When your friend is disproportionately angry

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I agree that if it's a good friend, you could ask her to help lift you up.

I also agree that it's a bad idea to approach this as "I want to fix her."  Take care of yourself, be real, but always treat friends as equals.

I have a friend who always thinks she needs to "fix" people.  Oh my gosh.  She is a true friend, but that is so annoying to everyone she tries it on.  (And she is persistent!)  Yes I know I have room for improvement, but why do you think you're the person to fix me?  You aren't perfect either, by a long shot!  (And any time you go there, a big fight ensues because you are being mean to her when she's just caring for your happiness.)

It’s more that I don’t think people should be dumped if/when they are struggling. I was dumped when I was struggling. I don’t want to be like that. Granted, I don’t think any of her real issues rise to the level of losing a baby or some other tragedy. 

I want to help her, if that’s possible. I do also want to shield myself from a bunch of Negative Nora stuff. But I don’t want to ditch her for good because I don’t like her angry opinions about stuff that ought not matter. 

At present, I don’t see her regularly; I only see her if we make arrangements because we don’t run in the same circles anymore, now I don’t homeschool. So if I pull back the friendship will just evaporate, I am guessing. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

Gently: You are pretty much doing the same thing as she is, but your issue/complaint is about her behaviour.  You can only control your own behaviour. You aren't going to "fix" her. 

I am? What am I doing that’s like that? It’s not like I’m furious about what she opines. I just would rather talk about more interesting and positive stuff. 

But I’m open to correction if I’m behaving badly. 

[wintermom]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

I am? What am I doing that’s like that? It’s not like I’m furious about what she opines. I just would rather talk about more interesting and positive stuff. 

But I’m open to correction if I’m behaving badly. 

It's up to you how much time and energy you want to spend on this issue and this friend, when you could be spending it with your family, your health, or something else. Clearly, your friend enjoys getting angry about non-sense stuff. You recognize this, and yet still spend time listening to her do it. What does that say about you?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

It's up to you how much time and energy you want to spend on this issue and this friend, when you could be spending it with your family, your health, or something else. Clearly, your friend enjoys getting angry about non-sense stuff. You recognize this, and yet still spend time listening to her do it. What does that say about you?

That I’m loyal af? 

[wintermom]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

That I’m loyal af? 

What is an af? I don't know that expression.   What are you being loyal to, exactly? You stated that you wanted to change her behaviour. Shouldn't you simply be happy that she is who she is, if you are a loyal friend?  Why try to change her? You know exactly who she is.  

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, wintermom said:

What is an af? I don't know that expression.   What are you being loyal to, exactly? You stated that you wanted to change her behaviour. Shouldn't you simply be happy that she is who she is, if you are a loyal friend?  Why try to change her? You know exactly who she is.  

It was a joke. Loyal As F*ck. That’s what af means. 

I think it represents that I don’t just slink away from friends if they annoy me, if they are generally unhappy about their lives or the world. There are things, of course, I do like about her. We fangirl on some of the same things together. I just wish she’d chill out on the bitter opinions. 

[Xahm]

I think that those who do this don't really enjoy being like that, so it doesn't fall into the category of "be happy they are who they are." It's more of a destructive habit that you would mind your own business about unless you are close enough to help or it is affecting you. So, if an aquaintence of mine was a smoker and it aggravated my breathing, I could politely ask them not to smoke around me because of my health problem. If a good friend smoked and I knew they were suffering poor health because of it, I would feel out whether they wanted help quitting and if so, I'd offer any moral support, names of dr's, etc that I was equipped to give. A stranger smoking in a legal place, I'd mind my own business. 

I think it's absolutely ok to feel out whether she would like to change this aspect of her behavior, but even if she doesn't, you can say, "I have a lot of stress in my life right now, and this talk just adds to it. Let's focus on lighter things or things we can change. Thanks so much for understanding." 

