Let's talk about meat glue & Celiac disease

[cintinative]

aka  Microbial transglutaminase

Apparently a recent (ETA: February 2020) study found that a person with Celiac could react to the meat glue in the same way they would the autoantigen transglutaminase. 

Here's the study: https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/3/1127

Here's an article: https://www.celiac.com/articles.html/should-celiacs-worry-about-microbial-transglutaminase-aka-meat-glue-r5535/

It sounds like they are not required to label for this.  In another article, they recommend you talk to your butcher about what meats to avoid that might contain this meat glue but I'll be honest--I buy my meat at a supermarket and rarely interact with the butcher.

Insert from study: It is considered as a food/meat glue and used routinely in meat, fish, seafood, surimi, milk and dairy, sweet foods, and bakery products [8,9,10,11]. mTG improves dough stability, elasticity, persistency, volume, hydration, elongates shelf life, and provides better fermentation tolerance in baked goods such as bread, pastries, pasta, and tortillas. The enzyme is also used in gluten-free products to improve their texture and qualities, as announced by manufacturers. As a result, Western societies ingest mTG in substantial quantities [6,12].

What do you all know about this? We don't buy imitation crab, which is apparently one of the offending foods.

This is just so weird.   

Edited May 25, 2021 by cintinative

[Danae]

Oh, that’s a major bummer.  Meat glue is amazing.  It’s in chopped and molded meat products, but also sometimes in fancier meats.
 

Here’s a video from a local high-end restaurant about how they cut the cap off the prime rib, take the tough membranes out, and glue it back together.  

[ktgrok]

Well, crap. Is this going to be in say, chicken nuggets? We buy gluten free ones, but I guess this wouldn't be included in that. UGH!!!

[kbutton]

I wonder if doing bloodwork would pick up trace amounts if you're concerned it's being consumed without knowing about it. 

 

[Sdel]

It’s nasty looking pink stuff....ham is a culprit.

[Faith-manor]

I don't know.about this. But watch out for "grilled food" at fast food places. I got a grilled, supposedly GF, chicken breast at a deli, and head a reaction. Googled it. Turns out that many places don't grill it put paint grill marks on it with food paint so it looks grilled and food paint is made with wheat. I had what they said was GF barbecue sauce - and in truth, I have never had trouble with BBq sauce before - on it, kind of smothered a bit so I could not see the fake grill marks.

So if I eat out, pre-pandemic, I only did sit down at places I could trust which aren't many. I am not a celiac sufferer but am allergic and digestively intolerant. I have become a bit fan of picnics.

[cintinative]

14 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, crap. Is this going to be in say, chicken nuggets? We buy gluten free ones, but I guess this wouldn't be included in that. UGH!!!

That's what I am not sure about. We buy GF chicken nuggets from Costco. The quote from the study makes it sound like this is used in some processed GF foods. That would be awful for us.

[cintinative]

12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I wonder if doing bloodwork would pick up trace amounts if you're concerned it's being consumed without knowing about it. 

 

Well, each year we run a TTG test on his blood to check on his Celiac. The lower the number, the better. If this is a reason that his number isn't lower than it is, then I would like to know what products contain this additive, if that makes sense.  It's not the same as testing for this additive specifically.

[Danae]

13 minutes ago, Sdel said:

It’s nasty looking pink stuff....ham is a culprit.

No it’s not.  It’s a white powder. Looks like salt.

[ktgrok]

14 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

 

So if I eat out, pre-pandemic, I only did sit down at places I could trust which aren't many. I am not a celiac sufferer but am allergic and digestively intolerant. I have become a bit fan of picnics.

We basically don't eat out anywhere but Chik Fil A - and there very seldom. The bun comes still in the package, they con't cook anything but fries in the fry oil, and seem very careful. Except, last time they gave us the friend (battered with wheat flour) chicken instead of the grilled gluten free on...but with a gluten free bun, lol. My mistake probably, when ordering. 

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

That's what I am not sure about. We buy GF chicken nuggets from Costco. The quote from the study makes it sound like this is used in some processed GF foods. That would be awful for us.

I just filled out the contact form on the Tyson website to ask if their gluten free nuggets have it. You might want to find the manufacturer website and contact them. 

