Please help me accept that I can’t do ALL the curriculum/things

[Mommalongadingdong]

This is going to sound bizarre, but I really need some guidance/comfort/advice from other homeschoolers because I know no one to go to about this.

I’m homeschooling my 4th grader for the first time this year.  It will likely be only this year, as she wants to try it/dislikes her school more than I am philosophically minded to homeschool.

I have overbooked our day with way too many writing options, notebooking/extras for THREE history curriculums, picked out over 20+ read alouds for LA/history, and am just overwhelmed with ALL the stuff. I know, the answer is to cut stuff out, BUT I want to make sure she is hitting grade standards and I don’t miss anything. I want to do book reports/analysis of every book she reads (unreasonable), I want her to practice writing all the types of essays in addition to her IEW and TGATB (unreasonable), I want to do CM style notebooking for SOTW2 and BF CA history along with writings/activities (unreasonable?). I don’t even subscribe to the CM philosophy, but the aesthetics just *are*. 
I spend more time finding the perfect mix of stuff than actually doing it (not really, but kind of). 

I’m just so worried I’m missing something, and I know, it’s only grade 4, she’ll relearn it all just about every year. Swiss cheese and all that. But my head and my anxiety are clashing and I could use some advice or maybe permission to cut some things? 

Here is what we have:

Singapore Dimensions 4

TGATB LA 4

IEW SS1A

Fix It Grammar

Sequential Spelling

Word Roots

BF CA History

SOTW2

Studies Weekly Science 

Studies Weekly CA History

20+ Medieval Read Alouds 

20+ Readers (mostly NF that go along with what we are reading)

A huge assortment of random writing guides for different essays, topics, writings, etc. ( I feel like I have to do ALL of these)

Lit guides for all those readers (again… I feel compelled to do these….)

Literary devices supplements

6 different logic books

ALL the supplements, supplemental books, graphic organizers, activity guides, worksheets, vocabulary for ALL the curriculum above… all the video link and encyclopedias referenced.

It’s SO much, and at the same time I don’t know what I can do vs not do to make it all well rounded.

 

Please, please help me accept that I don’t have to do all the activities for everything.

 

 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

School standards are SO much lower than you think.

Focus on skills, which can only be learned as fast as they can be learned and enjoy whatever content a) the state says you must cover and b) you both feel like covering, along the way. Grade four is not a make or break year.

Not everything has to be written. It's fine and it's good to just talk about stuff. Conversation develops thinking skills too.

[Lori D.]

Welcome to homeschooling 4th grade!
And, good job on doing lots of research.
And, esp. good job on realizing IN ADVANCE that this is way too much. 😉 

So, how to cut back?

First, let's figure out what is reasonable for a 4th gradestudent without learning issues, who reads, writes, and does math at grade level. Time-wise, plan on 3-4 hours per day of "formal" sit-down academics per day. That's it.

Realize that trying to do too many subject areas each day is less effective for learning than streamlining and flowing your schedule with what works well for how THIS student learns.

Some books and some other activities can go in a basket for free-choice supplements.

Based on all of your resources, my opinion would be this:

4-5x week:
Math - Singapore
LA - Reading -- choose ONE
LA - Writing -- choose ONE
LA - Spelling - Sequential Spelling

2-3x week:
LA Grammar - choose ONE

2x week, rotate:
- History / Science
so, 2 days do History, 2 days do Science, 5th day of week do fun supplements for either -- your Studies Weekly might be part of that, 5th day, along with any fun video and activity supplements

1x week, rotate:
- Vocabulary -- Word Roots, or TG&TB vocabulary
- Logic -- choose 1 of the 6 logic books and work through it at an enjoyable pace; save the rest for the future
- Music
- Art
[I would assume 1 day a week you are getting out for field trips, nature walks, meeting with other homeschoolers, etc.]


Choose ONE:
TGATB LA 4 -- which says it covers writing, spelling, reading, grammar, vocabulary, geography, art appreciation
--OR--
Writing (IEW OR  writing guides); Readers & Read-Alouds; Fix-It; Word Roots

Optional way of doing 2 histories: do  units
Example: do a chunk of SOTW2, like for 6-8  weeks, and then do 2 weeks of BF CA History; rinse, repeat.

No -- put these away -- overkill (if you desperately want to do a few of these, then set aside what you chose as your "spine" writing (either TG&TB or IEW) and do one of these from time to time as a short break/unit study)
- A huge assortment of random writing guides for different essays, topics, writings, etc. ( I feel like I have to do ALL of these)

No -- put these away -- not appropriate for 4th grade; wait until the gr. 6-8 range:
- Lit guides for all those readers
- Literary devices supplements
 

No -- please don't kill your child's budding interest in learning 😉 
- ALL the supplements, supplemental books, graphic organizers, activity guides, worksheets, vocabulary for ALL the curriculum above… all the video link and encyclopedias referenced.

Supplemental books -- put in a book basket for FREE CHOICE reading (which means if she doesn't choose to read anything in the free choice basket, it is FINE -- because it's FREE CHOICE)

Graphic organizers -- use one very occasionally, but ONLY if it is really helpful; most are pointless busywork.

Worksheets -- IMO, unless a kid LOVES worksheets and really learns from worksheets -- dump as many as possible

Vocabulary --  just learn in context, by providing definitions as you read; no need to have busywork to fill out


Good luck, and remember to ENJOY your journey! This is a lovely age for encouraging a real joy of discovery and learning in children, so be careful not to crush that with traditional school-y things. 😉 Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

ETA -- PS:

On 8/23/2023 at 7:31 PM, Mommalongadingdong said:

I have overbooked our day with way too many writing options, notebooking/extras for THREE history curriculums, picked out over 20+ read alouds for LA/history, and am just overwhelmed with ALL the stuff... I want to do book reports/analysis of every book she reads (unreasonable), I want her to practice writing all the types of essays in addition to her IEW and TGATB (unreasonable), I want to do CM style notebooking for SOTW2 and BF CA history along with writings/activities (unreasonable?)...

re: read alouds
Star your top FIVE books you'd like to do as read-alouds for the year. If you get to more on your list, great. If not, it's still great because you achieved a reasonable goal.

re: notebooking
Only do notebooking if it fits your child's style -- that would have KILLED any interest in learning in both of my DSs, so YMMV.

re: volume of writing
Like Rosie said above, lots of learning and synthesis happens with just reading and talking, rather than writing about every.single.thing...

re: analyze every book, practice writing all the types of essays
Analysis of books, and essay writing, are not developmentally appropriate for 4th grade. Those are middle/high school skills, because they require abstract thinking/logic portions of the brain to have developed (which doesn't happen until along around age 13 on average).

