Blech. I just had to write the most 21st century 'Murican email

[Sneezyone]

17 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I think I'd buy my kid an apple watch if they couldn't keep a phone. 
 

Of course, I'm also the parent who sent a phone with my then 9 yr old to a "no devices" summer camp program, just in case.

This is exactly what we did. DH was 100% on board too, a rarity, as he usually thinks I'm overreacting or overprotective and likes to follow rules. Our district is simultaneously touting its state of the art tech and the classroom use of it while prohibiting the use of devices for safety and communication purposes. They made no mention of and haven't even acknowledged the safety consequences for students. Now, all a student needs to get excused from class/school is a call or note from??? There's no way to implement/insist on a safe word for schedule changes and pick up person modifications. There's no way to find or communicate with my kid in case of evacuation or lockdown. Nope. Not going for it. Uvalde was my turning point.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

9 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Those are on the list of "in backpack only".

I don't mind not sending a phone with my kid to camp most of the time.  At scout camp he's within the care of 3 adults who I know would not hesitate to contact me. The child bleeds like a fire hydrant and they are well aware of his issues. At youth camp, he was a stone's throw away from home.   At military camp.........well, we were glad we insisted. The area was flooded, roads washed out, no power or cell service. We were able to get a hold of ds before we politely insisted to the director that an email needed to be sent to families, now, on the status of the camp/kids.

DS wears sweats/basketball shorts most of the time.  His phone stayed in his pocket all last year and it wasn't an issue  with any of his teachers.  I could airtag him, but that's something the little kids do here, not high schoolers.

Those are on t he list for 'away for the day' here too. My response? Fight me or bite me. I don't care either way. Unless they can demonstrate that my son's device is distracting for him or other students, it will remain on his person.

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

Ok, I'll share the teacher perspective on this. Our school policy is also phones in your bag during class.  If you're worried about lockdowns, school shootings, our protocol (developed by some outside company so this is a widely-used protocol, not homemade) is that during a lockdown teachers shut the door which is always locked when shut, everyone gets out of sight of the window in the door, and yes, students can have their phone as long as it is silenced. They can send a message to parents. When evacuating they are to take their phone with them (but leave backpack, etc). And no school shooter has ever breached a locked door.

So here's the day-to-day challenge: many students are absolutely addicted to their phone. They can't have it on their body--they have been conditioned to check it every time they feel a notification happening. They play video games during class thinking no one sees if it's under their desk. They text during class. WITH THEIR MOM. This is a very real, daily problem that parents want communication with their child at any time during the day, and it's not appropriate during a high school math class. So yeah, we want the phone silenced and away from them during class. This is not every student, but it is a sizeable percentage of every class at every level and a way bigger problem post pandemic.

I'll be honest, from a parent perspective, I DON'T CARE. Schools lost the battle of closed doors and full control for educators when the nation decided armed maniacs indiscriminately shooting at people was an acceptable price to pay for freedom. If my kid is passing his exams with great grades and is able to discuss what he learned after school, I'm good.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Ali in OR]

8 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

A teachers perspective is going to be different than a parents.  While I can appreciate that a teacher is going to place the smooth functioning of a classroom pretty highly on her lists, safety and communication is going to trump that for me as a parent.  Managing cell phone use is really a classroom management issue.  The fact that some percentage of other kids need more parenting or whatever is not enough for me to give up the piece of mind that comes from my kid having his phone, especially after Uvalde.  I’ll deal with my kid if they abuse their phone, the rest is not my responsibility.   I know that makes me *the problem* for teachers, which is why my kids are home.  
Schools can’t have it both ways, enacting draconian policies on one hand in the name of safety but also restricting cell phones at the same time.  Either safety is the highest priority or it’s not.  Restricting cell phones make it all look a whole lot more like the highest priority is control.  

I am both a teacher and a parent. I have been through two lockdowns, one of those in the same high school where my daughter was in a math class downstairs while I was upstairs. That lockdown call was a mistake...the police were supposed to say lockout for the incident happening across the street and that is why they now use the word "secure" for a threat outside the school where all they need to do is lock the outside doors. But we didn't know that at the time and I went through all the emotions. But the phone in the pocket doesn't make a kid safer. And our protocols still allow kids to text in these situations anyway. I don't think the threat of school shootings is a good enough justification for why phones need to be out in class or on a student's body. Since coming back to the building after 18 months off, every single teacher, every administrator has huge issues with students who cannot leave the phone alone during class--it is not a lack of classroom management skills. It's all levels, all grades, all teachers (even amazing award-winning teachers). Phones in classrooms are not a positive thing. Students are not learning content. They are not building connections with people in person-their world is this device. There are more mental health issues than ever and I don't think the constant social media contact helps. We're trying to build healthier classroom communities where kids interact with each other and participate in real, in-person learning activities. I still believe there is more harm than good coming from kids having phones in their pockets or in their hands during class.

