Mostly a vent

[Elizabeth86]

If you are a person that likes to plan things and you are married to someone that just flat out refuses to discuss plans, how do you do it? I'm half venting and half really asking.  I'm just getting so frustrated with dh lately.  I want to discuss things about the future and he just doesn't want to talk about things that haven't happened yet.  He just says we will cross that bridge when we come to it, and I just can't.  

[vonfirmath]

Write?

 

Find someone else to bounce your ideas off of?

[marbel]

I like to talk/speculate about the future, my husband not so much. 

He will talk about concrete things that we may have some measure of control over.  Home/yard improvement, finances to some degree, how life will look when the kids go back to college/move on with their adults lives.  He has no interest in vague topics or conversations that are basically me worrying out loud. 

So, for me, it depends on what I'm talking about and how I present it.  

Have you asked him specifically - "Whenever I try to talk about x, you seem to shut down. Why is that?"

Edited May 26, 2020 by marbel

[Elizabeth86]

Just now, marbel said:

I like to talk/speculate about the future, my husband not so much. 

He will talk about concrete things that we may have some measure of control over.  Home/yard improvement, finances to some degree, how life will look when the kids go back to college/move on with their adults lives.

He has no interest in vague topics or conversations that are basically me worrying out loud. 

So, for me, it depends on what I'm talking about and how I present it.  

Have you asked him specifically - "Whenever I try to talk about x, you seem to shut down. Why is that?"

I like this. " Whenever I try to talk about x, you seem to shut down.  Why is that?" I will try that. 

He has never liked my planning nature and I don't waste my time talking about trivial plans with him,but yes I feel we need to plan some concrete financial things and really sees no need.  I want x to happen before y happens.  He wants y to happen and then we will adjust x.  Just to put it all out there, we are discussing expanding our family or not.  For instance, our car is full, if we have one more baby we won't have room in our car.  I want to buy a different car we fit in before we try to conceive, but he doesn't see why that is necessary to me. He thinks we should be pregnant before we need a bigger vehicle.  See where I'm going? I want to change a few things so we can try for another baby. I can't want to have a baby without things changing first.  He wants to have a baby first then deal with the changes that are needed.

[Elizabeth86]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well......I wouldn't want to buy the car until the baby arrives either.  

Is the issue that he won't discuss it at all.....or is it that he doesn't think all the changes you want are necessary?

He just says he will take care of it when the time comes.  Also, the second concern is I would like to get our house ready to sale and sell it and move before we try for another baby. I always have miserable pregnancies so moving is not a doable thing during pregnancy or soon after.  I feel our house is at capacity and we don't have room for another child, but he disagrees.  I don't want to expand our family I we don't have the room.

[Tap]

3 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I like this. " Whenever I try to talk about x, you seem to shut down.  Why is that?" I will try that. 

He has never liked my planning nature and I don't waste my time talking about trivial plans with him,but yes I feel we need to plan some concrete financial things and really sees no need.  I want x to happen before y happens.  He wants y to happen and then we will adjust x.  Just to put it all out there, we are discussing expanding our family or not.  For instance, our car is full, if we have one more baby we won't have room in our car.  I want to buy a different car we fit in before we try to conceive, but he doesn't see why that is necessary to me. He thinks we should be pregnant before we need a bigger vehicle.  See where I'm going? I want to change a few things so we can try for another baby. I can't want to have a baby without things changing first.  He wants to have a baby first then deal with the changes that are needed.

That is tough. I see both sides. I am not a dreamer at all. I hate planning for the future, because I have more disappointments in my life that I care to talk about. Planning for a hypothetical future, that I know may or may not come true, actively depresses me. Especially something like spending money now, for something that may or may not happen. I wouldn't want to buy a car now (that costs more) that I didn't need, because it would depreciate and the extra space and money would be wasted. A car is easy to buy for me (not stressfull event), so I would wait until I needed one. Besides, if you do conceive and it is multiples, you wouldn't know now to plan for that. 