 

Again, let your kid be a 4th grader and have success and ENJOY 4th grade -- don't try and make her do 8th grade work, or 3x the work. I know it all looks cool, but set the bulk of it aside, and just do a little each day until you have a good routine and you can actually see what REALLY WORKS. for you and for DD for amount of school that brings forth fruit without overkill. 😉 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

Oh my.  Reading your list overwhelms me and fills me with anxiety, and I have been homeschooling for 29 yrs!  

You are beating yourself up and stressing about all the wrong things.  Learning does not come from a stack of books and doing hrs and hrs of writing and book work, especially in 4th grade.  The pile it on approach is exactly what ps's do and what has happened to the quality of education in this country other than produce poorly educated students.  Doing less better will absolutely provide a higher quality education.  

FWIW, my rule of thumb for an estimated amt of time on school is about an hr per grade level until middle school/high school (then it is approx 6-8/7-9 hrs/day.)  So, for 4th grade, all academic work should be able to be completed in around 4 hrs--about 45 mins each for math, science, history, and reading (and some of that time might be watching a documentary, sketching a picture, creating a timeline/sequence of events/or brief summary.)  That leaves about an hr for spelling, grammar, and writing.  Some days things might be faster in some subjects and slower in others, but that is a simple generalization.

With my kids, we don't spend time doing a formal logic book, especially in 4th grade.  We do spend a lot of time playing strategy games.  I have found that when kids can focus and think through multiple step scenarios and understand their different options/outcomes and then form a mental plan, it really helps develop their logical thinking.  Games like chess, Othello, Pentago, mancala, Qwirkle, etc are all great 2 player games that require mental planning to be played well.  

Less is more.  It is one of my favorite mottos.  FWIW, it works.  I have graduated 6 of our 8 kids.  My advanced kids managed to graduate from high school at extremely elevated levels of achievement.  That happened not bc they worked longer hrs or more days.  (Trust me.  We don't.)  It happened bc learning was a lifestyle and textbooks a tool, not our dictator.  

Another fwiw, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.  That is a pretty accurate statement.  Real learning requires time to think and process.  There needs to be time for creativity, exploring, imagination.  Playing is a very important form of learning for kids.  Undirected, non-adult controlled, non-electronic free time.....learning to use time well is a life skill that is way more important than 99% of the stuff you have listed.  How many young adults know how to use time wisely and are content without electronics to entertain?

 

 

 

[Lucy the Valiant]

When you go to a restaurant, you don't order 1 of each entree on the menu, right? 😉 Because . . .  that would ruin the meal. ❤️

 

Lori knows what she's talking about.

[ScoutTN]

What they said.
Less is more. 4hrs/day max.

Do the basics well and enjoy your daughter and the freedom of homeschooling.

[8filltheheart]

10 hours ago, Lori D. said:

re: analyze every book, practice writing all the types of essays
Analysis of books, and essay writing, are not developmentally appropriate for 4th grade. Those are middle/high school skills, because they require abstract thinking/logic portions of the brain to have developed (which doesn't happen until along around age 13 on average).

I wanted to emphasize what Lori has written here.  Essays require original thinking and analysis.  Teaching writing skills is one of the failures of modern education.  They get everything backward.  Somehow ps methodology takes the approach that having kids write large volumes of papers without possessing the skills will somehow magically have students learn the skills instead of actually focusing on teaching basic writing skills.  (It is why college level writing is abysmal.  Students have never been taught how to write correctly.  They just put lots of words on paper that are disjointed, incoherent, and torture to read/correct.)  When students are writing essays, they should have already mastered all foundational writing skills: narrowed topic, thesis statement, topic sentences, supporting details, transitions, supporting quotes/info, etc.  Those are NOT mastered skills for a 4th grader.  Some of those aren't even skills a 4th grader is ready to learn.  4th graders can learn to narrow a topic and write paragraphs with topic sentences, supporting details, and start to include some transition words.  

FWIW, my kids don't start writing essays until late middle school.  By high school they can write extensive research papers that are well-researched/articulated.  They don't have to think about the writing process bc the process itself has been mastered.  They simply have to focus on expressing their thoughts.  4th graders writing essays is like trying to put clothes on a body with no skeleton, a puddle of mush lying on the floor.  The skeleton is what gives good writing structure.  Without mastering the skeleton, everything is harder and with much poorer results.

[matchaverde]

I am new to homeschooling too. And I could relate to this. We are doing "independent study" through a charter school, and trying to meet kindergarten standards threw my decision-making off the rails. I wish I could only focus on math, phonics, and handwriting ... but got to meet history and NGSS (science) standards for the year. So I somehow have two history/geography and two science curriculums planned out... for kindergarten. One to meet standards and one to meet the kindergartener's interest in natural science and geography. But I have a kid hungry for knowledge and me reading aloud to him... And I plan to do some trimming and stretching some parts out into the summer as a light fun summer school because I am not going to burn myself. And my mental health matters.

So yeah, I totally understand feeling crazy and overwhelmed. I. Still. Feel that way. Because state standards just get to me. But I cope by drawing out what our daily rhythms will be for the week (because as a stay-at-home mom with a baby, there is housework that can't be ignored). I stare at the schedule and ask myself if each item is reasonable to do? When in the day do I get some me time to have a break? I also visualize my year too, just to make sure we are not doing too much.

So, when I look at your history, I could see you are trying to meet state standards (learning California history) but you also have this classical/Charlotte Mason thing going on. Does your kid have an interest in medieval history? Because that is a lot of medieval history with the accompanying literature.

