Need advice on how to respond

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Yes, be prepared for this. Been there, done that with my father on Christmas Eve several years ago.  It was a sucker punch. 

 

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Given what’s been shared so far it seems likely to be the case.  Or if parents are together that all will be left to the mother (who will ultimately leave it to sister). 

Or even very likely all money etc left to sister, but hard parts like power of attorney work and being executor left to @MEmama — because,   hey, MEmama is available—not traveling world and has husband and so on, so she should shoulder responsibility... 

 

ETA- and being away from home in another place can make it harder to say no, or to get personal legal advice as to potential big decisions .  Even if wanting to make visit, I think I’d want to separate the Will etc aspects. Ask for information about plans while at home with time to be able to look into it. 

IF you are left "the contents of the storage building" or some other crappy thing, you are free to decline. If you don't want to be executor or named POA, you are fully entitled to turn it down. 

Phrases like "Sorry, that's not going to work for me, You'll need to make other arrangements." and "My life won't allow me to do that. Thank you for considering me, but I my responsibilities will conflict with taking care of that." are your friends. You don't owe anyone an explanation. Just keep it vague and firm. Remember the dippy steamroller? That's what you're going for if someone wants to twist your arm about taking on stuff that you don't want to/can't do.

[plansrme]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

 

Thankfully we cut it short, returning to a dark house and DS sitting alone in a dark living room not knowing what to do with himself. No one at all had said a word to him, or even stayed in the same room. It was AWFUL. 
 

Why do I put up with it? For the same reasons most people do. As it is, I rarely see them, have limited contact, and have learned to expect no emotional support. She’s made sure there is little actual relationship and I’ve long ago accepted that as best as I can. But I’m not going to throw up my hands and declare them dead to me. Mostly I can roll my eyes and feel sorry for her that she threw us away as it were, but this text just really affected me. I know I shouldn’t let it, but of course it’s not that simple. It feels really cruel. 

She did this to your son, and you are surprised that she's being cruel.  Did you ever watch What Not to Wear?  The hosts occasionally advised women to dress the body they have, not the body they want.  Same goes for families:  you get to deal with the family you have, not the family you want.  I'm sorry for your mother, and I'm sorry for mine; my kids  are amazing people who would love to love her.  But their love is a privilege, not a right, and she has not earned the privilege.

[MEmama]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

Does your father acknowledge your son’s birthdays, send him something for Christmas, etc.?

No. He is generous with money and stuff, but pretty emotionally disconnected. 

3 hours ago, alisoncooks said:

Honestly, I'd ignore the text if it were my mother with a history of behaving that way. If she wants to see your family, she can do the work and make the effort. I wouldn't make any invitations or suggestions or have any hopes -- that just opens yourself to being shut down and hurt again. If she wants a relationship, she'll reach out. 

I think you’re right. No matter how I respond the fallout will be painful for me.

3 hours ago, Pen said:

Out of curiosity, how does your sister manage to “only travel” with no job or anything? 

Idk. I’m not allowed to ask. Trust, I’m not allowed to make any inquiries about anyone in the family. If I ask about sister, they think I’m judging. If I ask about moms health, she treats me like I’m 4. If I ask about their plans during fire evacuations, I’m overreacting. I honestly cannot win. She shuts down real conversation with me at every opportunity.

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Your son probably already gets it. I've found that my kids are much less emotionally invested in weird family relationships. They already know that "Granny's just like that." and don't expect anything different. So don't expect him to be hurt. In fact, my presenting as "You may be hurt over this" tends to increase the likelihood of emotional angst. I wouldnt' say anything to mom. She already doesn't care. Telling her anything will only stir up drama.

Go see your dad and do the elder care/will stuff. Seems like you don't expect anything, you're just fulfilling your sense of duty. I'm sure every now and then the hurt pops up, even if you think you've accepted or dealt with it. That is normal and healthy. Just work through those feelings as they come and remind yourself that your mom is not capable of having healthy relationships. Think of the trip to see your family as a business transaction and stop with the "shoulds" and "if onlys" Because those shoulds and if onlys are only going to lead to hurt. 

