What purpose does this forum serve for you?

[lewelma]

6 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

You're calling out "off-putting" in an "I statement"? It just means "unpleasant, disconcerting, or repellent". I do, and am allowed to, find her posts unpleasant. I'm not trying to constrain her right to post. I'm not reporting her posts. I'm simply reporting how they make me feel: disconcerted and repelled.

Let's remember, she is the one who just a few posts up said (perhaps even boasted reading between the lines) that, "I have to say, I do have trouble in real life with how mouthy I am, too 😂."

I don't have a reputation for being mouthy or mean in real life, and after a decade on this forum I don't think I have that reputation here either.

No, not really the 'off putting' part. The hyperbole that I was quoting was cut off, and that was the part that I found tough.

While on the other hand, nothing the rest of us morons suggest could possibly be useful or relevant to the question you asked, because we clearly are not "spiky" like you. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by lewelma

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I'm so glad that I could be helpful. It is so hard, I think, to look in to your own life as an outsider. When you are in the middle of things, your are immersed.

I find that your approach has always been to have an honest soul-searching question, gather information from the hive, completely disagree with everyone because it is so hard to see outside of your own experience, but then you store these comments and ideas in the back of your mind to mull over. The next step seems to be that you think for days and weeks about what people have said, and then change your mind and find some novel way of combining your own thoughts with those of others into a unique solution for you and your children. Seems like the hive is a critical part of this soul-searching process for you.

And you know, my epiphany from this year is that EVERYONE does this. No one really changes their mind right away. When you push people, you actually make them block out your input because they feel it's an attack. And then they don't hear your input as something that's about your experience but merely as threatening. 

And the other thing I've learned is that some people will take lots and lots of input that's NOT an attack as threatening, no matter how impersonal you make it, and that has to do with family of origin issues, and anxiety, and mental health, and all sorts of things you can't control. 

And for me, letting go of the idea that I can affect what someone does with what I say has just been great. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

The experience of being hurt by a post can raise the healthy question of whether we also unintentionally hurt others by some of our posts.

And if so, I don't think the answer is "oh well I guess I'm a pill."

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

The experience of being hurt by a post can raise the healthy question of whether we also unintentionally hurt others by some of our posts.

And if so, I don't think the answer is "oh well I guess I'm a pill."

Of course I can. 

But I'm not always responsible for someone else's reaction to me, either. That's why I separated it out upthread. There's a difference between saying that I get in people's faces too much (yep, I do, and I shouldn't) and saying that I should stop acting like I believe the things I believe. 

[SKL]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Of course I can. 

But I'm not always responsible for someone else's reaction to me, either. That's why I separated it out upthread. There's a difference between saying that I get in people's faces too much (yep, I do, and I shouldn't) and saying that I should stop acting like I believe the things I believe. 

Curious what post implied the bolded.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Curious what post implied the bolded.

There's been quite a lot of commentary on the fact that I'm off-puttingly confident and overgeneralize. And yeah, I know, but that's actually how I think. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Melissa Louise]

The world would be boring if we were all the same. 

OP is not a particular 'problem'. We've had problem posters, I've been one, and I don't see her as in that category.

Use the ignore button if she's not your speed. 

 

 

 

[wendyroo]

4 minutes ago, lewelma said:

No, not really the 'off putting' part. The hyperbole that I was quoting was cut off, and that was the part that I found tough.

While on the other hand, nothing the rest of us morons suggest could possibly be useful or relevant to the question you asked, because we clearly are not "spiky" like you. 

That is an accurate representation of how her posts often read to me. In fact, someone else called her on exactly that sentiment in this thread already.

And the "spiky" came directly from her own quote...where she used it to justify why she was allowed to be mouthy about bring right because she (unlike others?) knows things and posts about things she has thought about a lot. 🙄

Quote

It's more that I'm really spiky in terms of things I know and I don't, and I tend to post about things I've thought about a lot, and that small set of things I have a lot of strong opinions about. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

I'm finding this really interesting, though. Because definitely part of what people are saying is that being confident about things that don't have to do with me is inappropriate. And that definitely corresponds to what I've found in real life (which is why I filter myself MUCH more in real life, except in certain circumstances, but again, the megaphone part of forums makes that very tricky, and I don't want to spend all my time in small groups.)

But it does make me wonder what the purpose of forums for me would be if it's a real problem for people if I'm overconfident. It's kind of my outlet for that. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, wendyroo said:

That is an accurate representation of how her posts often read to me. In fact, someone else called her on exactly that sentiment in this thread already.

