Melissa in FL Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Just wondering if we are allowed to talk about the stimulus package. I'm not sure if you would consider it Politics or not. I remember that during the first Tarp vote we were allowed to discuss it. It was very helpful to me to hear other peoples view points were and a good source of finding out what was in it and how it would effect things. Can we discuss this or is it a no-no? Thanks Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanestMomInMidwest Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm not the moderator, but ...seriously? Seriously? You seriously think such a discussion won't spiral downward into a "my side" vs "your side" and snide, thinly veiled, sarcastic, remarks about liberalism vs conservatism or socialism vs capitalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I've been catching up on school and have missed the news. If you get a yes, I'd be interested in learning more about how it's shaping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in FL Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm not the moderator, but ...seriously? Seriously? You seriously think such a discussion won't spiral downward into a "my side" vs "your side" and snide, thinly veiled, sarcastic, remarks about liberalism vs conservatism or socialism vs capitalism? It really depends on those that participate doesn't it? I remember the TARP discussions being very calm and informative about both sides of the issue. I like to learn what others think about things even when I don't agree with them. Some of the things discussed that I did not agree with did get me to stop and think about why others did agree with them. It helps me refine my beliefs and thoughts by listening to others thoughts. So, yes I think we are all grown up enough to discuss this issue that will have a HUGE impact on all of us. Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm not the moderator, but ...seriously? Seriously? You seriously think such a discussion won't spiral downward into a "my side" vs "your side" and snide, thinly veiled, sarcastic, remarks about liberalism vs conservatism or socialism vs capitalism? Oooooooh, I LOVE those discussions! :w00t: <sigh> but I doubt it will happen here........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Is the stimulus package really "my side" versus "your side"? Both Bush and Obama are pretty strongly in favor of stimulus packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It really depends on those that participate doesn't it? I remember the TARP discussions being very calm and informative about both sides of the issue. Melissa That was my recollection as well. I know I was (not unusually) in a minority position in believing a strong stimulus package was necessary. But I don't remember any hostility being directed my way (or vice versa). It sure would be nice to be able to discuss world and national events with as diverse and intelligent a contingent as we have on this forum, with thoughtfulness and civility, even when positions vary. I will play by the rules what ever they turn out to be, but I miss the ability to have dialogue on pressing issues of our time. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 For those of us not in the know... where is a summary of the plan? What is going where? Maybe if we start by defining what we are talking about and allow each other to say if we think it will benefit or not... just maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Some of us may want to discuss the non-monetary part of the Stimulus...how about the part where everyone's medical records are openly placed in a database and required eugenics testing (future) is tossed into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in FL Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 That was my recollection as well. I know I was (not unusually) in a minority position in believing a strong stimulus package was necessary. But I don't remember any hostility being directed my way (or vice versa). It sure would be nice to be able to discuss world and national events with as diverse and intelligent a contingent as we have on this forum, with thoughtfulness and civility, even when positions vary. I will play by the rules what ever they turn out to be, but I miss the ability to have dialogue on pressing issues of our time. Bill Bill, You were the one I was thinking about! Even though you and I disagreed during discussion about candidates, we were on the same side about TARP! You helped me articulate why I was for it, but others helped me understand why not everyone agreed. Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I understand that President Obama said yesterday that he would pull the $200 million for contraception out of the package. I would love to see a summary of what is actually in the Stimulus Package at the moment. I'm guessing that the package is still in flux and that items are still being added and deleted. Anne, who hopes we can remain civil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html I read this article this morning. This whole "free lunch" mentality makes me sick. And it comes from BOTH sides of the aisle. My children's children will be paying for all of this. Edited January 28, 2009 by Jackie in NE messed up link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Some of us may want to discuss the non-monetary part of the Stimulus...how about the part where everyone's medical records are openly placed in a database and required eugenics testing (future) is tossed into it? I don't like the sound of that. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in FL Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 I understand that President Obama said yesterday that he would pull the $200 million for contraception out of the package. I would love to see a summary of what is actually in the Stimulus Package at the moment. I'm guessing that the package is still in flux and that items are still being added and deleted. Anne, who hopes we can remain civil It's being voted on in the house this afternoon. I called my Congresswoman and spoke to someone there, they didn't have an exact time that it would be voted on, but it will be today. I was up till 2am last night reading the text of the Stimulus. But I don't want to talk about it to much until we get the OK from the Mods here. Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBlueLobsters Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Some of us may want to discuss the non-monetary part of the Stimulus...how about the part where everyone's medical records are openly placed in a database and required eugenics testing (future) is tossed into it? Can I ask something here? I am not 100% sure what 'eugenics testing' means for sure? Could that possibly mean those of us who have had a disabled child would be urged to not have any more kids? How would that play out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I couldn't find a good, unbiased summary, but here are links to the bill(s): HR1 - being voted on today, 1/26/2009 S1 - the Senate version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Your link didn't work. Try mine: WSJ "A 40 Year Wish List" opinion piece http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I read this article from yesterday just now... "Today, just an hour before the Senate Finance Committee meets to consider the economic stimulus package, the Senate Judiciary Committee holds a hearing titled “Health IT: Protecting Americans’ Privacy in the Digital Age.” Health IT systems were included in the House of Representatives version of the stimulus and are likely to be a part of the Senate version. We applaud the Judiciary Committee for bringing this crucial topic up for discussion and calls on the Senate to adopt the privacy protections included in the House version of the package." So maybe they're working on the privacy issues?.. I certainly hope so. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Can I ask something here? I am not 100% sure what 'eugenics testing' means for sure? Could that possibly mean those of us who have had a disabled child would be urged to not have any more kids? How would that play out? It can start out innocently and then lead to other things. There is talk of family medical/criminal history, brain scans, genetic testing...and not just for disease, but also to determine if a child has (genetic) potential for becoming a criminal. :glare: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=87322 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Your link didn't work. Try mine: WSJ "A 40 Year Wish List" opinion piece http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I read this article from yesterday just now... "Today, just an hour before the Senate Finance Committee meets to consider the economic stimulus package, the Senate Judiciary Committee holds a hearing titled “Health IT: Protecting Americans’ Privacy in the Digital Age.†Health IT systems were included in the House of Representatives version of the stimulus and are likely to be a part of the Senate version. We applaud the Judiciary Committee for bringing this crucial topic up for discussion and calls on the Senate to adopt the privacy protections included in the House version of the package." So maybe they're working on the privacy issues?.. I certainly hope so. :glare: Even with so-called privacy protections, I wouldn't want any of this databased. What is sacred one day, won't be the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnetteB Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I wasn't around before the ban on politics, but I appreciate the fact that the WTM is a (mostly) friendly forum on home education. This topic could quickly heat up and spoil things....just like all the pork added to economic stimulus packages (I for one hate Pork spending no matter whom attaches it to a bill.) I'm ducking and running for cover..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Even with so-called privacy protections, I wouldn't want any of this databased. What is sacred one day, won't be the next. The more I read, I don't like it either. Enough of our information is already databased and used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Your link didn't work. Try mine: WSJ "A 40 Year Wish List" opinion piece http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html "$50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts" :blink: Reading the details hurts me physically. This plan is NOT about the American economy. If it were, less than half of what is in there would be included. I'm disgusted. Jo edit: Sorry, I'm jumping the gun on moderator approval. It was a reflex. :tongue_smilie: I am more than interested in hearing how others may feel the details in this altruistic sounding plan are going to actually help our economy- especially by creating jobs. Edited January 28, 2009 by battlemaiden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 "$50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts" :blink: Reading the details hurts me physically. This plan is NOT about the American economy. If it were, less than half of what is in there would be included. I'm disgusted. Jo Jo, I'm going to have to agree with you here. I just read the details and got an instant headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagsWife Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html I read this article this morning. This whole "free lunch" mentality makes me sick. And it comes from BOTH sides of the aisle. My children's children will be paying for all of this. nt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highereducation Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It can start out innocently and then lead to other things. There is talk of family medical/criminal history, brain scans, genetic testing...and not just for disease, but also to determine if a child has (genetic) potential for becoming a criminal. :glare: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=87322 I just read the article you posted and all I can say is - I'm speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think it is a my side verses your side at this point. The House Republicans are voting "no" on the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessedfamily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, the real question is whether any who don't like it have a snowball's chance on the equator of stopping it?