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

I am both a teacher and a parent. I have been through two lockdowns, one of those in the same high school where my daughter was in a math class downstairs while I was upstairs. That lockdown call was a mistake...the police were supposed to say lockout for the incident happening across the street and that is why they now use the word "secure" for a threat outside the school where all they need to do is lock the outside doors. But we didn't know that at the time and I went through all the emotions. But the phone in the pocket doesn't make a kid safer. And our protocols still allow kids to text in these situations anyway. I don't think the threat of school shootings is a good enough justification for why phones need to be out in class or on a student's body. Since coming back to the building after 18 months off, every single teacher, every administrator has huge issues with students who cannot leave the phone alone during class--it is not a lack of classroom management skills. It's all levels, all grades, all teachers (even amazing award-winning teachers). Phones in classrooms are not a positive thing. Students are not learning content. They are not building connections with people in person-their world is this device. There are more mental health issues than ever and I don't think the constant social media contact helps. We're trying to build healthier classroom communities where kids interact with each other and participate in real, in-person learning activities. I still believe there is more harm than good coming from kids having phones in their pockets or in their hands during class.

It doesn’t make kids safer per se but it DOES allow parents to hear from their kids when they’re in harms way. It does allow parents to ensure only approved people pick up their kids. Gun violence is the leading cause of death for kids in the USA. Any word, sound or attempt at communication from my child, in that moment, would be a comfort *to me*, something I would listen to again and again and again and again and no school will keep me from it. PERIODT.

If classroom distraction is an issue, address it in the classroom. Kids who abuse the privilege of having a personal device should be disciplined. These kids aren’t going to magically graduate and be less challenged by tech. TEACH THEM HOW to manage it from elementary on as a skill like any other. That’s what we did at home.

The idea that the school is issuing devices and touting digital learning while prohibiting comms that can provide comfort to parents in an emergency? No. Just no.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Ali in OR]

57 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 Any word, sound or attempt at communication from my child, in that moment, would be a comfort *to me*, something I would listen to again and again and again and again and no school will keep me from it.

But this is allowed. If we have a real emergency like this, phones may be used to send a text (no sound). That doesn't mean it needs to be in the hand or pocket while we are learning and interacting with each other. What I am taking from this thread is that moms need their kid to have a phone always on them to soothe their own anxiety. And that's a sign of our times. We've all been through a lot and our world does not feel safe. But if you actually spend a lot of time in classrooms you get a picture of the harm that that constant connection to the phone has. Some kids handle it fine but many can't.

Yes, our school issues chromebooks. No, students aren't allowed to have those out when they aren't part of my lesson plan either. We do use them when appropriate--graphing interesting functions on Desmos is so cool to those of us who grew up only graphing by hand.  But notes are taken on paper, problems in my class are done on paper or whiteboards, homework is turned in on paper. Kids thank me for that--Canvas can be a pain. Literally for me--way too much mouse clicking.

[Sneezyone]

25 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

But this is allowed. If we have a real emergency like this, phones may be used to send a text (no sound). That doesn't mean it needs to be in the hand or pocket while we are learning and interacting with each other. What I am taking from this thread is that moms need their kid to have a phone always on them to soothe their own anxiety. And that's a sign of our times. We've all been through a lot and our world does not feel safe. But if you actually spend a lot of time in classrooms you get a picture of the harm that that constant connection to the phone has. Some kids handle it fine but many can't.

Yes, our school issues chromebooks. No, students aren't allowed to have those out when they aren't part of my lesson plan either. We do use them when appropriate--graphing interesting functions on Desmos is so cool to those of us who grew up only graphing by hand.  But notes are taken on paper, problems in my class are done on paper or whiteboards, homework is turned in on paper. Kids thank me for that--Canvas can be a pain. Literally for me--way too much mouse clicking.

It's *NOT* allowed here. Apple watches are specifically prohibited to be on a child's person. Devices must be 'away for the day' and we are not alone. NOTE: My husband, a srsly macho dude who generally finds me hyperbolic, agrees. We had a whole convo before I went to the school board wherein he said to go forth and slay dragons. Many school districts are using pouches for personal comms devices that can only be unlocked at stations placed throughout the school, after school, as if congregating children in public spaces isn't a target? That's where ours seems headed. Fix the guns. Fix the counseling availability/accessibility. Fix the connection and engagement. I cannot and will not cosign limiting access to my child under these conditions.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 It does allow parents to ensure only approved people pick up their kids.

I don't get this. 

Can you explain?

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't get this. 

Can you explain?

