor in order to get and continue a pregnancy. Doing so on your own is dangerous at best.

 

Seriously, please don't put me in this position. I could not live with myself if someone came on here and said they were pregnant with quintuplets because I gave them a way to get meds. And then if something happened to mom....and almost all large multiples include children with special needs....

 

Anyway, so I am ignoring all previous and future requests.

[Blessedfamily]

Note to a couple board members.

 

I am ignoring all requests for information on how to get fertility meds online. I would really hate to be a party to that. Responsible parents see a doctor in order to get and continue a pregnancy. Doing so on your own is dangerous at best.

 

Seriously, please don't put me in this position. I could not live with myself if someone came on here and said they were pregnant with quintuplets because I gave them a way to get meds. And then if something happened to mom....and almost all large multiples include children with special needs....

 

Anyway, so I am ignoring all previous and future requests.

 

I have seen them online too, and would never encourage this either.

 

These medications can have many side effects and risks when not administered properly.

 

There is a reason why you need to be under a doctor's supervision to use them.

[5kidsforME]

Note to a couple board members.

 

I am ignoring all requests for information on how to get fertility meds online. I would really hate to be a party to that. Responsible parents see a doctor in order to get and continue a pregnancy. Doing so on your own is dangerous at best.

 

Seriously, please don't put me in this position. I could not live with myself if someone came on here and said they were pregnant with quintuplets because I gave them a way to get meds. And then if something happened to mom....and almost all large multiples include children with special needs....

 

Anyway, so I am ignoring all previous and future requests.

 

Seriously?? All you have to do is say no. No need for dramatics.

 

 

FWIW- I am not interested infertility drugs, and I am not one of the people that must have contacted Pamela.

[KidsHappen]

 

As well any "proper" dr would limit the embryo's implanted to 304

:001_huh:

[mommaduck]

:001_huh:

I think they meant 3 or 4 :lol:

[SonshineLearner]

I was able to have 2 babies. I'm sorry for those who aren't.... I understand going to any length that is legal. If you can end a life, while it's inside you, then surely you should be able to start a life outside and have it introduced to your body.

While some end in miscarrying, that's not the intent. Just like it's not the intent when you naturally get pregnant. Even when couples continually have miscarriages, there's still the hope of life that continues until a live birth.

I get excited when couples want to have children, to have new life...and only sad when they end some of their babies lives...because they had too many inserted....

One of our very good friends had an iv baby. Very happy little girl...very happy mom and dad...

Carrie:-)

[asta]

Well I faced the pain and agony of infertility for many many years. Have you? Our infertility was the result of cancer. Are you saying that because my husband had cancer we shouldn't be gifted with children?

 

I see my twins as the wonerful God-given blessings that they are. I've never forgotten and never will forget that my children are gifts. To suggest otherwise is crazy.

 

Infertility is agonizing.

 

You don't know me. You don't know my circumstances. Throw your attitude at someone else.

 

 

asta

[Tracey in TX]

Note to a couple board members.

 

I am ignoring all requests for information on how to get fertility meds online. I would really hate to be a party to that. Responsible parents see a doctor in order to get and continue a pregnancy. Doing so on your own is dangerous at best.

 

Seriously, please don't put me in this position. I could not live with myself if someone came on here and said they were pregnant with quintuplets because I gave them a way to get meds. And then if something happened to mom....and almost all large multiples include children with special needs....

 

Anyway, so I am ignoring all previous and future requests.

 

Please SO NOT USE MEDS NOT RECOMMENDED BY YOUR PHYSICIAN!

A neighbor gave her leftover meds to her BFF. Girl got pregnant with triplets. She delivered at 26 wks. One baby died at 7 months old. The other two have cerebral palsy and are blind. It's not worth the risk!

Allow your OB/GYN or RE to monitor all fertility medications, please.

[swellmomma]

I think they meant 3 or 4 :lol:

 

yes I did. What a time for a typo hehe That's what I get for using my onscreen keyboard.

[swellmomma]

Note to a couple board members.

 

I am ignoring all requests for information on how to get fertility meds online. I would really hate to be a party to that. Responsible parents see a doctor in order to get and continue a pregnancy. Doing so on your own is dangerous at best.

 

Seriously, please don't put me in this position. I could not live with myself if someone came on here and said they were pregnant with quintuplets because I gave them a way to get meds. And then if something happened to mom....and almost all large multiples include children with special needs....

 

Anyway, so I am ignoring all previous and future requests.

People are asking you this. It doesn't matter if the med's are for fertility or antibiotics etc they should never be taken without a Dr's supervision. I understand wanting to boost your chances but the risks are so high please seek medical help don't self medicate.

[Danestress]

but don't believe in IVF. People's beliefs about bioethics don't just suddenly change when they have a challenge in their lives. I mean, surely some people change their beliefs to suit their circumstances, but you can search fertility boards and find a lot of people who are just in agony over infertility but who still don't believe in IVF. I'm surprised you don't already know that.

[Margaret in GA]

My .02:

 

I do think it's weird to have 6 kids at home and seek IVF (unlikely) or Clomid (likely) to conceive mulitples. It's obvious to more people than just her mother that she is perhaps mentally unstable. And here it says that she declared bankruptcy last year which proves they are not *financially* stable : http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/30/earlyshow/health/main4764432.shtml

 

The sad thing here is that the fame or money she was looking for... that is just not going to happen because of all the bad PR. No free formula. No diapers. No Oprah. And whatever you believe about her circumstances, she needs some serious help. It's just sad.

 

Margaret