Deleted

[Drama Llama]

. . .

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[Spryte]

Sorting through it here, too. I’m hoping my live-in, frail elder will get a third shot soon, preferably before her (healthy and active but obviously same age) twin picks her up for a week long visit sans masks and distancing.  Eek!

[Pawz4me]

We will have to wait until the announcement to see who qualifies. My *guess* is that no, simply being old(er) doesn't count as being immune compromised, or at least won't in the first wave of those recommended for third shots. But certainly I could be wrong.

[KSera]

6 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

We will have to wait until the announcement to see who qualifies. My *guess* is that no, simply being old(er) doesn't count as being immune compromised, or at least won't in the first wave of those recommended for third shots. But certainly I could be wrong.

This is what I expect, but I also think it’s likely we will move onto boosters for the elderly next. Israel did so very soon after doing them for the immune compromised. 

[Dmmetler]

I'm guessing it will look similar to the last roll out-boosters for immune compromised who probably didn't get full protection from the first shots, then for elderly and HCW who were vaccinated last Winter, and then for other groups. As long as it's a regular dose, it won't require anything more than they're doing now. I would like to see them make a recommendation on mixing shots-would it make sense to get a Moderna booster for someone who's first shots were Pfizer, or would it be more protective to get another Pfizer? 

 

I doubt I'll qualify as immune compromised-I have an autoimmune disorder, but am not on any medications that would suppress vaccine response, and I'm not 6 months out yet, but I'm hoping I can get a booster sometime this fall, and it would be awesome if I could get it at the same time as the flu shot for this year, and just be totally miserable for one weekend, since both, in the past, have made me feel pretty bad. 

 

[ktgrok]

I don't know, but my son was vaccinated with Pfizer in early and late march and had a breakthrough case 😞

I'm hoping that maybe private doctors will be able to write a note/sign a form for those that need boosters, in which case some doctors may be pretty lenient as to who that is. I'd love my mom to get one - only 70 but frail, COPD, low 02 sats without Covid, gets pneumonia easily, etc. Not technically immune compromised other than by age, but obviously needs as much protection as possible, same with your GFIL. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I don't know, but my son was vaccinated with Pfizer in early and late march and had a breakthrough case 😞

I'm hoping that maybe private doctors will be able to write a note/sign a form for those that need boosters, in which case some doctors may be pretty lenient as to who that is. I'd love my mom to get one - only 70 but frail, COPD, low 02 sats without Covid, gets pneumonia easily, etc. Not technically immune compromised other than by age, but obviously needs as much protection as possible, same with your GFIL. 

Your mom has RA, right? Her biologic or methotrexate use—whatever her RA meds are—should put her into this category.

[TechWife]

You will get the best advice from his doctor who knows him, has all of his records and is keeping up with vaccine info. That’s what he/she went to school for. That’s what he/she had experience with. It’s really impossible to get reliable info for a specific person from strangers on the web. Talk to the qualified medical professionals. If your relative is competent, remember he has the final say. Talk to the doctor. 

[ktgrok]

23 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Your mom has RA, right? Her biologic or methotrexate use—whatever her RA meds are—should put her into this category.

She's not on a biologic. I don't know if they decided it was too late, once they realized it was not normal osteoarthritis, or what. Or if she refused - ever since the cancer she's really really really overly cautious about medications of any kind, or if they are not advised to people that have had cancer, or what. She is on antinflammatories, and 1 daily dose of a narcotic, fish oils, tumeric, a heavy duty med for her osteoporosis, and blood pressure meds. 

Oh..wait, her osteoporosis drug might be a biologic. She went back and forth about going on it. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by ktgrok

[Pawz4me]

Here's the thing, IMO--

There is a difference (a big one, to my way of thinking) in

1 - Having some protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's most people who have age/health issues that don't involve the immune system, and

2 - Having little or no protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's immune compromised people.

#2 is significantly worse than #1

If you/your loved one are in #1 consider them more fortunate than those in #2 (I know, not much comfort).

My *guess* is the CDC is going to attempt to give those in the #2 group a chance to get a third vaccine in a relatively orderly manner--because truly they do need it more than others--and then allow those in #1 group to do so.

It's unfortunate (in lots of ways) that this is happening at the same time there's an increased demand for the vaccine among the hesitant. I hope it doesn't devolve into a free-for-all chaotic mess.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Here's the thing, IMO--

There is a difference (a big one, to my way of thinking) in

1 - Having some protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's most people who have age/health issues that don't involve the immune system, and

2 - Having little or no protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's immune compromised people.

