Is this an ADHD symptom?

[Toocrazy!!]

DS19 was recently diagnosed with ADHD. He’s been trying increasing strengths of vyvanse for the last 5 weeks with no noticeable effect to him. 

His issues are focus, inattentive, and lack of motivation maybe? I don’t know what to call it. We were talking about it yesterday, and I mentioned how hard it is for most anyone to be truly productive without some sort of accountability. A schedule, a teacher, a boss, anything that sets you up to get something done. 

He’s doing an online class, but it’s completely self scheduled with no outside deadlines at all. So, he’s just not doing it. To me, that sounds like an impossible situation where almost anyone would fail. I maybe could manage it, but I definitely do better with some outside accountability. He says maybe I have ADHD:) 

[Lady Florida.]

That's definitely part of ADHD. It's why people who have ADHD often get called lazy. It's not being lazy, it's part of the disorder. Yes, it's hard for most of us without ADHD to self schedule - just look at the calendar/chore lists business for adults - but it's even harder for people with ADHD.

[Carrie12345]

Yes. 
My productivity is high when I’m tightly scheduled. My energy balance, otoh, is sucked dry. 

[Clemsondana]

A struggle to get started on things is an ADHD symptom for some types of ADHD.  One of my kids would thrive with that type of schedule since they like to work in bursts, but the other would struggle to get anything done because they'd just keep thinking that they could do it later.  

[Storygirl]

Yes. It's called executive function. You can google executive function and see that it encompasses a lot of things, and different people can struggle with different facets of it. A common book to suggest is Smart but Scattered.

[kbutton]

Definitely a symptom.

Some people with ADHD have decent or even good executive functioning but struggle more with impulsivity, attention, or hyperactivity. Anyone with ADHD can be spiky in skills and have individual issues that are really difficult even when other areas are unaffected. 

 

 

[Kanin]

27 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Some people with ADHD have decent or even good executive functioning but struggle more with impulsivity, attention, or hyperactivity. Anyone with ADHD can be spiky in skills and have individual issues that are really difficult even when other areas are unaffected. 

 

And people can be judgey - like... he/she's so SMART but just not motivated!

Someone I know has a teenager with ADHD. She writes beautifully for someone her age. It also takes forEVer for her to write. The teachers only see the final product so they think there's no problem. When the mom says, "But it takes her hours to write a paragraph!" the teachers think it's a motivation/laziness issue. So frustrating.

 

 

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, Toocrazy!! said:

So, he’s just not doing it. To me, that sounds like an impossible situation where almost anyone would fail. I maybe could manage it, but I definitely do better with some outside accountability. He says maybe I have ADHD:) 

Ugh. So stressful. Maybe it was someone on here said that for people with ADHD, time is separated into two times, now and not-now. 

Is he concerned about managing the workload, looking ahead to the end of the semester?

[kbutton]

44 minutes ago, Kanin said:

And people can be judgey - like... he/she's so SMART but just not motivated!

Someone I know has a teenager with ADHD. She writes beautifully for someone her age. It also takes forEVer for her to write. The teachers only see the final product so they think there's no problem. When the mom says, "But it takes her hours to write a paragraph!" the teachers think it's a motivation/laziness issue. So frustrating.

So much of that, and then when we got professional help, people still didn't know what to do with my DS. 

We had a professional working with our son that identified that he had a language issue on top of ASD and ADHD and being gifted. Great! We got testing. Even after that, she threw him under the bus when her preferred method of support was not enough to help him bridge his issue. We're supposed to mature as we age and deal with life, but let me tell you, if I had a crystal ball and could've seen then what I know about him now, I am pretty sure I'd be in jail (he's amazing and has been responded optimally to every effective therapy he's had--above and beyond what is typical). As it is, we "fired" her (she still has a job, but we asked for another employee from our provider).

What's really rich is that she has RAGING ADHD herself, and I can't tell you the times we adapted for her lack of professionalism during the few months we used her services. The stories...

It's such a mess to get help sometimes! 

[Lady Florida.]

45 minutes ago, Kanin said:

 Maybe it was someone on here said that for people with ADHD, time is separated into two times, now and not-now. 

Ds24 has moderate combined type ADHD. He says time doesn't exist for him. 

[Toocrazy!!]

Ok. That all makes sense. Maybe I do have ADHD. 
 

He opted, and we agreed, to do this class in lieu of enrolling in college. But basically he’s been in a holding pattern for the last 6 months waiting on testing appointments, evaluations, and meds. Thinking that when he was medicated everything would be so much simpler, so why start now kind of attitude. It’s frustrating to me because he has a long history of successful school work pre diagnosis and meds. But I get it as well. 
 

Honestly, I just thought most people behaved like this. I definitely do. If it weren’t for deadlines and outside accountability, I’d never get anything done. 

[Melissa Louise]

That class would not work for my ds with ADHD.  

Work is better for him.