I can save for an unspecified vacation in a hypothetical future and plan it when I have a substantial balance, but I can't put money away for a 'trip to Mexico' because that may or may not be where the money ends up going.  

An example from my real life was saving for new flooring last year. I had a goal of $10,000 and refused to shop until I had the total amount saved. I hit my goal in March. Good thing I didn't dream too big....$3000 went to a new stove and fridge that died in that time, and the rest is groceries right now while I am off work unpaid with Covid. If I had dreamed and planned, I would be devastated to have my flooring go down the drain.....but instead am only a little bummed, but mostly happy to have money to feed my family. There will still be some money left to start again on the flooring budget when I  go back to work.  

For dh and I, we have separate savings accounts. He can save for what he wants. I save for what I want. Then we do  things accordingly.  If I wanted a different car...I  would pay for it. If he wants a vacation, he pays for it. But he knows to not ask me about planning for a hypothetical vacation, until the money is saved and we are shopping with real numbers in cost and savings. I don't think the way we do things is good for most families, but for us it works. 

BTW...we have substantial retirement accounts, those are different because they  come  off of the paycheck before I see it. Those don't bother me because I don't see it, but I also don't ever dream about when/where retirement will occur. 

[Elizabeth86]

8 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Honestly, these don't sound as much like "doesn't want to discuss it."  These sound more like he just doesn't agree with you.  

 

Right. He doesn't want to be in debt.  I get that.  My current vehicle is 16 years old and has over 200,000 miles so it will need to go soon anyway.  My house is 1,070 sq ft, 3 br, 1 bath.  There are 6 of us now.  One more won't even fit.  If he doesn't want to move I have to be done. The thought of more of us living how we do stresses me out.  I desperately don't want to be done.  I can't live with the uncertainty.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Elizabeth86

[Alice]

1 minute ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Right. He doesn't want to be in debt.  I get that.  My current vehicle is 16 years old and has over 200,000 miles so it will need to go soon anyway.  My house is 1,070 sq ft, 3 br, 1 bath.  There are 6 of us now.  One more won't even fit.  If he doesn't want to move I have to be done. The thought of more of us living how we do stresses me out.  

 

I was going to the say the same thing has happysmileylady but then you answered. Have you all talked about the decision to expand your family outside of things like getting a new car or moving? That could be part of the problem. Does he fundamentally not want to have another child? Maybe putting the other decisions off is his way of saying that he’s happy with your family as is and doesn’t want to have another child. Or it could be that he doesn’t believe in making changes until you need to make them. I think regardless, you need to try and get at the root of the problem rather than focusing on why won’t he decide to move or buy a car. 

[Elizabeth86]

Just now, Dreamergal said:

Gently, this sounds like you are planning for a car for a baby that does not exist yet and may not exist if you do not sell the house. 

Very gently, I am in no way qualified in psychology and even I can tell this is not planning for the future. This sounds like you are anxious for the future. We are all anxious about the future, but this is a hypothetical one and not in which DH is refusing to engaging in planning for the future. If I feel this anxious, I would talk with someone like a counselor . I know it is extremely difficult to find one now. But please consider finding a way to talk to someone. ((hugs)).

Well I am a very anxious person. If another baby isn't in the cards I am fine with that.  If we don't have a baby we are already crowded and would love to move.  Having a bigger car and slightly bigger house and property would benefit my existing family greatly.

[Tap]

Just now, Elizabeth86 said:

Well I am a very anxious person. If another baby isn't in the cards I am fine with that.  If we don't have a baby we are already crowded and would love to move.  Having a bigger car and slightly bigger house and property would benefit my existing family greatly.

Have you tried talking to him about that need vs planning for a new baby? 

[Elizabeth86]

3 minutes ago, Alice said:

 

I was going to the say the same thing has happysmileylady but then you answered. Have you all talked about the decision to expand your family outside of things like getting a new car or moving? That could be part of the problem. Does he fundamentally not want to have another child? Maybe putting the other decisions off is his way of saying that he’s happy with your family as is and doesn’t want to have another child. Or it could be that he doesn’t believe in making changes until you need to make them. I think regardless, you need to try and get at the root of the problem rather than focusing on why won’t he decide to move or buy a car. 