I've been changed by friends, both for the better and for the worse, so I think it's a good idea to try for the better.

[J-rap]

I'd probably just mumble something like, "Well, I guess it's her life"  or "I guess she should ask YOU next time"  or "Well, that's at the bottom of my list of things to think about right now" ...And then change the subject.  But honestly, if that went on and on, I wouldn't even give her that much of an answer.  I'd probably just say "hm" and then change the subject, or maybe stop hanging out with her so much.

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

It's up to you how much time and energy you want to spend on this issue and this friend, when you could be spending it with your family, your health, or something else. Clearly, your friend enjoys getting angry about non-sense stuff. You recognize this, and yet still spend time listening to her do it. What does that say about you?

That up to this point she has tried a tactful, positive way to encourage a change in the conversation to lighten both of their moods, it didn't work, so she's asking around to see if anyone else who has dealt with this has had success by doing it a different way. It shows he has compassion for a difficult person, wants to make a conscious effort to maintain the relationship, and is asking for advice from people she hopes have had success in this area. She also would like her friend to be happier in general and if she can be a person that helps bring that about  she's willing to make the effort. I only know her from the WTM boards and FB, but I think have a fairly accurate sense of her.

Quill:
compassionate
loyal
humble
gracious
thoughtful
proactive
constructive

My oldest child is like this, I do appreciate the ongoing effort friends and family have made for her. One of her particularly supportive friends from her high school years went to Thailand and became a monk before working for a non-profit in DC.  He's in town for a visit and we're having him over tomorrow. I really look forward to meeting him because of all the things she's said about his listening, feedback, and encouragement. I have to say he's been far more compassionate and constructive than most of the professing Christians in her life have been. Most just cut her off entirely. I'm a Christian and that previous sentence really bothers me.

 I appreciate her husband who lives and deals with it as best he can, even though it's draining. He works at a job he hates to maintain their medical insurance out of compassion for her.  He's looking for another now, so prayers are appreciated, WTM posters. His name is Estevan.I deeply appreciate my son-in-law who is married to my middle child. He is the polar opposite of my oldest and cannot stand being around her, but has often gone out of his way to help her out when he could and he makes time with her so his wife, my middle daughter, can maintain a close relationship with her difficult sister. That doesn't mean I expect them to not set and enforce healthy boundaries, but they are willing to make efforts to tolerate what isn't abuse, develop thick skin, and practice some diversion techniques to help buffer it.  They encourage her for things most people wouldn't really acknowledge because they understand mental illness makes so many regular things that much harder. Right now that this stage of testing, there appears to be at least one, possibly two physical medical issues feeding her feeling bad all the time.

You might not realize just how challenging it is getting a level on this even with someone seeking out help and agreeing to testing,  medication, and therapy.  Her friends and family seem to get it and it says many positive things about them.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm also loyal AF, let's start a club!  I have friends I'm closer to, and friends I'm less close to.  And friends that drive me crazy!!!  All of them, in some way or another, at some time or another, have been very, very good to me.  And unless one of them was intentionally bad towards me, I will continue to be their friend, even when they can be annoying or difficult.  I am also occasionally annoying or difficult.  I hope people show me charity, forgiveness, and loyalty as well.  

Here is what I'd do, because I'm also sarcastic AF:

WHAT???  SHE DYED IT RAINBOW COLORED???  ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!  WHY WOULD YOU TELL ME THIS???  YOU HAVE RUINED MY DAY!!!  NOW I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO WATCH ANOTHER MOVIE SHE IS IN WITHOUT THINKING OF HER STUPID MULTI-COLORED HEAD!!!  

And I'd wail and gnash my teeth.  

 

I think everyone who said she probably has larger problems she is unable or unwilling to confront is right.  But what can you do?  Hang in there.  If she is draining to you, reduce your face time with her, but if she's important enough to maintain friendship with, then don't cut her out completely, especially if this is new behavior.  I

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I am? What am I doing that’s like that? It’s not like I’m furious about what she opines. I just would rather talk about more interesting and positive stuff. 