And the "spiky" came directly from her own quote...where she used it to justify why she was allowed to be mouthy about bring right because she (unlike others?) knows things and posts about things she has thought about a lot. 🙄

I mean, I'm allowed to do things allowed by the terms and conditions of the site 😂. Who's going to "not allow" me to do anything here? I'm not being rude. 

I am who I am, and if people don't want to read my posts, they don't have to. What other answer could there possibly be? 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

There's been quite a lot of commentary on the fact that I'm off-puttingly confident and overgeneralize. And yeah, I know, but that's actually how I think. 

I don't think they are saying your confidence is off-putting.  I think they are saying it's off-putting when your responses to their well-meant suggestions imply "you should shut up since you know nothing about this / about me."  Can you see the difference?

Nobody here is stupid.  But even if we all were, ... would it be that hard to say to yourself, "sigh, they don't get it" and refrain from typing?

Which brings up another point.  There is no requirement that you respond in writing to everything, whether you agree or disagree.  It's OK to just let someone's comment stand.

Think about some of the most respected people here.  Don't you think they come across as confident?  Do they get attacked for that?

[Terabith]

I think it's one thing to be completely self confident about your own path.  

It's another thing to be completely self confident about SOMEONE ELSE'S PATH and to assert repeatedly that you are right about their life/ child/ family/ situation and everyone else, including the original poster herself, is wrong.  

It's a frustrating dynamic because it has occurred so many times over such a long period of time.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

I don't think they are saying your confidence is off-putting.  I think they are saying it's off-putting when your responses to their well-meant suggestions imply "you should shut up since you know nothing about this / about me."  Can you see the difference?

Now, I will say that I don't ever want people to shut up. That's rarely the text or subtext of me disagreeing with people. If anything, I'm pathologically interested in talking. 

[Ausmumof3]

Initially it was homeschooling curriculum that brought me here, as it was one of the few free open discussion forums that have good talk and I was looking for maths. Found and stuck with Singapore and it was so worth it! I’d never heard of WTM and only bought the book after being here a few years. I did get tonnes of good recommendations. I was spending less time here when Covid19 hit and it was a useful resource. It’s also one of the few places I can have a conversation and find people more intelligent and educated than myself who are willing to go deep into stuff, where irl I always feel like I have to tone my nerdy interests way down. Plus the written format allows for more depth and you can go back to stuff where a verbal conversation moves on a long way. It can have drawbacks of course as with any kind of intense discussion. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Terabith said:

I think it's one thing to be completely self confident about your own path.  

It's another thing to be completely self confident about SOMEONE ELSE'S PATH and to assert repeatedly that you are right about their life/ child/ family/ situation and everyone else, including the original poster herself, is wrong.  

It's a frustrating dynamic because it has occurred so many times over such a long period of time.  

Right. But given that I'm the kind of jerk who IS confident about things like that sometimes... is the answer that I ought to go hang out somewhere else? 

[wendyroo]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, it's scanning as aggressive to me and lewelma, I guess? I'm not sure what it is we're supposed to do about that. That's how it FEELS to US. 

And you are absolutely allowed to feel that way.

I am not arguing that my post didn't hurt your feelings. Or that it didn't feel aggressive.

I will maintain that it was civil and did not break any board rules. In fact, speaking of board rules, the first is "Be Humble" and the fourth is "Don't Insist on the Last Word"...and I didn't think I am the one who tends to stumble over the edge of those.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, wendyroo said:

And you are absolutely allowed to feel that way.

I am not arguing that my post didn't hurt your feelings. Or that it didn't feel aggressive.

I will maintain that it was civil and did not break any board rules. In fact, speaking of board rules, the first is "Be Humble" and the fourth is "Don't Insist on the Last Word"...and I didn't think I am the one who tends to stumble over the edge of those.

Sure, fine, I agree, you didn't break any rules. You're absolutely allowed to hurt my feelings and not mind much. It's unfriendly, but such is life. 

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Right. But given that I'm the kind of jerk who IS confident about things like that sometimes... is the answer that I ought to go hang out somewhere else? 

Nobody is saying you need to go hang out somewhere else.  But is it remotely possible to maybe keep in mind the thought that, "I could always be wrong" is a possibility, especially in regards to someone else's life?  