When my kids were little, if someone other than their dad or I was picking them up we would either tell them in advance or confirm a change with a text message and requirement that the person picking them up employ our safety code. As teens, we text directly from our phones to theirs. If anyone can call the school and leave a message for the kid, the opportunity to add additional protection measures is significantly curtailed. Schools with 2000-3000 kids can't do what I can do with a text, nor will they welcome ferrying messages to classrooms for student populations of this size.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

When my kids were little, if someone other than their dad or I was picking them up we would either tell them in advance or confirm a change with a text message and requirement that the person picking them up employ our safety code.

But how would their phone being in their backpack prevent that?  I mean, an adult who wouldn't let the kid get the phone isn't going to just give up because the phone is in the pocket.  

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

But how would their phone being in their backpack prevent that?  I mean, an adult who wouldn't let the kid get the phone isn't going to just give up because the phone is in the pocket.  

They can check the phone in the hall or between classes IF they're allowed to have it. In our district, the kids are being told that their phone or personal comms device must be in a locker or not brought to school at all. It cannot be on their person or in a pocket. Our son gets 22 minutes for lunch. Less for passing to another class. There is no return to locker option. Also, seniors (both my kids turn 18 early in the year) have the option to leave early. The unlocking stations are time-limited.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

They can check the phone in the hall or between classes IF they're allowed to have it. In our district, the kids are being told that their phone or personal comms device must be in a locker or not brought to school at all. It cannot be on their person or in a pocket. Our son gets 22 minutes for lunch. Less for passing to another class. There is no return to locker option.

But is he going to get picked up by a stranger inside the school during that time.  

If someone came to the school during class to sign him out, he wouldn't be allowed to go to his locker?  

I can see both sides of the school shooting thing.  But this argument I don't get at all.  

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

But is he going to get picked up by a stranger inside the school during that time.  

If someone came to the school during class to sign him out, he wouldn't be allowed to go to his locker?  

I can see both sides of the school shooting thing.  But this argument I don't get at all.  

Sometimes, yes, for Dr. visits or b/c DH is traveling and I'm at work. That's also  not how it works at DSs school. People can come into the school and sign kids out with a note. No one verifies the signature. Furthermore...I WANT ACCESS TO MY KID IN CASE SHIT HAPPENS AT SCHOOL.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Sometimes, yes, for Dr. visits or b/c DH is traveling and I'm at work.

I'm not asking if he's getting picked up at school without knowing in advance.  I'm asking if, in the situation that he gets picked up early, they prevent him from going to his locker on the way out.  

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Drama Llama said:

I'm not asking if he's getting picked up at school without knowing in advance.  I'm asking if, in the situation that he gets picked up early, they prevent him from going to his locker on the way out.  

No.

 

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

No.

 

So then, after the office calls and says there is someone to pick him up, he stops at his locker, gets his phone and checks the text.   I'm missing how this leads to the possibility of him being kidnapped.  

[Sneezyone]

47 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

So then, after the office calls and says there is someone to pick him up, he stops at his locker, gets his phone and checks the text.   I'm missing how this leads to the possibility of him being kidnapped.  

Bless you. I feel like the bigger issue...I WANT ACCESS TO MY KID IF SHIT HAPPENS AT SCHOOL is being glossed over. The most recent (sad I have to add that qualifier) Walmart shooting occurred 15 minutes from my house! VB's massacre...30 minutes away. This is not ok with me and will never be. You do you. I am not comfortable being unable to check on my kids.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Murphy101]

6 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I'll be honest, from a parent perspective, I DON'T CARE. Schools lost the battle of .

I would say schools lost any right to battle at all about the kids’ smartphones when they started handing every kid a Chromebook and telling parents they don’t have the right to leave it at school so it doesn’t interfere with family life and plans.

[Drama Llama]

15 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Bless you. I feel like the bigger issue...I WANT ACCESS TO MY KID IF SHIT HAPPENS AT SCHOOL is being glossed over. The Walmart shooting occurred 15 minutes from my house! VB's massacre...30 minutes away. This is not ok with me and will never be. You do you. I am not comfortable being unable to check on my kids.

I asked a question about how you used a phone in this particular situation that you named to keep your kid safe.  I

Edited September 2, 2023 by Drama Llama

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

Seriously?   I didn't say anything about your child carrying or not carrying a phone at school.  As someone who has some real reasons to be concerned about someone picking up my kid without permission, I asked a clarifying question about how you were able to use a phone to prevent that outcome.  That has nothing to do with your ability to check on your kids.  

This entire thread is about the ability to check on your kids in case of an emergency at school b/c schools are adopting policies that limit parental ability to do that. I *REFUSE* to be standing on the sidewalk, or a mile away, waiting for someone to tell me if my kid is alive or dead.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I’m on a ScreenSmart Facebook group and the parents there spend so much time complaining because kids have phones in the classroom and they want nearly tech free schools(most of their kids do not have phones and feel left out from what I gather).  So it is definitely interesting to hear from the other perspective.