He needs meds to work efficiently, but so far he's held this job over 18 months, and been retained through a relocation and while others have been let go. I feel that the practice of work has helped train his executive functioning. 

If he decides to study, it will need to be in person, with high external  accountability. 

I'm more confident he could manage that now, after managing work. But a MOOC? Not a chance. He'd sit down to start and five minutes later, he'd be doing something completely unconnected. 

 

 

 

[Tanaqui]

ADHD is highly heritable. It's certainly possible that you also have ADHD, or are subclinical but really close.

[kbutton]

A lot of ADHD traits are just more extreme examples of things "everyone" does, but most people can course correct. 

[MEmama]

16 hours ago, Kanin said:

Ugh. So stressful. Maybe it was someone on here said that for people with ADHD, time is separated into two times, now and not-now. 

This just blew me away. It explains so.much about how DS organizes (or really, doesn’t organize) his life.

12 hours ago, kbutton said:

A lot of ADHD traits are just more extreme examples of things "everyone" does, but most people can course correct. 

I’m pretty sure DS struggles with undiagnosed ADD. DH, as usual, is unconvinced— he argues that we all face similar struggles so why doesn’t DS just buck up and face them/finish them/ get through them already? Well, because it’s clear he *can't*, that’s why. 

 

18 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

That's definitely part of ADHD. It's why people who have ADHD often get called lazy. It's not being lazy, it's part of the disorder. Yes, it's hard for most of us without ADHD to self schedule - just look at the calendar/chore lists business for adults - but it's even harder for people with ADHD.

When we homeschooled and ADD was not yet on my radar, I referred to his “refusal” to complete tasks— nearly always writing related— as “self sabotage”. I knew he had the ability, he just wouldn’t (I see now he couldn't) get it done. The organisation, the processes were just too much, and if he wasn’t interested in the subject, just forget about it. Sometimes he would just write about an entirely different subject—one he was interested in and could therefore wrap his brain around. We had to actively rein in some of his high school papers that went astray, but sometimes he was able to stay on topic *just* enough to satisfy the requirement, while deftly focusing on his actual interest. He tended to receive excellent feedback when he was successful, in those papers teachers could see his passion and creativity whereas they would have received a hot mess had he tried to only stay on task. 

 

18 hours ago, Toocrazy!! said:

He’s doing an online class, but it’s completely self scheduled with no outside deadlines at all. So, he’s just not doing it.

Senior year (public high school) was entirely virtual for DS because of covid. He's an extremely academic minded, motivated student— high honors and all that. But virtual school was an absolute disaster for him— as it turned out, he didn’t do any schoolwork at all until the final week or two of each quarter, when he would buckle down and complete the entire quarter in just a few days. I have no idea how he did it, but during those times he was focused and weirdly more relaxed than the times he avoided his work. And somehow he still managed to produce good work and aced most of his classes. It wasn’t a case of not wanting to work or not feeling motivated to end his high school career on a high note, it was that not having a regular schedule and deadlines  and daily accountability completely derailed him. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by MEmama

[Carrie12345]

38 minutes ago, MEmama said:

When we homeschooled and ADD was not yet on my radar, I referred to his “refusal” to complete tasks— nearly always writing related— as “self sabotage”. I knew he had the ability, he just wouldn’t (I see now he couldn't) get it done. The organisation, the processes were just too much, and if he wasn’t interested in the subject, just forget about it. Sometimes he would just write about an entirely different subject—one he was interested in and could therefore wrap his brain around. We had to actively rein in some of his high school papers that went astray, but sometimes he was able to stay on topic *just* enough to satisfy the requirement, while deftly focusing on his actual interest. He tended to receive excellent feedback when he was successful, in those papers teachers could see his passion and creativity whereas they would have received a hot mess had he tried to only stay on task. 

I’m laughing over here because, to this day, I connect things to my interests or at least something I expect people to find more interesting than the topic at hand by itself.
And do not get me started on notecards, outlines, rough drafts… Let me hyperfocus and pour it all out, then give me another hyperfocus session to do an entire rewrite that will look nothing like the first but will earn a gold star for perfection. TYVM.

Every single paper I wrote in high school was bs. And an A.

[Clemsondana]

38 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Senior year (public high school) was entirely virtual for DS because of covid. He's an extremely academic minded, motivated student— high honors and all that. But virtual school was an absolute disaster for him— as it turned out, he didn’t do any schoolwork at all until the final week or two of each quarter, when he would buckle down and complete the entire quarter in just a few days. I have no idea how he did it, but during those times he was focused and weirdly more relaxed than the times he avoided his work. And somehow he still managed to produce good work and aced most of his classes. It wasn’t a case of not wanting to work or not feeling motivated to end his high school career on a high note, it was that not having a regular schedule and deadlines  and daily accountability completely derailed him. 