[cintinative]

This is overwhelming me a bit. They use it ice cream and yogurt too?  I think I was better off not knowing about this. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, cintinative said:

This is overwhelming me a bit. They use it ice cream and yogurt too?  I think I was better off not knowing about this. 

well, crud. 

Also baked goods. 

[cintinative]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

well, crud. 

Also baked goods. 

Right? I have a teenager.  Maybe I should message our GI doc before I begin to freak out.  I am certain my family has it easier than many who have gone before us as far as food choices for our Celiac kid, but grocery shopping still is not "normal" and there is a lot of checking. The prospect of an ingredient which is not required to be disclosed being in SO many foods is going to send me over the edge. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Right? I have a teenager.  Maybe I should message our GI doc before I begin to freak out.  I am certain my family has it easier than many who have gone before us as far as food choices for our Celiac kid, but grocery shopping still is not "normal" and there is a lot of checking. The prospect of an ingredient which is not required to be disclosed being in SO many foods is going to send me over the edge. 

Same, like, I may or may not have just started popping a big bowl of popcorn to stress eat in response to this. 

If it isn't required to be disclosed, what the heck can I do? Short of make EVERYTHING from scratch? I don't WANNA make my own nuggets and ice cream and cookies and french fries!!!! And yes, I know that is whining and premade food is a luxury, but this is my kid that had total food refusal other than like, 1 food, due to PANDAS who is finally sort of eating more variety. I NEED those chicken nuggets. 

I gues, on the one hand, since he has so few things he really likes, it will be easier to contact companies to ask about it...Sigh. 

If this crap is in Luna Bars we are sunk. He survives off those. I just need those, tyson gluten free chicken nuggets (not the strips, those are different and he won't eat them), and banquet maple sausages to be without it, lol. He can live off those and fruit. 

[ktgrok]

34 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I wonder if doing bloodwork would pick up trace amounts if you're concerned it's being consumed without knowing about it. 

 

That lab work is done usually annually at most...so not sure it would be a practical method. 

[Kanin]

Well, that's thoroughly disgusting! What about things like GF salami, deli meat, etc? I eat that stuff all the time. 

[Melissa Louise]

What the heck is meat glue? 

Have never heard of it but ds is celiac.

[cintinative]

42 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Same, like, I may or may not have just started popping a big bowl of popcorn to stress eat in response to this. 

If it isn't required to be disclosed, what the heck can I do? Short of make EVERYTHING from scratch? I don't WANNA make my own nuggets and ice cream and cookies and french fries!!!! And yes, I know that is whining and premade food is a luxury, but this is my kid that had total food refusal other than like, 1 food, due to PANDAS who is finally sort of eating more variety. I NEED those chicken nuggets. 

 

I'm right there with you. Eating a cookie out of stress.  And yes, I thought the same thing about making things from scratch. I can do some of that, but I just don't have the time (or skill) to recreate some things well.  

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

What the heck is meat glue? 

Have never heard of it but ds is celiac.

I had never heard of it before today either.  This is what the article says, "Microbial transglutaminase, also known as ‘meat glue,’ is an enzyme commonly used in the meat industry to “glue” together smaller pieces of fish or meat to make a single larger piece from numerous smaller chunks. Microbial transglutaminase is usually unlabeled and largely invisible to consumers. "

The thing is, it is apparently also used in dairy products, baked products, GF processed products . . .  thus ktgrok and I are now stress eating. 

[cintinative]

So this study was published in February 2020. I wonder (other than the pandemic) why I haven't heard about this before?

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, cintinative said:

I had never heard of it before today either.  This is what the article says, "Microbial transglutaminase, also known as ‘meat glue,’ is an enzyme commonly used in the meat industry to “glue” together smaller pieces of fish or meat to make a single larger piece from numerous smaller chunks. Microbial transglutaminase is usually unlabeled and largely invisible to consumers. "

The thing is, it is apparently also used in dairy products, baked products, GF processed products . . .  thus ktgrok and I are now stress eating. 

I wonder if it's used here in Australia. It really should not be unlabelled. The only processed G/F food we've got ATM is frozen crumbed fish fillets but def worth checking. 

Ugh. 

Please all celiacs only stress eat..idk...fruit! Bananas are zipped, they can't get meat glue in there!