I was one parent in my daughter’s school who voted that I don’t want phones allowed in hands at all during the school day as did the vast majority of parents. My daughter’s school requires silenced in backpack or preferably locker, which is a policy voted on by parents. They can have it before the first bell rings and after the last bell rings and nothing in between; not hallways or lunch. I would prefer my young teens not have phones at all, but I also preferred they not use my phone to text their friends all the time, so we compromised on Bark phones.

Truthfully though, if a child has it silenced in their pocket and isn’t pulling it out, would anyone even know? they aren’t patting down kids looking for cell phones, I assume?

[Sneezyone]

45 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

Truthfully though, if a child has it silenced in their pocket and isn’t pulling it out, would anyone even know? they aren’t patting down kids looking for cell phones, I assume?

This is the dare. The vast majority of kids aren't abusing the privilege altho one notable kid (caucasian girl FWIW) in DS's H. English class last year ended up being physically assaulted by their (also caucasian) English teacher (who was fired) over unauthorized cell use. That's not my kids'/my problem. I suspect 80%+ of the teachers in DSs school will only invoke the policy if kids abuse their trust.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

I don't think the threat of school shootings is a good enough justification for why phones need to be out in class or on a student's body

I disagree and don't even have a kid in school. 

Schools don't get to dictate what is or is not on my kid's body. Full stop. 

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I would say schools lost any right to battle at all about the kids’ smartphones when they started handing every kid a Chromebook and telling parents they don’t have the right to leave it at school so it doesn’t interfere with family life and plans.

Bingo! They can't have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Bingo! They can't have their cake and eat it too.

 

If you're gonna issue it, and require its use, TEACH THEM HOW TO USE IT RESPONSIBLY!

Edited September 2, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Ali in OR]

1 hour ago, Shoeless said:

I disagree and don't even have a kid in school. 

Schools don't get to dictate what is or is not on my kid's body. Full stop. 

Do you see what happens in a classroom when 50% of students are in physical contact with their phones? They feel every notification and they can't resist looking to see what it is. Their brains have been conditioned by the app writers to need that fix. And they're not a 50-something mom (me) getting maybe 3 notifications a day. It's happening multiple times a minute. No learning can happen while they're constantly checking their phone. Volunteer in a classroom to see this in action. It's a very different world from 10 years ago, even 5 years ago.

And schools do get to set policy in their buildings--students can't wear gang-affiliated clothing, t-shirts that promote drug-use, etc.

[Shoeless]

8 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

Do you see what happens in a classroom when 50% of students are in physical contact with their phones? They feel every notification and they can't resist looking to see what it is. Their brains have been conditioned by the app writers to need that fix. And they're not a 50-something mom (me) getting maybe 3 notifications a day. It's happening multiple times a minute. No learning can happen while they're constantly checking their phone. Volunteer in a classroom to see this in action. It's a very different world from 10 years ago, even 5 years ago.

And schools do get to set policy in their buildings--students can't wear gang-affiliated clothing, t-shirts that promote drug-use, etc.

I agree that it is a different world than 5-10 years ago. But doubling down on draconian "classroom management" techniques is not working. Treating school like prison doesn't make kids more engaged. It doesn't make them want to be there. 

Why would I go volunteer at a school? The schools here have made it very clear that they don't actually want parents involved because they feel we make their jobs harder. 

What is the incentive to send a kid to school these days?  You can't keep them safe and they aren't learning. What's the point of sending them? 

[Ausmumof3]

In my state all kids in public schools are banned from having phones. I hadn’t even thought of that issue. 
 

eta a lot of kids seem to have spacetalk watches that parents can use to communicate with the kids but can’t be used like a normal phone. maybe that’s an option?

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ausmumof3

[Sneezyone]

FTR, gang affiliated clothing is prohibited bc it’s s safety risk and creates fights, promoting illegal drugs…ILLEGAL? Ok. Comm. devices aren’t illegal.

[HomeAgain]

7 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

Do you see what happens in a classroom when 50% of students are in physical contact with their phones? They feel every notification and they can't resist looking to see what it is. Their brains have been conditioned by the app writers to need that fix. And they're not a 50-something mom (me) getting maybe 3 notifications a day. It's happening multiple times a minute. No learning can happen while they're constantly checking their phone. Volunteer in a classroom to see this in action. It's a very different world from 10 years ago, even 5 years ago.

And schools do get to set policy in their buildings--students can't wear gang-affiliated clothing, t-shirts that promote drug-use, etc.

A teacher who has no understanding of how to teach students should not be in the classroom.

Do you honestly believe that if you pass the buck to the colleges that it's just not your problem?  That you are absolved from developing self-regulation skills in your students?  That your wishes trump their need for safety?  Oh, yes, I know what you will say: in an emergency they can have it.  In an emergency it is too late.