See, my plan to meet standards is to get them over with first, so I could focus on what the kid really wants to learn. So maybe for you, in your first trimester or semester, focus on only California history with BF and keep it lean (do not get the suggested books for enrichment, unless you need to meet one of standards that the provided books for BF did not cover). That way you and your daughter do not feel overwhelmed with too much history. You do not want your daughter to hate history because then it could be a problem in the future.

And after finishing BF, use the CA studies weekly once a week as a review. Or if you haven't bought it yet, don't get it.

Then once you finish covering California history, you need to figure out how many weeks you have left to cover Medieval History and here you got to plot things out and be okay to take some units out. Again, you are going to have to go lean since you are not doing a full school year schedule, unless you are planning to continue to homeschool into the summer or pick back up Medieval History in 5th grade.

I am also worried how much read alouds you have for Medieval history. 20+ is a lot, especially if you are going by 180 day school year. I don't know what you got but figure out your own criteria list to downsize. For example, I would first scan through them to see if they are really appropriate for a 4th grader and get rid of those that are meant for an older audience. Limit the number of read alouds that is on the same subject so you have variation. And see what you have left. And then look at how many chapters or how long the chapters are. And plan to read a chapter or two each time it is time to cover history. And hey, if your kid doesn't like the read aloud, skip it. That is the beauty of homeschool. We could make learning enjoyable.

I am no expert at homeschooling (since I am new to it) but I know how to teach myself in the things I am interested in. I also know my kid because at the end of the day, the kid is the curriculum. And these curriculums we buy, we have to mold them to fit the kid, not the other way around. Do what is best fit for your daughter. I am assuming science is her least favorite subject and history is her favorite?

Anyway, mama, please do not stressed out.  Try not to have this FOMO because you didn't read this or that to your kid. Aim to figure out what your homeschooling/homelife rhythm will be like with all these curriculums and books you want to do. You chosen very good ones. You just to figure out if you could fit them in your daily, weekly, monthly schedule. I think once you do some planning, it could alleviate the anxiety. Lori gave you some excellent advice what to do.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

The first step to solving a problem is realizing that you have one. So good job there. I understand the feeling like you have to do all the things. I did that when my kids were younger. But I can assure you, it absolutely will backfire.
 

One year I tried to do ALL of the math to make sure we didn’t have any holes and had covered each topic from all angles. We used Singapore math as our main curriculum. (BTW, have you done a placement test to be sure Dimensions 4 is the correct placement for your DD? Or did she do Dimensions 3 in school last year? Math placement is important!). To that we added Beast Academy a couple days a week so DC could have some experience with the discovery method. Then we did Life of Fred on Fridays along with math games. We did math facts speed drills and flash cards every day. There might have been another curriculum too but I don’t remember now. The result of trying to use all of these math programs? We burnt out and made very little math progress that year. My DC were confused because of the constantly changing topics, styles, and terminology. Everyone hated math and fought me on it and so learned nothing. The next year we went back to just one program and slowed it down and it went SO much better. 
 

If you REALLY want to use multiple programs for one subject, then do as others have suggested and plan it out so that you’re only doing one at a time. (And don’t do it for math. That was a complete disaster.) I have used multiple programs for history before and it was fine. But do units as a PP suggested or plan how they fit together in advance. I used multiple history programs because I liked and disliked different parts of each. So before the school year started, I’d gather the curriculum and supplements I wanted to use and see how I could fit them together. I was really using them as tools to teach the topics I wanted to teach. For example, one day we’d read a chapter of SOTW, the next day we’d read a library book on the same topic, then we’d watch videos online and look at related pages in a history encyclopedia, then we’d finish the week with a map. But we didn’t do all of that in one day and I had a plan going in (flexible and open to change, but a plan). 
 

Forth grade can be a really fun year. Learn some math, improve writing skills, read fiction and nonfiction on whatever interests you both, do some science and history, go on field trips, have some great conversations. But please don’t be pressured to have your 10 year old learn all the things right now. She has years and years of school and life left to learn things. Your goal is to make her WANT to continue learning at the end of this school year. 
 

Oh….and absolutely listen to whatever Lori and 8filltheheart tell you. They know what they’re talking about! 

Edited August 25, 2023 by 2ndGenHomeschooler

[EKS]

17 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

School standards are SO much lower than you think.

🤣 

I was absolutely stunned when I finally figured this out.

To the OP--I strongly recommend that you ditch all writing programs as they are all a waste of time.  Really.  Have your student write one paper each week (to the best of her ability) about something that she is learning (so history or science or whatever).  The prompts can be as straightforward as "Tell me about the French Revolution."  

For the rest of it, I'd do the following:

• Singapore Dimensions 4
• TGATB LA 4--Just read good literature
• IEW SS1A
• Fix It Grammar
• Sequential Spelling
• Word Roots
• BF CA History
• SOTW2--Only do the activities that your student enjoys (or that actually help her learn, such as the map work)
• Studies Weekly Science--Only do hands on science activities if you and your student enjoy them.  Otherwise it's absolutely fine to just read about what's interesting.  Spending lots of time outside, encouraging careful observation, and modeling curiosity about the world are far more important than canned activities.
• Studies Weekly CA History
• 20+ Medieval Read Alouds--Make sure these are, above all, interesting.
• 20+ Readers (mostly NF that go along with what we are reading)--Make sure these are, above all, interesting.
• A huge assortment of random writing guides for different essays, topics, writings, etc. ( I feel like I have to do ALL of these)
• Lit guides for all those readers (again… I feel compelled to do these….)--This is a sure way to turn a joy into a slog.
• Literary devices supplements--This is a sure way to turn a joy into a slog.
• 6 different logic books--Learning logic at this age is dumb...ask me how I know 
• ALL the supplements, supplemental books, graphic organizers, activity guides, worksheets, vocabulary for ALL the curriculum above… all the video link and encyclopedias referenced.

[matchaverde]

Okay, I went to look at Beautiful Feet Books for California History.  It is designed to be 3 lessons a day for a school year. Each lesson is 1 hour long. So, if you do try to condense this curriculum to a semester, you have to really look at what you can take out - that is if you planned to still do both California and medieval history.

