What are your educational priorities?

[alysee]

I know lots of families the educational priorities may change from year to year but for us they are quite consistent. 

I want my kids to:

be able to spell well

read a variety of books

write clearly

have a creative outlet

do basic math

know how to research/find information. 

The "extras" are what my kids want to learn for the year. Handwriting, typing, languages, coding

What are your priorities? 

Edited June 16, 2023 by alysee

[HomeAgain]

Mine have fluctuated over the years, but I think they ended up being these:

• understand how to interpret math: that it is a language of its own that requires logic and patience.
• to love reading, or at least associate good memories with books.
• know how to write a paper.
• develop skills in the area of attention to detail, organizing, and pacing out work for large projects to satisfy due dates.
• develop a sense of aesthetic and know how to make something simple look clean, neat, and professional.
• develop a variety of fine motor skills
• have a sense of how language works: the mechanics, the etymology, and the construction
• have multisensory experiences that connect individual skills to how they fit into the real world
• understand historical fact and historical bias, and how to ask questions to dive deeper
• have a firm grasp of how the world works scientifically, and what the scientific method is, plus learn to apply it to various things
• developing concentration and attention skills, including how to get the most out of a presentation (notes, prep, highlighting...)

 

[Clarita]

My kids are so little that I'm kind of afraid to make large over arching educational priorities at this moment.

Basically I just want my kids to be able to be to learn whatever it is they want to or need to learn in the future. In other words to become lifelong learners.

So far we as a family have evaluated what we did the previous year's work and then talk about how we want the next year to look and what "goals" we might have.   

[bookbard]

For me, the first goal has always been for the kids to discover what they're interested in. I come across so many kids who don't know this, because they just do the next thing and the next thing. I've supported this by giving them time to spend on their interests, and teaching them how to deepen their interests by following up on them. 

Secondly, I want them to have a broad general knowledge - while I'm not a classical homeschooler, I do like the concept of 'being able to participate in the Great Conversation'. I have come across a number of adults who can't participate in many conversations because they don't have a shared knowledge of basic things like mythology, history, politics etc. I think this is done by giving them lots of books/documentaries on different topics.

I've always wanted my kids to be bookworms, and they are. Research has suggested that having a house with lots of books in it, modelling reading yourself, and providing time for reading all help create bookworms. 

Finally, I'd like my kids to persist with something, wrestle with it even, and work on it till it's done. I have seen this with things they're interested in. I haven't seen it with things I've forced them to do. I'm hoping it will carry across to the stuff they have to do (boring adult stuff), when it's time to do it.  I wonder how they will go with higher maths - they're both at or above grade level with maths right now, but they haven't hit the 'got to really struggle with it' maths yet. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Besides many of the excellent things mentioned already, I wanted my kids to be lifelong learners. And I wanted them to have the skills to go to college or any other training they desired once they were done with high school. 

[8filltheheart]

Looking forward from when I started as a mom of 3 little ones to now looking back having 6 adults and 2 teens, my priorities that have remained unchanged are

1. making our home a living example of our faith and nurturing those beliefs in our children
2. preserving childhood (this has always been a core priority for me.  I didn't spend time on preschool academics and instead focused on nurturing imagination and exploration.  Learning to self-entertain and self-regulate were the outcomes of this lifestyle.)

Those 2 ultimately influenced every other aspect of our homeschool philosophy and therefore priorities.  Our homeschool isn't a school or a classroom.  It is a lifestyle.  Academics was and is part of their daily lives as they got/get older, but academics formed around their interests and nurturing their internal motivation.  Ultimately, everything has to come from inside of them.  So, making learning about coming from inside vs. being told from the outside what is valuable and what is necessary belongs to them as adults.

The minimums in our home are literature, theology, philosophy, history, math, and science.  Not a single one of my kids has had an education that looks like a siblings. That is bc individual courses plus all of their electives have been completely tailored to them.  

I thought by the time I got to my youngest that I would know what I was doing. I figured between all of the literature, math, science, foreign languages, computer programming, etc that I would know what to use/how to plan. Nope.  Laughs on me.  I still don't.  My youngest loves music.  Violin, voice, performing......all of which I know absolutely nothing about.  That is what makes homeschooling such a fun adventure.  I get to go on the journey with them.

ETA: The discussions on these forums used to be different in nature than they are today.  I did a search and found an old thread that wasn't a dead link.  This one is from 2011 (at that pt I had been participating in discussions on the WTM for something like 11 or 12 yrs IIRC.  I think I found the forums around 1999.)  The superficiality of today's forum discussions reflects the superficiality of educational philosophies at large.    And here is another link from 2019.  

Anyway, my pt is that my answer to your question would never be a list of academic subjects.  It is far more about forming their minds to think than checking off a list of things they can do.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[Nm.]

@8filltheheart perhaps part of the problem is that there are too many options today…decision fatigue.  

[Amoret]

56 minutes ago, Nm. said:

perhaps part of the problem is that there are too many options today…decision fatigue.  

Or the expectation among some that it should be inexpensive and effortless, yet yield stellar results.

When I started homeschooling, my primary goal was that by the time my kids graduated, they didn't hate any subject. When I was teaching undergrads and even graduate students, I saw that too often (and was a victim of it myself when I graduated from high school). Once a student comes to hate a subject, it is almost impossible to rekindle an interest.