I mean, I just don't see the only option to this issue is shutting up and going away.  Modulating your responses and thoughts on people/ events/ posts seems like it might be a viable path forward, too?

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, I'm allowed to do things allowed by the terms and conditions of the site 😂. Who's going to "not allow" me to do anything here? I'm not being rude. 

I am who I am, and if people don't want to read my posts, they don't have to. What other answer could there possibly be? 

OK but ... you posted earlier that someone else's post hurt you / was "mean," that you are sensitive etc.  Yet you don't seem to consider whether your own posts have the exact same effect on others.  And this actually happens often.  Most people just shut down rather than call you on it.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Terabith said:

Nobody is saying you need to go hang out somewhere else.  But is it remotely possible to maybe keep in mind the thought that, "I could always be wrong" is a possibility, especially in regards to someone else's life?  

I mean, I just don't see the only option to this issue is shutting up and going away.  Modulating your responses and thoughts on people/ events/ posts seems like it might be a viable path forward, too?

I feel how I feel. I don't plan to change it to oblige people on this site. 

I can TREAT people differently but I will not take suggestions to FEEL differently. There's a vast gulf between those. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Right. But given that I'm the kind of jerk who IS confident about things like that sometimes... is the answer that I ought to go hang out somewhere else? 

God, please don't. I hate it when the boards go quiet and it's all laundry threads 🙂

Otoh, it's good for me when the boards go quiet and it's all laundry threads...so maybe? (Not really, only if you feel it's not serving you anymore, which it might not - most posters don't want a debate board, and I'd say that is fair enough - it's a chat board. It's meant for laundry talk).

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

OK but ... you posted earlier that someone else's post hurt you / was "mean," that you are sensitive etc.  Yet you don't seem to consider whether your own posts have the exact same effect on others.  And this actually happens often.  Most people just shut down rather than call you on it.

Yes, I'm sure I hurt people's feelings sometimes. I'm not actually unaware of that. 

Frankly, I'd rather people called me on it at the time rather than stew and then sound resentful on totally unrelated threads 😂. It's a far healthier way to live, both online and offline.

[fraidycat]

Keeping in mind that I don't read all the posts on this forum and am missing a lot of the backstory or history re: Not_a_Number's posting style or "overconfidence", I'm about to express an opinion based on my own life experiences and observations. Feel free to ignore or use as food for thought as you please.

In my opinion and experience, strident arguments and the need to be right or have the last word are not a sign of "over-confidence", but a lack of confidence and need for affirmation of some sort. 
 

I am not "diagnosing" that this is what is happening here, because again I'm lacking context, but personally and experientially, confidence does not require agreement from anyone else.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

God, please don't. I hate it when the boards go quiet and it's all laundry threads 🙂

Otoh, it's good for me when the boards go quiet and it's all laundry threads...so maybe? (Not really, only if you feel it's not serving you anymore, which it might not - most posters don't want a debate board, and I'd say that is fair enough - it's a chat board. It's meant for laundry talk).

Hmmm, is this thread upsetting you? Because if so, I'm sorry. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, fraidycat said:

Keeping in mind that I don't read all the posts on this forum and am missing a lot of the backstory or history re: Not_a_Number's posting style or "overconfidence", I'm about to express an opinion based on my own life experiences and observations. Feel free to ignore or use as food for thought as you please.

In my opinion and experience, strident arguments and the need to be right or have the last word are not a sign of "over-confidence", but a lack of confidence and need for affirmation of some sort. 

I am not "diagnosing" that this is what is happening here, because again I'm lacking context, but personally and experientially, confidence does not require agreement from anyone else.

Generically true, yes. 

I think people both object to things I post that I'm actually confident about and also the things I'm defensively fake confident about.

Which is maybe a decent argument that it's more about manner than anything else. 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

Just using this as a jumping-off point... there are posters here - and again, I don't know if you @Not_a_Number are one of them - who will ask for opinions/advice and then when people give them, come up with ways the respondents are wrong. 

I mean, what's the point then? If I ask for advice, I'll just thank people for it even if it's not what I wanted or needed. At least I hope I do! 

People don't always communicate perfectly. 

Jumping off of your jump off. I think all of the honest, uncensored advice and opinions are one of the top benefits of this board for me. I seem to be missing the gene that allows me to get really upset by an online disagreement. For me, it holds none of the stress of a real-time debate but all of the interest. I think it’s so healthy to get opinions outside of your geographic bubble. 