I am not familiar with how SOTW is set up and how long each lessons are. But SOTW is a whole year's curriculum. Maybe you could look into this so you can figure out what to fit in your day.

Trimming these two curriculums may be too much of a hassle. So yeah, sorry for the bad advice earlier...They are both great curriculums; it might be a disservice for you and your daughter if you cut too much out.

So...

If you are not homeschooling through a charter school for fourth grade, and you and your kid rather cover Medieval History, ditch California history. I wish I could be in this boat when my kid is in 4th grade because I do not like following standards but I need help to cover homeschooling costs.

If you are homeschooling through a charter school, then do BFB California history or SOTW 2 with CA Studies Weekly (California Studies Weekly should meet state standards.) And if you still want the books from BFB, just get the ones you like and not buy the teacher guide.

[EKS]

One more thing about teaching writing...

The very best thing you can do now that will prepare you to help your student learn to write well is to take a writing intensive class that is at the edge of your understanding about whatever field you choose (but not a writing/composition course).  Then, as you complete the assignments (to the absolute best of your ability), think about what is difficult, what is important, what what process you use, how your process changes, that sort of thing.  If possible, take more than one class in more than one field.  This will be a far better use of your time and will make you a far better instructor later on (when it will be appropriate to teach her how to write an academic paper) than forcing your student through multiple writing programs (when she is 9-10 years old).

You may have taken writing intensive courses in the past, you may even be a professional writer, but the difference here is that you will be thinking about teaching writing, something that most students find quite difficult, as you are being challenged yourself to write about something that you only just learned.  

ETA:  I somehow only just noticed that the OP is only intending to homeschool for a year.  Doing the above only makes sense as an investment in future homeschooling (as in teaching high school level writing).  But hopefully someone finds the idea useful (and not as overwhelming as it sounds).

Edited August 25, 2023 by EKS

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, 2ndGenHomeschooler said:

Oh….and absolutely listen to whatever Lori and 8filltheheart tell you. They know what they’re talking about! 

Amen! I have some of their conversations copied and saved on my computer. There's a post where @8filltheheart talks extensively about how to teach writing, I've printed that one out and it's in a binder I have about teaching notes.

California does not require any specific curriculums/topics covered or anything if you are just homeschooling via affidavit. If you are doing it through a Charter they should be able to provide you with some what the state standards are. If you read the actual state standards it sounds intense but that's only because it's written in education-ese public school teachers are absolutely not doing what you've outlined because it's way too much. People need downtime to process what they've been taught otherwise there is no retention.

My children are young, but the only other thing is I've used/looked at Studies Weekly in the past and it's nothing. You can give the weekly sheet to a child and they can complete it in 5 minutes. The work is fun busywork, pretty superficial stuff. If you have other things covering similar topics it's not going to educationally add anything.   

[AnneGG]

I have been homeschooling for five years and I still over plan. Every year.
 

I had a *moment* earlier today when I removed lesson plans from my Happy Planner after realizing there was no way we could do some of the things I had hoped we would. I might have shed a few tears into my emergency chocolate stash as I grieved my map making with play doh lesson plans. I worked hard on those! I went to four stores to find all the shades of blue playdoh. Lol!

But it’s okay. I’ve saved all the extras for now and we might do them next year or I can pass them on/sell them next summer.

Just enjoy your year of being together and know that you’re not alone in the excitement of doing all the things. 

[Mommalongadingdong]

3 hours ago, Clarita said:

Amen! I have some of their conversations copied and saved on my computer. There's a post where @8filltheheart talks extensively about how to teach writing, I've printed that one out and it's in a binder I have about teaching notes.

California does not require any specific curriculums/topics covered or anything if you are just homeschooling via affidavit. If you are doing it through a Charter they should be able to provide you with some what the state standards are. If you read the actual state standards it sounds intense but that's only because it's written in education-ese public school teachers are absolutely not doing what you've outlined because it's way too much. People need downtime to process what they've been taught otherwise there is no retention.

My children are young, but the only other thing is I've used/looked at Studies Weekly in the past and it's nothing. You can give the weekly sheet to a child and they can complete it in 5 minutes. The work is fun busywork, pretty superficial stuff. If you have other things covering similar topics it's not going to educationally add anything.   

Can you elaborate on what is vs isn’t superficial? Above people stated that analysis and whatnot isn’t age appropriate, so do you just mean it’s just doesn’t go into nitty gritty detail in terms of like, cultures and such? 

I feel like ALL the curriculums require all these extra supplements to not be superficial, kwim? So I’m confused because it seems like it’s counterintuitive advice when I’m hearing KISS from some and don’t settle for surface level from others. 

[Mommalongadingdong]

5 hours ago, matchaverde said:

Okay, I went to look at Beautiful Feet Books for California History.  It is designed to be 3 lessons a day for a school year. Each lesson is 1 hour long. So, if you do try to condense this curriculum to a semester, you have to really look at what you can take out - that is if you planned to still do both California and medieval history.

I am not familiar with how SOTW is set up and how long each lessons are. But SOTW is a whole year's curriculum. Maybe you could look into this so you can figure out what to fit in your day.

Trimming these two curriculums may be too much of a hassle. So yeah, sorry for the bad advice earlier...They are both great curriculums; it might be a disservice for you and your daughter if you cut too much out.

So...

If you are not homeschooling through a charter school for fourth grade, and you and your kid rather cover Medieval History, ditch California history. I wish I could be in this boat when my kid is in 4th grade because I do not like following standards but I need help to cover homeschooling costs.

If you are homeschooling through a charter school, then do BFB California history or SOTW 2 with CA Studies Weekly (California Studies Weekly should meet state standards.) And if you still want the books from BFB, just get the ones you like and not buy the teacher guide.

This is pretty much exactly what I’m planning to do, thank you! 

[Ellie]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:31 PM, Mommalongadingdong said:

This is going to sound bizarre, but I really need some guidance/comfort/advice from other homeschoolers because I know no one to go to about this.

I’m homeschooling my 4th grader for the first time this year.  It will likely be only this year, as she wants to try it/dislikes her school more than I am philosophically minded to homeschool.