But I’m open to correction if I’m behaving badly. 

No you are not.  

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

It was a joke. Loyal As F*ck. That’s what af means. 

I think it represents that I don’t just slink away from friends if they annoy me, if they are generally unhappy about their lives or the world. There are things, of course, I do like about her. We fangirl on some of the same things together. I just wish she’d chill out on the bitter opinions. 

Liking her is fine, but trying to change her is going to be obnoxious for both you and her.  🙂  I think all you can do is try to change the vibe from your side.  Maybe go to a concert (no talking) and then gush about all the things you loved about it.  If she starts in about what she hated, just keep talking about what you loved.

And don't carry her negativity as your baggage.  If that is hard for you, maybe plan something that provides a positive rush after your meetings with her.  A hike, a run, a bath, an ice cream, whatever.

[Scarlett]

This thread is making me think again about that 'Let Folks Go' video....There is a line in there something like, 'I never in my life let someone go before telling them what behavior is bothering me first--then if they don't stop....I let them go.'

So I disagree about this idea we can't 'change' people.  Sure we can.  Our example, our words, etc CAN change people.  I mean obviously friend has to be open to constructive criticism and yes friend has to do the actual changing....but asking people to change some bothersome behavior is not out of line.   

Edited January 24, 2020 by Scarlett

[SKL]

Yeah, people can change by request, but it needs to be a relationship both sides are extremely invested in.

Of course time also changes people if you're patient enough.

I dunno, only Quill knows if this is the kind of relationship that is worth the trouble and likely to survive an attempt to change a personality trait.  But I'll say that if my friend starts telling me she wants to make me a better person, I'm not gonna love that.  🙂

[HS Mom in NC]

18 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, people can change by request, but it needs to be a relationship both sides are extremely invested in.

Of course time also changes people if you're patient enough.

I dunno, only Quill knows if this is the kind of relationship that is worth the trouble and likely to survive an attempt to change a personality trait.  But I'll say that if my friend starts telling me she wants to make me a better person, I'm not gonna love that.  🙂

Of course, no one suggested anything of the sort.

  Providing feedback like, "You seem very upset by something that seems to me to be a very minor issue, is it possible your intense feelings are about something else? You know as spouses we sometimes react strongly to our spouse doing something mildly annoying that doesn't usually bother us but when  there's an ongoing major issue left unaddressed all of a sudden that minor irritation is a big deal? Has anything else been bothering you?  If so, maybe there's a way to solve it so you feel better." or "Sometimes this kind of reaction is a sign of depression.  Is it possible you're depressed? There's help for it if that's the case. Too many people are suffering unnecessarily because they don't realize they need or have help.

Not engaging in it by changing the subject is indirect feedback that others are not interested in or upset by the topic.  Reacting with mildness to it directly, such as, "Meh.  I don't really care what other people do with their hair." provides feedback by demonstrating a normal reaction.  Sarcastically mimicking being outraged and hysterical by it can provide the direct humorous feedback of a mirror so the person can see that they're being ridiculous. All of those things are ways to request a change in behavior without saying you want the other person to be a better person.

[Harriet Vane]

3 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I'm also loyal AF, let's start a club!  I have friends I'm closer to, and friends I'm less close to.  And friends that drive me crazy!!!  All of them, in some way or another, at some time or another, have been very, very good to me.  And unless one of them was intentionally bad towards me, I will continue to be their friend, even when they can be annoying or difficult.  I am also occasionally annoying or difficult.  I hope people show me charity, forgiveness, and loyalty as well.  

Here is what I'd do, because I'm also sarcastic AF:

WHAT???  SHE DYED IT RAINBOW COLORED???  ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!  WHY WOULD YOU TELL ME THIS???  YOU HAVE RUINED MY DAY!!!  NOW I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO WATCH ANOTHER MOVIE SHE IS IN WITHOUT THINKING OF HER STUPID MULTI-COLORED HEAD!!!  