[Indigo Blue]

Ugh. Makes me want to cook and eat only at home. (Which, honestly I pretty much do because food just keeps getting grosser and grosser). I wonder if non-dairy ice cream has this? Maybe this would be an option for some if this is true?

[cintinative]

7 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

Please all celiacs only stress eat..idk...fruit! Bananas are zipped, they can't get meat glue in there!

Fortunately for me, I am stress eating GF homemade cookies. Unless they found a way to put this in Nestle Chocolate Chips, in which case, I will be off crying somewhere.  ETA: I don't have Celiac. This was a confusing statement.

Edited May 25, 2021 by cintinative

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Fortunately for me, I am stress eating GF homemade cookies. Unless they found a way to put this in Nestle Chocolate Chips, in which case, I will be off crying somewhere. 

Luckily it is DS not me that has celiac, so I'm safe as I stress eat popcorn and gluten free oreos 

[Kanin]

Does it need to be labeled? Could it just be called "enzymes"? I see that on labels...

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Luckily it is DS not me that has celiac, so I'm safe as I stress eat popcorn and gluten free oreos 

Oh yes, I wasn't clear on my post. I am not Celiac either.  But even if I was, I hopefully would be okay stress-eating the cookies.  😃

[cintinative]

4 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Does it need to be labeled? Could it just be called "enzymes"? I see that on labels...

It's not currently required to be labeled. It looks like it is lumped in the category of GRAS: Generally Recognized as Safe but I can't find it in the CFR, except in a section about sausage. 

[Kanin]

7 minutes ago, cintinative said:

It's not currently required to be labeled. It looks like it is lumped in the category of GRAS: Generally Recognized as Safe but I can't find it in the CFR, except in a section about sausage. 

Yuuuuuck!

Also, if someone with celiac does react to it, that's a MAJOR bummer. 

[Danae]

31 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

What the heck is meat glue? 

Have never heard of it but ds is celiac.

It’s an enzyme that causes proteins to stick together.  It occurs naturally in animals and some bacteria. In your body it’s part of what makes your blood clot.  In the food industry it’s used to stick things together.  Chicken nuggets, fish balls, a steak the size of a wagon wheel . . . 

[cintinative]

26 minutes ago, Danae said:

It’s an enzyme that causes proteins to stick together.  It occurs naturally in animals and some bacteria. In your body it’s part of what makes your blood clot.  In the food industry it’s used to stick things together.  Chicken nuggets, fish balls, a steak the size of a wagon wheel . . . 

Do you know how it would be used in a dairy application?

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Do you know how it would be used in a dairy application?

As a thickener I think. 

[Danae]

35 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Do you know how it would be used in a dairy application?

I know it can be used in yogurt instead of gelatin as a thickener.  So I would guess low-fat sour cream and yogurt for sure. I would also wonder about tofu.

 

Edit:  Yep. Tofu and vegan meat-alternatives.  

Edited May 25, 2021 by Danae

[Jean in Newcastle]

Items that are certified gluten free still have to meet the “no less than X parts per million “ test. I personally would still trust anything certified gluten free. But some might be more sensitive. Our ttg tests have always been low with staying certified gluten free..

[cintinative]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Items that are certified gluten free still have to meet the “no less than X parts per million “ test. I personally would still trust anything certified gluten free. But some might be more sensitive. Our ttg tests have always been low with staying certified gluten free..

Maybe I am misunderstanding but this is not saying that these products contain gluten,  but I think it is saying that the microbial transglutaminase can trigger a reaction as if it were gluten?  So the gluten ppm test would not be effective in this case.

[Jean in Newcastle]

36 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding but this is not saying that these products contain gluten,  but I think it is saying that the microbial transglutaminase can trigger a reaction as if it were gluten?  So the gluten ppm test would not be effective in this case.

What kind of reaction?  The kind that you would know if you had it?  Or low grade inflammation that might blunt villi without you knowing it?  

[ktgrok]

36 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding but this is not saying that these products contain gluten,  but I think it is saying that the microbial transglutaminase can trigger a reaction as if it were gluten?  So the gluten ppm test would not be effective in this case.

Right. it isn't gluten, but can cause the same problems. Basically my understanding is that normally our own body produces transglutaminase when we eat gluten, and that transglutaminase is then what can trigger the autoimmune reaction. So if the gluten free food has this enzyme in it you still get a raction.