I have overbooked our day with way too many writing options, notebooking/extras for THREE history curriculums, picked out over 20+ read alouds for LA/history, and am just overwhelmed with ALL the stuff. I know, the answer is to cut stuff out, BUT I want to make sure she is hitting grade standards and I don’t miss anything. I want to do book reports/analysis of every book she reads (unreasonable), I want her to practice writing all the types of essays in addition to her IEW and TGATB (unreasonable), I want to do CM style notebooking for SOTW2 and BF CA history along with writings/activities (unreasonable?). I don’t even subscribe to the CM philosophy, but the aesthetics just *are*. 
I spend more time finding the perfect mix of stuff than actually doing it (not really, but kind of). 

I’m just so worried I’m missing something, and I know, it’s only grade 4, she’ll relearn it all just about every year. Swiss cheese and all that. But my head and my anxiety are clashing and I could use some advice or maybe permission to cut some things? 

Here is what we have:

Singapore Dimensions 4

TGATB LA 4

IEW SS1A

Fix It Grammar

Sequential Spelling

Word Roots

BF CA History

SOTW2

Studies Weekly Science 

Studies Weekly CA History

20+ Medieval Read Alouds 

20+ Readers (mostly NF that go along with what we are reading)

A huge assortment of random writing guides for different essays, topics, writings, etc. ( I feel like I have to do ALL of these)

Lit guides for all those readers (again… I feel compelled to do these….)

Literary devices supplements

6 different logic books

ALL the supplements, supplemental books, graphic organizers, activity guides, worksheets, vocabulary for ALL the curriculum above… all the video link and encyclopedias referenced.

It’s SO much, and at the same time I don’t know what I can do vs not do to make it all well rounded.

 

Please, please help me accept that I don’t have to do all the activities for everything.

There are no "grade standards" that you have to cover.

If you keep her English and math skills going, everything else is gravy. None of the other things you want to do will affect her success if she goes to school. Really.

You cannot possibly do even half of the things you have listed. And if you try, you and she will have a miserable year, and you don't want that.

Here's what I would keep:

• Studies Weekly CA History
• *or* BF Books (although I prefer Lesha Myers' "His California Story," but BF Books is ok.)
• Studies Weekly Science
• Singapore math
• Word Roots
• *One* literature guide for *one* book each quarter. Just one.
• Are you reading the books aloud to her, or what? If you're reading aloud, do one chapter a day from *one book* until you finish, then start a new book. If she is reading herself, put the books in a basket and walk away; she can read them or not.
• One logic book. For the whole year.
• After a few months, if you seem to have time, you could add the grammar.

Get rid of all the rest.

[Lori D.]

Not wanting to sidetrack this thread from original poster's focus, but I just wanted to add to @EKS's suggestion about how to learn to write/teach writing (taking a writing intensive class to challenge yourself). While that is ONE way to do it -- and may be a great way for some, and yea! so glad that worked so well for you EKS, and thanks for offering your experience and idea! 😄 -- that is totally NOT how I learned to teach writing to my own DSs while homeschooling, nor how I learned to teach writing to a class.

There are many ways to learn how to teach writing, and some people really do find that a writing program helps them see how to teach writing (although, that was not what worked for me). But... getting into all of that would be great for a separate thread. 😉 

And I believe the thread @Clarita is referencing is "Bringing Karen's mention of essay writing to a new thread" -- look for the 2 back-to-back posts by @8filltheheart that are about 3/4 of the way down on the first page of that thread.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

Can you elaborate on what is vs isn’t superficial? Above people stated that analysis and whatnot isn’t age appropriate, so do you just mean it’s just doesn’t go into nitty gritty detail in terms of like, cultures and such? 

I feel like ALL the curriculums require all these extra supplements to not be superficial, kwim? So I’m confused because it seems like it’s counterintuitive advice when I’m hearing KISS from some and don’t settle for surface level from others. 

Exactly how does a 4th grader analyze something and then write about it coherently?  Analysis would be something along the lines of "what were the economic impacts of the California gold rush."  That is a completely inappropriate topic for a 4th grader.  It requires research, drawing conclusions, providing evidence, etc.  Describing 1 specific narrowed aspect of the gold rush would be an appropriate 4th grade topic.  Factual.  Descriptive.  Not analytical.  4th graders need to be focusing on the writing process.  That is accomplished by writing about things they understand.  Think of it this way.  Would a young student who doesn't know how to type be well-served by being taught how to type full paragraphs simultaneously while being taught how to write a paragraph?  Or is learning to type better taught ff jj ff jj dd kk dd kk until basic key strokes are mastered and typing is accomplished without actually having to think about what letter you are hitting?  That IS how children learn.  It is better to learn the hows of writing by focusing on the writing process with simple content.  Then, when they are older, the writing process is not the focus of thought, but the analysis is.  The writing process itself is like fingers typing......mastered already.

FWIW, I don't use "curricula" other than math and spelling when my kids are younger.  I create the courses that they do by putting together reading lists and writing assignments. I tailor every course to my individual kids' needs.  Some of my kids are very slow readers.  Books are paced accordingly.  Some of my kids fly through everything.  Again, their progress is paced according to their ability.  We don't use textbooks for anything other than math/spelling in 4th grade.  Whole books on topics are way more engaging and cover content in more depth.  My kids don't touch science textbooks until high school level science.  (I have 3 kids who are in STEM fields, one graduated from high school having completed a minor in physics through dual enrollment.  His first science textbook was in 8th grade for alg based physics.) 

Here is the link (it's 2 posts long) to the writing post that Clarita mentioned.  This was originally written when my now 25 yod was in 2nd grade.  (She is our 5th out of 8 kids.)  This is the approach I have used with all of them.  My youngest is in 8th grade this yr. She wrote her first (and very basic) essay last yr.   (And that was what I expected from her as a very gifted young lady.  Only 1 of my kids wrote an essay earlier than that....in 6th grade.  That was my 25 yod.  She is a language loving girl who studied 3 languages, read epic poetry for fun, and created a sr thesis on Shakespeare for her 12th grade English course.)   One appropriate step at a time makes for substantial progress.  