Oh no, he's 100% wanting another. 

[Elizabeth86]

1 minute ago, Tap said:

Have you tried talking to him about that need vs planning for a new baby? 

He just believes in keeping a vehicle and repairing it until it doesn't make sense any more.  I say we are out of space and he said he grew up in a smaller house.

[Tap]

Can you ask him to start saving for a new car, and once you have it saved, then buy it? That way there is no debt to worry about? Then decide on a house at that time? Doing it in specific steps may make it more realistic to him. 

For me, I don't mind saving for a new car, but I don't want to shop and dream about which one until I have it saved. Obviously you need a ball park number, but that is easy enough to get by googling general car values. 

[Elizabeth86]

1 minute ago, Tap said:

Can you ask him to start saving for a new car, and once you have it saved, then buy it? That way there is no debt to worry about? Then decide on a house at that time? Doing it in specific steps may make it more realistic to him. 

For me, I don't mind saving for a new car, but I don't want to shop and dream about which one until I have it saved. Obviously you need a ball park number, but that is easy enough to get by googling general car values. 

Right, see that he won't talk about.  I have offered to try and make a budget and a plan, but he never wants to discuss that.  He just agreed we should.  I don't know how much he is saving or paying on debt.

[Tap]

With the added information, it doesn't sound like he doesn't want to plan for the future, you just both have different views of what that future looks like. Can you afford to buy a new house and car? Do you have a substantial emergency savings? I can see that it would be hard to spend money if he feels like it will create debt that you can't afford.  I hate bills! They are stressful to me.  I will save for an item, before I buy it, even if I can buy it on zero% interest.   

[Elizabeth86]

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

But this existed before the pandemic right ?? These would have been good changes and normal to make in well times, not a pandemic.

Your previous reply where you said "I cannot live with the uncertainty", I get that absolutely. But that is what we are living with now. Day to day uncertainty. So will adding house hunt and possibly selling in a pandemic help or hurt ? We are faced with bad, worse and worst choices now. It sucks. So adding life changes now is too anxiety inducing. So if you want to do something, organize better, throw things out, make you space work better for you, you save for a new car, decide on what you want for a new car,  for a better house location,  you look online in areas you want to move so you have information when you are ready to buy. You have control over that. I would not add stress with moving, house buying and selling unless I have no other choice. 

I think only 20people in my whole county have had covid 19. Not a hard hit area.  I'm also aiming for next year to put the house for sale, so who knows.  Everything has remained stable for us.  

[Tap]

4 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

Right, see that he won't talk about.  I have offered to try and make a budget and a plan, but he never wants to discuss that.  He just agreed we should.  I don't know how much he is saving or paying on debt.

That sounds like a problem on its own. Maybe you can talk to him about a need for you to have an idea of your assets and bills in case anything happens to him. Set a date, and say "on Sunday at 12, I want to see the bills and budget. I want to create a ledger with access codes to accounts so I know where to go in case of emergency."  Start there, and absolutely 100% leave the house and car out of it. Then you will have a better idea of where your family is, in regards to planning for big expenses. 

I don't pay any household bills, but I know where to go to get the information and have the account logins in the safe, in case I need them. I have expenses I pay for, but they are not on payment plans so if I am incapacitated, dh can still carry on (ie I pay for groceries, presents, etc).

[Elizabeth86]

3 minutes ago, Tap said:

With the added information, it doesn't sound like he doesn't want to plan for the future, you just both have different views of what that future looks like. Can you afford to buy a new house and car? Do you have a substantial emergency savings? I can see that it would be hard to spend money if he feels like it will create debt that you can't afford.  I hate bills! They are stressful to me.  I will save for an item, before I buy it, even if I can buy it on zero% interest.   