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What kind of reaction?  The kind that you would know if you had it?  Or low grade inflammation that might blunt villi without you knowing it?  

Probably either. I'd think there would be less than eating straight gluten, but can't really say for sure. 

[SDMomof3]

Wow, thanks for posting this. We have been trying to figure out why dh has reactions to GF foods. 

[cintinative]

22 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What kind of reaction?  The kind that you would know if you had it?  Or low grade inflammation that might blunt villi without you knowing it?  

From the study, but I will admit that more than 80% of it is unintelligible to me:

 

The thing I am not clear on is that I read online about the mTG being associated with wheat, and that in those cases the manufacturer has to report it. So I am not sure what it means that this can be found in GF products. I just don't understand enough of the science. 

[cintinative]

This is an article about mTG and pediatric Celiac. Again, I understand very little of it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2018.00389/full?fbclid=IwAR0yoFsV-jjnbk50w0SJYINWVVHzy21YrJ2qdIJ4P3CZvvIfZrv-B1Wb0M0

Edited May 25, 2021 by cintinative

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

This is an article about mTG and pediatric Celiac. Again, I understand very little of it.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2018.00389/full?fbclid=IwAR0yoFsV-jjnbk50w0SJYINWVVHzy21YrJ2qdIJ4P3CZvvIfZrv-B1Wb0M0

That article seems to be saying mTG may be a cause or trigger for developing celiac disease when ingested with wheat producs, but doesn't say anything about consuming it on its own, without wheat, if you have celiac disease. 

[cintinative]

9 hours ago, ktgrok said:

That article seems to be saying mTG may be a cause or trigger for developing celiac disease when ingested with wheat producs, but doesn't say anything about consuming it on its own, without wheat, if you have celiac disease. 

Right. I am really confused. 

[cintinative]

This was our gastro's response to my question about how worried we should be.

It is an interesting theoretical hypothesis but to date there is not significant clinical data to suggest he needs to worry about it. As is stated in the study mTG is ubiquitous and also likely produced but the normal gut flora.

It will be interesting to follow these studies to see if additional clinical data arises

Please let him know for now, it should not restrict his food choices further and we will continue to follow him clinically and with routine labs including tTG.

[ktgrok]

Just now, cintinative said:

This was our gastro's response to my question about how worried we should be.

It is an interesting theoretical hypothesis but to date there is not significant clinical data to suggest he needs to worry about it. As is stated in the study mTG is ubiquitous and also likely produced but the normal gut flora.

It will be interesting to follow these studies to see if additional clinical data arises

Please let him know for now, it should not restrict his food choices further and we will continue to follow him clinically and with routine labs including tTG.

Good! The more I read and researched, the more this looks like it MIGHT be a trigger for celiac, when combined with gluten, but no evidence it is a problem apart from when combined with gluten. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I want you to know that because of this thread I had some gluten free chicken nuggets.  (Just because it made me think of them and then develop a craving for them.)  Bad for my blood sugars though! 

[cintinative]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I want you to know that because of this thread I had some gluten free chicken nuggets.  (Just because it made me think of them and then develop a craving for them.)  Bad for my blood sugars though! 

 I hope your blood sugars didn't get too high. I totally get having a craving for something.  😃

[cintinative]

19 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Good! The more I read and researched, the more this looks like it MIGHT be a trigger for celiac, when combined with gluten, but no evidence it is a problem apart from when combined with gluten. 

I really am still so confused on this.  I feel like the Celiac.com article and the study might be saying something different, but I can't make it out because I just don't understand the study. I do trust our GI though, so I am so glad also that we don't have to worry for now.  😃

[73349]

Oh dear, I'm sure that stuff is in Beyond Meat products & the like, too. 😕 And probably the yogurt we've been buying--which I can make, but that's a lot more work (mostly to make sure we have milk). I hope it's not in the cheese I like.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Carolina Wren

[cintinative]

28 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

Oh dear, I'm sure that stuff is in Beyond Meat products & the like, too. 😕 And probably the yogurt we've been buying--which I can make, but that's a lot more work (mostly to make sure we have milk). I hope it's not in the cheese I like.

If you read a couple posts up, you will see our pediatric gastroenterologist's response on it. The TL/DR version is that he is not really concerned, yet.