A teacher who does not teach, does not have compassion, does not engage her students, does not get to complain that they are not learning - and it's not the phones' fault.   It is a poor structure the teacher has put in place, a set of wobbly crutches that is propping her up and having the pretense that all is fine while in all honesty, it's a bunch of nonsense.

A phone is the same as a t-shirt that promotes drug use or gang affiliated clothing?  Please.  The logical hulahooping is not worthy of being inside a classroom, let alone the defense of it.

 

I NEED TO KNOW WHERE MY KID'S BODY IS.  I need to know if it has a chance of breathing, bleeding, or being part of crime scene evidence.  I need to have a chance to get his last words.

Stop teaching.  Just stop.  Do something that isn't working with kids.  Nobody needs your arrogance, because it will be the first thing to crumble when our kids are dead.

[Heartstrings]

10 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

But this is allowed. If we have a real emergency like this, phones may be used to send a text (no sound)

So your thought is we’ll just send kids out to their lockers to get their phones while there is a shooter actively roaming around?  See, dumb ideas like that are why I don’t trust teachers.  

Also, you realize that how your school dies things is not universal, right?  My local middle school doesn’t allow backpacks in classrooms.  So “in the backpack” doesn’t always mean at the child’s feet, it can mean in the hallway or locker.  And realistically how is “in the backpack” different than “in the pocket”? 

As to you saying the phones are just to ease parental anxiety, yeah, exactly.  But  don’t pretend that it’s just crazy helicopter parents when KIDS ARE DYING IN SCHOOLS every single day.  Asking parents to send CHILDREN into a war zone daily is going to cause a reasonable level of anxiety.  Parents of generations passed did not have that fear.  
 

Children having phones was a major deal in Uvalde. They only knew some kids were still ALIVE because a couple kids kept calling 911 from the classroom with an active shooter and DEAD and DYING classmates.  Parents in the community knew to go get their children out of the building because kids used cell phones, while police stood around and did nothing.
 

Some have posted here about wanting the location info so they could track their child’s DEAD BODY to the right hospital instead of waiting for DNA or identifying bodies based on sneakers. Read that again.  
 

Yeah, we want our kids to have their phones because it’s the teeeeny tiny bit we can control about our kids being fish in a barrel.   
 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

9 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

’m on a ScreenSmart Facebook group and the parents there spend so much time complaining because kids have phones in the classroom and they want nearly tech free schools(

See, I want both.  I managed to carry a cell phone AND do 95% of my learning with books and paper and I think that would be best for kids overall.  I don’t want my kids face in a chrome book, jumping from app to app, to slideshow, to website all day.  I want a teacher using a white board, with kids writing on paper and reading from a book.  With his cell phone in his pocket.   
 

I do see some good sides to the chrome books.  I really do, but overall I think they are over used and cause more issues.  

[Sneezyone]

39 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

See, I want both.  I managed to carry a cell phone AND do 95% of my learning with books and paper and I think that would be best for kids overall.  I don’t want my kids face in a chrome book, jumping from app to app, to slideshow, to website all day.  I want a teacher using a white board, with kids writing on paper and reading from a book.  With his cell phone in his pocket.   
 

I do see some good sides to the chrome books.  I really do, but overall I think they are over used and cause more issues.  

Same.

[Shelydon]

This past year I was a guest speaker in a local highly ranked public school district.  Large schools, roughly 4000 students.  I spoke at several high schools over the course of the year.  The school policy is phones in pockets on silent.  I watched how teachers spent 75% of their teaching time telling kids to put away their phones (over and over and over) at the beginning of the year.  By March, they had given up and all of the kids had phones out the entire class.  Parents in the district refuse to let the school adopt a policy of phones in backpacks.  It's not a classroom management problem, it is a screen addiction problem.

[Ali in OR]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

A teacher who has no understanding of how to teach students should not be in the classroom.

Do you honestly believe that if you pass the buck to the colleges that it's just not your problem?  That you are absolved from developing self-regulation skills in your students?  That your wishes trump their need for safety?  Oh, yes, I know what you will say: in an emergency they can have it.  In an emergency it is too late.

A teacher who does not teach, does not have compassion, does not engage her students, does not get to complain that they are not learning - and it's not the phones' fault.   It is a poor structure the teacher has put in place, a set of wobbly crutches that is propping her up and having the pretense that all is fine while in all honesty, it's a bunch of nonsense.

A phone is the same as a t-shirt that promotes drug use or gang affiliated clothing?  Please.  The logical hulahooping is not worthy of being inside a classroom, let alone the defense of it.

 

I NEED TO KNOW WHERE MY KID'S BODY IS.  I need to know if it has a chance of breathing, bleeding, or being part of crime scene evidence.  I need to have a chance to get his last words.