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I'm sure I hurt people's feelings sometimes. I'm not actually unaware of that. 

Frankly, I'd rather people called me on it at the time rather than stew and then sound resentful on totally unrelated threads 😂. It's a far healthier way to live, both online and offline.

But, see, it's not an unfrequent occurrence for the original poster on a thread in which this is occurring to just shut down and give up because it just feels too hard to deal with you and your feelings.  

I feel sometimes like you make other people's threads about yourself.  It's not just a matter of being overconfident.  And when people try to call you out on it in a given thread or talk to you about it, you don't take it well.  You double down and call us mean or wrong and you never stop to consider the possibility that you might not know what's going on in other people's lives better than they do.  

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmm, is this thread upsetting you? Because if so, I'm sorry. 

No, not at all. 

It's got my attention, which is a good thing for hungry mind, but a bad thing for 'dont engage' mind. Which is a me problem. 

Is it bothering you that I am engaging? I can stop. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

But, see, it's not an unfrequent occurrence for the original poster on a thread in which this is occurring to just shut down and give up because it just feels too hard to deal with you and your feelings.  

I feel sometimes like you make other people's threads about yourself.  It's not just a matter of being overconfident.  And when people try to call you out on it in a given thread or talk to you about it, you don't take it well.  You double down and call us mean or wrong and you never stop to consider the possibility that you might not know what's going on in other people's lives better than they do.  

I mean, I'd rather not do that, obviously? If I'm doing that then I feel cruddy. 

I get no pleasure out of causing pain to others. I don't actually even enjoy judging others. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

No, not at all. 

It's got my attention, which is a good thing for hungry mind, but a bad thing for 'dont engage' mind. Which is a me problem. 

Is it bothering you that I am engaging? I can stop. 

As you're not piling on me, of course not. 

But honestly, even people piling on me aren't bothering me. Most people who are piling on are telling me how to think/feel, and I've somehow really gotten it down in the last year that no one has the right to do that. No one's needs extend to my brain. Only to my actions. 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I'm sure I hurt people's feelings sometimes. I'm not actually unaware of that. 

Frankly, I'd rather people called me on it at the time rather than stew and then sound resentful on totally unrelated threads 😂. It's a far healthier way to live, both online and offline.

But most of us don't usually want this forum to be a series of slaps back and forth.

If that's what you are looking for, then ... well ... you can post a thread specifically for that purpose, as long as you're honest about it going in.  That way everyone on the thread is up for that kind of exchange.  Those who would rather not fight can hang out on other threads.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

But most of us don't usually want this forum to be a series of slaps back and forth.

If that's what you are looking for, then ... well ... you can post a thread specifically for that purpose, as long as you're honest about it going in.  That way everyone on the thread is up for that kind of exchange.  Those who would rather not fight can hang out on other threads.

No, I don't want that. I'm trying to figure out what I do want. 

One thing I do want is to post things that feel important for me to say. 

Another thing that I want is not to get into stupid pointless fights that make people feel bad and also get me down and take time. 

And I do want to be able to have conversations with people with a back and forth where we can brainstorm together. 

Of course, another possibility is that I can't have what I want in the context of this forum, but in terms of what seems important to me, those would be it. 

[Robin M]

I've been here from more than 20 years and this forum as a whole is what got us through our homeschool journey.  I think I discovered WTM book first, then the forum, and feel in like/love with everyone here.  I think James was four at the time and Y'all held my hand, gave us encouragement, and the wide variety of curriculum sent me down so many rabbit holes. Good ones. My aspie was easily bored, so had to change up constantly, but in the end we were successful. We never expected to homeschool from K to 12 but took it year to year and I don't think we could have done it without all of you. 

I stayed for the comradery, and also the book talk as well. 😁 52 books will end this year, but I may occasionally start a 'what are you reading' threads because you know I love to hear about what you're reading. 

I'm in my 60's now, James is taking college classes online, but still occasionally needs mom's help so still have my foot in the game.  But stayed because I like it here, it's become a habit, a respite from life, and it's also ever changing.  I've seen the lean away from traditional, can I call it that, homeschooling, into something different, so really can't offer advice to the newbies. 