In practice, our homeschool is similar to some of the longer-time posters here -- student centered, rigorous, with very, very little outsourcing and learning integrated into our days. My kids had ample time to play and indulge their imaginations when they were little, and now that they are at/near high school age, they have ample time to pursue their own interests. Often, I am learning alongside my kids. I have a PhD in one subject, but have so much yet to learn in others (and still more even in my area of expertise -- I have revisited some texts I used to teach and now see them in a whole new light). These days, I am learning as much from my kids as they are from me. Running our homeschool is a full time job, and I work hard at it, as do my kids, but we all enjoy it quite a lot.

[8filltheheart]

14 minutes ago, Amoret said:

Or the expectation among some that it should be inexpensive and effortless, yet yield stellar results.

Yes for quite a few. Independent. Taught by someone else. Not time consuming. (High school in 2-3 hrs provides an absolutely stellar education.) Workbooks or even better, online with self-grading.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, Nm. said:

@8filltheheart perhaps part of the problem is that there are too many options today…decision fatigue.  

I personally didn’t find it difficult to cross all the options that included busy work or just duplicated brick and mortar school off my list. I never saw the point of replicating what I could get for free from the government or perhaps in a private school. 

[cintinative]

3 hours ago, Nm. said:

@8filltheheart perhaps part of the problem is that there are too many options today…decision fatigue.  

I can see that, but I am also disturbed by the number of facebook posts in homeschool groups:  "looking for 9th grade English, science, history, etc." with no particulars given.  It is as if they can't be bothered to do the research to figure out what to use. It seems to be the ready fire aim method of homeschool planning and it scares me.  IMO, there should be serious thought given to curriculum choices. 

[Amoret]

58 minutes ago, cintinative said:

IMO, there should be serious thought given to curriculum choices. 

I absolutely agree -- But doing so requires you to have a deep understanding of you kids, clear priorities and goals, and an awareness of the range of options out there. I personally think that this should be a given if you decide to homeschool, but I know that it is actually quite rare these days. I try not to lose sight of the fact that I have the knowledge, ability, time, and desire to do these things, but that is not the case for everyone. I know of people, for example, who have been thrown into homeschooling unwillingly (their kids were being mercilessly bullied at school) and who are trying to make the best of it under very difficult circumstances, so I try to be open-minded. They don't know where to start. I am always tempted to offer advice and guidance, but I am doubtful that anyone going for the "ready aim fire" method really wants to hear me tell them that taking the path that will really allow your kids to thrive "is harder but it's worth it." So many programs promise low effort, high reward -- why work so hard when you don't have to?

Like Jean in Newcastle, I have never found there to be a plethora of good options, but I have appreciated having a variety of decent choices and approaches available for math, especially at the elementary level (and would love more good options for the upper grades). We have used different programs over the years, and it was never a matter of decision fatigue for us. Instead, it was a matter of identifying a problem with our current program (for example, DD loved the puzzles in BA and was doing okay with it, but she needed more review and a slower pace) and then finding something else that would be a better fit (in that case, it was Math Mammoth). It was about finding a curriculum to fit our needs instead of us adapting to fit the expectations of a curriculum.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Amoret

[Porridge]

@Amoret and @8filltheheart, how did / do you maintain your motivation over the years? Do you have a community of other families or moms, or are you mostly on your own? I assume your kids aren't always enthusiastic or compliant - how have you managed those seasons and avoided burn out?

[8filltheheart]

31 minutes ago, Porridge said:

@Amoret and @8filltheheart, how did / do you maintain your motivation over the years? Do you have a community of other families or moms, or are you mostly on your own? I assume your kids aren't always enthusiastic or compliant - how have you managed those seasons and avoided burn out?

We have moved a lot over the yrs.  In some places I have had a nice group of homeschooling friends; in others I have been on my own.  I have never had IRL friends where discussing homeschooling has actually been a thing except at homeschool support meetings, not friends sociatizing.  We socialize and are friends bc we share common interests and our kids have become friends, not bc our homeschools were similar or that homeschool discussions were part of our interaction.  

Goodness.  I have 8 kids spread over 21 yrs.  We moved internationally and was pregnant with number 5 in a country where I couldn't speak the language.  I got older, had preschoolers, and a newborn and was exhausted.  I have an autistic ds who was extremely volatile during puberty.  I have 3 dyslexics.  So, it hasn't been a utopia where I have sweet children prancing through the flowers in sunshine.  😉

But, equally, I have put immense effort into making our homeschool interesting.  It isn't something I hand off to anyone else.  It is definitely the equivalent of a full-time job.  I put together courses with them that inspire me to want to learn along with them.  If I had had to use certain curriculum/approaches, I would not have been able to homeschool for as long as I have.  If I had to comply with others' schedules or input/output requirements, due dates, assessments, I wouldn't have been able to homeschool for as long as I have.  I create our calendar.  I determine inputs/outputs.  I decide how to assess progress.  And school becomes just a rhythm of our daily life.  (I also try very hard to prevent too many outside commitments bc those stress me out and make me irritable.)

I also protect our breaks.  I definitely take them.  For many yrs, 6-8 weeks of school followed by 1 week off (for creating our next set of plans, drs appts, deep cleaning/shopping, catching up on life, and simple down time) was our best rhythm.  I always take at least 9-10 weeks off for summer and 2 at Christmas and a full week at Thanksgiving.  Breaks help prevent me from getting overwhelmed by all my responsibilities.  