I'm mostly in the dark about our finances.  He recently got a significant promotion and raise.  I have my eye on a house that would raise our mortgage a couple hundred dollars.  E doesn't like to talk about money and I don't try to ask too much about it.

[fairfarmhand]

17 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

He just believes in keeping a vehicle and repairing it until it doesn't make sense any more.  I say we are out of space and he said he grew up in a smaller house.

But was he homeschooled? I’m assuming since you’re on a homeschooling board that you do. And that makes a huge difference to me. Because we are at home more the space is an issue. If the whole family was only at home together for a fraction of the day, having a small home wouldn’t bug me.

[ktgrok]

22 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

He just believes in keeping a vehicle and repairing it until it doesn't make sense any more.  I say we are out of space and he said he grew up in a smaller house.

Ok, so can you say that you know you CAN live in this house, but you don't WANT to. You are not happy with it, and will be even more unhappy if adding more people to it?

 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I'm mostly in the dark about our finances.  He recently got a significant promotion and raise.  I have my eye on a house that would raise our mortgage a couple hundred dollars.  E doesn't like to talk about money and I don't try to ask too much about it.

Ok, so that's a bigger problem. Y'all need to work on the communication issues before talking about moving, or having more children, etc. Fix the marriage issues first. That, I think, is more what is bugging you than the specifics. 

[catz]

10 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I'm mostly in the dark about our finances.  He recently got a significant promotion and raise.  I have my eye on a house that would raise our mortgage a couple hundred dollars.  E doesn't like to talk about money and I don't try to ask too much about it.

Well to me this makes it sound like you have some pretty serious general communication issues and would benefit from couples counseling.  I don't think he is necessarily being unreasonable.  But if you can't have a back and forth conversation to discuss and understand each other's misgivings, that isn't great.

I do think this current uncertainty in the broader sense is challenging for many in terms of thinking of the future.  I'm personally just focusing on days and weeks at the moment.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree that the first thing to do is ask him point blank if he's willing to start trying for another baby in the near future because that's the main thing that affects the other things for both of you, just in different ways. 

One thing to clarify, are you unhappy with your current living situation now, before you have another baby, or are you content now, but the thought of adding another into the mix makes you unhappy? If the problem is an underlying family dynamic, then having a new baby in a new house won't fix it. If it's just the issues with the house itself, then moving makes sense.

It's important to keep a few things in mind:

1. Fertility declines for every woman as she ages, so you're less likely to conceive and carry a pregnancy to term each year that passes.  It's not outrageous to wait until you're well along in a pregnancy to make expensive baby related purchases like a house and a big vehicle because it just might not happen even if he's willing.

2. The economic crisis we're facing and its anticipated long-term consequences are going to decrease the desire for having any or more children for many people. It is also making people much more wary about major financial decisions.  You need to ask your husband if he's one of those people.

I'm not saying that to discourage you from expanding your family, I'm saying it to address any aspects of reality about family expansion that some people would ignore.

Can you compromise to some degree if he's willing to have another baby? Can you tell him you want to buy a larger vehicle by month 6 in the pregnancy?  Can you wait until the baby is 1 before selling the house and moving?  Can you get him to agree to pay for hired movers that will pack for you while you're pregnant? Something else?

[prairiewindmomma]

This doesn’t sound like a lack of planning problem.

He is controlling the finances and keeping you in the dark about them.

He is controlling whether you can move or not. 6 people in a 1000 ft sq is a tight fit, I understand your concerns about adding a 7th. There are practical aspects like bed placement, everyone having a seat at the table, adequate storage.

He is controlling what vehicle you drive.

He wants to add another baby to a household without resolving a, b, or c.

First y’all need to communicate, and refusing to communicate about shared household resources is a form of control. You don’t have to decide to do a, b, or c now but you should be able to talk about the feasibility of it all.
 

I also would point you towards counseling. 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

18 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I'm mostly in the dark about our finances.  He recently got a significant promotion and raise.  I have my eye on a house that would raise our mortgage a couple hundred dollars.  E doesn't like to talk about money and I don't try to ask too much about it.