 But I enjoy the diversity of opinions and have learned so much.  I like discussions, not necessarily debates which aren't much of a debate when the focus is I'm right, and you're wrong.  I'm of the camp there are no wrong opinions, just different opinions. And that's okay. It's when it creates a divide, that I chose not to engage.  I've learned to let people have the last word rather than go down a rabbit hole,  I've learned to let it go, rather than fight about it.  I've also had to learn to let people go, rather than hold on.  But also to let new people in.  This place really is like a neighborhood, full of a variety of families, and it's fun to get together and talk, discuss, debate, help one another.  That's what this forum means to me. 

 

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

No, I don't want that. I'm trying to figure out what I do want. 

One thing I do want is to post things that feel important for me to say. 

Another thing that I want is not to get into stupid pointless fights that make people feel bad and also get me down and take time. 

And I do want to be able to have conversations with people with a back and forth where we can brainstorm together. 

Of course, another possibility is that I can't have what I want in the context of this forum, but in terms of what seems important to me, those would be it. 

You can always add JAWM in your subject line if you don’t want to have any arguments in a thread where you post something that feels important to say.

[marbel]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

As you're not piling on me, of course not. 

But honestly, even people piling on me aren't bothering me. Most people who are piling on are telling me how to think/feel, and I've somehow really gotten it down in the last year that no one has the right to do that. No one's needs extend to my brain. Only to my actions. 

So maybe I missed it, but I don't believe people are telling you how to think/feel, but rather suggesting ways you might respond to posts you disagree with.  

Honestly, and not trying to pile on, but it's starting to sound as if you want a lot of grace/understanding from others, while not extending the same to others. 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by marbel

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, marbel said:

So maybe I missed it, but I don't believe people are telling you how to think/feel, but rather suggesting ways you might respond to posts you disagree with. 

I don't know how else to interpret things like "You shouldn't be confident about other people's kids/lives." Those are statements about my opinions, not about what I say. 

I think a reasonable sentiment is "You shouldn't post so much on other people's threads and take them over." And I'll grant that. And in fact, I think I said upthread that I've been thinking about whether it'd be better to just say my piece once and go. Although, frankly, I'd guess that people would start arguing with me, because that's not the issue a lot of the time -- the issue is that people sometimes find the opinions offensive. 

Another reasonable request is "don't post on my threads anymore." Which I will of course consider. 

 

Just now, marbel said:

Honestly, and not trying to pile on, but it's starting to sound as if you want a lot of grace/understanding from others, while not extending it to others. 

I don't need any understanding 🤷‍♀️. I haven't asked for any, frankly. I've told people when their posts bothered me, but that's not asking for understanding. It's just a true statement of how they made me feel. I can't help that. 

[Melissa Louise]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

No, I don't want that. I'm trying to figure out what I do want. 

One thing I do want is to post things that feel important for me to say. 

Another thing that I want is not to get into stupid pointless fights that make people feel bad and also get me down and take time. 

And I do want to be able to have conversations with people with a back and forth where we can brainstorm together. 

Of course, another possibility is that I can't have what I want in the context of this forum, but in terms of what seems important to me, those would be it. 

Last point/post, 'cos I am getting a bit too sucked in. 

I don't think what you want is often possible in any virtual world.

I think it is possible in the real world, though not guaranteed, and that people in general are better off forming IRL communities than virtual ones. 

I think if you had asked for advice, which you didn't, so this is just gratuitous, I would say, find something outside of homeschooling/this forum to really challenge you, some meat to sink your teeth into, all the way down to the bone. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

You can always add JAWM in your subject line if you don’t want to have any arguments in a thread where you post something that feels important to say.

I suppose I actually want to be able to say important things in other people's threads, too. Because, as @lewelma said upthread, people do have trouble seeing things from outside perspectives, and I sometimes think I have things to contribute. 

Of course, sometimes I'm wrong. And I shouldn't get pulled into discussions. 

One should be able to say one's piece and leave. 

[SKL]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

No, I don't want that. I'm trying to figure out what I do want. 

One thing I do want is to post things that feel important for me to say. 

Another thing that I want is not to get into stupid pointless fights that make people feel bad and also get me down and take time. 

And I do want to be able to have conversations with people with a back and forth where we can brainstorm together. 

Of course, another possibility is that I can't have what I want in the context of this forum, but in terms of what seems important to me, those would be it. 

I think the bolded are common wants of most of us here.

Many of us have had times when discussions took a bad turn because of something we said.  We hopefully learn over time and start to tend toward more productive conversation.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Last point/post, 'cos I am getting a bit too sucked in. 

I don't think what you want is often possible in any virtual world.