#2 is significantly worse than #1

If you/your loved one are in #1 consider them more fortunate than those in #2 (I know, not much comfort).

My *guess* is the CDC is going to attempt to give those in the #2 group a chance to get a third vaccine in a relatively orderly manner--because truly they do need it more than others--and then allow those in #1 group to do so.

It's unfortunate (in lots of ways) that this is happening at the same time there's an increased demand for the vaccine among the hesitant. I hope it doesn't devolve into a free-for-all chaotic mess.

That makes sense. 

Although I will say in Florida we have plenty of vaccine given so many don't want even one shot. 

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Here's the thing, IMO--

There is a difference (a big one, to my way of thinking) in

1 - Having some protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's most people who have age/health issues that don't involve the immune system, and

2 - Having little or no protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's immune compromised people.

#2 is significantly worse than #1

If you/your loved one are in #1 consider them more fortunate than those in #2 (I know, not much comfort).

My *guess* is the CDC is going to attempt to give those in the #2 group a chance to get a third vaccine in a relatively orderly manner--because truly they do need it more than others--and then allow those in #1 group to do so.

It's unfortunate (in lots of ways) that this is happening at the same time there's an increased demand for the vaccine among the hesitant. I hope it doesn't devolve into a free-for-all chaotic mess.

This is what I think also. There’s also the global ethical question about some of us being queued up for a third dose while so much of the world hasn’t had a first dose.

[TravelingChris]

8 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm guessing it will look similar to the last roll out-boosters for immune compromised who probably didn't get full protection from the first shots, then for elderly and HCW who were vaccinated last Winter, and then for other groups. As long as it's a regular dose, it won't require anything more than they're doing now. I would like to see them make a recommendation on mixing shots-would it make sense to get a Moderna booster for someone who's first shots were Pfizer, or would it be more protective to get another Pfizer? 

 

I doubt I'll qualify as immune compromised-I have an autoimmune disorder, but am not on any medications that would suppress vaccine response, and I'm not 6 months out yet, but I'm hoping I can get a booster sometime this fall, and it would be awesome if I could get it at the same time as the flu shot for this year, and just be totally miserable for one weekend, since both, in the past, have made me feel pretty bad. 

 

Depending on your disorder- I do know that both Lupus and MS are covered even without immunosuppression medication- or at least that was in the comments from CDC last week.

[TravelingChris]

11 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

The new information about breakthrough infections, and length of time since vaccine, and Pfizer vs. Moderna has me panicking about my GFIL, and other elderly relatives.  He's almost 91 and got Pfizer in February and early March.  

I am unclear whether the new boosters will apply to him. I'm hearing mixed things about whether simply being very old counts as an immune-compromising condition.  I also know that Pfizer still has decent protection against hospitalization and death, but I'm unclear how much risk is left due to his age.  For example, I read that there's 90% protection against severe disease which sounds great!  But I also read that at his age he was 600 times as likely to die if he gets covid, so does that mean he's still 60 times as likely to die as a healthy young unvaccinated person?  I don't like that number. 

 

Here is the thing- these shots are not booster shots which cannot be given until full authorization.  These shots are a third dose for all 9 million of us who didn't react like others and don't have anywhere the immunity of others, including normal elderly.  Now, the elderly do have less than normal lower age- though the magic number is not really 65/  Basically, immunity starts its slowing in the 50s and slowly gets worse.  (My immunity decided to get stronger in attacking me in my 50s but I am an exception).

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Here's the thing, IMO--

There is a difference (a big one, to my way of thinking) in

1 - Having some protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's most people who have age/health issues that don't involve the immune system, and

2 - Having little or no protection from the vaccines but also having conditions that put you at higher risk if you get Covid. That's immune compromised people.

#2 is significantly worse than #1

If you/your loved one are in #1 consider them more fortunate than those in #2 (I know, not much comfort).

My *guess* is the CDC is going to attempt to give those in the #2 group a chance to get a third vaccine in a relatively orderly manner--because truly they do need it more than others--and then allow those in #1 group to do so.

It's unfortunate (in lots of ways) that this is happening at the same time there's an increased demand for the vaccine among the hesitant. I hope it doesn't devolve into a free-for-all chaotic mess.

And they cannot give group #1 boosters or anybody boosters right now.  That is against the Emergency Authorization   Whenever the get normal authorization of the vaccines, there can be boosters.   

 

Oh, and if anyone wants to sneak in and get another shot without authorization, it is actually a Federal crime of theft or fraud (not sure how they would charge it) because the vaccines are being bought by the Feds.

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is what I think also. There’s also the global ethical question about some of us being queued up for a third dose while so much of the world hasn’t had a first dose.