My kids are definitely not always enthusiastic or compliant.  But again, I don't tolerate negativity or constant complaining.  Complaining that comes from lack of understanding and is really just a sign of being overwhelmed.......that is acceptable and really my fault.  Complaining that is simply laziness, otoh, isn't tolerated and they are rewarded for complaining with extra work.  Homeschooling is not a parental affair; it is a family affair.  It takes the entire family to cooperate by fulfilling their responsibilities to make it work.  The kids' responsibility is being a student. One person's negativity is like a contagion.  They all need to understand and respect that they feed off each other's emotions.  Plenty of physical exercise, play time, no screens, prayer time.....balance.....has been a successful approach for our family.

Edited June 18, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[Amoret]

On 6/17/2023 at 10:11 PM, Porridge said:

@Amoret and @8filltheheart, how did / do you maintain your motivation over the years? Do you have a community of other families or moms, or are you mostly on your own? I assume your kids aren't always enthusiastic or compliant - how have you managed those seasons and avoided burn out?

I think so much of it is personality, lifestyle, and parenting philosophy, which gets into foundational aspects of how we relate to our kids and the dynamics of our family, but that isn't very helpful, is it?

More generally,

I keep in mind that this is a path that we have collectively chosen. When my kids were little, DH and I chose this path for them, but as they have gotten older, they have chosen to stay on it. And because it is a choice we have collectively made, we accept the consequences of that, both good and bad. If the downsides ever came to dominate, we would choose otherwise. At one point, when DD13 was probably 7 or 8, we had a pretty bumpy time, and I was ready to look into schools. I would rather choose that path than damage our relationship beyond repair. It didn't come to that, though, because we worked hard together to find a path forward. I spent a huge amount of time trying to pinpoint the root of the problem and doing what I could on my end, and she had to rise to the occasion and shift her attitude.

I think of this as my job. It is a wonderful one, but it also has an opportunity cost. I know well what I am giving up (more money and the things it could buy), and gladly accept the trade-off. It has the parts of my academic job that I loved the most (course planning, learning new things, working with students) and none of the things I didn't love (committee work, stacks of papers to grade, administrative tasks). When we started homeschooling, I read a ton of educational philosophy and curriculum (and still do as the need arises), and I enjoyed the process of picking and choosing among different approaches to education in order to craft one that was just right for us.

I have other intellectual work that I do for myself. I don't miss the pressure to publish that I felt when I was on the tenure track, but I do miss the intellectual culture of the college campus. I also need something of my own. I spent many years in school and have a deep knowledge in some areas. I don't regret leaving my job, and as much as I love homeschooling my kids and managing my home, I need something that engages my mind on a deep level. I have been working for years (during scraps of time) on a set of resources for teaching writing and literature that is just now starting to come together.  It is a long way from being finished, and even though I am pretty confident that it's good, I am no salesperson, so I don't know how I will ever manage to do anything with it. In any case, it has been vital to my own well-being. Plus, my kids see me working and writing and revising, and so they know that I am not asking them to do anything I don't do myself. I also have several hobbies that are enjoyable -- I read a lot, sew, and am trying to rectify the dreadful piano training I had as a kid. I also exercise regularly and do a lot of cooking and baking, so there is plenty of variety and balance, too.

We take advantage of the freedom and flexibility that we have in our days. I have never tried to recreate school. When the kids were little, we worked for only a few hours a day and spent time cooking, biking, playing at the parks, drawing, building, and things like that. Now, they work for hours on self-chosen projects. DS is a very serious musician and he does high level computer programming. I know nothing about either of these areas, but I am learning. DD makes beautiful stuffed animals and is learning to design clothes, draw, and paint very well. DS has been doing HS level work for several years, so he doesn't have six or seven classes to juggle right now -- he can focus and dive deeply into just a few. It is very liberating and fun to imagine a path and then travel it with your kids.

I keep a close eye on how everything is going and rebalance as necessary. I start every year with big plans and scale back, shift, and adjust. My kids are not always content, compliant students, but they are most days. If that wasn't the case, I would rethink our path. Most everything flows along easily in our days, except for math, which they grumble about because it's hard, but also wouldn't change (I've offered). They have a love-hate relationship with AOPS, so if they are getting a bit burned out or tired, I give them a day off from math, and they are delighted. When the kids were little, we didn't take full-stop breaks, but I have learned that they are vital. We keep a light schedule into the summer, but have 6 weeks off through July and into August. We also have 2-3 weeks off in December. I schedule our year in two 16-week semesters with a spring and a fall break, as I did when I was teaching, and this helpful, too.

But it's not always easy.

We have no community to speak of, and this is my foremost point of concern for my kids (though I don't think they would fit in any better in school). When I was in academia, we had a tremendous community of wonderful friends, but after we moved, we lost that and have never found anything even close to the level of support and kindness we experienced there. Part of it is the area that we live in, part of it is us and our general lifestyle, which is counter-cultural in many ways (both kids have computers, but neither has a phone or any social media account, for example). I spent years and much time and effort trying to build a community, but it never really thrived. And now, we have reason to continue to be Covid cautious, which is hampering things further and making me genuinely concerned for college applications in a couple of years. I have no answers. But on the other hand, my kids are doing wonderful work and they are generally content, so we'll have to see how it all plays out.

I don't know if this is helpful. Unlike 8filltheheart, I have not yet graduated any students and I only have two, so I cannot speak with certainty about the success of our path. I do know that I love this life and I know that my kids are thriving in most ways. I have some grave concerns for the future, but I try not to lose sight of the present where right now, I have everything I need to be happy.