For some of these kids it's almost like there is anxiety around having something on their to-do list but they can't make themselves start on it.  My ADD kid will sometimes spend a whole day complaining about being required to do a small 15-30 minute task.  When we hit the 'you must start now to be done in time to do fun thing' deadline, usually kid easily accomplishes the task, after losing an entire day to sulking about it.  My other kid hates stress so usually does everything ahead of time so that there's extra time in case there is a problem.  Kid has a couple of online or co-op classes with work due on Thursday or Friday.  Kid tries to be done with all of it by Wednesday, and prefers to start the next week's work on Thursday night and finish most of it by Monday if the schedule allows.  They are at extreme ends of the spectrum for time management!  

[Toocrazy!!]

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

For some of these kids it's almost like there is anxiety around having something on their to-do list but they can't make themselves start on it.  My ADD kid will sometimes spend a whole day complaining about being required to do a small 15-30 minute task.  When we hit the 'you must start now to be done in time to do fun thing' deadline, usually kid easily accomplishes the task, after losing an entire day to sulking about it.  My other kid hates stress so usually does everything ahead of time so that there's extra time in case there is a problem.  Kid has a couple of online or co-op classes with work due on Thursday or Friday.  Kid tries to be done with all of it by Wednesday, and prefers to start the next week's work on Thursday night and finish most of it by Monday if the schedule allows.  They are at extreme ends of the spectrum for time management!  

This first part is me. Today. I have a work project to do by tomorrow night. As usual, I procrastinate until I can’t anymore, then some kind of adrenaline kicks in last minute and I get it done. But the anxiety weighing on me before I start is there and it’s no fun. 

[Clemsondana]

1 minute ago, Toocrazy!! said:

This first part is me. Today. I have a work project to do by tomorrow night. As usual, I procrastinate until I can’t anymore, then some kind of adrenaline kicks in last minute and I get it done. But the anxiety weighing on me before I start is there and it’s no fun. 

It's so hard - everybody does it sometimes about something, to varying degrees.  For this kid, it sometimes takes over the whole house as kid walks around grumping at everybody and we all know that it's because they are procrastinating about putting sheets on their bed or putting away their laundry or practicing their extracurricular...and then they get mad that the rest of us are sitting around chilling and they have to work, but the rest of us did our work before lunchtime and now have a free weekend afternoon.  I also find that my kid, and spouse who tends in this direction but is nowhere near as bad, struggle to figure out how long things take.  They'll procrastinate on something thinking that they need hours when the task takes 30 minutes, or they'll insist that they can do something without allowing enough time (sure, a middle schooler can dash off a 2 page paper in 45 imnutes the night before it's due!  no need to start a day or 2 ahead of time!).  Spouse has learned that I'm better at time planning so, outside of work, defers to me about some things.  Kid, beeing a tween, thinks I'm incompetent.  Other kid, a teen, had a different personality and accepted a lot of guidance when younger and now does a pretty good job.  Last weekend older kid said that they thought maybe they wasted too much time so they were going to track time usage in 15 minute increments for a week or 2, and they've been pleased at some effeciency increases.  Younger spent 3 hours complaining about being told to take their vitamins one day. Extremes are us. 🙄

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

Sometimes he would just write about an entirely different subject—one he was interested in and could therefore wrap his brain around. We had to actively rein in some of his high school papers that went astray, but sometimes he was able to stay on topic *just* enough to satisfy the requirement, while deftly focusing on his actual interest.

This is totally my second kid, but it's only partly ADHD. He's a "third way" person in every way possible. If he is supposed to choose a side of an argument and run with it, he will come up with a third option that is the best of both. This kind of thinking is not particularly rewarded, lol! 

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

And do not get me started on notecards, outlines, rough drafts… Let me hyperfocus and pour it all out, then give me another hyperfocus session to do an entire rewrite that will look nothing like the first but will earn a gold star for perfection. TYVM.

Every single paper I wrote in high school was bs. And an A.

I used notecards when something need attributions and such, but when I wrote for work where I didn't have to cite sources and such because it was technical documentation, I definitely did the hyperfocus and rewrite thing.

Regarding the bolded, I wish more teachers acknowledged this reality and how limited it can be for real world application and assigned things accordingly. That might be jealousy speaking though, as I do not have this ability. I hated composition but became a tech writer. I can say things well, but I have zero interest in writing about random stuff, responding to literature, etc. I like solving problems when I write or preventing them in the first place with good documentation. 

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

I also find that my kid, and spouse who tends in this direction but is nowhere near as bad, struggle to figure out how long things take.  

One of my kids takes this to a whole new level. 

[EKS]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:10 AM, Toocrazy!! said:

He’s doing an online class, but it’s completely self scheduled with no outside deadlines at all. So, he’s just not doing it. To me, that sounds like an impossible situation where almost anyone would fail. I maybe could manage it, but I definitely do better with some outside accountability. He says maybe I have ADHD:) 

That sounds like a maturity issue rather than an attention issue.  Not every undesirable behavior is the result of some sort of diagnosable condition.