It's never a good or wise thing to have one spouse in the dark about finances. Ever.  It's time you saw a professional marriage counselor.

[ktgrok]

28 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Can you compromise to some degree if he's willing to have another baby? Can you tell him you want to buy a larger vehicle by month 6 in the pregnancy?  Can you wait until the baby is 1 before selling the house and moving?  Can you get him to agree to pay for hired movers that will pack for you while you're pregnant? Something else?

These are really good examples of the kind of compromise that might work. But you have to both be open to doing that. You need the assurance it will happen and you aren't stuck forever in a too small house with 18 kids and counting driving a busted up van in 3 shifts because you can't all fit. He doesn't want to count his chickens before they've hatched, so to speak. But there are compromises. 

28 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This doesn’t sound like a lack of planning problem.

He is controlling the finances and keeping you in the dark about them.

He is controlling whether you can move or not. 6 people in a 1000 ft sq is a tight fit, I understand your concerns about adding a 7th. There are practical aspects like bed placement, everyone having a seat at the table, adequate storage.

He is controlling what vehicle you drive.

He wants to add another baby to a household without resolving a, b, or c.

First y’all need to communicate, and refusing to communicate about shared household resources is a form of control. You don’t have to decide to do a, b, or c now but you should be able to talk about the feasibility of it all.
 

I also would point you towards counseling. 

 

 

Yes. I get it, money is HARD for me to talk about. Like, make me want to throw up hard. And I do tend to be "it will all work out" about stuff. But...I was willing to talk about it...to say HOW I would make it work. Like, HOW I would fit a third kid into a tiny bedroom, etc.

[hopeallgoeswell]

I wrote this response out a few hours ago and didn't get to post it, so this may have been said already. 
 

I'm not sure what your kids' ages are, but for us, as full-time homeschoolers, moving from an 1100 sq. ft house to a 2600 sq. ft house before my oldest hit teenage years (and we added more dogs) was a game changer!  We have three kids, three large dogs, and more sanity now. We gave ourselves a Move Date and jumped when the market got more favorable.   
 

For the vehicle situation, we were opposite of you. I always use things until there is no possible way they are salvageable.  Dh said he didn't want the older vehicle to break down with just me and the girls during one of our frequent long road trips. I had to dig that response out, though.  The compromise was I got to pick the vehicle since I was the budget person and the one who would be the primary driver. 

We go on marriage retreats once every few years and there is always a good chunk of time spent on finances.  The best advice I have heard that applies to us is: Usually there is one person who likes to budget and one who doesn't.  Give the budgeting to the one who likes it most with the caveat that the other person must at least look over the budget every month.  Since my husband knows too many people who have died suddenly, we have added to that: the bill information is in a central location and spelled out to a "t" so that if anything should happen to the bill payer, the other one can easily pick it up and carry on.

Best wishes for a healthy discussion and agreeable outcomes!

[Elizabeth86]

1 hour ago, txk said:

Your dh sounds a lot like mine in some of these areas - money, planning, talking about the future, etc.  When I make lists of things I want to get done around the house, I rarely show it to him because he hates it.  Says he is given lists of things to do all day at work, so he doesn't want to have to do them at home, too.  He also doesn't use his computer at home because he says he has to sit in front of screens all day at work and doesn't want to sit in front of more screens at home.  I can see his point.

My dh grew up with parents who were poor when they were growing up.  There wasn't much to plan about or with, as far as I could tell.  And dh's parents seem to have passed their attitudes on to their own kids (dh...).  Dh grew up in a tiny house that they barely kept up.  They never repaired anything until it broke, even cars.  They bought the cheapest stuff they could - clothes, cars, houses, everything - which meant it usually broke or wore out faster.   And that's how my dh did (and does) operate.  I found it extremely frustrating for a long time.  After 40 years of marriage, I just don't care anymore.  I make my plans and do what I want, with or without him.  He's welcome to join in - or not.  Whatever.