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Amoret

[Porridge]

21 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

In some places I have had a nice group of homeschooling friends; in others I have been on my own.  

 

13 hours ago, Amoret said:

We have no community to speak of, and this is my foremost point of concern for my kids (though I don't think they would fit in any better in school). When I was in academia, we had a tremendous community of wonderful friends, but after we moved, we lost that and have never found anything even close to the level of support and kindness we experienced there. Part of it is the area that we live in, part of it is us and our general lifestyle, which is counter-cultural in many ways

We have no community now. Post-pandemic has been hard. 

13 hours ago, Amoret said:

I do know that I love this life and I know that my kids are thriving in most ways. I have some grave concerns for the future, but I try not to lose sight of the present where right now, I have everything I need to be happy.

My kids are both doing really well. One still has some struggles, but has made a huge amount of progress in the past year. That progress came at great cost to me - I guess that is to be expected as a homeschool mom. As you mentioned, there is an opportunity cost to choosing this path. I feel like I'm in the equivalent of a homeschool mid-life crisis.

How do you think about these grave concerns for the future? Are they for yourself or for your kids? If this is getting too personal, feel free to ignore.

 

I did not mean to derail the OP's thread and will circle back to the original question --

I actually wrote a mission, vision, value way back when we started homeschooling. It induces major eye rolling for me now 🙂 .

In practice, our educational priorities have been 

• (Like @8filltheheart ) To live out our faith before our children and nurture those beliefs
• To follow the children's interests in learning
• To foster a sense of self-efficacy

and this one, in retrospect, has been a litmus test for a lot of decisions:

• to make choices in learning and life that facilitate health (getting adequate rest, exercise, good diet, time to serve the community, etc. - stuff that usually goes by the wayside in our area's fast-paced lifestyle). This has mostly looked like saying no to doing too much stuff -- too many academics, too many activities, etc.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Porridge

[8filltheheart]

@Porridge I have no information about the age of your kids, but burnout is real and you need to make sure you take care of yourself.  Non-functioning mama means no homeschool.   When I have felt that way, I have given myself complete permission to nurture me.  That might mean an hr of quiet time for everyone during the day so that I can have an hr to myself for reading, napping, crafting.....whatever it is that I want to do.  For me, it also means being outside in nature.  It is really hot here, so that means early morning or evening strolls or hiking in the shade.  It means curling up with a book and a cup of tea at night.  It might mean simplifying some aspects of our life.....simpler meals, dropping some activities, etc.  

[Shoeless]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:46 PM, cintinative said:

I can see that, but I am also disturbed by the number of facebook posts in homeschool groups:  "looking for 9th grade English, science, history, etc." with no particulars given.  It is as if they can't be bothered to do the research to figure out what to use. It seems to be the ready fire aim method of homeschool planning and it scares me.  IMO, there should be serious thought given to curriculum choices. 

Those posters have learned they don't need to do the research. Every post like that has 20+ responses that say nothing more than "AOPS!", "Thinkwell!", "Easy Peasy!" 

FYI, Thinkwell seems to be the latest and greatest in my fb groups, which gives me a knee-jerk "Never Thinkwell" response. It's interesting to see curriculum trends rise and fall.  The brand-conscious name-dropping is fascinating to me. 

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, Porridge said:

 

We have no community now. Post-pandemic has been hard. 

We're your community now ❤️ 

[Clemsondana]

Some of my goals for my kids are directly academic.  I wanted them to be fluent in the things that they know, not just have enough surface understanding to 'pass the class', whatever that looks like (do well on an assessment, write a paper, etc), and then forget the material.  I wanted learning to be enjoyable.  I don't feel obligated to make it entertaining - they aren't passive recipients - but pleasant, using interesting materials, providing a nice environment in which to work, working with their preferences as I learned them (one would happily read about anything, the other liked hands-on in K-2), planning interesting field trips, etc.  I wanted to respect their time, which didn't mean looking for quick material but did mean that we didn't do busywork.  Once they could do something, we moved on.  It was my job to figure out when practice was needed and when practice was just filling in pages.  I want them to have the opportunity to progress as far as their abilities and interests took them.  I wanted them to have a solid foundation in basic academics.  In my volunteer work, I had seen so many kids who couldn't do something because they lacked foundational skills, so I wanted to make sure those were strong.

I also had non-academic goals that weren't necessarily about homeschooling, but because the kids were at home they were heavily influenced by our family.  It was important that we be involved in a church and that we not just be 'consumers'.  The kids have seen me volunteer, and at times have worked with me or volunteered on their own.  We have more schedule flexibility to do this than most people.  I've taught them bits of cultural knowledge that are useful in our context.  For us, that includes the rules to common sports, bits about genres of music and various instruments, etc.  I've also encouraged them to choose activities that they love and talked some about how to make them lifelong if they want to continue once they age out of the youth level (coaching or umping, adult leagues, scout leader, church performer, etc).  We also explicitly talk about code switching and how you can be yourself while interacting with people in all sorts of different contexts.  My older often talks in Shakespearean English with the academic competition friends, but you can't talk that way at the ball field.  It's not about snobbery, it's about it being hard to interpret words that you aren't expecting to hear (just like I'd have to stop an process the different phrasings from my Scottish and Indian colleagues when I worked).  Since communication is important, we teach this explicitly, especially to my kid who is less likely to naturally mirror others.  One of our homeschooling goals was that our kids be able to interact with a  variety of people, and while it isn't necessarily their natures to be huge extroverts, the nature of activities for homeschoolers, where you have occasionally overlapping but different groups for everything that you do, has helped with this.  