Stop teaching.  Just stop.  Do something that isn't working with kids.  Nobody needs your arrogance, because it will be the first thing to crumble when our kids are dead.

Ahh, you're so sweet.

This isn't just me. This is 100% of every teacher in a very caring, compassionate environment. Why is this coming up in every school in the nation? It's not because "teachers have no classroom management." Phones are destroying learning environments and kids are addicted to them. 

This is not teachers who have no classroom management skills. These are not teachers with boring lectures. This is a new problem in an era with new technology that is completely re-wiring kids' brains. And we are managing the classroom and doing what is best for developing brains when we say "put the phone away. In your bag, off your body." It's in their backpack right by them. It can be out again in 2 seconds if there is an emergency. I have no experience in schools run like prisons. That is not how we do things. My kids' bodies are alive and well in my classroom and if you search where their phone is it is one foot away in their backpack. The phone does not need to be in their hands or on their body while I'm teaching. While they're interacting with the people physically by them. Your mental picture of what a school is like is just wrong if you think we're in a war zone prison. We are building caring, compassionate environments where we can discuss ideas. We're building humans ready to interact in the world in a healthy way. Get off your phone. Be here. Be present.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Ali in OR

[Ali in OR]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

So your thought is we’ll just send kids out to their lockers to get their phones while there is a shooter actively roaming around?  See, dumb ideas like that are why I don’t trust teachers.  

Also, you realize that how your school dies things is not universal, right?  My local middle school doesn’t allow backpacks in classrooms.  So “in the backpack” doesn’t always mean at the child’s feet, it can mean in the hallway or locker.  And realistically how is “in the backpack” different than “in the pocket”? 
 
 

We drill lockdowns. We all get up and move. I close our door that automatically locks. Lights off. Everyone has to move to get out of view of the window. Everyone will grab their phone first. I can't speak to situations where backpacks aren't in the room--that's not our situation. But I can very much speak to phone in the pocket is very different from phone in the backpack. The phones vibrate when a notification comes in. The kids very purposely want their phone on their body so they can check every vibration. They are wired to it, conditioned to this behavior. If the phone is in the backpack (right by them on the floor) they don't see it, they don't feel it, and they can be present to the real people around them.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

Your mental picture of what a school is like is just wrong if you think we're in a war zone prison. We are building caring, compassionate environments

That can change in an instant.  Every school, every classroom is one second from being a learning environment to being a bloody crime scene.  We can't pretend that that isn't true, it helps no one. We really have to accept this reality and move forward from there. 

[ScoutTN]

11 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

But this is allowed. If we have a real emergency like this, phones may be used to send a text (no sound). That doesn't mean it needs to be in the hand or pocket while we are learning and interacting with each other. What I am taking from this thread is that moms need their kid to have a phone always on them to soothe their own anxiety. And that's a sign of our times. We've all been through a lot and our world does not feel safe. But if you actually spend a lot of time in classrooms you get a picture of the harm that that constant connection to the phone has. Some kids handle it fine but many can't.

Yes, our school issues chromebooks. No, students aren't allowed to have those out when they aren't part of my lesson plan either. We do use them when appropriate--graphing interesting functions on Desmos is so cool to those of us who grew up only graphing by hand.  But notes are taken on paper, problems in my class are done on paper or whiteboards, homework is turned in on paper. Kids thank me for that--Canvas can be a pain. Literally for me--way too much mouse clicking.

But as was said upthread, if the phone is in a backpack or locker,  even just on the other side of a classroom, kids may not have any opportunity to get it. They have seconds to react, not minutes. 

[Heartstrings]

Drilling a lockdown is not the same being in an active shooter situation.  Your drills assume the shooter is across the school, that you have time to close the door and move across the classroom to hide.  That misses the reality that shooters have to START somewhere.  The first classroom doesn't have that chance.  If if happens at passing periods, or lunch or dismissal, there is no opportunity to lock the door and hide in the corner, letting all the kids grab their phones on the way.  Those drills are a)security theater and b) only helpful for the kids in the classrooms that aren't hit first.

The kids in that classroom in Uvalde did not have time to scoop a phone out of their backpack, even if if was right next to them.  They saw a gun at the door and scrambled under tables, if they had that chance.  A cell phone in a bag 10 feet away may as well have been on the moon.   The ones who were calling 911 had their phones on their person.  

Edited September 2, 2023 by Heartstrings

[ScoutTN]

My Ds16 definitely has screen addiction and gaming issues and is in public school. They have a no phone use during school hours rule and he complies. They all do. School culture can be cultivated around this, but I agree that parent support is necessary for it to work. I assist by limiting his phone to emergency contacts only. It won’t do anything except text or call me, Dh, Dd, a few bonus-moms, and 911. It does not vibrate. He usually has it in a pocket. 