And I'd wail and gnash my teeth.  

 

I think everyone who said she probably has larger problems she is unable or unwilling to confront is right.  But what can you do?  Hang in there.  If she is draining to you, reduce your face time with her, but if she's important enough to maintain friendship with, then don't cut her out completely, especially if this is new behavior.  I

This made me think of this hilarious clip:

 

[Pen]

Consider What you have in common and trying to push conversation and activity that / those ways.  

It is also okay to alternate conversation about interests to just one of you, so maybe 10 minutes as she rants about rainbow hair or whatever and 10 minutes as you talk About something that’s dear to you and maybe no interest to her.

[ktgrok]

I can't handle that amount of negativity all the time. I just can't. I wouldn't spend much time with her. 

But if you want to try to change her, a simple, "to each his own" statement, and then bringing up something positive. but in my experience, people like that will just find something else to rant about. 

[Pen]

 

5 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

WHAT???  SHE DYED IT RAINBOW COLORED???  ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!  WHY WOULD YOU TELL ME THIS???  YOU HAVE RUINED MY DAY!!!  NOW I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO WATCH ANOTHER MOVIE SHE IS IN WITHOUT THINKING OF HER STUPID MULTI-COLORED HEAD!!!  

And I'd wail and gnash my teeth.  

 

Might be worth a try—could maybe even be fun and a way to let off steam of one’s own!!!

 

[KungFuPanda]

11 hours ago, Quill said:

It was a joke. Loyal As F*ck. That’s what af means. 

I think it represents that I don’t just slink away from friends if they annoy me, if they are generally unhappy about their lives or the world. There are things, of course, I do like about her. We fangirl on some of the same things together. I just wish she’d chill out on the bitter opinions. 

If it's loyalty, and she's really worth it in your life, you might just have to let her have her weird thing and be friends with Eeyore as long as she let's you have your weird thing without giving you too hard a time about it.

If you have a whole collection of friends who can't read your discomfort well enough to moderate their behavior you may need to evaluate any doormat tendencies you may have and learn to edit the pool of people in your life down to those who leave you feeling valued.

[Shoeless]

Has your friend always been this way? Or is it a recent development? 

You can try not responding to the negativity and changing the subject, with the hope that you eventually train her out of the behavior.

Sue: "Did you see that Prince Charles got a nose ring?! The world is going to hell in a handbasket, I tell you!"

You: "Want some cake? It's chocolate!"

Basically, you keep changing the topic to make ranting at you as unsatisfying as possible. 

If she's stuck in a negativity rut, you might have to call her out on it. I got stuck in a bad one after a traumatic experience, and spent months ranting at my poor sister, until she finally said "Enough! You are stressing me out! I can't hear this anymore!"  I felt really embarrassed and retreated from the relationship for a few weeks, but she and I are fine now.  As embarrassing as it was to have my baby sister tell me to stfu, I appreciate she was willing to take that chance and not just avoid talking to me. 😯

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by MissLemon

[Guest]

7 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

If it's loyalty, and she's really worth it in your life, you might just have to let her have her weird thing and be friends with Eeyore as long as she let's you have your weird thing without giving you too hard a time about it.

If you have a whole collection of friends who can't read your discomfort well enough to moderate their behavior you may need to evaluate any doormat tendencies you may have and learn to edit the pool of people in your life down to those who leave you feeling valued.

Yeah, my general view is: different friends serve different purposes. I hate for it to sound so utilitarian but, IME, not every friend can be, say, the one you call when your life just went to hell and you need that non-judgemental, available, loving person to be a rock for you. One friend can be your Country Music Fan friend who is always up for a concert. One can be your Also Reads John Grisham friend who loves to discuss books. One might be your Picks Out Terrific Outfits friend who is good to go shopping with. 