[Shoeless]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:46 PM, cintinative said:

I can see that, but I am also disturbed by the number of facebook posts in homeschool groups:  "looking for 9th grade English, science, history, etc." with no particulars given.  It is as if they can't be bothered to do the research to figure out what to use. It seems to be the ready fire aim method of homeschool planning and it scares me.  IMO, there should be serious thought given to curriculum choices. 

Thinking on this more, I suspect that these.requests are a reflection of the education many have received. No deeper thinking, just quickly find an answer to plug in and move on. 

[Not_a_Number]

Great question. 

Here are our goals: 

* To be excellent critical thinkers, capable of deep analysis. We use both books and mathematics for this. 

* To be good writers -- that is, to be able to express ideas clearly and eloquently. (I don't have fiction writing goals -- kids either take to this or do not.)

* To know how to learn and keep learning: to know how to find out what inspires you as well as to figure out how to find motivation for the things that don't. 

* To have the opportunity to read (or otherwise engage with) with lots of books. One of my kids prefers audiobooks if she has the choice, but it all works for me. 

* To have the opportunity to learn a musical instrument or musical instruments. 

* To be quality human beings: considerate friends, mindful family members, and so on. 

* To learn to exist in the world: to figure out the tasks involved in running a household, having a job, etc. 

* To know how to manage themselves and their emotions, so that they don't get in their own ways more than they have to. (This is hard with my kids. They are highly gifted but also emotionally difficult.) 

I'm sure there are more, but that's what I got right now! 

 

[cintinative]

16 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

Thinking on this more, I suspect that these.requests are a reflection of the education many have received. No deeper thinking, just quickly find an answer to plug in and move on. 

Possibly. Also, there are a group of homeschoolers who started during the pandemic suddenly and there was a lot of this, and for whatever reason, there continues to be a trend of it.

I haven't answered the OP's question about educational priorities.  To be honest, if I had our homeschooling journey to do over, I would change things.  

I have held my kids to a high level of academics and to a fault when they were young.  We should have been at the park more and doing less school.  Now that they are in high school, I am learning I need to trust more in the foundation that we laid in the earlier years and hold these years a bit more loosely, letting them follow interests more and worrying less about how "classical" we are.  I find more often than not, I am the cog in the machine, the one who is holding things too tightly and not pivoting when my kids need me to.  I have been humbled by how hard it is for me at times to release my plans (especially the hours of planning) when things are not going like they should.  I can be quite tightfisted about those things. So my advice to anyone reading this who still early on in their journey is to really enjoy those early days, really enjoy your kids, and when they get to high school, be prepared to hold things loosely and trust it will work out okay.

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I have been humbled by how hard it is for me at times to release my plans (especially the hours of planning) when things are not going like they should. 

Me, too. It's hard to let go of the reins. 

[ScoutTN]

13 hours ago, Shoeless said:

Thinking on this more, I suspect that these.requests are a reflection of the education many have received. No deeper thinking, just quickly find an answer to plug in and move on. 

These people are “refugee” homeschoolers. Reactive, not proactive, largely school-at-home. As you and @cintinative have said, they have not thought through an educational philosophy. 

[8filltheheart]

15 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

These people are “refugee” homeschoolers. Reactive, not proactive, largely school-at-home. As you and @cintinative have said, they have not thought through an educational philosophy. 

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

Edited June 20, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[Clemsondana]

56 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

I know that we're at least 5 years into the 'new family contact' people at co-op saying that they'll do a tour and have families ask 'So if we do this once/week we're good for school?' and they  have to explain that an elementary schooler coming to a class where they learn about animals, a PE class, an art class, and a 'read a book and do a craft' class once/week is fun enrichment, not a week's worth of school.  Or they know that we offer enrichment for younger kids but ask where they go to get their curriculum for 7th grade (not asking about resources - asking about going to pick it up, like maybe the county hands it out in a bag).  There's nothing wrong with people who want 'school in a box' - it's not my preference, but it can be OK - but I can't imagine having done so little research that I thought I could just swing by the county school office and pick it up, rather than understanding that I needed to look for a resource to buy it from.  

Our long-time people at co-op have talked about different shifts over time.  In the beginning (before my time) it was mostly people homeschooling because schools were a bad fit, or religious homeschoolers, or philosophical homeschoolers.  As I was starting they got a wave of academic homeschoolers, which changed the co-op offerings a bit because they were fine with fun classes for youngers, but if they were going to have their older kid take an outsourced class they wanted it to be rigorous.  At this point, I would say that most of our middle/high academic classes are at or well above the level of local schools, and several of the private school umbrellas automatically grant honors credit to them. But, now we are having a different group.  Some of our new families are still wanting solid academics, but a lot are just looking for easy classes.  We're having a bit of a struggle, because having worked hard to get good teachers and having gotten positive feedback from our college kids who say that they felt very well prepared, we don't want to back off.  Many of us already grade differently - I know which kids are struggling 'C for graduation' kids and which are looking for honors/AP level, and I interact with their work accordingly to give them what they need.  But, we don't know what to do with 'we just don't want to work' families.  