I did recently get him to actually sit down and give me passwords to all of the accounts and such.  Whether they're up-to-date, who knows.  But that was a painful process - sitting and waiting for him to 'remember' everything.  Not that I've done anything with them.  But they're there.

In our case, we didn't 'plan' any pregnancies.  They just happened.  And we were both fine with that, as far as I know.  (rolling eyes)  We adjusted as we went along.  And we've lived in small houses with one bathroom and 5 kids.  That really depends on the layout of the house.  It worked fine for us, but I chose that house and really liked it and miss it.  No regrets there.

All this to say that I doubt he's going to do a whole lot of changing.  No idea about counseling.  I went just to learn to deal with him and his (criminal) relatives.  Counselor asked dh to come in and he was so resistant ("Why would anyone PAY just to talk to someone ..."  said in nasty condescending voice.) that she pretty much gave up on him.  I continued for myself only.  It definitely helped ME (and, thus, my kids).

I'd take some time and think about what you can hope to get out of this marriage.  And if you decide it's worth continuing, then YOU make the plans and do what you want, as far as possible.  And when he won't commit to something?  I'd interpret that as a yes.  Because if he didn't say 'NO', then it must be 'Yes'.  But that's me .....  You have to find what works for you, personally.  And good luck.   {{{Hugs}}}  

 

    

 

  

 

Yes, our dh's are long lost brothers. None of our pregnancies were planned either and that was ok.  I had a plan surrounding all of them and none of the plans happened and that was ok and I adjusted well.  I did have a plan though.  

[Elizabeth86]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

These are really good examples of the kind of compromise that might work. But you have to both be open to doing that. You need the assurance it will happen and you aren't stuck forever in a too small house with 18 kids and counting driving a busted up van in 3 shifts because you can't all fit. He doesn't want to count his chickens before they've hatched, so to speak. But there are compromises. 

Yes. I get it, money is HARD for me to talk about. Like, make me want to throw up hard. And I do tend to be "it will all work out" about stuff. But...I was willing to talk about it...to say HOW I would make it work. Like, HOW I would fit a third kid into a tiny bedroom, etc.

Yes you painted the picture of 18 kids in our tiny house, busted van very well.  This is what I don't want.  I want to be able to afford everyone.

[Elizabeth86]

35 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

I wrote this response out a few hours ago and didn't get to post it, so this may have been said already. 
 

I'm not sure what your kids' ages are, but for us, as full-time homeschoolers, moving from an 1100 sq. ft house to a 2600 sq. ft house before my oldest hit teenage years (and we added more dogs) was a game changer!  We have three kids, three large dogs, and more sanity now. We gave ourselves a Move Date and jumped when the market got more favorable.   
 

For the vehicle situation, we were opposite of you. I always use things until there is no possible way they are salvageable.  Dh said he didn't want the older vehicle to break down with just me and the girls during one of our frequent long road trips. I had to dig that response out, though.  The compromise was I got to pick the vehicle since I was the budget person and the one who would be the primary driver. 

We go on marriage retreats once every few years and there is always a good chunk of time spent on finances.  The best advice I have heard that applies to us is: Usually there is one person who likes to budget and one who doesn't.  Give the budgeting to the one who likes it most with the caveat that the other person must at least look over the budget every month.  Since my husband knows too many people who have died suddenly, we have added to that: the bill information is in a central location and spelled out to a "t" so that if anything should happen to the bill payer, the other one can easily pick it up and carry on.

Best wishes for a healthy discussion and agreeable outcomes!

And for the record, I'm not out to get a brand new vehicle.   Just something more than our van holds.  My van has 200,000+ miles and is 16 years old.  We can't even feel safe going on a vacation with it.  

[SereneHome]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I'm mostly in the dark about our finances.  He recently got a significant promotion and raise.  I have my eye on a house that would raise our mortgage a couple hundred dollars.  E doesn't like to talk about money and I don't try to ask too much about it.