But there actually is more hesitancy in many of the third world countries that we tend to give our vaccines to--Haiti's assassinated president had refused our offer of lots of vacccines-  which led to Haiti having no one vaccinated.  (I don't know if or how that has changed since his assasination in early July).

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

But there actually is more hesitancy in many of the third world countries that we tend to give our vaccines to--Haiti's assassinated president had refused our offer of lots of vacccines-  which led to Haiti having no one vaccinated.  (I don't know if or how that has changed since his assasination in early July).

Moise was not your average head of state. 

Here's a published study on worldwide vaccine hesitancy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7920465/

[Catwoman]

7 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is what I think also. There’s also the global ethical question about some of us being queued up for a third dose while so much of the world hasn’t had a first dose.

I disagree with this. The people for whom a booster shot is currently being recommended are the population for whom the initial doses of the vaccine have most likely been ineffective. Why shouldn’t they get a chance at a vaccine that has a better chance of providing some immunity? Those people have essentially been trapped in their homes for around 1 1/2 years now. (Ask me how I know.)

[JennyD]

This article has sort of a sensationalist framing, but Michael Mina is someone I always listen to carefully and he has a lot to say about how/why/when immunity wanes in the elderly.

Edited August 13, 2021 by JennyD

[Ausmumof3]

A man in his 90s died here yesterday who had been double vaccinated, mostly like with Astra Zeneca and most likely from Delta. He was in palliative care.

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Moise was not your average head of state. 

Here's a published study on worldwide vaccine hesitancy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7920465/

Oh I know Moise wasn't a good person.

There is a low acceptance of the vaccine in the immigrants streaming across our border.

[Drama Llama]

. . .

Edited October 27, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[Drama Llama]

. . .

Edited October 27, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I disagree with this. The people for whom a booster shot is currently being recommended are the population for whom the initial doses of the vaccine have most likely been ineffective. Why shouldn’t they get a chance at a vaccine that has a better chance of providing some immunity? Those people have essentially been trapped in their homes for around 1 1/2 years now. (Ask me how I know.)

@Catwoman I actually will likely qualify for a booster because I'm on an immunosuppressant.  Don't know if you remember that.  I haven't eaten inside of a restaurant since February 2020, and have been at home. I've been stuck at home, and it's worrisome because I have family members schooling and working in high exposure environments, so even though I'm stuck at home, I'm still getting a ton of second hand exposure. 

I'm just sharing that it's a discussion point.  The argument goes that my two shots gave me a stab at some small semblance of immunity compared to the 0% chance that part of the rest of the world has had. I'm not saying that I agree with that analysis, just that it's a discussion that is happening.

[prairiewindmomma]

56 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Oh I know Moise wasn't a good person.

There is a low acceptance of the vaccine in the immigrants streaming across our border.

The Hill, Fox News and other places are reporting that 7/10 immigrants are accepting the vaccine. (They are reporting that 3/10 are rejecting, but do the math 10/10 - 3/10 = 7/10 accepting.) If 70% are choosing to be vaccinated, that's a higher % than US citizens currently.

[Pawz4me]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I disagree with this. The people for whom a booster shot is currently being recommended are the population for whom the initial doses of the vaccine have most likely been ineffective. Why shouldn’t they get a chance at a vaccine that has a better chance of providing some immunity? Those people have essentially been trapped in their homes for around 1 1/2 years now. (Ask me how I know.)

 Cat, it's people like your DH and those with blood cancers that it seems to me should be top priority. I hope they get that. The data on the two dose vaccine response in those groups is depressing, but a third dose seems to make a significant difference. Then people with other cancers, like my DH and so many others should come next, IMO. I'm on an immune suppressing medication for RA, but I haven't seen any good evidence that indicates I should be prioritized over the people in many other groups. I'm likely nowhere--nowhere--near the same level of non-response as the people in the prior groups. People with RA and other AI conditions who are on a different drug(s) than I am--probably they should be given a place in line. I do wonder how specific the recommendations will be, though.

 

5 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 That isn't to say that I'm proposing my GFIL cut the line.  He's pretty clear that he'll choose to get the vaccine when it's his turn.  But it would be helpful to know if other people are reading the research the way I am, and also if people think that approval for a third shot for people over 90 will come soon.  For example, he's scheduling a minor surgery.  My instinct is that he should schedule it asap before our numbers rise, and before his vaccine immunity wanes further, and before there's the added complication of flu season.  But if we knew there would be a third dose in early September, then maybe October would make more sense. 

I'm guessing he'll get a place in line relatively soon.