(By the way, if you can't go out there without the hope of a relationship, without the "if only" attitude, don't go. Remember...a business transaction. That's it,)

I REALLY like the idea of treating our visit like a business transaction. Although, I tried that last time and it did not go over well (I’m serious when I say everything I do is wrong). I actually got lectured like a preteen. “Why can’t I be more like my sister??!!”  It was utterly humiliating. 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry.  I was estranged from my own mother and we have similar issues as you do with my in-laws.  It's hard and there are no right answers (other than to protect kids from being hurt, which we weren't able to always avoid).  Big hugs to you.  

[Carol in Cal.]

8 minutes ago, MEmama said:

No. He is generous with money and stuff, but pretty emotionally disconnected. 

I think you’re right. No matter how I respond the fallout will be painful for me.

Idk. I’m not allowed to ask. Trust, I’m not allowed to make any inquiries about anyone in the family. If I ask about sister, they think I’m judging. If I ask about moms health, she treats me like I’m 4. If I ask about their plans during fire evacuations, I’m overreacting. I honestly cannot win. She shuts down real conversation with me at every opportunity.

I REALLY like the idea of treating our visit like a business transaction. Although, I tried that last time and it did not go over well (I’m serious when I say everything I do is wrong). I actually got lectured like a preteen. “Why can’t I be more like my sister??!!”  It was utterly humiliating. 

OK, but see, nothing is going to go over well.

We are trying to help you come up with things that will satisfy you and leave you as self-nourished as possible.  We cannot come up with anything that will go over well, because the premise of the family disease is that you are bad, even though you’re not, so nothing will ever go over well.  I know it is very hard, but you do need to let go of any expectation like that.  I am so sorry.  This is not right, not any part of it, but it’s the reality here.

[MEmama]

9 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

OK, but see, nothing is going to go over well.

We are trying to help you come up with things that will satisfy you and leave you as self-nourished as possible.  We cannot come up with anything that will go over well, because the premise of the family disease is that you are bad, even though you’re not, so nothing will ever go over well.  I know it is very hard, but you do need to let go of any expectation like that.  I am so sorry.  This is not right, not any part of it, but it’s the reality here.

Right. There’s no “solution” as far as the trip out to visit goes. I’ll keep all the support and kindness from here in my heart, though. 🙂

I'm leaning toward simply not responding to her text. I could say, “Oh, that’s too bad you didn’t come out a day earlier to spend time with us and celebrate DS's birthday“ but she’ll just make excuses about not wanting to bother us, or how we live soooooo far away it just wouldn’t have been possible (never mind we are in Boston all the time, which she knows) or that she was just too busy to think of it. Hurtful, all of it. So maybe silence is best. She certainly feels no obligation to ever responding to my texts, so it’s likely she won’t notice the silence. I don’t feel great about it (I'm a communicator), but ignoring it will probably create the least fallout. 

[Carol in Cal.]

7 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Right. There’s no “solution” as far as the trip out to visit goes. I’ll keep all the support and kindness from here in my heart, though. 🙂

I'm leaning toward simply not responding to her text. I could say, “Oh, that’s too bad you didn’t come out a day earlier to spend time with us and celebrate DS's birthday“ but she’ll just make excuses about not wanting to bother us, or how we live soooooo far away it just wouldn’t have been possible (never mind we are in Boston all the time, which she knows) or that she was just too busy to think of it. Hurtful, all of it. So maybe silence is best. She certainly feels no obligation to ever responding to my texts, so it’s likely she won’t notice the silence. I don’t feel great about it (I'm a communicator), but ignoring it will probably create the least fallout. 

OK, very gently, 

 

You’ll know you’re really past this when you’re not deciding these things based on what will create the least fallout.

Hugs to you.

 

[Farrar]

I would definitely ignore the text.

I see why you feel you need to go out there... if it helps you to take your dh and ds, then do. But I personally wouldn't. I would go, get it done and come home. And then I would not plan more trips.

I don't think you need to have a big declaration. "I'm leaving the family!" "You're all dead to me!" Um, no. But I would just dial it back even from what you're currently doing. You send them updates. You're willing to travel to see them. You ask about their health and if they have to evacuate from the fires and things like that. You get self-centered texts from your mother. I would just quietly try to cut down on all of that across the board.