[Heartstrings]

Just now, ScoutTN said:

My Ds16 definitely has screen addiction and gaming issues and is in public school. They have a no phone use during school hours rule and he complies. They all do. School culture can be cultivated around this, but I agree that parent support is necessary for it to work. I assist by limiting his phone to emergency contacts only. It won’t do anything except text or call me, Dh, Dd, a few bonus-moms, and 911. It does not vibrate. He usually has it in a pocket. 

This is a much better way to go about it than just banning them. 

[Dmmetler]

I have a charging station available in my classes for kids who want to use it, and a lot of them do. Realistically, mine is often charging, too-and a dead phone doesn't help anyone much. That also provides a way for me to say "hey, kidX, you're checking your phone a lot. Why don't you charge it for a bit so it's ready after class.". Last year I had one for whom it was an issue,but the rest were OK. I have several kids who have apple watches or some other form of watch that works as a phone to call parents. 

 

I prefer books and physical materials for teaching, but when it costs $5/copy to put a choral octavo in their hands, or $10/kid to get access to the entire Hal Leonard vocal library, my budget goes a lot farther if I have the kids bring a device and we go digital, even after buying a few Kindle fires for kids who need to use one of mine. So far, it hasn't been a problem,but it would definitely feel hypocritical to ask kids to bring their iPad, but no, phones are awful. 
 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dmmetler

[Ali in OR]

58 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

But as was said upthread, if the phone is in a backpack or locker,  even just on the other side of a classroom, kids may not have any opportunity to get it. They have seconds to react, not minutes. 

This makes me smile in a friendly kind of way, because I think every one of my kids can have their phone in their hands in a second or two. This is what they do, what they live for! I get what you're saying, I just picture my classroom where the bag is right by them and they are very, very good at getting to their phone. It is their instinct...they won't be moving without it.

[Idalou]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

Drilling a lockdown is not the same being in an active shooter situation.  Your drills assume the shooter is across the school, that you have time to close the door and move across the classroom to hide.  That misses the reality that shooters have to START somewhere.  The first classroom doesn't have that chance.  If if happens at passing periods, or lunch or dismissal, there is no opportunity to lock the door and hide in the corner, letting all the kids grab their phones on the way.  Those drills are a)security theater and b) only helpful for the kids in the classrooms that aren't hit first.

The kids in that classroom in Uvalde did not have time to scoop a phone out of their backpack, even if if was right next to them.  They saw a gun at the door and scrambled under tables, if they had that chance.  A cell phone in a bag 10 feet away may as well have been on the moon.   The ones who were calling 911 had their phones on their person.  

 Little Miah did not have a cell phone on her. Her teacher got a text saying there was a shooter just as the killer approached her and shot through the door, leaving no time for the others to do ANYTHING but hide under a damn table for nearly an hour. Miah saw her friend's body ripped to pieces, covered herself in the child's blood, then crawled over to her teacher's body and took the phone. How lucky she was not to have been seen crawling across the room.

To hell with keeping phones locked away in bags or drawers or lockers. Teach them how to regulate phone use, stress the importance to parents, and have school wide discipline regs for those who use them during class, no matter if it's little Tommy Trouble playing phone games or the most popular football player or the future Valedictorian answering texts. 

People keep mentioning comfort to a parent in such a tragedy. What about the need of a child to tell their parents they love them and are scared. I've read many stories of kids calling during lockdowns just to say goodbye. It reminds me of stories about how loud the Civil War fields were after a battle with agonizing cries of men calling out for their mothers. 

I'm happy there may be schools where kids phones may be kept on a bag by their feet, 2 seconds away.  But please quit acting like it's this way all over, remember that not all school shootings happen in classrooms, that school shooters are often students who know if phones are restricted or not, and that all school doors are locked. For example, in Houston's huge school district, all classroom doors are now mandated to remain open, supposedly so the principal and admin can stealthily pass by to make sure the teachers are following the new ed mandates.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Idalou

[Murphy101]

14 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

If you're gonna issue it, and require its use, TEACH THEM HOW TO USE IT RESPONSIBLY!

But… schools have always sucked at anything that requires more than information.

To me this is ridiculous. The parents have to teach responsible use and be willing to back up the expectation with consequences if they don’t follow that use.

Not you but also I kinda am insulted by the this is not some 50+ year old with a few notifications.  I don’t know any 50+ year old like that. Partly because of all the damned notifications the schools send about their kids.  Schools are the worst about sending a bazillion emails and texts and automated phone calls.  Daily. For each kid.  I half-joke that seeing what all I get just for our out sourced programs is a major reason I won’t send my kids to schools.  I delete/spam/mute all of it bc it’s Just. Too. Much.

But the actual student can’t do that without getting in trouble by teachers or grades. The schools are actively training these kids to have the worst ADHD in history.  And parents need to start being willing to pay consequences for pushing back against that insanity for the mental health of their kids.