Thankfully, I do have a couple friends who can be the true Know My Heart friends. The friend I’m speaking of is not one of them. But, I think, as long as I know that, it’s okay. I do think she would be happier, though, if she could make like Elsa and let it go. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Has your friend always been this way? Or is it a recent development? 

You can try not responding to the negativity and changing the subject, with the hope that you eventually train her out of the behavior.

Sue: "Did you see that Prince Charles got a nose ring?! The world is going to hell in a handbasket, I tell you!"

You: "Want some cake? It's chocolate!"

Basically, you keep changing the topic to make ranting at you as unsatisfying as possible. 

If she's stuck in a negativity rut, you might have to call her out on it. I got stuck in a bad one after a traumatic experience, and spent months ranting at my poor sister, until she finally said "Enough! You are stressing me out! I can't hear this anymore!"  I felt really embarrassed and retreated from the relationship for a few weeks, but she and I are fine now.  As embarrassing as it was to have my baby sister tell me to stfu, I appreciate she was willing to take that chance and not just avoid talking to me. 😯

 

 

She has always been one with strong opinions. It seems worst to me at the moment. I do think suggestions of depression are pretty likely. 

I remember when I was in my late teens, I briefly dated this guy. For whatever dumb reason, I kept unloading on him about people I worked with who did irritating things. In retrospect, I can see he was so tired of it. 😏 He kept saying, “I would just kill it with kindness.” We stopped seeing each other after a few months. He didn’t really make me see what I was doing at the time. But I did realize it later upon reflection. 

Small, unimportant side tangent: at the time, I had a perm in my hair and it was long and curly. I’ll never forget his crestfallen look when he once told a friend I had, “gorgeous, naturally curly hair” and I corrected him, “My hair is not naturally curly. It's a perm.” He looked like a kid who just lost his ballon. 😄

[Shoeless]

18 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah, my general view is: different friends serve different purposes. I hate for it to sound so utilitarian but, IME, not every friend can be, say, the one you call when your life just went to hell and you need that non-judgemental, available, loving person to be a rock for you. One friend can be your Country Music Fan friend who is always up for a concert. One can be your Also Reads John Grisham friend who loves to discuss books. One might be your Picks Out Terrific Outfits friend who is good to go shopping with. 

Thankfully, I do have a couple friends who can be the true Know My Heart friends. The friend I’m speaking of is not one of them. But, I think, as long as I know that, it’s okay. I do think she would be happier, though, if she could make like Elsa and let it go. 

 

There is so much wisdom in this. ❤️ 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:29 PM, Harriet Vane said:

This made me think of this hilarious clip:

 

 

I love Amy!!!  

[sassenach]

Loyal AF should be on a t-shirt. I would totally buy it.

Quill, I don't have a clue. I have people in my life like this, and it quite literally repels me. I can only take this type of negativity in the tiniest doses and if it's in any sort of social situation where I can quietly slip away from the person, I do. 

The most distinctly negative and ranty person in my world is my friend's husband. She is an angel, but being around him is incredibly hard. For years we were in a small group together and I often tried to redirect him using a lot of the strategies other people have posted. Nothing ever worked. After awhile (years), I would just excuse myself any time he got going. If there was someone else in the conversation, I would quietly slip away. If there wasn't, I would have to go "check on the kids" mid rant. We haven't been in the same group for years, but at church, I say hi to him, but I never stop to engage. 

It's actually a very sad situation. I think he's really lonely. People (my husband, his pastor) have specifically confronted his anger and tried to help him understand how it effects his relationships, but then he just gets angry at them. It's hard to watch.

[Pen]

On 1/23/2020 at 7:19 PM, HeighHo said:

I have an in-law that does this.  It is just an attention-getter, and like a magician, the person is trying to distract your attention from something going on in their life that is not working out.  They don't want you to know about it or help them figure it out, so don't bother asking.

  Remember if you reward negative behavior with attention, they'll keep it up. 