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I would definitely ignore the text.

I see why you feel you need to go out there... if it helps you to take your dh and ds, then do. But I personally wouldn't. I would go, get it done and come home. And then I would not plan more trips.

I don't think you need to have a big declaration. "I'm leaving the family!" "You're all dead to me!" Um, no. But I would just dial it back even from what you're currently doing. You send them updates. You're willing to travel to see them. You ask about their health and if they have to evacuate from the fires and things like that. You get self-centered texts from your mother. I would just quietly try to cut down on all of that across the board.

Yeah. I think this is best. Not that you "cut them out" of your life. Just dial it way back. They're messed up. It's not you. It's them and you know it. 

I would not take my family to see them. I would figure out the shortest possible time to be there. (find out the exact day they want to meet, come in that morning, leave the next day. Rent a car and stay in a hotel. It's a business transaction.) Rehearse your responses. If someone goes on a rant, simply get up and leave. Yes, it will cause drama. Ignore it. For awhile, we dealt with this kind of a person and I;'d hand my phone to my dh and say, Read through this and tell me if it's anything I need to know. If it's not, just delete the texts for me. He was glad to do that. 

[Carol in Cal.]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I would definitely ignore the text.

I see why you feel you need to go out there... if it helps you to take your dh and ds, then do. But I personally wouldn't. I would go, get it done and come home. And then I would not plan more trips.

I don't think you need to have a big declaration. "I'm leaving the family!" "You're all dead to me!" Um, no. But I would just dial it back even from what you're currently doing. You send them updates. You're willing to travel to see them. You ask about their health and if they have to evacuate from the fires and things like that. You get self-centered texts from your mother. I would just quietly try to cut down on all of that across the board.

I think this is excellent advice, and I would hone it a bit regarding asking about things.

I would change that to ‘express hope that their health is good’ instead of asking about it.  You don’t want to put a minute of tension onto yourself by waiting for a response.

”I sure hope you’re feeling well!”  “Let me know if you need any help!”  “I hope the fires are not too close!  Let me know if you want me to help you move!”  “DS had a broken arm but it’s healing nicely.  Hope you are well.”  “It’s very cold here; I’ll bet you’re glad to be in CA where it is milder.  Hope you have a better fire season this year and plenty of rain.”

[HS Mom in NC]

7 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

 

I would not take my family to see them. I would figure out the shortest possible time to be there. (find out the exact day they want to meet, come in that morning, leave the next day. Rent a car and stay in a hotel. It's a business transaction.) Rehearse your responses. If someone goes on a rant, simply get up and leave. Yes, it will cause drama. Ignore it. For awhile, we dealt with this kind of a person and I;'d hand my phone to my dh and say, Read through this and tell me if it's anything I need to know. If it's not, just delete the texts for me. He was glad to do that. 

 

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I think this is excellent advice, and I would hone it a bit regarding asking about things.

I would change that to ‘express hope that their health is good’ instead of asking about it.  You don’t want to put a minute of tension onto yourself by waiting for a response.

”I sure hope you’re feeling well!”  “Let me know if you need any help!”  “I hope the fires are not too close!  Let me know if you want me to help you move!”  “DS had a broken arm but it’s healing nicely.  Hope you are well.”  “It’s very cold here; I’ll bet you’re glad to be in CA where it is milder.  Hope you have a better fire season this year and plenty of rain.”

These are pure gold.

[MEmama]

8 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I think this is excellent advice, and I would hone it a bit regarding asking about things.

I would change that to ‘express hope that their health is good’ instead of asking about it.  You don’t want to put a minute of tension onto yourself by waiting for a response.

”I sure hope you’re feeling well!”  “Let me know if you need any help!”  “I hope the fires are not too close!  Let me know if you want me to help you move!”  “DS had a broken arm but it’s healing nicely.  Hope you are well.”  “It’s very cold here; I’ll bet you’re glad to be in CA where it is milder.  Hope you have a better fire season this year and plenty of rain.”

I like this. I’ll have to rehearse... 🙂

[mmasc]

32 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I would definitely ignore the text.