Edited August 25, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[EKS]

@Lori D. To be honest, I think that most important thing that taking a class did was to give me empathy for my students.  I was a natural writer growing up and later on worked as a professional medical/scientific writer, so prior to the class thing, I had trouble understanding why my students found writing difficult.  But the key wasn't just taking the class(es)--it was really analyzing the experience of writing something difficult through the lens of how you would teach someone else to do it as that experience was happening.

The classes also also showed me what sorts of assignments are given in college, the rubrics, and even the level of the other students, what sorts of mistakes they make (lots of them, it turns out!), that sort of thing. 

In my view, the biggest problem with writing programs is that they teach writing as though it's a series of steps, and if you just do the steps, the writing will follow.  Frequently they leave out the most important parts--things like thinking, writing, thinking some more, getting stuck...how many writing programs talk about getting stuck? 

Anyway, sure, a person doesn't have to do the class thing in order to teach writing properly--you are an example, and probably practically every other person on the planet who teaches writing properly is as well--but doing it can give a person a unique window into a process that can be very difficult even for a "natural."  

[PeterPan]

12 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

I feel like ALL the curriculums require all these extra supplements to not be superficial, kwim? So I’m confused because it seems like it’s counterintuitive advice when I’m hearing KISS from some and don’t settle for surface level from others. 

 

On 8/23/2023 at 10:31 PM, Mommalongadingdong said:

she wants to try it/dislikes her school

So I have two options here, pasta I'm throwing at the wall, and you see what sticks.

1) You have fear/anxiety about this you need to identify. (fear of not doing a good job, anxiety in general, whatever)

2) You want your dd to hate homeschooling so she'll go back to school.

If you don't want to homeschool, DON'T. Enroll her in a charter school, find a fully done curriculum instead of piecemealing things together, whatever you want. The hoops you're jumping through are completely unnecessary. You could go sign up for K12, do a core from Timberdoodle, sign up for a grade level from Oak Meadow, whatever, and ANY of those options would be well done, allow her to ENJOY her year at home, and relieve this stress you're feeling.

At some point you have to be honest with yourself. Reflect, know your needs as a teacher, be honest about who you are, how you feel about this, and what you need to be comfortable.  

Success in choosing curriculum comes when you find the nexus of what YOU need to be comfortable as the teacher/supervising parent and what your CHILD needs to succeed. List these things out!!

Mom needs--open and go or no teaching at all, less stress over choosing materials, I'm just making up things.

Child needs--efficient with clear structure to fit her learner/personality style (see Cathy Duffy for this, HIGHLY recommend looking at her learner profiles), artsy/creative options every day, lots of free time for reading, whatever is HER mojo, her driver, the thing that makes HER come alive

 See how you get there? You CANNOT have success taking someone else's list and pasting it into your home and onto your child. Be honest with yourself about your needs and feelings and ask HER about her needs and feelings. Then take those lists, bring them here, pray over them, and say ok what meets both sides reasonably well?

Oak Meadow and Timberdoodle especially are excellent when kids are a bit alternative, wanting more creativity, more freedom. K12 would be another really standard, solid, reasonable option. You would not go wrong with any of those three. You have extreme duplication in your lists due to lack of confidence or whatever it is. If you cannot see your way to streamlining it, then just buy a grade level from one of these good vendors and give her the great year she deserves. Seriously. 

I've piecemealed for 20 years now and it's not romantic and not the only way. Be honest with yourself and get some peace. Streamline your list radically or buy a grade level from someone. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by PeterPan

[EKS]

12 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

So I’m confused because it seems like it’s counterintuitive advice when I’m hearing KISS from some and don’t settle for surface level from others.

Not settling for surface level isn't the same as using tons of resources.  What makes an education deep and enriching is the teaching--the discussions, the experiences, and so on--and that ultimately comes from you, not the resources you use.  I'd argue that the more resources you throw at it, the more superficial the experience is apt to be.  Find a few resources that work for you, that support a conversation between you and your student, and then slow down and savor the connection they help you develop.

I feel like I'm channeling Kpzzz here--does anyone remember her?  

[PeterPan]

18 hours ago, EKS said:

For the rest of it, I'd do the following:

• Singapore Dimensions 4
• TGATB LA 4--Just read good literature
• IEW SS1A
• Fix It Grammar
• Sequential Spelling
• Word Roots
• BF CA History
• SOTW2--Only do the activities that your student enjoys (or that actually help her learn, such as the map work)
• Studies Weekly Science--Only do hands on science activities if you and your student enjoy them.  Otherwise it's absolutely fine to just read about what's interesting.  Spending lots of time outside, encouraging careful observation, and modeling curiosity about the world are far more important than canned activities.
• Studies Weekly CA History
• 20+ Medieval Read Alouds--Make sure these are, above all, interesting.
• 20+ Readers (mostly NF that go along with what we are reading)--Make sure these are, above all, interesting.
• A huge assortment of random writing guides for different essays, topics, writings, etc. ( I feel like I have to do ALL of these)
• Lit guides for all those readers (again… I feel compelled to do these….)--This is a sure way to turn a joy into a slog.
• Literary devices supplements--This is a sure way to turn a joy into a slog.
• 6 different logic books--Learning logic at this age is dumb...ask me how I know 
• ALL the supplements, supplemental books, graphic organizers, activity guides, worksheets, vocabulary for ALL the curriculum above… all the video link and encyclopedias referenced.

I love the way EKS trimmed this down. Now I'll play.

-LA--TGATB, IEW, Fix It, Sequential Spelling, Word Roots, random extra writing guides, multiple books on literary devices, 6 logic books, graphic organizers/worksheets/vocabulary guide for ??, literature in the BF CA history, 20+ read alouds (not realistic), and 20+ NF readers (depends on if she likes NF even)

-Math-Singapore 4

-History/Social Studies--SOTW2 with activities, BF CA history, more CA history

-Science-weekly studies? 