[mathmarm]

I don't know that I'm qualified to post as I don't have an over-arching, well thought out K-12 educational priority. In our homeschool, we decided to focus on life a phase at a time, so for elementary (because we haven't gotten farther than that) our end-game is to have our middle schoolers ready to consider and pursue different educational tracts that interest them, we want our kids to be superb-people and academically at the head of the pack so our educational priorities are

• Solid Childhood -- lots of free play, lots of experiences, lots of interactions with people from all walks of life, lots of time with extended family, lots of time to just be, lots of making things, lots of being a member of the larger community and meeting/interacting with adults
• Orientated towards Daily Life Skills -- able to competently engage with and participate in home life and basic errands
• American Cultural Education -- robust knowledge of games, songs "old fashioned" activities/hobbies from my Generations childhoods
• Handicraft Skills -- Its important to us that they're learning to use their hands, eyes and minds in-sync and simultaneously for joy and exploration so they learn to sew, knit, carve, shape, fold, and make things.
• Physically Competent and Skilled-- able to perform calisthenic routines run, jump, bend, lift, flex, hold, flip and control their bodies joyfully and intentionally. Competent in the basics in the foundations of parkour, soccer, racquet sports, gymnastics and a martial art
• Visually literate -- strong drawing skills, able to use drawing in the acquisition of knowledge, skills and as an act to express themselves.
• Knowledge Acquisition
  • A solid-knowledge base in geography, anatomy & physiology, US civics, history, science and sports that allows them to listen to and understand/take from the news and adult conversations
• High Quality Academic Skills
  • able to read fluently for knowledge, joy or instruction
  • neat penmanship
    • cursive
    • manuscript
  • mastery and fluency in arithmetic of whole numbers, rational numbers as well as polynomials
    • we tend to aim at 3+ grade levels ahead in math
• To be able to Share in  the family joy of Mathematics and Science discussion and exploration physically and symbolically

[FreyaO]

4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

There are many places and circles where to say you are interested in academics has become taboo. 

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

Yes, definitely. Pioneers were first, settlers have the same mindset but benefit from legal status, curriculum written by/for homeschoolers etc, refugees do not share the same mindset. 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Yes, definitely. Pioneers were first, settlers have the same mindset but benefit from legal status, curriculum written by/for homeschoolers etc, refugees do not share the same mindset. 

I am personally not speaking about crisis homeschoolers that have been thrust into homeschooling due to radical circumstances. I am talking about regular ol' planning to homeschool homeschoolers.  

[Not_a_Number]

10 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

We started homeschooling 5 years ago, before COVID, and I know that most people were using prefabricated stuff at that point. People still look at me like I have two heads when I say I don't use almost any curriculum, and most of them started homeschooling before COVID. 

At least in NYC, where we are, COVID homeschoolers aren't more likely to want school at home than other homeschoolers. Actually, we've had a COVID homeschooler join our co-op recently, and they kept homeschooling after COVID precisely because they loved the freedom to do what interested the boy that virtual schooling had afforded them. (I assume they quickly checked the necessary boxes for their "actual school" and then did whatever they wanted the rest of the day.) 

I do see a greater tendency to want to use pods and "accredited teachers" in COVID homeschoolers. But pre-made curriculum? Not so much. 

[Clarita]

11 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Yes, but this phenomenon is not only 3 yrs old.  It was the larger trend in general even before covid.  

I've also seen homeschooling become more accepted and more people consider it, even people who ultimately choose B&M school. There may be more people homeschooling not for a better education but for other reasons, time flexibility, logistics, etc.

I don't know my MIL and some of her friends are a bit envious of the curriculum we get to choose from nowadays.  Knowing the age of their kids (my age or older) this would have been decades ago. From the way they talk they just got some curriculum (there wasn't much to choose from according to them) and they flipped to the next page. I'm pretty sure they didn't join any public online homeschool forum or Facebook group to talk about it because I mean most people just didn't join public online chat in the 90's as readily. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Clarita
Not saying there isn't an overall trend, but it's interesting differences between this online life and my real life.

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

But pre-made curriculum? Not so much. 

I must not be communicating very well, bc my POV has absolutely nothing to do with prepackaged curriculum.  I don't know anyone (and haven't for a very long time) who homeschools the way I do.  I am talking about the default being free, easy, cheap, independent, self-grading, little parental supervision (if any), etc with no real effort exerted to find out much about anything.  There seems to be as much thought given as making the decision to drive through McDonald's for dinner. The questions being asked are not about approach, quality, depth, level.  (T4L, Power, Acellus, Easy Peasy.....those are 4 main options recommended over and over, though the wiping out histories of work done might cause some to 2nd guess......but memories are short and ease of use demand is extremely high.)

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I must not be communicating very well, bc my POV has absolutely nothing to do with prepackaged curriculum.  I don't know anyone (and haven't for a very long time) who homeschools the way I do.  I am talking about the default being free, easy, cheap, independent, self-grading, little parental supervision (if any), etc with no real effort exerted to find out much about anything.  There seems to be as much thought given as making the decision to drive through McDonald's for dinner. The questions being asked are not about approach, quality, depth, level.  (T4L, Power, Acellus, Easy Peasy.....those are 4 main options recommended over and over, though the wiping out histories of work done might cause some to 2nd guess......but memories are short and ease of use demand is extremely high.)

I guess what I was saying is that the COVID homeschoolers I know fit this profile less well than the homeschoolers I met before -- that is, 5 years ago, when we started. So I'm agreeing with you. 