Bad bad bad idea. Just bad bad bad idea!!!!

I was going to answer your original question, but now I can't bc it wouldn't make sense in your situation.

But in general, whenever my husband doesn't want to talk about plan A B or C, I make a plan myself and tell him he has no right to complain bc he didn't want to be part of the discussion. But again, that probably won't work in your situation

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, Elizabeth86 said:

And for the record, I'm not out to get a brand new vehicle.   Just something more than our van holds.  My van has 200,000+ miles and is 16 years old.  We can't even feel safe going on a vacation with it.  

Right. I am also driving a similar vehicle.  Knowing that we can safely get around town is really important, right?!!  

I don't think your concerns are unreasonable at all.

Early in our marriage I wanted to have a plan for everything. And I used that word, "Plan".  I realized that a better way of communicating with my spouse was to phrase things as "concerns".

"I'm concerned that I don't understand our full financial picture.  I believe both spouses should have equal access to financial information so that we can better counsel together as to how we save for retirement, plan for future expenses, etc. I also need to be able to step in should something happen to you.

"I'm concerned because it looks like most of our kids are going to need braces.  Braces and wisdom teeth removal run about $7-8k/child. How should we plan to set money aside for that so that we don't have to worry about financing that. Should we set up individual savings accounts for each child? Should we create a lump fund? Should we change to a better dental plan?"

We had to have the van conversation a few years ago. "I'm concerned because our van is 15 years old and is approaching 200,000 miles. I know statistically it's not likely going to last much longer but I also know you feel strongly about avoiding debt.  I don't want want to be stranded on the road with kids in the car and the van has been needing more repairs. What are your thoughts on that? How much do we have set aside for a new vehicle? If you want to buy used, how used are you thinking?"

Like, guide the conversation and don't let him shut it down. 🙂

[HS Mom in NC]

People die early and/or suddenly all the time.  Both spouses should always have access to all financial information and documentation in addition to input about where the money goes. It's just adulting. Part of being a parent (protector and provider)  is making sure everything is in order (physically gathered, organized, and immediately accessible) in case of sudden, unexpected death or severe disability. It's traumatic enough for the surviving family members, but not having the finances in order for a smooth transition to the other parents in addition would make it completely devastating and chaotic.

My SIL died of cancer at 47 after 11 years of fighting it.

My cousin's daughter died in a car accident at 16.

A former pastor's daughter died in a car accident at 14.

When I worked at a church school/daycare center of a few hundred kids for a couple of years 2 children lost their fathers suddenly: one to an unknown heart condition, one to aneurysm.

My daughter's 40 something neurologist died suddenly of a symptomless, undetected heart condition when all 3 of her kids were still in elementary school.

Another former pastor's wife died of bone cancer before she turned 50.

A few years ago my niece's heart stopped while she was at her high school volleyball practice.  It's a miracle she made it because they did CPR for 20 minutes before the medics arrived and she didn't have a pulse when they got there.  She had a symptomless, unknown heart condition. 

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I like this. " Whenever I try to talk about x, you seem to shut down.  Why is that?" I will try that. 

He has never liked my planning nature and I don't waste my time talking about trivial plans with him,but yes I feel we need to plan some concrete financial things and really sees no need.  I want x to happen before y happens.  He wants y to happen and then we will adjust x.  Just to put it all out there, we are discussing expanding our family or not.  For instance, our car is full, if we have one more baby we won't have room in our car.  I want to buy a different car we fit in before we try to conceive, but he doesn't see why that is necessary to me. He thinks we should be pregnant before we need a bigger vehicle.  See where I'm going? I want to change a few things so we can try for another baby. I can't want to have a baby without things changing first.  He wants to have a baby first then deal with the changes that are needed.

FWIW I would not buy the bigger car yet.  I might set the money aside if you’re planning cash but not if you are going to borrow for it.  
 

Partly because underlying all my rationality I’m a bit superstitious.  I didn’t buy much baby stuff till the last 10 weeks of a pregnancy.