As for being scared of a shooting.

I don’t know about anyone else, but bad news has never once failed to find me in my life, cellphone or no cellphone.  I’m not worried I won’t know if something like that happens.

I’m more worried about molested or suicidal students than that. That’s the stuff no one ever knows until it’s too late. 

 

[rebcoola]

Your saying its a problem in every class and school in the country but its really not.   My kids school just has a no phone out during class policy.  If you get caught with your phone its locked up for the day in the office.  They have never had more than 5 phones at the end of the day.   

Whoever parents / schools can teach them to use Do not disturb mode my kids set theirs for for school hours. I text them if I need them to know something and school ends and they get the message. If there were an emergency I just have to dial twice to bypass and get to my kids.

[ScoutTN]

3 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

This makes me smile in a friendly kind of way, because I think every one of my kids can have their phone in their hands in a second or two. This is what they do, what they live for! I get what you're saying, I just picture my classroom where the bag is right by them and they are very, very good at getting to their phone. It is their instinct...they won't be moving without it.

But this is not always the case. Backpacks are sometimes on a hook along a wall or other places, especially for kids in younger grades or in private school. 

[KSera]

11 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

Your mental picture of what a school is like is just wrong if you think we're in a war zone prison.

 

11 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

We drill lockdowns. We all get up and move. I close our door that automatically locks. Lights off. Everyone has to move to get out of view of the window.

The juxtaposition of these two posts next to eachother really struck me. It’s awful what this generation is being subjected to 😢.

 

11 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I assist by limiting his phone to emergency contacts only. It won’t do anything except text or call me, Dh, Dd, a few bonus-moms, and 911. It does not vibrate. He usually has it in a pocket. 

This. Parents can put boundaries on what a phone can do. The phone shouldn’t be buzzing in the kid’s pocket all day. 

10 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

This makes me smile in a friendly kind of way, because I think every one of my kids can have their phone in their hands in a second or two. This is what they do, what they live for! I get what you're saying, I just picture my classroom where the bag is right by them and they are very, very good at getting to their phone. It is their instinct...they won't be moving without it.

I’m still stuck on any part of imagining the situation of how kids would react in the face of an actual shooter firing bullets in their school causing someone to smile. I know it’s not the shooting you’re smiling about—obviously—but the fact this whole thing is so casual anyone could smile about any aspect of it. Beyond that, the idea that you think that when actual friends are being torn apart by guns, the kids are “living for” getting to their phones as their first instinct, before trying to duck away from bullets being fired in rapid succession just doesn’t make sense to me. It makes me think teachers who are doing these drills all the time have lost sight of why they have to do the drill in the first place and that the reality would be nothing like the drill. 

6 hours ago, rebcoola said:

Whoever parents / schools can teach them to use Do not disturb mode my kids set theirs for for school hours. I text them if I need them to know something and school ends and they get the message. If there were an emergency I just have to dial twice to bypass and get to my kids.

Yes, exactly this. This absolutely can be managed, but it does take parents doing their part. 

[Heartstrings]

10 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

This makes me smile in a friendly kind of way, because I think every one of my kids can have their phone in their hands in a second or two. This is what they do, what they live for! I get what you're saying, I just picture my classroom where the bag is right by them and they are very, very good at getting to their phone. It is their instinct...they won't be moving without it.

This arrogance is also why I tend not to care for teachers.  

[Murphy101]

18 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

The juxtaposition of these two posts next to eachother really struck me. It’s awful what this generation is being subjected to 😢.

 

This. Parents can put boundaries on what a phone can do. The phone shouldn’t be buzzing in the kid’s pocket all day. 

I’m still stuck on any part of imagining the situation of how kids would react in the face of an actual shooter firing bullets in their school causing someone to smile. I know it’s not the shooting you’re smiling about—obviously—but the fact this whole thing is so casual anyone could smile about any aspect of it. Beyond that, the idea that you think that when actual friends are being torn apart by guns, the kids are “living for” getting to their phones as their first instinct, before trying to duck away from bullets being fired in rapid succession just doesn’t make sense to me. It makes me think teachers who are doing these drills all the time have lost sight of why they have to do the drill in the first place and that the reality would be nothing like the drill. 

And this is exactly why people compare schools to prison environments and why so many schools are called a prison pipeline for a reason.

People in prisons, both the inmate and the prison staff, convince themselves many things inside the facility are really not that bad and smile or joke over people on the outside saying how messed up it is too. And convince themselves things have to be that way to do their jobs. They are wrong.  I can understand that their daily mental health survival depends on convincing themselves these things are more okay than any of it actually is while also refusing to accept it as truth or an acceptable new normal. It shouldn’t be this way. It’s not healthy or safer for anyone.