What I do is say, ' do you know what country you are in? ' (the response also tells me if they are 'off' their meds, and if they are I call the relative who is watching over that part and they get things straightened out before an ambulance is needed) and if they name the correct one, I remind that people in this one have the right to pursue happiness, express themselves, whatever.  That shuts down the rants and most time there is nothing else they want to bring up, so I ask a few non threatening questions and ring off. Really, just too much time on their hands.

 

If the actual rant is about something like rainbow hair, I think the bolted might be useful.  

It also could be repeated as a response to an escalation to how bad things are “nowadays” etc— that freedom of self expression in ways that don’t hurt others is a fundamental right in USA.

Additionally, I guess you @Quillcould shrug it off and internally remind yourself that your friend ranting is her own rainbow color hair, her own form of self expression that apparently makes *her* feel happy—and just ignore it like you do the rainbow hair, or bolts in ears or some hobby you don’t share, or whatever.  

Maybe if you could do a reframe in your own mind that would be amusing rather than taking in her  negativity it could help.  

 

 

[Pen]

18 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Loyal AF should be on a t-shirt. I would totally buy it.

Quill, I don't have a clue. I have people in my life like this, and it quite literally repels me. I can only take this type of negativity in the tiniest doses and if it's in any sort of social situation where I can quietly slip away from the person, I do. 

The most distinctly negative and ranty person in my world is my friend's husband. She is an angel, but being around him is incredibly hard. For years we were in a small group together and I often tried to redirect him using a lot of the strategies other people have posted. Nothing ever worked. After awhile (years), I would just excuse myself any time he got going. If there was someone else in the conversation, I would quietly slip away. If there wasn't, I would have to go "check on the kids" mid rant. We haven't been in the same group for years, but at church, I say hi to him, but I never stop to engage. 

It's actually a very sad situation. I think he's really lonely. People (my husband, his pastor) have specifically confronted his anger and tried to help him understand how it effects his relationships, but then he just gets angry at them. It's hard to watch.

 

This description reminds me of someone I knew who turned out to have elevated lead levels.  When that got figured out and fixed he improved a lot. 

[sassenach]

21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

This description reminds me of someone I knew who turned out to have elevated lead levels.  When that got figured out and fixed he improved a lot. 

Interesting. He is an electrician, but from what I've gathered, he's always been like this. I think he is very likely on the spectrum, which I hesitate to say because I have tons of people in my life who are on the spectrum, including my dear brother, and they do not struggle with anger in the way this man does. But when I survey all of this man's struggles, they very much line up with spectrum struggles.

[ktgrok]

That kind of negativity can be catching, and tends to be part of a family culture or culture of a group of friends. Because it is catching, I avoid it. 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

Interesting. He is an electrician, but from what I've gathered, he's always been like this. I think he is very likely on the spectrum, which I hesitate to say because I have tons of people in my life who are on the spectrum, including my dear brother, and they do not struggle with anger in the way this man does. But when I survey all of this man's struggles, they very much line up with spectrum struggles.

 

I mentioned just because it’s a possibility that people might not think of.  

And a spectrum child might have even been more likely to have done something that could increase lead, like having had a sucking on a toy stim and maybe the toy was one of many that have had too much lead (or other heavy metals).  Additionally there might be impaired detox metabolic pathways . 

[HSmomof2]

I haven’t read all the responses, but if she’s a close friend, I would gently call her out on it and ask if there’s any way I could help her. I’ve spent about the last 6 months doing this inadvertently.....there have been a lot of stressors and things in my life that felt out of my control. A few weeks ago, my teen daughter brought it to my attention (with all the tactfulness of a 15 year old😂).  At first I was mad and defensive, but after thinking about it, I realized she was absolutely right. I don’t want to behave that way. I’ve been really trying to stop this and refocus on dealing with the stressors and issues that were leading to this behavior. So, while I didn’t take it well when it was brought to my attention, I am thankful that she did.