I think I'm the one not communicating very well. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Clarita]

27 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I am talking about the default being free, easy, cheap, independent, self-grading, little parental supervision (if any), etc with no real effort exerted to find out much about anything.  There seems to be as much thought given as making the decision to drive through McDonald's for dinner. The questions being asked are not about approach, quality, depth, level.  (T4L, Power, Acellus, Easy Peasy.....those are 4 main options recommended over and over, though the wiping out histories of work done might cause some to 2nd guess......but memories are short and ease of use demand is extremely high.)

I'm not seeing that in person so much. Most of my homeschooling friends are trying to do their best by their kids even if they choose curriculum and methods that I wouldn't. However in some of the facebook groups, the talk of can my 6 year old do this curriculum independently does make me hope it's not really representative of the population in general.

[lewelma]

There are 2 main reasons why I think NZ homeschooling is not tracking like the US. 1) there are not any New Zealand specific online programs, so you have to use international ones. And international ones feel culturally different so a lot of people don't like them. 2) NZ homeschoolers must apply for an 'exemption' from the government to homeschool.  This exemption is a 6-10 page single spaced paper answering serious questions on:

Your educational philosophy,

What you plan to teach use in all 7 learning areas (you cannot just list curriculum),

Your timetable for a day or a week (there is a way for unschoolers to handle this),

a narrative description of how you would teach a specific unit in the curriculum,

how you will assess that your child is making progress (this cannot just be tests),

how you will socialize you kids,

how you will use the community resources to augment your kid's education, and

how you will deal with learning disabilities if your kid has any. 

The readers are tough. And most people don't get their exemption with their first go and have to make adjustments and resubmit.  This process basically kicks out a bunch of would be homeschoolers who don't want to actually do the thinking required to be completely responsible for their child's education.

Edited June 21, 2023 by lewelma

[Porridge]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

 This exemption is a 6-10 page single spaced paper answering serious questions on:

……

The readers are tough. And most people don't get their exemption with their first go and have to make adjustments and resubmit.  This process basically kicks out a bunch of would be homeschoolers who don't want to actually do the thinking required to be completely responsible for their child's education.

Sounds like a good forcing function. 

It would be really helpful for me to articulate answers to those questions, just for myself. 

[Shoeless]

On 6/20/2023 at 8:56 PM, 8filltheheart said:

I must not be communicating very well, bc my POV has absolutely nothing to do with prepackaged curriculum.  I don't know anyone (and haven't for a very long time) who homeschools the way I do.  I am talking about the default being free, easy, cheap, independent, self-grading, little parental supervision (if any), etc with no real effort exerted to find out much about anything.  There seems to be as much thought given as making the decision to drive through McDonald's for dinner. The questions being asked are not about approach, quality, depth, level.  (T4L, Power, Acellus, Easy Peasy.....those are 4 main options recommended over and over, though the wiping out histories of work done might cause some to 2nd guess......but memories are short and ease of use demand is extremely high.)

I see lots of recs for T4L, Acellus, Miacademy, Thinkwell. People around here have given up on EP because it requires too much effort on the part of the parent. 

Online, every recommendation for high school is something from an online provider.  There was a post today in one of my fb groups, asking for curriculum recs for an Honors or AP level class without exam. Every single recommendation was for an online provider, (at $500 per class).  "Use XYZ course provider! They're the best!"  I went rogue and suggested they buy the AP level textbook and have their student write some papers.  

I dunno; it makes me feel a little nutty to be the lone weirdo still using books. 

How do people afford this? If I had an extra $500 to spend on *one* class, I would sign my student up for DE at the CC and not fiddle around with expensive zoom classes that won't lead to college credit. We can learn the material at home for far, far less than $500. 

This isn't a dig at the course provider; their content is probably great and several people commented that their students were well prepared for the exam after the class.  The default setting for home education is now "Outsourced, online", and that's the part that has me scratching my head and doubting myself sometimes. 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

9 hours ago, Shoeless said:

  The default setting for home education is now "Outsourced, online", and that's the part that has me scratching my head and doubting myself sometimes. 

I would just encourage you to not have doubt in yourself as primary teacher.  I outsource very little.  I also homeschool my oldest granddaughter, and I was just talking to my ds about the fact that this yr she is not using anything consumable, so they don't need to buy anything at all.  Cheap yr for them!  

FWIW, I really enjoy homeschooling my older kids.  Discussing things with them is part of the joy of homeschooling.  Outsourcing everything really makes homeschooling nothing more than school done at home.  No fun in that!

[ScoutTN]

On 6/20/2023 at 1:42 PM, 8filltheheart said:

I am personally not speaking about crisis homeschoolers that have been thrust into homeschooling due to radical circumstances. I am talking about regular ol' planning to homeschool homeschoolers.  

Yes. Plenty of them are essentially “refugees” in their mindset and how they function, even if they do not see themselves that way. 

[Shoeless]

16 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

I would just encourage you to not have doubt in yourself as primary teacher.  I outsource very little.  I also homeschool my oldest granddaughter, and I was just talking to my ds about the fact that this yr she is not using anything consumable, so they don't need to buy anything at all.  Cheap yr for them!  

FWIW, I really enjoy homeschooling my older kids.  Discussing things with them is part of the joy of homeschooling.  Outsourcing everything really makes homeschooling nothing more than school done at home.  No fun in that!