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 4.? Billion goes to ....drum roll please......ACORN! Now there's a shocker. What do we call that? Payback? Bribery? Theft? This bill is nothing but a load of Pork and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the economy. It makes me sick to my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Boy, it is really tough to find a source that lays out in layman's terms (and in an easy-to-read format) what is included in the stimulus package. That, in and of itself, is a concern, IMO. But, I did find this comprehensive list of proposed funding related to public education (below). Again, this is just the public education piece of the pie. Education and Human Resources: $100 million $60 million for Robert Noyce Teacher Scholarship Program which encourages talented science, technology, engineering, and math majors and professionals to become K-12 math and science teachers. $40 million for Math and Science Partnerships which is a research and development effort that supports innovative partnerships to improve K-12 student achievement in math and science. After-School Feeding Program for At-Risk Children: $726 million $726 million to provide free dinners to at-risk children and to increase snack reimbursement rates. Child Care Development Block Grant: $2 billion $2 billion to supplement state general revenue funds for child care assistance for low-income families. These funds could be used to provide full-time child care services to an additional 11,600 children in California. Head Start/Early Head Start: $2.1 billion $1 billion for Head Start, a comprehensive education, health, and nutrition and social/emotional development services for low-income children. $1.1 billion to expand Early Head Start programs which provide services for low-income infants and toddlers. The U.S. Health and Human Services Department estimates that these funds will provide services to an additional 110,000 children annually, with an emphasis on early intervention services to infants and toddlers under Early Head Start. Title I Grants: $13 billion over two years $11 billion in additional funding for basic grants to local educational agencies (LEAs) eligible for Title I funds. The additional funding could be used to provide additional academic support to children from low income families who are failing or at risk of failing core subjects such reading, writing and math. LEAs could use the funding for after-school and summer programs to extend and reinforce the regular school curriculum. This funding could also be used to hire additional teachers or tutors to help those children who are most in need. $2 billion for school improvement grants. This funding could be used to further identify and address the needs of schools in program improvement, corrective action, and restructuring in order to improve student achievement. Impact Aid Construction: $100 million $100 million to support school construction in LEAs with high percentages of children living on Indian land or children with military parents. K-12 Repair and Modernization: $14 billion $14 billion can be used for health and safety repairs, facility modifications to provide access for disabled students, and educational technology, infrastructure upgrades, as well as projects to improve energy efficiency. Funding will be allocated to states based on their FY 2008 allocation under Title I of the Elementary and Secondary Act, after a 1 percent reservation of funds for outlying areas and Bureau of Indian Affairs schools. States must allocate funds using the same methodology within 30 days of receipt of the funds. There are provisions for redistributing the funding. Current language notes that this funding will be used to supplement, not supplant, state funding for school construction. Education Technology: $1 billion over two years $1 billion provided through the existing Education Technology program for technology hardware, software applications, professional development and related instructional technology staff and services. Statewide Data Systems: $250 million $250 million to design and develop data systems that analyze individual student data to find ways to improve student achievement. These funds may be available to start implementation of recommendations in the McKinsey report on how to improve and expand California's education data system. Up to $5 million may be used for state data coordinators and for awards to public or private organizations or agencies to improve data coordination. Education for Homeless Children and Youth: $66 million over two years $66 million provided through the existing program to provide services to homeless children including meals and transportation when high unemployment and home foreclosures have created an influx of homeless children. This funding could also be used to provide tutoring and other educational services to help homeless children reach state content and performance standards. This funding could be used to purchase school supplies to students at shelters, temporary housing facilities, and other locations as appropriate. Other uses could be for before- and after-school programs, mentoring, and summer programs for homeless children and youth. Credit Enhancement for Charter School Facilities: $25 million $25 million to assist charter schools obtain financing for infrastructure projects. Teacher Incentive Fund: $200 million $200 million in increased funding for existing competitive grants to school districts and states to develop and implement innovative strategies that provide financial incentives for teachers and principals who raise student achievement and close the achievement gap in high-need schools. Funding would enable school districts to develop and implement systems to attract and retain highly qualified teachers and principals, and to align their pay with student performance. Teacher Quality Enhancement, State Grants: $100 million $100 million increased funding for existing competitive grants to states for reforming teacher licensing and certification requirements, providing alternative methods of teacher preparation, and providing alternative routes to state certification. These funds are administered by higher education. IDEA, Part B State Grants: $13 billion over two years (based on existing formula) $13 billion to increase the federal share of special education costs and prevent these mandatory costs from forcing states to cut other areas of education . Additional funding will assist school districts with paying for the rising cost of special education for students with disabilities. Although the number of students enrolled in special education has remained steady over the last 5 years, the severity of disabilities has intensified, including autism, which requires a greater investment of resources to ensure an adequate education is provided. The additional funds will assist school districts from further reducing funding for general educational operations during the current state budget crisis. IDEA Infants and Families: $600 million over two years (based on existing formula) $600 million to help states serve children with disabilities age 2 and younger. These funds are administered by the Department of Developmental Services. State Fiscal Stabilization Fund: $79 billion over two years $79 billion to provide fiscal relief to states to prevent cutbacks in critical education and other high priority services. $25 million is reserved for the Secretary of Education for administration and oversight, including program evaluation. $15 billion is reserved for State Incentive Grants. The remaining funding (approximately $64 billion) is allocated by the federal Secretary of Education to the states, of which 61 percent is