I see why you feel you need to go out there... if it helps you to take your dh and ds, then do. But I personally wouldn't. I would go, get it done and come home. And then I would not plan more trips.

I don't think you need to have a big declaration. "I'm leaving the family!" "You're all dead to me!" Um, no. But I would just dial it back even from what you're currently doing. You send them updates. You're willing to travel to see them. You ask about their health and if they have to evacuate from the fires and things like that. You get self-centered texts from your mother. I would just quietly try to cut down on all of that across the board.

I agree 100% with this. 
 

I’m sorry that your extended family is missing out on the opportunity to know your family. Their loss. 

[fairfarmhand]

By th way, keep in mind that the reason you’re going (if I’m reading you correctly) is so you can with a clean conscience know that you did your duty. So if they don’t respond to that you can leave cheerfully having fulfilled that goal. 

 

dont forget that goal in hopes that some kind of hallmark moment will come. Sadly that’s generally just a movie thing. 

[MEmama]

17 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

By th way, keep in mind that the reason you’re going (if I’m reading you correctly) is so you can with a clean conscience know that you did your duty. So if they don’t respond to that you can leave cheerfully having fulfilled that goal. 

 

dont forget that goal in hopes that some kind of hallmark moment will come. Sadly that’s generally just a movie thing. 

I’ll keep that in mind! Thanks.
 

There will never be a hallmark moment. That ship never even left the dock. 

Now, it would be nice to have a normal, healthy adult relationship with them, but it simply won’t happen. There are many discussions I probably should have brought up 20+ years ago, but for me it feels too late now. They might rub salt in my wounds, but there’s no reason for me to point out their deficiencies to them at this point. All it would do is add to the pain. I can’t imagine doing that.

[Pen]

 

4 hours ago, parent said:

What's the mother going to outright say "we didn't want to see you and did not invite you."  No, it doesn't matter since they aren't going.

 

Unfortunately that, or worse, could easily be said.  

The mother apparently isn’t a normal nice mother, so expectations about what a normal mother would/ would not say can not be relied upon.  

 

[rebcoola]

I would respond with ok.  I would do the absolute bare minimum to deal with will stuff.  Do not take your son and DH. I get guilt and duty but it sounds like you are still trying to please or at least appease them.  Nothing you do ever will.  Scale way back and become the gray rock only respond only when necessary with the least amount of info/emotion possible.

[TravelingChris]

The only way I would take dh and ds to CA was if you were doing a vacation without your birth family and the will issue would be something handled for one day by you while dh and ds were off doing something else. 

I completely agree with others that your son knows how little his grandmother cares for him. 

[annandatje]

Since you wish to respond in spite of not feeling emotionally safe, how about something like, "Oh, how wonderful all of you will be in Boston.  That is only a couple hours from me.  Would you like to get together in ________ (Boston or Maine) on _______ (date)?  If that does not work for you, we are open to other times and places."

I would not tell your son if and until times and dates have been confirmed.

It is kind of you to reach out to them, and I sincerely hope that they recognize your effort.

[Pen]

4 hours ago, MEmama said:

Right. There’s no “solution” as far as the trip out to visit goes. I’ll keep all the support and kindness from here in my heart, though. 🙂

I'm leaning toward simply not responding to her text. I could say, “Oh, that’s too bad you didn’t come out a day earlier to spend time with us and celebrate DS's birthday“ but she’ll just make excuses about not wanting to bother us, or how we live soooooo far away it just wouldn’t have been possible (never mind we are in Boston all the time, which she knows) or that she was just too busy to think of it. Hurtful, all of it. So maybe silence is best. She certainly feels no obligation to ever responding to my texts, so it’s likely she won’t notice the silence. I don’t feel great about it (I'm a communicator), but ignoring it will probably create the least fallout. 

 

I think no response is much the better of these two options.  

To me the other feels a little bit ...  not sure right words, but fanning flames of argument.  I’m not even sure it’s true—do you really want her (as she actually is, rather than the mom you wish she were but isn’t) to join you? 

Maybe better would be to suggest to her and your father that a birthday call to D’s would be nice (if it would be)—which they may or may not respond well to.

I hope he has better grandparent relations on his dad side.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Pen