Thank you for the encouragement. We don't plan to outsource very much; I simply can't afford $500+ per class if I also want to send him to college and keep him out of debt.

Outsourcing everything isn't my idea of fun, either. I like DIY-ing everything and finding everything I need at the library or the thrift store. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Shoeless

[Nm.]

I know someone who uses self grading/online starting in Pk/K.  For what it’s worth I am really impressed with what they do outside of “school”.  Since mom has so much more time and energy they do a LOT of interest led learning and projects.  Including real life skills.  Mom has developed professional level skills in multiple areas (baking, sewing, etc) and they are constantly learning new things together.  I’ve learned not to judge or think too highly of how I’m doing things.  There’s opportunity costs either way.  I’m not sure that there’s any overwhelming evidence saying that paper instruction is better than video/online.  If there is I’d love to see it so I can further justify all my expenses (mainly books).  I choose paper- but possibly to their detriment.  Who knows?  I spent thousands on Orton-gillingham stuff.  You know what really pushed my ds9 (and also dd6) with dyslexia along?  Lalilo.  

Edited June 23, 2023 by Nm.

[8filltheheart]

Nothing will ever convince me that passive instruction.....it can be "paper" just as much as "computer"....provides a quality education. I am a firm believer in Bloom's taxonomy and  that there are multiple different levels of learning. Knowledge is one, but it is the absolute lowest level thinking skill. Thinking requires  engagement. Engagement requires interaction with ideas-discussion/challenge/exploration-beyond simple input/output.  

And, not ironically, all that goes directly  back to my OP in this thread. Why is there interest in classical education? Definitely not bc of Latin or Greek or cyclical history. It is bc of the minds it produced.....Aristotle, Plato, St Augustine, the Founding Fathers, etc. Minds that could analyze and formulate ideas based on logic and reasoning. That type of mind requires mental training. Otherwise you end up with weak thinking skills.

Ironically, I have posted over the yrs that I do not believe a real classic education is possible at home bc it requires real master teachers in their subjects which most of us arent bc we ourselves were not classically educated. My kids receive only a shadow of what was once a posdible education.

That said, the slope between deliberate, engaged interaction and passive education is steep. Not all educations are equal. And, no, it isnt the list of subjects that matters at the core.

[Nm.]

FTR: when I said paper- I am referring to materials that are not passive.  However- Similarly- I have friends who use passive paper programs who also use that extra energy and time to pursue worthwhile interests.  Both use passive instruction to get their 3rs done.  I’ve never tried it, I just think there are probably benefits that aren’t readily seen on the surface.  For example- what they learn on the surface level (IE bloom’s taxonomy) - is that being engaged with outside of the program for that deeper learning?  Some of the great thinkers didn’t have an outstanding education- but were self motivated and in their free time used whatever materials they could get their hands on to learn.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Nm.

[8filltheheart]

I personally doubt it.  People who hand off their kids' education to a computer program or box are rarely educating themselves with what is being covered in the program or the box.  Being a good educator takes a lot of effort and time.  It takes engaging with the materials yourself and understanding the educational objectives before a student even sees the material.  It takes interacting with the student to ensure they understand the material and asking them to formulate and articulate their thoughts.  It requires open-ended questions that they need to think through in order to be able to respond independently (not questions that have an "in print" answer that they recite).

Yes, there are innumerable skills and areas of expertise outside of academic learning that are valuable.  Sewing, cooking, automotive repair, plumbing.....not disagreeing there.  But, I don't see those skills as pertaining to this thread's discussion. 

FWIW, I think it was @Clarita who asked about what books influenced our homeschool.  I responded with Bloom's taxonomy and Ignatian educational philosophy.  I included a free link to The Four Hallmarks of a Jesuit Pedagogy.  Teaching should be intentional. I think the abysmal quality of education in this country reflects that good teaching requires more than the textbook or a computer screen.  We are a country of teachers who don't know how to teach producing students who are not only lacking analytical skills but basic knowledge (we as a country haven't even managed to succeed with the the lowest level of learning.).  Not sure what more evidence is needed that the how's of teaching matter. 

[Nm.]

Nm.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Nm.

[Nm.]

.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Nm.
Repeating myself

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Nm. said:

I just know the mom has pursued her interests and has given them an example of how to be a life long learner outside of what curriculum she uses- which I think pertains a lot to OP discussion.

It isn't an either/or scenario.  You can do both.....engage academically with your kids and be an example of being a life long learner (and even teach them non-academic skills like sewing, cooking, woodworking, etc).  

[Jean in Newcastle]

My educational priority is a mind that grapples with ideas.  But I also recognize that to get to that priority, we do have to learn some foundational skills.  But I don't want to turn the mind off in the pursuit of the foundational skills.  So busy work is out to me.  (Practice and review if truly needed is not busy work.)  Young children are the ones who are learning the foundational skills and for them, the social interaction of learning is equally important, in my opinion.  So no, I would not hand them over to a workbook or a computer program unless the material were taught first and it truly was for practice for very short periods of time.

Both my kids did do some "independent study" when they were older.  This wasn't because I was checked out as a teacher.  It was because they had the interest and skills and drive to dig deeper on their own.  They had outgrown me in these subjects.  But if they got stuck, I searched out experts in the field to help them (even if the expert might be something like a calculus tutor).  I didn't just let them flounder, though I also let them wrestle with things at times on their own and saw their satisfaction at solving their own problems.