allocated based on school-aged population and 39 percent is allocated based on total population. States shall use at least 61 percent of the funds they receive to support elementary, secondary, and higher education. These funds must first be used by states to restore state aid to school districts under the primary state K-12 education funding formula and to institutions of higher education to FY 2008 levels, to the extent feasible given available funds. Any remaining funds shall be allocated to school districts based on the formula under Title I of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act. For each fiscal year, the Governor may use up to 39 percent of the funds for public safety and other government services, which may include assistance for elementary and secondary education and public institutions of higher education. To obtain funds, the governor of a state must submit an application including assurances pertaining to maintenance of effort of state support for education, achieving equity in teacher distribution and quality, establishing a longitudinal data system, and enhancing the quality of academic assessments for English language learners and students with disabilities. The maintenance of effort level is based on 2006 expenditures. Funds must be used for services authorized by ESEA, IDEA, and Perkins. $650 million (of the $15 billion reserved for State Incentive Grants) can be used for an Innovation Fund to support awards by the Secretary of Education to recognize states, local educational agencies, or schools that have made significant gains in closing achievement gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejily Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here's a pie chart, which is kinda hard to read and doesn't give a lot of specifics... just an overview: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBlueLobsters Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here's a pie chart, which is kinda hard to read and doesn't give a lot of specifics... just an overview: I am curious where the ??? pink part is going.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Deleted. Sorry. People can read and believe what they want. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have participated in this thread. My comments don't come across how I intend them and there's great misunderstanding all around. So I'm editing all my previous stuff and bowing out. I need to practice more restraint. Edited January 28, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry. I shouldn't have participated in this thread. My comments don't come across how I intend them and there's great misunderstanding all around. So I'm editing all my previous stuff and bowing out. I need to practice more restraint. Edited January 28, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, remember that it is World Net Daily where you read the article. Yeah, umm, what she said. :bigear: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I don't see where McCain comes into this...he's a non-player on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Deleted. Edited January 28, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But I guess the thread was sorta non-political while it lasted. Too bad. You don't bring me flowers ... any ... moooooorrrreeeeeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Here's a pie chart, which is kinda hard to read and doesn't give a lot of specifics... just an overview: Wait, what? Tax cuts? How'd that get in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highereducation Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, remember that it is World Net Daily where you read the article. If there is even a modicum of truth to it, it's disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 You don't bring me flowers ... any ... moooooorrrreeeeeee Hey! Come to think of it.... I haven't received flowers in over a decade! As for this thread..... It's making me want to break out the ol' "Yes, Minister" dvd's! :D -Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Oh, you can google it and find other articles on the same (not all Christian). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janna Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I will play by the rules what ever they turn out to be, but I miss the ability to have dialogue on pressing issues of our time. :iagree: I have been wanting to post this for a long time, esp. given all the pressing current events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apiphobic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) As for this thread..... It's making me want to break out the ol' "Yes, Minister" dvd's! :D -Robin Never heard of it and the first clip I found when I youtubed it was this one: Yes Prime Minister Fitting for this thread, I thought. (P.S. One swear word at the end, so no children around when viewing.) Edited January 28, 2009 by Apiphobic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, Senator McCain gave a speech for them praising them for their work. So, I dunno. Maybe it was simply money to further that part of what many from both sides of the aisle consider good work. :shrug: Yet...Whether you like ACORN's work or not, how are they related to economic stimulus that they should be receiving money under this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Never heard of it and the first clip I found when I youtubed it was this one: Yes Prime Minister Fitting for this thread, I thought. (P.S. One swear word at the end, so no children around when viewing.) OMG, you must, MUST get the entire season of Yes, Minister & Yes, Prime Minister from netflix or zip or whatever place you can. It's a bit off your system as it's Parliamentary of course (so it meshes in with Canadian politics wonderfully) but O.M.G. there's really nothing like it for a crash course on politicians and bureaucrats. It is side splittingly funny. My kids were reared on this stuff..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Never heard of it and the first clip I found when I youtubed it was this one: Yes Prime Minister Fitting for this thread, I thought. (P.S. One swear word at the end, so no children around when viewing.) That's the one. Yes, Prime Minister is the sequel to Yes, Minister. We have both. One of my favorite bits is the "Empty Hospital" clip, which can also be found on Youtube. -Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Never heard of it and the first clip I found when I youtubed it was this one: Yes Prime Minister Fitting for this thread, I thought. (P.S. One swear word at the end, so no children around when viewing.) THAT is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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