When you clump it this way, you see the problem. 🙂 Way too much LA, two complete history approaches, one of which is meant as a UNIT STUDY which means it includes writing, literature, geography, etc. You have nothing artistic, nothing fun, nothing that appeals to a gifted dc. You don't have a foreign language or anything that reflects the unique values of your family. 

-Logic--Look at them, but logic books at this age are mostly language work. Sometimes they're also vision, but they're mostly language. Plan on ONE. Just one. If she gets that done, then buy another.

-History--chose one or the other. We have the requirement to "do" state history in our state, but most people hit that with FIELD TRIPS. Consider planning field trips for that and doing one curriculum or the other. 

-LA--Does this dc have solid basic narrative language skills? Can she tell you about a book she read? Can she write a decent little narration about what she read in a nonfiction book? You want a writing plan that helps her take the next step from what she already does well. IEW would be fine but that's a COMPLETE PROGRAM. If you do that, you merely add subject writing in her science, history, etc. using those graphic organizers you were keen on. If you do the BF CA history, I would be cautious about doing the IEW. You might find it's too much, because BF includes quite a bit of writing with optional projects, etc. Personally, I'd consider working on TYPING instead of adding another writing program on top of the BF. If you do the IEW, again working on typing might be handy.

Word roots are the next step after basic spelling is mastered. They represent morphology, which is advanced spelling. So administer a test, see where her spelling is at, and do ONE thing for spelling. Not two or three. 

I'm not a fan of IEW Fix It, blech. If you like it, fine. I wouldn't do more than she needs, mercy. I *little* grammar is a very good thing, and grammar can fit the learner type (see Cathy Duffy). If she's very material of fact, then maybe a more direct grammar resource. If you're pretty overloaded with ideas for the year, maybe something you do just once a week like some Punctuation Puzzlers would be great. LOVE the Punctuation Puzzlers at this age.

The other thing I had to do to reign myself in was to schedule out everything. Assign each thing a time value, start filling in the schedule, and just let reality hit. You don't want their total hours per day to be more than grade + 1, and that INCLUDES their free reading time. She if she is allotted 1 ½ hours to read per day, that means TOTAL your formal time with her is no more than 3 ½ hours.

If you stick to this kind of discipline, where you say it has to fit in 3 ½ hours, we stop at 3 ½ hours, you'll find she has energy to read, be creative, etc., which means she will ENJOY her homeschooling. 

I'm a little confused. Why all non-fiction books for her reading buffet? This is an age where I used a reading diversity log with my dd. My dd ended up with top scores, but for a while she was all about the comics oh my. I made a log sheet with genres and had her try to read something from each genre every week. It got her diversity in her reading. 

Lit guides. Ok, I'm not sure why you're so enthused about these. I agree an excessive amount will KILL her enjoyment. Guides have enough questions for a whole class and they're COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY for many kids. I do like working on literary devices in a workshop approach. That's something that takes 10-15 minutes and it's easy to chunk and throw onto that schedule. You can work on scheduling and see what happens.

You might consider adding in some arts, via opera or shakespeare, both of which are great for this age, and doing your comprehension/guides with that. Around that age I did Shakespeare COMEDIES with my dd. I'd have her read a comic version (Oxford Press) and then we'd watch a video and use a comprehension guide to pause and discuss at points. There are maybe 6 or 8, so you can do that once a month, once every other week, and it's something you look forward to, not a burnout thing. 

I suggest when scheduling you allow a LIGHT day, so the opera/Shakespeare thing, where you watch the performances together, can be a long 1 ½  hour chunk and basically fill up your light day. The rest of that could be flexible stuff like cooking (yes!!!) or sewing or an art class or whatever she's into. Then you'd have filled a day and you won't have so much stress when life happens. If you fill up 5 days, you're going to have stress.

[PeterPan]

Just now, EKS said:

Not settling for surface level isn't the same as using tons of resources.  What makes an education deep and enriching is the teaching--the discussions, the experiences, and so on--and that ultimately comes from you, not the resources you use.  I'd argue that the more resources you throw at it, the more superficial the experience is apt to be.  Find a few resources that work for you, that support a conversation between you and your student, and then slow down and savor the connection they help you develop.

I feel like I'm channeling Kpzzz here--does anyone remember her?  

Yes and yes!!! Kpzzz famously said that the reward for hard work should not be MORE WORK. That has stuck with me a long time.

All op has to do is actually starting putting this stuff into a schedule. Max 3 ½ hours per day so her dc has time to read. It will all clean up on its own when she does that. 🙂

[Clarita]

12 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

an you elaborate on what is vs isn’t superficial? Above people stated that analysis and whatnot isn’t age appropriate, so do you just mean it’s just doesn’t go into nitty gritty detail in terms of like, cultures and such? 

It's superficial in that, each weekly page is just some snippet of information not related to anything before or after it. If you are using anything else you wouldn't miss anything by not doing Studies Weekly. If you have to send in sample work for CA history, then it will check that box. 

12 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

I feel like ALL the curriculums require all these extra supplements to not be superficial, kwim?

I don't know what you mean. If you think a curriculum is superficial and isn't teaching your child anything why would you use it? For example if you think IEW isn't going to teach your child to write dump it and just do whatever you think will teach your child to write. If you do think IEW will teach your child to write then great use it and for current planning purposes you don't need anything else. When you start IEW and your daughter is struggling with notetaking in IEW then supplement at that point.   

A lot of studies on how people learn show that doing more things doesn't mean learning more things. Every piece of school work I make my children do, I think about what I want them to learn from it.

[PeterPan]

There's another saying: Don't let your school work get in the way of your education. 😄

If you keep them too busy with stuff they didn't really need to do, they don't have time to do the investigation, the self-driven learning, the trying of things, the hands-on learning, the MASTERFUL PLAY they need to do. 

Who says masterful play? Was that a @Lori D. thing or a Charlotte Mason thing? One of them said it. 😂 

I just continue to wonder what this 4th grader wants out of her homeschooling. What does she want to do with that time? Is some of it that masterful play? Is overscheduling mom-driven stuff going to squeeze out the (almost more important) kid-driven learning?