I think it is possible in the real world, though not guaranteed, and that people in general are better off forming IRL communities than virtual ones. 

I think if you had asked for advice, which you didn't, so this is just gratuitous, I would say, find something outside of homeschooling/this forum to really challenge you, some meat to sink your teeth into, all the way down to the bone. 

Oh, I do lots of stuff 🙂 . I translate books and I tutor and I run a co-op in NYC. I just like this space because I have to filter myself so much in real life. 

But maybe I have unrealistic views about forums. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SKL said:

I think the bolded are common wants of most of us here.

Many of us have had times when discussions took a bad turn because of something we said.  We hopefully learn over time and start to tend toward more productive conversation.

Yeah. That's what I'm musing about here. What I'd need to change. 

[Robin M]

59 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So then the question is what one does with one's strong opinion if one has a town square and a megaphone . . . 🤔

To try and not shout over the other person with a megaphone.  To try and not get up on a soapbox and shout strong opinion, without listening.  My husband has strong opinions and when he gets started, after a bit we tell him he's monologuing and would he like to actually have a conversation, or does he just want to talk what ever out.  So folks will listen if you are shouting from the town square, but only for so long.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Robin M said:

To try and not shout over the other person with a megaphone.  To try and not get up on a soapbox and shout strong opinion, without listening.  My husband has strong opinions and when he gets started, after a bit we tell him he's monologuing and would he like to actually have a conversation, or does he just want to talk what ever out.  So folks will listen if you are shouting from the town square, but only for so long.  

See, I often have the (wrong) feeling that the way to listen is to ask questions, and I've noticed that doesn't work all that well on here. People can feel defensive if they are the wrong questions. 

I'm not someone who monologues at all in real life. I find people like that really tiresome. 

But I do engage too forcefully for some people. I think that's the same problem. 

[Robin M]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Many of us have had times when discussions took a bad turn because of something we said.  We hopefully learn over time and start to tend toward more productive conversation.

There are also times when someone is going through something, we have no idea what it is, but their cup overflows, and they take it out on the last person to say anything.  Around my house, we ask, are you in the red. If yes, then we deal with the underlying issue first, before continuing the conversation. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, I do lots of stuff 🙂 . I translate books and I tutor and I run a co-op in NYC. I just like this space because I have to filter myself so much in real life. 

But maybe I have unrealistic views about forums. 

I know you do lots of stuff. But my experience is that a forum is not the place to meet the need for conversational tussling.

Simply projecting now, so ignore if you want, but I think that for some of us the tussling is meeting a real need that is better met elsewhere. 

Forums are....yeah...tricky places. Being unfiltered here will be just as frowned upon as it is IRL - more so, even 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

I know you do lots of stuff. But my experience is that a forum is not the place to meet the need for conversational tussling.

Simply projecting now, so ignore if you want, but I think that for some of us the tussling is meeting a real need that is better met elsewhere. 

Forums are....yeah...tricky places. Being unfiltered here will be just as frowned upon as it is IRL - more so, even 

And yet people ARE more unfiltered here than in real life, you have to admit. 

[Not_a_Number]

Well, here's a question, not directing it at anyone specific. If I sounded just as full of myself as I do nowadays, but I made one post and left... would people be offended if I then didn't argue with them when they quoted me? Because sometimes that's what happens... I post, people are offended, there's an argument, I get sucked in. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

And yet people ARE more unfiltered here than in real life, you have to admit. 

Maybe. There's still an etiquette governing it all though, and the responses when etiquette is contravened can be more extreme than IRL, imo. 

[Robin M]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

See, I often have the (wrong) feeling that the way to listen is to ask questions, and I've noticed that doesn't work all that well on here. People can feel defensive if they are the wrong questions. 

I've discovered that discussions will take the turn for the worst and people start getting defensive when they don't know the answer to the question.  It's gone beyond a discussion to making them rethink and reevaluate and that's what makes them defensive. The discomfort in not knowing what they think and having to try to figure it out.  It may be that continued questions have undercovered something they don't want to think about. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Maybe. There's still an etiquette governing it all though, and the responses when etiquette is contravened can be more extreme than IRL, imo. 

You're right that I'm contravening the etiquette because I want to be more unfiltered here than in real life. Hmmmm. 

What's the etiquette, you'd say? If you don't mind telling me. (I actually think I know. In here, just like in real life, I don't tend to break the rules unknowingly. But it's still helpful to see written down)