[Clarita]

Also a little trick if you don't like how a curriculum teaches a subject and really you are just using it to make sure you cover everything. Most curriculum will show you their scope and sequence. Just copy or print that out then use your own stuff or whatever to teach those topics. 

[ScoutTN]

Math - Singapore

ELA - read books and poetry, grammar and spelling each 2x/week. Work on writing a solid paragraph. 

Science - library books, hands-on things, zoo, nature center, planetarium etc. 2x/wk

History - SOTW 2. It has good book lists and it’s easy to find more. 2x/week

Read aloud: 30+ mins 4-5x week. Audiobooks count too. We alternated between a straight-up lit book and something history related. 

Electives/bonus:
CA history 2x/week

Something she chooses: art, music, coding, handcrafts, whatever. This does not have to be one thing all yr. Go with the flow of her interests. 

MAX 4 hrs/day.

Leave time for extra curricular activities, unstructured play time, and social things. 

 

[Green Bean]

Look at Memoria Press 4th Grade. Streamlined. They read 4 books- just 4 a year for literature, 1 science book slowly, 1 history book slowly, 1 geography book slowly. Less is more, really. Have a great book list for free reading. Don't worry over writing skills so much. Being able to write a good paragraph is really enough at this age.

A box is not bad ESPECIALLY when you feel pressured to fit all the skills in. If you think she is going back next year, then you should look into choosing a box. Oak Meadow is a great choice IF she (and you) like hands-on stuff. Timberdoodle is $$$, but if you bought all the stuff you have listed, you would be spending way more anyway! BJU Press Homeschool Online is standard Christian school stuff.

No actual curriculum would ever contain all you have listed. Just pick one thing and do it well. TGTB LA? You don't need another thing for LA skills. Really and truely. SOTW? You don't need another thing for history. Really and truely. And so on.

A word about math: has she used Singapore Math before? Did you give her the placement test? That holds true for any math you look into. She needs to take the placement test and start where she places.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Green Bean
Insane amount of typos!

[Ting Tang]

Oh, I have come up with a long list like this before!  I really couldn't do everything.  I am on year 4 of homeschooling and am going to try the CM approach with my children.  I am not sure I made the right choice and tend to second guess, but I figure they need the basics but can truly learn just by reading engaging books, whether it is fiction of nonfiction.  

Singapore Dimensions Grade 4 is a lot.  We did that last year.  It's great --  but for the average child, that is going to take up some time all by itself.  

I think you've gotten lots of great help here.  I am just stopping by to say it is okay you cannot do everything on your list.  There are lots of great curriculum options, and sometimes it is just hard to pick, but we can't pick them all.  You can always be aware that they exist for the next year if you do want to mix things up.  

[Shoeless]

Sometimes more is just more. 

You can't engage deeply with something if you are too busy with 100 other things. 

This is the school model: throw 100 worksheets, assessments, projects at the students and see what sticks. Complain when the students aren't engaging deeply with the material, and then add 100 more worksheets, assessments, projects, posters, essays, workbooks, etc., because surely, this time it will be different. 

If you cut that list way, way down like others have suggested, you will have time to explore interests as they pop up. 

 

[8filltheheart]

This article made me think if this thread. The article exemplifies why I completely ignore ps methodologies. Quality education is no longer a goal for school systems. Everything is reduced to testing, expediency, and equalization. Those are 100% counter to my goals. 

I agree with these quotes and represent why less is more and taking time to develop deep thinking slowly over yrs is a better approach than skimming the surface of a lot.

This is a critical part of becoming a literate person—to be able to dig and reflect and examine and explore a full text. To take time to do all that and then craft a thoughtful response. This should be a major part of every student’s education.

But as long as high stakes testing pushes a quick, superficial solo reaction to a context-free excerpt, schools will de-prioritize teaching reading and literacy as a reflective, collaborative, thoughtful deep dive into a complete work. And that will be a loss for students.

[ScoutTN]

Agree with placement testing for math. 
 

Great article, @8filltheheart. Thank you for posting it.

[Mommalongadingdong]

I really appreciate the breakdown of what writing at this age is all about. I understand and agree with the concept. It reminds me of a new writing curriculum I saw (I didn’t buy lol). I trimmed a lot, and am looking forward to seeing how our schedule goes. Thank you all so much! It’s given me a lot to think about, especially in terms of what my goals are for her education.

 

I did place her in 4A for Singapore, she passed the 3B test. She is quite bright. She tested into GATE and was in a dual language immersion program at her ps. Part of what convinced me to pull her was that she was breezing through everything and spent her whole day assisting other students with their math and reading, and her district doesn’t have an explicit GATE program/class - they just move along the honors track in middle school. Also, they move down to a 20/80 Spanish/English ratio for learning in 4th, and that’s just not enough to keep it going. We’re a bilingual house anyways. 

I guess I was just… ignorant to what I was hoping to provide and what education actually looks like. I still am 😬, but feel more confident after making these cuts. 
 

[8filltheheart]

Glad bouncing ideas around helped. 🙂

I thought I'd clarify (in case there is any confusion) that the quotes I pulled out of that article reflect high school, not 4th grade. The premise is the same, though---deep and thought-provoking ideas take time and are not developed by rushing through a stack. Ps's offer superficial learning objectives... adding more to that approach does not make it deeper.

[ScoutTN]

SWB has great talks on teaching writing! 

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

I still am 😬, but feel more confident after making these cuts. 

Sounds good!

7 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

a bilingual house

So is there a spot for her to do Spanish immersion every day? I didn't see that on your list, but it sounds like it's an important part of your values. If you trim enough other things, you could have maybe 30-45 minutes a day where she can read books in Spanish, watch videos in Spanish, whatever is her next step. You can hire online spanish conversation tutors (live) pretty affordably. She could do that 2-3 days a week and then watch a fun movie in Spanish another day and read another.

I'm glad it's coming together better for you!! Remember, you can't do it all at once. It's ok to pick 2-3 emphases for the year and focus on those, knowing you can focus on other goals a different year. Not that you slack, but more where your emphasis is can change each year. If something gets slighted during the school year, you can pick it up during the summer in a fun way. You don't have to do it all at once, just eventually. 🙂